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 Father Gabe wrote:
So besides all of this back and forth on rudeness, has anyone thought to include other companies that do not include foreign languages on the boxes?

Why is it just about GW? PRIVATEER PRESS doesn't include foreign languages on the front of boxes, nor does Soda Pop Miniatures. I am sure there are other companies...just checked Infinity...same thing. So what is the big deal that it is in English? My initial reaction to the first 3 pages is that this a renewed attack on GW...yet again. I guess since it is a new month it is necessary to start GW bashing. Is it just taboo to talk bad about Warmachine and Hordes like people do with GW?

I see all too often the complaints against GW can be made about many miniature companies. Perhaps that is what is needed is a Privateer Press bashing thread, complaining about the following: A few bad models, odd rules, one sided tournament play, prices (yep prices) and a new one I just learned...no foreign languages on the box!!

Ive got a Psyc paper coming up, maybe I should look into this as a possible topic.

I was going to make that point, but figured it would be considered "threadcrapping" by some because it originated from me. Thanks for making a very applicable point.

 Father Gabe wrote:
So besides all of this back and forth on rudeness, has anyone thought to include other companies that do not include foreign languages on the boxes?

Why is it just about GW? PRIVATEER PRESS doesn't include foreign languages on the front of boxes, nor does Soda Pop Miniatures. I am sure there are other companies...just checked Infinity...same thing. So what is the big deal that it is in English? My initial reaction to the first 3 pages is that this a renewed attack on GW...yet again. I guess since it is a new month it is necessary to start GW bashing. Is it just taboo to talk bad about Warmachine and Hordes like people do with GW?

I see all too often the complaints against GW can be made about many miniature companies. Perhaps that is what is needed is a Privateer Press bashing thread, complaining about the following: A few bad models, odd rules, one sided tournament play, prices (yep prices) and a new one I just learned...no foreign languages on the box!!

Ive got a Psyc paper coming up, maybe I should look into this as a possible topic.

Did any of those three ever offer foreign language names on their product boxes? If not then it's apples to oranges. This isn't about GW not having it when they didn't have it to begin with, it's about them removing it when they already have the translations and so no real reason to do so.

Have we confirmed that the translations are not on the back?

Have we confirmed that there is not a different printed box for non-English speaking countries? Can someone from another country (Germany/France) take a picture of an actual box sold in their country to confirm?

Finally, once again, what difference does it make if an English speaking company decides to remove foreign language off the front of the box? The image speaks for it. The image shows what is in the box, in relation to what is on the website, in relation to what is in the codex/army book.

This thread is a GW bashing one. The originator should have done full research, like what has been discussed in the thread, before posting it. Very irresponsible on his part. If you are going to report on something like this, provide all the information, instead of creating a hate-bashing thread that takes a life of its own. Disappointed in Kroothawk, I expected better out of him.

 Father Gabe wrote:
So besides all of this back and forth on rudeness, has anyone thought to include other companies that do not include foreign languages on the boxes?

Why is it just about GW? PRIVATEER PRESS doesn't include foreign languages on the front of boxes, nor does Soda Pop Miniatures. I am sure there are other companies...just checked Infinity...same thing. So what is the big deal that it is in English? My initial reaction to the first 3 pages is that this a renewed attack on GW...yet again. I guess since it is a new month it is necessary to start GW bashing. Is it just taboo to talk bad about Warmachine and Hordes like people do with GW?

I see all too often the complaints against GW can be made about many miniature companies. Perhaps that is what is needed is a Privateer Press bashing thread, complaining about the following: A few bad models, odd rules, one sided tournament play, prices (yep prices) and a new one I just learned...no foreign languages on the box!!

Ive got a Psyc paper coming up, maybe I should look into this as a possible topic.

Privateer Press does'nt allowed a "multi-language" site, nor any others. They assume they are english and that's the point. They don't pretend to hide behind a "multi-nationalism" market. If you clearly look at Privateer Press, they are in process for translating books in Spanish, which is a great idea. It take alot of ressources to start building a multi-language game. It's still far from being able to select your language on the site. Privateer Press and GW are not comparable. Yes they are miniature games, but the comparasion stop there. Compare an Orange with another Orange.

