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A friend of mine working on Eternal Crusade (sorry... Warhammer forty-thousand's Eternal Crusade) says that they confirmed they are getting rid of Finecast, sooner rather than later.

I find it funny that it only took them, what, 4 years to realize they had a dud on their hands.

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
A friend of mine working on Eternal Crusade (sorry... Warhammer forty-thousand's Eternal Crusade) says that they confirmed they are getting rid of Finecast, sooner rather than later.

I find it funny that it only took them, what, 4 years to realize they had a dud on their hands.

I hate to break it to you but your friend didn't get inside information.

Anyone with a cursory knowledge of the most recent releases could tell you that was likely the case. Now, if your friend had an exact timeline? Might be a different story.

Finecast hasn't been going for 4 years has it? Time flies...

 Medium of Death wrote:
Finecast hasn't been going for 4 years has it? Time flies...

Closer to three and a half, what I remember, but still. Time does fly.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
A friend of mine working on Eternal Crusade (sorry... Warhammer forty-thousand's Eternal Crusade) says that they confirmed they are getting rid of Finecast, sooner rather than later.

I find it funny that it only took them, what, 4 years to realize they had a dud on their hands.

I hate to break it to you but your friend didn't get inside information.

Anyone with a cursory knowledge of the most recent releases could tell you that was likely the case. Now, if your friend had an exact timeline? Might be a different story.

I never pretended to super secret inside knowledge, but I prefer his sources which are from deeper inside GWHQ than, say, redshirts. I was keeping an open mind since I got a Finecast model (one, and only one, I admit) and it was bubble-free and only had a slight bend on a weapon. It was still a possibility that they had worked out the kinks and would at least keep carrying the medium for a longer period of time, if at least to amortize the cost.

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
A friend of mine working on Eternal Crusade (sorry... Warhammer forty-thousand's Eternal Crusade) says that they confirmed they are getting rid of Finecast, sooner rather than later.

I find it funny that it only took them, what, 4 years to realize they had a dud on their hands.

It was always intended as a stopgap measure, and there's been increasingly smaller amounts of it with each release.

The abhumans have no place, fluffwise or not. They are mutants, after all. Something the Imperium hates.

 HisDivineShadow wrote:
The abhumans have no place, fluffwise or not. They are mutants, after all. Something the Imperium hates.

You mean like Navigators?

 Palindrome wrote:

 HisDivineShadow wrote:
The abhumans have no place, fluffwise or not. They are mutants, after all. Something the Imperium hates.

You mean like Navigators?

Suffer not the mutant to live unless they're of some use to the Imperium

Is pretty much the long and short of it. All a bit hypocritical, but the. That's the Imperium to a tee.

 Tannhauser42 wrote:
Interesting that GW would do that, given their most recent trading terms with store require the GW brand to be plastered all over the packaging to prove that it is an authentic GW product.

Yeah, but special ordered product doesn't go on the shelf. Might simply be a cost-cutting thing.

Though, technically even special ordered stuff has advertising potential.

Why does everyone want Ogryns and Ratlings out of the codex? They're a very interesting part of the Imperial Guard and show not only how much humanity has changed since our time but also shows how much any deviation from the norm is looked down upon in Imperial society.

Throwing them out would be a big loss, even if the models remain kind of crap.

Honestly, I would be happy if ratlings became a troop choice at the same price (because those guys would be hard to shoot off an objective if you were smart about it) and Ogryn really just need a way to assault out of a transport (perhaps they treat all vehicles as assault vehicles) Those two changes alone would make them useable in my eyes for the kind of games I'd be interested in.

Obviously that's nowhere near enough to make them viable for tourney play, but I've always been of the school of thought that 40k Tournaments were kind of a joke to begin with.

Oh yeah, and penal legion needs to be able to take more than 10 FRIGGIN MODELS IN A UNIT. Don't show me a pic of hundreds of them charging across the field when all you're going to give me is a crappy 10 man skirmisher unit!

/rant

I'd be bummed about an IGuard Codex that cuts out ratlings and Ogryns.

