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Not true. You would be extremely hard pressed to find a computer game in a store that isn't translated into German, and I would assume that the same holds true for France.

Really? Well, it doesn't surprise me, the 'dubbing industry' (is that even a term?) is a lot more advanced in places like France and Germany.

Young 'uns over here simply are not exposed to English outside of school at all. Everything is translated or dubbed because the market is big enough, so pupils have virtually no practice in English. I suppose the situation in the Netherlands is very different (and Dutch is very closely related to English, let's not forget that), but in Germany and Austria, many people never develop the skills necessary to comprehend the background or rules of a game like Warhammer in English. If they do, it's usually at a later age than GW's preferred target audience. It's deplorable, but a fact that won't change in the foreseeable future.

It's not so much the languages being related thing, Dutch is closer to German than it is to English. However, in the past they just didn't dub stuff on tv, everything was subtitled, which was great because that's how I learned English. I notice that cartoons nowadays are dubbed in Dutch though. I can understand there's a market demand for it, but I've got a feeling that those growing up on these dubbed cartoons will end up having a harder time learning English than we did.

But the problem is less that players here wouldn't know what Sternguard meant or how to pronounce it correctly and more that it seems GW is ever so slowly phasing out support for foreign languages.

But if they keep all the names in English but just translate the books there shouldn't be a problem right?

 A Town Called Malus wrote:
But that would be a rearguard. Does any military force actually call it a sternguard? If not then how can they be veterans of fighting in an action that doesn't exist? They should be rearguard veterans, as they are veterans of fighting in rearguard actions.

Which military force calls its wizards in power armor Librarians? Which military calls its teleporting super space knights Terminators? We're talking about fictional unit names for plastic toy soldiers here.

"Stern" refers to the aft-most portion of a ship. However, it also means harsh and unrelenting. It also has an alliterative relationship with other words like "steel" (and "steely"), "stark," "stone," and "storm." It pairs well with vanguard and calls to mind veterans who do not take ground but hold it, refusing to yield. That's pretty evocative. It's certainly more evocative than "rearguard" which, in the early 21st century, calls to mind phrases like, "In the rear with the gear," "Leading from the rear," and "REMF." And it's way more evocative and flavorful than the French translation on the box, which is more or less "Squad of Supporting Veterans."

This is great news! Only well educated grown ups will play Warhammer in Germany, while all other countries will still have to deal with filthy pleb kids.

 Malika2 wrote:

Not true. You would be extremely hard pressed to find a computer game in a store that isn't translated into German, and I would assume that the same holds true for France.

Really? Well, it doesn't surprise me, the 'dubbing industry' (is that even a term?) is a lot more advanced in places like France and Germany.

Okay, so you were indeed serious about this, didn't expect that.
Dubbing industry in USA may be smaller, because customers in USA don't accept even dubbed European movies, they have to be completely redone with American actors (e.g. Nikita, Nightwatch, Stieg Larsson trilogy etc.)

Imagine the uproar on Dakka, if Infinity decided to do all future unit names in Spanish only
Thank God they are not that arrogant to their international customers.

Yes, PC games in English are special order here in Germany and not readily available in stores.

 JB wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

 JB wrote:
Good point! The text took up very little space on the box and certainly did not detract from the imagery.

It could be they thought the translations of "Sternguard" in several other languages were stupid as well.

What? You mean stupider than the English name? Next we will have Crossguard or Dourguard. I don't see this as a valid reason. And it only takes a day or two to get a decent translation for new units. For all of the old units, no new work was required.

Sternguard is describing a rearguard, not the emotion. Vanguard are at the front, Sternguard are at the back.

 Malika2 wrote:
But if they keep all the names in English but just translate the books there shouldn't be a problem right?

Right. But that doesn't seem to be the case when I look at the growing list of publications that are simply not translated at all.

 Malika2 wrote:

Not true. You would be extremely hard pressed to find a computer game in a store that isn't translated into German, and I would assume that the same holds true for France.

Really? Well, it doesn't surprise me, the 'dubbing industry' (is that even a term?) is a lot more advanced in places like France and Germany.

Young 'uns over here simply are not exposed to English outside of school at all. Everything is translated or dubbed because the market is big enough, so pupils have virtually no practice in English. I suppose the situation in the Netherlands is very different (and Dutch is very closely related to English, let's not forget that), but in Germany and Austria, many people never develop the skills necessary to comprehend the background or rules of a game like Warhammer in English. If they do, it's usually at a later age than GW's preferred target audience. It's deplorable, but a fact that won't change in the foreseeable future.