The point is why GW have a multi-language site base on nationality, if at the end all boxes will be printed in english. They have an international market, they aim for it. The thing is why when I go on a GW site, I have to select "Canada" (or Poland, or Russia etc.) They already did the job, it was like that before on all boxes. It is pointed it out on GW, because they place themself as the "top quality" miniature producer all around the world.

I am not in the "Protect my language" clan nor I am in the "Play it in english" group. I simply point a contradiction on the attempt of GW to hit the international market with english (and only english) product. They pretend themself playing in the major league, they need to simply act for it.

Agreed now on the Privateer Press. However, looking at several of the foreign language sites on GW s page shows language based codexes, descriptions and names for each product (in that native language) with associated models and box art.

Are people complaining because they think non-English speaking/reading players cannot (or do not) look at the GW site (native language) see the model/box art with description and not figure out what they are trying to buy? Give non-English speaking/reading people a little credit with their ability to comprehend what they read online, in the codex and associate with box art.

I too am not in the "Protect my language" clan, etc. My point is mainly, it shouldn't matter if it is removed from the cover of the box, because it is on the back! I just checked my newest box (space marine bike squadron) and my newest blister (space marine lord executioner captain which has it on the front). So what if it is not on the front? Guess what? The instructions are in a variety of languages...so it doesn't matter if it is not on the front of the gosh darn box.

I should also point out it is on the front of the bike squadron box as well. Additionally, tomorrow I will go by my local GW store, ask my the manager if I can take a picture of the back of the newer boxes (since the time of the new bike squadron box), and post it here tomorrow to show if the newer box does or does not include foreign languages.

i don't see the big deal, but i don't see see the reason for GW to remove something that they already had...
i will dearly miss the Italian translation...
please don't take away my Lascannoni...

honestly, ever since i was 5 or 6 six years old, i have always given people pictures of the products i want as gifts...
remember pouring over photos in the Sears catalogue, and giving the page to your mom, with all the right G.I. Joe figures circled so she didn't accidentaly buy you a second Snake Eyes instead of a Beachhead???
it's even easier now...
i just send an email with the direct link to the product's page...
now they have a pic on their phone to show the guy at the store...

as a guy who has spent his whole life travelling the world, and learning the local language, i have to say that, in my experience, the first words to make the crossover into other languages are product and brand names...
here in Mexico, Spanglish is big, but it's mostly proper names...
they don't call Facebook "Libro de la Cara", they call it bloody Facebook...
they rarely throw English words in that are not brand names, or product names...
even in American English we say Kleenex instead of tissue, most of the time, Band-Aid instead of plaster, and Q-tip instead of cotton wool on a stick...

now, the rulebook issue is a real drag, and seems like a much bigger deal...
one thing i will admit, no matter how easy i find it to learn the local language wherever i live, i can't really read any of them...
conversation is easy, but reading is so much harder, as there is no context, or visual clues, to help you understand and learn...
languages are much easier for me to learn by experience than rules, and no sounds to mimic...

finally, i admire anyone who has learned English...
it is one mixed up crazy language, with the most acceptions to the rules of any language i've experienced...

cheers
jah

The most extensive catalog of the world’s languages, generally taken to be as authoritative as any, is that of Ethnologue (published by SIL International), whose detailed classified list as of 2009 included 6,909 distinct languages.

That being said....see pics...

Pray tell, where can that 99$ wraithknight be bought?

We already knew the Eldar boxes had multiple languages and when was the Space Marine bike squad moved to that packaging?

After Eldar came out

So before September, which is apparently when this language change thing is happening.

 cincydooley wrote:

I was going to make that point, but figured it would be considered "threadcrapping" by some because it originated from me. Thanks for making a very applicable point.

No, it's a solid point regardless of who makes it.

Privateer hasn't done what it should have to break into markets that don't have English as their first language. They've actually been crappy at even supporting the other widely spoken languages in the US like Spanish. I don't know what independant stores in Quebec have done to comply with French language laws on Privateer's products. Maybe they put a sticker on them or something, or just hope no one notices.

I wonder if there is a blog on a chinese website where some bored chinese gamer started a thread complaining of the injustices that chinese & mandarin are written on the boxes and not all races and/or languages are represented on his new box of minis....