In fact, I'd love to see a Squat squad added in.

 Palindrome wrote:

 HisDivineShadow wrote:
The abhumans have no place, fluffwise or not. They are mutants, after all. Something the Imperium hates.

You mean like Navigators?

More like Space Marines

Space Marines aren't mutants... A mutation is an error or deviation in a genetic code.

Space Marines are purpose-built, with the intention of creating exactly what they become. It isn't like somebody accidentally becomes a Space Marine after living on a high gravity world or being bitten by a radioactive spider.

 HisDivineShadow wrote:
The abhumans have no place, fluffwise or not. They are mutants, after all. Something the Imperium hates.

That's not really incompatible with them being front-line units in battle. Maybe the Imperium keeps all the Ogryns in death camps, only letting out a few at a time for when they need suicide units, equipped with bomb vests and big guns, and rewarded with summary execution in the unlikely chance they surive contact with the enemy. The Imperium hates everything after all, up to and including itself. It still makes use of things it hates, usually by grinding them down to oblivion in a perverse orgy of destruction.

 Agamemnon2 wrote:

 HisDivineShadow wrote:
The abhumans have no place, fluffwise or not. They are mutants, after all. Something the Imperium hates.

That's not really incompatible with them being front-line units in battle. Maybe the Imperium keeps all the Ogryns in death camps, only letting out a few at a time for when they need suicide units, equipped with bomb vests and big guns, and rewarded with summary execution in the unlikely chance they surive contact with the enemy. The Imperium hates everything after all, up to and including itself. It still makes use of things it hates, usually by grinding them down to oblivion in a perverse orgy of destruction.

No, it's pretty well established that the Imperium has "Ogryn worlds" where the lovable brutes live. Every so often an Imperial ship shows up, scoops up enough Ogryn to make a regiment or two, and then trains them (point stick at bad people to make them go away!) and then they're sent wherever they're needed.

Others are used as labor on various forgeworlds. Their simplistic minds and brute strength make them great for manual labor.

Ratlings on the other hand aren't quite as useful, but they're great shots, sneaky, clever, and small enough to sneak around undetected, making them great scouts. They also are apparently good cooks for what that's worth, and breed like rabbits (which for the Imperium is excellent, since it means a large supply of expendable scouts that nobody cares about)

It wouldn't surprise me if they got rid of the abhumans, but I hope not. They are one of my favorite parts of the army. I'd love to see more of them.

I’d say we’re more likely to get a Gretchin-sized box for plastic Ratlings (but 5 models only, and for the same price as the 11-model Grot box) and a Wraithguard-sized box for plastic Ogryn. I don’t think we’d get either for the next Codex, but I do think that Ogryn would be the first to get the new box.

They won’t cut them. When’s the last time GW cut a unit that wasn’t Inquisitorial in some manner?

Pariahs in the Necron Codex I think.

I wouldn't mind if Ratlings were folded into a "sniper unit" of somesuch. I think your right about the likelyhood of Ogryns getting any sort of new kit before Ratlings. It'd be good if any new IG boxes came with Bits (masks/helmets) to tie Ogryns in with the army. Steel Legion/Valhallans etc. That only really applies if the dream for plastic redesigns of the old metals comes true.

Sword brethren are no longer an actual unit. They are now crusade squad upgrades. So they count as being cut too.

 Medium of Death wrote:
Pariahs in the Necron Codex I think.

That's it. I knew it was something.

 Medium of Death wrote:
Pariahs in the Necron Codex I think.

Models which are solid stand ins for a royal court or Crypteks. The unit itself is gone, but the models still have a place.

 timetowaste85 wrote:
Sword brethren are no longer an actual unit. They are now crusade squad upgrades. So they count as being cut too.

Vanguard veterans. They're entirely the same, sans veteran skills which units can't generally buy anymore.

I sincerely doubt GW would axe abhumans. They've always been a part of the Imperial Guard, and they're an opportunity to sell new hotness infantry kits. I wouldn't be surprised to see an Ogryn combi-kit that contains ripper guns and some sort of larger close combat weapon option.