It's not so much the languages being related thing, Dutch is closer to German than it is to English. However, in the past they just didn't dub stuff on tv, everything was subtitled, which was great because that's how I learned English. I notice that cartoons nowadays are dubbed in Dutch though. I can understand there's a market demand for it, but I've got a feeling that those growing up on these dubbed cartoons will end up having a harder time learning English than we did.

But the problem is less that players here wouldn't know what Sternguard meant or how to pronounce it correctly and more that it seems GW is ever so slowly phasing out support for foreign languages.

But if they keep all the names in English but just translate the books there shouldn't be a problem right?

I spent a year with the Dutch Marines (Cloggies as they are affectionately known in the corps) and I swear, I don't think I met a single Dutch bloke (or bird, I spent plenty of time chasing the female sailors!) who didn't speak excellent English. It was the same when I was doing my Arctic cadre in Norway, or training with our other closely allied chums in Denmark, Finland, Sweden..

feth knows why, maybe the bigger countries (UK, Germany, France) are arrogant so we always think everyone else should just speak our language?

Although, considering the British had the biggest empire of the three and spawned the whole Anglosphere, and as a result, I doubt as many Dutch or Scandies speak French and German as often as they do English, I suggest they swallow their pride and speak English as well as their neighbors.

Then... there will only be one, pig-ignorant, mono-lingual bunch of arrogant arseholes in Europe that everyone hates.. and it shall be us, the British.

Huzzah!

 BrookM wrote:
I rather like the new box designs, they look cleaner and sleeker, like some sort of luxury product, plus I'm pretty sure it is still printed in different languages on the side of the box.

The plus point of the new design is that it will stand out really well on shelves next to "Character Building" army models and things like that. Thus reducing confusion between GW kits and other companies'.

 Kilkrazy wrote:

 BrookM wrote:
I rather like the new box designs, they look cleaner and sleeker, like some sort of luxury product, plus I'm pretty sure it is still printed in different languages on the side of the box.

The plus point of the new design is that it will stand out really well on shelves next to "Character Building" army models and things like that. Thus reducing confusion between GW kits and other companies'.

Exactly.

Though I'd be lying if I didn't admit that I am somewhat missing the old boxed sets with the painted artwork by all the artists we love and hate.

Eldarain wrote:I thought this thread was going to be about the White Scars character being renamed James Caan. I am disappoint.

That's awesome. Though it might be an improvement on the inherited 50s-80s practice that dominates 40k of making sci-fi caricatures of various real world cultures.

As for the packaging, it is kind of weird to have a mismatch between what the units are called in the codex and what's on the box.

 mattyrm wrote:
feth knows why, maybe the bigger countries (UK, Germany, France) are arrogant so we always think everyone else should just speak our language?

Although, considering the British had the biggest empire of the three and spawned the whole Anglosphere, and as a result, I doubt as many Dutch or Scandies speak French and German as often as they do English, I suggest they swallow their pride and speak English as well as their neighbors.

Let's for a moment assume that you are serious.
1.) It is enonomic sound to sell products in a language that is understood in a market. English is not commonly understood in Germany (or France), esp. not among the teen target customers. So it is sound to add German language to the box titles. Nobody is demanding ONLY German titles.
2.) Some languages like Dutch or Swedish have a so small number of people speaking it, that foreign media (movies, books) usually decide to not produce translations/dubbings for them. This results in foreign language movies and books being ubiquitous in these contries and people being forced from early on to watch subtitled English language movies. That's why a larger proportion of them understands English.

This negative discrimination of almost all non-English customers is an uncalled for new hurdle for sales in those countries. It is another step in GW's anti-marketing campaign to artificially lower sales.

So much fuss over nothing.

I predict GW slowly starting to avoid translating new unit names to other languages - but keep translating the rules and codices.

Same trend as "Spiderman" now is being called "Spiderman" in Germany and Sweden - and not "Spinnenmann" and "Spindelmannen".
Get over it.

Although I personally prefer using the older, localized, names I do appreciate the adaption - as when everybody is using the same names for the same stuff it makes it way easier to find information and discuss on forums - even when the names are quite strange in the first place (i.e. as with miniatures from Mierce).

IMHO:
It is way past time for Germany and France to wake up. Their countries are slowly becoming irrelevant and their languages are already almost unimportant. Tough.
Also, even though England and the US within 10 years will be poor 3rd world countries their language is here to stay. Simplified English will be the new world language.