Or maybe, just maybe, he is focused on the actual game itself, and putting his minis together....

 krazynadechukr wrote:
I wonder if there is a blog on a chinese website where some bored chinese gamer started a thread complaining of the injustices that chinese & mandarin are written on the boxes and not all races and/or languages are represented on his new box of minis....

Or maybe, just maybe, he is focused on the actual game itself, and putting his minis together....

all 6,909 of them???
that would be some busy box art...
we would at least learn how to say Space Marine in Swahili...

cheers
jah

I'm not sure if this point has already been made, but the Japanese names are straight phonetic transcriptions of the English names - even when there are perfectly equivalent terms in Japanese. This is standard practice in Japan though. If English spelling wasn't so idiosyncratic, with so many mystifying exceptions, then putting it into the Japanese phonetic script (known as katakana) would be redundant (since any Japanese person who's been through even basic education is familiar with the Roman alphabet).

-C6

 cincydooley wrote:

I was going to make that point, but figured it would be considered "threadcrapping" by some because it originated from me. Thanks for making a very applicable point.

Nice martyr act, friend. Want any help with those nails?

Kanluwen wrote:

 Kroothawk wrote:

BrookM wrote:Aye, there is no profit to be had in a box for every country or demograph.

But there is guaranteed less profit, if 80% of the German, Spanish, Chinese and Japanese customers can't read the content of the boxes and blisters anymore.

So 80% of German, Spanish, Chinese, and Japanese customers can't read English?

I call shenanigans on this statement.

I wouldn't. If I stood outside one of my local GW stores and asked random people passing by whether they understand a random paragraph out of an English BRB, one out of five would be a pretty good quota.

 Father Gabe wrote:
This thread is a GW bashing one.

This was a thread about GW removing already existing foreign-language product names from their box covers while at the same time not translating many rule sources for the first time in ca. 20 years.

It only became a "bashing" thread when some people chose to ignore the news bit and avoid the accompanying discussion with insightful remarks like "Who cares?" and "What does it matter?" in order to start another haters vs white knights joust.

Father Gabe wrote:The originator should have done full research, like what has been discussed in the thread, before posting it. Very irresponsible on his part. If you are going to report on something like this, provide all the information, instead of creating a hate-bashing thread that takes a life of its own. Disappointed in Kroothawk, I expected better out of him.

An official GW statement was enough for me. Disappointing, right?

krazynadechukr wrote: The most extensive catalog of the world’s languages, generally taken to be as authoritative as any, is that of Ethnologue (published by SIL International), whose detailed classified list as of 2009 included 6,909 distinct languages.

That being said....see pics...

That do not look like September releases to me, correct?
So if the change starts with September, what do pics of June releases prove?

People have been getting a bit indignant that GW is closing the door on foreign customers (which is probably true), but they just might not have the resources to translate the game into several foreign-language markets and provide the necessary support.

Believe me, they can afford it, but if people are dumb enough to switch language and they can save money by this, their controllers decided that one can also get rid of the other translated stuff for the future.

Again, thwe following is facts:

> All German dealers got informed that the change will take place.

> Sub-codizes beginning with the Eldar codex and the flyer-book are no longer translated into German.

> The mini-rulebook will not be available in German

Each of them seen fo itself might not be so alarming, but together they clearly show where the boat is headed.

Also, quite some can read English, but in their free-time they want to relax and use their native tongue.

The german-language market note only does include Belgium, Luxemburg, Germany, Switzerland and Austria but also quite some of the nordic and eastern states cause they know they will never get a version in their language and so use the German they learned at school
so we are talking about a market with over 120+ million people... rather stupid to not include such a market.

I can confirm now that German stores get all new release boxes without German/Italian/Spanish/Chinese/Japanese names on ANY side of the box.
The boxes and blisters only feature English and French (the latter is mandatory for sales in Canada).

On the other hand one side is reserved for warning about small parts in 25 languages. Also in 5 languages: Contains x miniatures etc, Copyright claim in English and French.

Seems I didn't make this up or misread the official statement to stockists.
Any comments, Father Gabe?

How unexpected. Totally not like several people predicted on page 1 or so.

But who cares - parents can always resort to buying boxes that might or might not be the right thing and then compare the box art with pics on the internet at home. Am I doing this right?

My father is pretty fluent in English (he lives in Canada), and still manages to get the wrong boxes.
Also, parents coming to GW stores alone usually ask the store clerk for opinion, and we all know that they are definitely going to end up with the most expensive, least sold box that might or might not be of the army the offspring actually owns, including WHFB armies for 40k players and vice versa.