 Brother SRM wrote:
Models which are solid stand ins for a royal court or Crypteks. The unit itself is gone, but the models still have a place.

The unit is gone. So are the models. It's a unit that's been cut from the game. What you can 'counts as' it as is unimportant. There's no wiggle room here - that unit was cut.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Brother SRM wrote:
Models which are solid stand ins for a royal court or Crypteks. The unit itself is gone, but the models still have a place.

The unit is gone. So are the models. It's a unit that's been cut from the game. What you can 'counts as' it as is unimportant. There's no wiggle room here - that unit was cut.

No it's not. The unit is still in the game, it's called Lychguard with Warscythes. The only thing that was changed was the name and the fluff. But we all know how Necrons across the board got a fluff change. Then GW decided to give Pariahs a second option, namely shield and single handed sword, so that's your more traditional looking Lychguard.

 Brother SRM wrote:

I sincerely doubt GW would axe abhumans. They've always been a part of the Imperial Guard, and they're an opportunity to sell new hotness infantry kits. I wouldn't be surprised to see an Ogryn combi-kit that contains ripper guns and some sort of larger close combat weapon option.

I for one would like to see the return of Beastmen (although that would require a fluff 'revision').

I can see Ogryns getting some potent melee upgrades, at least some kind of power weapon,

 Sir Arun wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Brother SRM wrote:
Models which are solid stand ins for a royal court or Crypteks. The unit itself is gone, but the models still have a place.

The unit is gone. So are the models. It's a unit that's been cut from the game. What you can 'counts as' it as is unimportant. There's no wiggle room here - that unit was cut.

No it's not. The unit is still in the game, it's called Lychguard with Warscythes. The only thing that was changed was the name and the fluff. But we all know how Necrons across the board got a fluff change. Then GW decided to give Pariahs a second option, namely shield and single handed sword, so that's your more traditional looking Lychguard.

So change everything that is distinct about the Pariah and it's still a Pariah? Don't think so. Personally I see the point in being able to use them as "counts as", but Pariahs are long gone. Lycheguard are not "Souless" and are not "Psychic Abominations". I don't mind the Necron fluff change, but kind of wish that the Pariahs had stayed.

 Sir Arun wrote:
The only thing that was changed was the name and the fluff.

And the models. And the entire concept behind Pariahs.

So... everything?

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
A friend of mine working on Eternal Crusade (sorry... Warhammer forty-thousand's Eternal Crusade) says that they confirmed they are getting rid of Finecast, sooner rather than later.
I find it funny that it only took them, what, 4 years to realize they had a dud on their hands.

Actually, they didn't find a fault in Finecast, they found a fault in low run finely sculpted hero models.
Why sell a 16$ Finecast Librarian, when you can make a 30$ Plastic Librarian?

 Kroothawk wrote:

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
A friend of mine working on Eternal Crusade (sorry... Warhammer forty-thousand's Eternal Crusade) says that they confirmed they are getting rid of Finecast, sooner rather than later.
I find it funny that it only took them, what, 4 years to realize they had a dud on their hands.

Actually, they didn't find a fault in Finecast, they found a fault in low run finely sculpted hero models.
Why sell a 16$ Finecast Librarian, when you can make a 30$ Plastic Librarian?

Especially once they have amortized the cost of the mould. It's *almost* a license to print money. Although if they really wanted to capitalise on this, imho, they would have made a single sprue with all the bits options for all HQ units (save maybe the bike dude and special characters), charge you more for the box than a single clamshell and rake it in as people bought enough kits to make one of each. Or an extra box of tactical marines to spread them around.

Don't get rid of the Ratlings or Ogryns. I am not a huge fan of the ratlings, however, I do like Ogryns. Ogyrns need a fix, not sure what though.

Possible changes:

1. Give them the old 5th rules for furious charge. Losing the +1 initiative hurt:

2. Need to be able to assault quickly. They are bigger than normal humans, so, they should be able to move further than normal , not sure if fleet is the answer. I do like the ability that they could assault out of a chimera. (I just picture a chimera charging in reverse toward an objective).