 Kroothawk wrote:

2.) Some languages like Dutch or Swedish have a so small number of people speaking it, that foreign media (movies, books) usually decide to not produce translations/dubbings for them.

And because translating stuff to Swedish makes it sound incredilby silly. Not that that's always a bad thing.

 kendoka wrote:
It is way past time for Germany and France to wake up. Their countries are slowly becoming irrelevant and their languages are already almost unimportant. Tough.

So you are firmly in the camp of what I called:
"Want to play 40k? Learn English, dude" ?

Allod wrote:
Well, looking at this year's print (and digital) releases for 40k, the writing was on the wall for quite some time.

I can only imagine that this latest development is part of their ongoing campaign to "protect their IP", and someone thought this was easier if they only have to deal with a single designation per product.

This was my first thought as well. Not to offend the German (or any other) market, but to protect their IP's names. So this way they can sue "Spots the Sternguard" even of "Spots the Expugnatorgarde" isn't possible due to German laws. Along with being worried that Scibor will release a set of "Expugnator Guard".

the UK and USA will be poor 3rd world countries in 10 years?

Who knows why GW has done this - though I suspect they'll let us know eventually.

 kendoka wrote:
So much fuss over nothing.

IMHO:
It is way past time for Germany and France to wake up. Their countries are slowly becoming irrelevant and their languages are already almost unimportant. Tough.
Also, even though England and the US within 10 years will be poor 3rd world countries their language is here to stay. Simplified English will be the new world language.

To the new world order and to the pure english race! (sarcasm)

It's not about we all talking the same language, it's simply pointing out some flaws in the marketing strategy, why would Games-workshop website offer multi-language support and call "Protektorgarde-Trupp der Space Marines" on their website when on the box it's written "Space Marine Sternguard Veteran Squad ". Just go on their website, on the bottom and select the language you want and see by yourself. The translating job have already been done on the website, why not simply adding it on the box like it was before. I hope the image on the website is just a generic picture and on the real box we can at least find the proper name that match the proper name on the website. At least it will be easier for "foreigner" teenager to find themself in the hobby. Why would they advertise in their language in the website and codex, if thoses boxes will be written in another language.

IMHO:
This thread is clearly on the edge of "English language" nazi to me, hearing the famous " Wanna play 40k, play it in english and only in english, because english is pure". This make me sick a little bit, but well I can't ask a closed mind to open it to other culture. They choose their ignorance.

Allod wrote:

 JB wrote:

Yes, I agree with both of your points. Legal requirements alone will likely ensure the latter.

As far as safety disclaimers and product description go, sure, that's mandatory for products sold in the EU.
As far as the actual names go, though, there's no such requirement. Except for France (and Quebec?), which is probably why you still see the French unit name on the box.

Makes me think that a lot of new units may be going for less generic names and more specific ones in future - particularly with all the bastardised Latin in 40k. They can also use these single names in more markets. By this I mean fewer "Tyranid Tyrant Guard" and more "Tyranid Carnifex"


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

"Stern" as in your rear, not "stern" as in strict. Contrast to the Vanguard Veterans, who are in the vanguard...

But that would be a rearguard. Does any military force actually call it a sternguard? If not then how can they be veterans of fighting in an action that doesn't exist? They should be rearguard veterans, as they are veterans of fighting in rearguard actions.

Stern being a nautical term. Like Marines is also a nautical term. It makes sense.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:
Sturm der Vegultung sounds so much cooler than Dark Vengeance. It even translates into a cooler phrase, 'Storm of Vengeance'. They shoulda called the English boxset that

It's already been used. I have it, as will many of the other vets.


http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/89485/warhammer-40000-storm-of-vengeance

I mentioned the Storm of Vengeance pack earlier but google it and I believe there is a link to the GW page that has a pdf version.

 Kroothawk wrote:

 Malika2 wrote:

Not true. You would be extremely hard pressed to find a computer game in a store that isn't translated into German, and I would assume that the same holds true for France.

Really? Well, it doesn't surprise me, the 'dubbing industry' (is that even a term?) is a lot more advanced in places like France and Germany.

Okay, so you were indeed serious about this, didn't expect that.
Dubbing industry in USA may be smaller, because customers in USA don't accept even dubbed European movies, they have to be completely redone with American actors (e.g. Nikita, Nightwatch, Stieg Larsson trilogy etc.)

Imagine the uproar on Dakka, if Infinity decided to do all future unit names in Spanish only
Thank God they are not that arrogant to their international customers.