I can't believe this is still going on. All this complaining on Dakka isn't going to fix this, you have to go to the source, and bitch at them for dropping the language. I'm sure GW didn't do it just to piss off everyone, they had a reason, be it costs or something else.

Kroothawk, if what you say is true about its mandatory for French because of some Canada law, contact your Government, and see if you can't get a law in place requiring German on everything sold in Germany. I'm sure if you ask on Dakka, or at local stores, someone knows a lawyer and they can explain how to go about getting it done.

@ Jidmah:

Seriously though, if there's no dedicated gaming store nearby (which is the usual case for most of Austria), you have to buy from a toy store where you're lucky if the clerk even remembers that they carry something called "Warhammer" and where the shelf is.

JB wrote:
For those who may not remember, GW's usual practice is to print the titles in six different languages on every kit. That covers most of the world that has both a lot of disposable income and a lot of disposable time, though it was still a slap in the face of many of the European countries that have large numbers of gamers (Poland and Russia come to mind).

A slap in the face? It's not like they can translate it into every language out there. The box would be a huge jumble of text, when what they're trying to sell is the giant picture on the front of the little plastic dudes inside.

The product is made by an English Speaking company. There are segments of the American market that buys toys from Japan, and the Japanese don't bother two write everything on the box in even two languages, let alone six. A slap in the face to those American kids buying them! No. Not providing translated rulebooks seems odd. But complaining that the boxes don't have translations is rather weird. It isn't like there's some kind of deception about what you're looking for and what is in the box.

It's interesting if GW is in fact stopping the localizations of their rules, since it might influence their accessibility among the grade-schooler demographic they're otherwise trying pretty hard to recruit. The 40k rulebooks aren't the simplest texts for a 2nd or 3rd grader to read in a foreign language, after all. On the other hand, translation is an expensive business

It's not THAT expensive.

If I take the latest Codex Chaos Space Marines as an example:

The bestiary pages with the highest text-to-picture ratio have about 640 words. Let's say every page had that much text and multiply it by 105 pages - that's 67,200 words in total. Even if they went to a translation agency (which is more expensive than having someone to do it in-house) and paid a very high rate of € 0.15 per word, that's € 10,080.- for the whole job. Hardly bank breaking I'd say.

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:
The box would be a huge jumble of text, when what they're trying to sell is the giant picture on the front of the little plastic dudes inside

Erm ... no:


Counterquestion:
Imagine that Kellogs would change its box design to this. Would this increase sales in USA?

 Kroothawk wrote:

 eteran Sergeant wrote:
The box would be a huge jumble of text, when what they're trying to sell is the giant picture on the front of the little plastic dudes inside

Erm ... no:


Counterquestion:
Imagine that Kellogs would change its box design to this. Would this increase sales in USA?

Give it 25 years, and that WILL be what we see on shelves HERE in the USA....


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 Kroothawk wrote:

Father Gabe wrote:The originator should have done full research, like what has been discussed in the thread, before posting it. Very irresponsible on his part. If you are going to report on something like this, provide all the information, instead of creating a hate-bashing thread that takes a life of its own. Disappointed in Kroothawk, I expected better out of him.

An official GW statement was enough for me. Disappointing, right?

krazynadechukr wrote: The most extensive catalog of the world’s languages, generally taken to be as authoritative as any, is that of Ethnologue (published by SIL International), whose detailed classified list as of 2009 included 6,909 distinct languages.

That being said....see pics...

That do not look like September releases to me, correct?
So if the change starts with September, what do pics of June releases prove?

Since you quoted me, I will try to stress my sarcastic viewpoint of this thread altogether. It is a hypocrisy of sorts for people to cry injustice to a handful of languages being absent when there are thousands of other languages in the world. What about justice for all? This is a hobby, and if you are so offended by the business practicality and practices of the company handeling the hobby, leave it. Stand your ground and stand on your priciples, practice what you preach sorta thing. Imagine eating McDonalds fries, and the whole time complaining "...these are so bad for you, they should do something to stop this travesty..." This topic is as silly as that....


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Complaining of missing languages as your opening your shiny new box of marines.....


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Geeesh