Yes, PC games in English are special order here in Germany and not readily available in stores.

I noticed you haven't really read my whole post and simply take one tiny aspect and pull it out of its context.

As I've already mentioned, I think it's good that GW translates their publications, rules and such, but is it really necessary to translate the names as well? I noticed that Kendoka has already explained it quite well with his Spiderman example.

Military terms just sound so much cooler in German. I shall miss that.

 Malika2 wrote:


I noticed you haven't really read my whole post and simply take one tiny aspect and pull it out of its context.

As I've already mentioned, I think it's good that GW translates their publications, rules and such, but is it really necessary to translate the names as well? I noticed that Kendoka has already explained it quite well with his Spiderman example.

Would you interested in playing "Keisarillinen Kaarti"-army, with exciting unit choices like "Miehistonkuljetusvaunu", "Jalkavakirykmentti" or "Kaukopartio". Their standard weaponry is called "kivaari" and in close combat they use dangerous weapon called "Puukko".
Or would you scratch your head as the words don't mean you anything. (assuming you don't speak finnish)

the saying "making mountains out of molehills" is tailormade for this thread.

Lutharr101 wrote:
the saying "making mountains out of molehills" is tailormade for this thread.

Shhh...it's all very interesting and has kept me entertained all day long.

Christ. This is just nitpicking GW and having a go at them for the sake at having a go at them. People like complaining about GW so much it would seem that they take the smallest possible excuse to do so. Lutharr sums it up nicely in his post above mine.

I have qualms with GW as much as the next man, but this is silly. It is an odd change, and a pain for many foreign speaking countries, I admit, but I'm sure foreign people are smart enough to put zwei and zwei together. I'm not sure it's worth another hate-fest thread.

 adhuin wrote:

 Malika2 wrote:


I noticed you haven't really read my whole post and simply take one tiny aspect and pull it out of its context.

As I've already mentioned, I think it's good that GW translates their publications, rules and such, but is it really necessary to translate the names as well? I noticed that Kendoka has already explained it quite well with his Spiderman example.

Would you interested in playing "Keisarillinen Kaarti"-army, with exciting unit choices like "Miehistonkuljetusvaunu", "Jalkavakirykmentti" or "Kaukopartio". Their standard weaponry is called "kivaari" and in close combat they use dangerous weapon called "Puukko".
Or would you scratch your head as the words don't mean you anything. (assuming you don't speak finnish)

So do you guys call Spiderman 'hämähäkki mies'?

 Malika2 wrote:

So do you guys call Spiderman 'hämähäkki mies'?

Comics & Characters name is Hämähäkkimies in Finland, the movie titles go by dual titles of "Spider-Man – Hämähäkkimies".
Real names like Peter Parker is/was still Peter Parker, most of the hero names were translated, with few exceptions.

EDIT: Looks like the comics nowadays have Dual titles of "Spider-man - Hämähäkkimies" as well.

 Azazelx wrote:


Stern being a nautical term. Like Marines is also a nautical term. It makes sense.

But even a Navy will not perform a Sternguard action. Google Sternguard and the only thing which comes up is 40K. So that doesn't work.

Panties in a wad over nothing. A relatively solid release from GW this week, but something needs to be cried over I guess. Are the codex of the various armies in English only, or the regional website, or the BRB? No? Then you don't need to "learn English dude z" to play.

I mean really, when I got into GW, the cover artwork for the warhammer edition that had High Elf vs Gobbos was so awesome to my young mind that it could have been written in Sanskrit and I still would have blown my lawn mowing money on it. I'm sure its the similiar for all of us.

But a non-english speaker is going to see a box with something that stokes his imagination and see that it has an Anglicized name and walk on? Sure. Maybe after seeing the price, but not because its presented in the globally dominant language thats taught in pretty much every industrialized country now.

Anecdotal but still relevant : Did two years in Germany in the early 2000s and played more games of WHFB against people that knew rudimentary English then ones that didn't. And I know for fact alot of frauleins speak English enough for bar chitchat.

 kendoka wrote:

It is way past time for Germany and France to wake up. Their countries are slowly becoming irrelevant and their languages are already almost unimportant. Tough.
Also, even though England and the US within 10 years will be poor 3rd world countries their language is here to stay. Simplified English will be the new world language.

Errrr... Germany is anything but becoming irrelevant. Also, Chinese or Spanish/Portuguese is likely to be the world language with the rise of China and South American economies.