Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I'm not sure I'm allowed to post point-cost about the centurions yet so I'll use substitute. The info is taken from BoLS latest forum (somebody got their 'dex early):

A 3 man Devastator centurion with 3 TLLC and 3 MLs cost the same as a stock LR. They have 2 wounds per model, T5, S5 and the rest of their stats are the same as a regular marine squad (there is a srgt in the unit with +1A and +1Ld). For the cost of a PF (-5pts) you can split fire the srgt.

To get the same amount of guns with regular devastators you would need 2 squads, one with 3 MLs, the other with 3 LCs, you get 10 wounds but no TL or T bump or 2+ save etc... And it only costs 5pts less than the Centurions above.

Regardless of whether you like the model or not I think the Centurions would make a great fire-base, less prone to getting shredded by Hellturkeys or blast weapons (with proper spacing). I can see 2 other powerful upgrades: ADL with quad-gun and the Imperial Fist chapter trait (I know from playing BT termies that TH on a quad-gun is deadly to incoming aircraft), or an allied DA libby with PFG for prescience and a 4++; or both!

The grav cannons upgrade could be horrifically deadly to MEQs or TEQs but beyond that it starts getting situational. If you're facing Daemons the Centurions will be pretty useless as the flying DPs can most likely stay out of the Centurions range and they can't hurt anything without an armor save...

Any thoughts on this?

I think LC versions will beat out LC Devs most of the time, thanks to mobility and ignoring night fighting.

For pure LC goodness however, my money is on Predators as a better value.

However my guess is the majority of Cents will be using Grav Cannons, not LCs.

I need 6 Grav cannons... but I only have one on sprew...

FFFFUUUUUUUUUU--

 Goat wrote:
I need 6 Grav cannons... but I only have one on sprew...

FFFFUUUUUUUUUU--

LOL, but seriously, isn't the Grav Cannon range quite a bit shorter? I know it doesn't just shoot once, but still... also aren't grav cannons terrible against things with low armor saves? I haven't run any numbers but that's what people have been saying.

My issue with Predators in general is that it's easy for a smart opponent to stay out of its LoS, and as soon as it moves (besides pivoting) it loses precious shots...

Does the box really only come with 1 grav cannon?

Kisada II wrote:
Does the box really only come with 1 grav cannon?

The full sprue pictures are on GW's site. It looks like there are 3, but sometimes it's hard to tell what parts are used for what. The siege drill bits look similar. We''l know better once the box and instructions and in out hands.

I was under the impression that you only took 1 grav-cannon + 1 grav-amp per centurion, meaning there will only be 3 grav-cannons per box.....could be wrong though

I was thinking about this unit last night, and thought that while it's expensive, adding a Tau buff commander could be really nasty. A majority T5 unit with 3 LC and 3 ML all rerolling to hit, ignoring cover, and with Tank / Monster Hunter. Plus potentially a couple 4++ drones to eat low AP weapons.

Although the same could be said for the Grav Cannons, getting a ton of shots that reroll to hit and to wound with ignores cover and AP2 would be pretty nasty as well, even with the shorter range.

The unit might be interesting, basically marine 'broadsides', and their cost isn't bad. I might use some if I can come up with some alternate models (I do have standards), thinking about modified Sentinels ( with contemptor arms or something) or maybe some other Mecha from other game systems.
I'll have to think about it some more, I do like Devs. Combat squading them in some missions is very handy though.

I think throwing them in a Skyshield Landing pad sounds like fun. T5, 2W, 2+, 4++ and decent LoS to boot. Throw in IH Chapter tactic to give IWND to the Character and Feel No Pain and you may have a formidable firing platform with either the LC/ML or Grav Cannon/ML.

 NickTheButcher wrote:
I think throwing them in a Skyshield Landing pad sounds like fun. T5, 2W, 2+, 4++ and decent LoS to boot. Throw in IH Chapter tactic to give IWND to the Character and Feel No Pain and you may have a formidable firing platform with either the LC/ML or Grav Cannon/ML.

This.

Or add tigurius for perfect timing and precognition to tank wounds.

BTW isn't the centurion ML actually a cyclone ML? So really it would be 6 ML's worth of shooting.

I really do like the idea of the unit.

It's a standard ML.

Super Newb wrote:

 Goat wrote:
I need 6 Grav cannons... but I only have one on sprew...

FFFFUUUUUUUUUU--

LOL, but seriously, isn't the Grav Cannon range quite a bit shorter? I know it doesn't just shoot once, but still... also aren't grav cannons terrible against things with low armor saves? I haven't run any numbers but that's what people have been saying.

Cents get to reroll wounds with grav amps so grav cannons remain passable against all targets and hyper lethal against 4+ and better, if that rumor was correct anyway.

What do grav guns do against tanks? Just curious since traditionally a dev with LCs job was AT. Is there a way to give them skyfire or intercept?

Col. Dash wrote:
What do grav guns do against tanks? Just curious since traditionally a dev with LCs job was AT. Is there a way to give them skyfire or intercept?

The rumors I have seen are: You roll a D6 for each hit, on a roll of 6 the vehicle loses a hull point and is immediately immobilized (DIE WAVE SERPENTS!) .

There does not appear to be a way to grant Skyfire or Interceptor to Centurions, unless you get the Big Guns Never Tire mission AND a mysterious objective that rolls up as a Skyfire Nexus

I really hope these Centurions make an appearance around here. I think they would be fun to fight against, and would give a boost to the vanilla codex.

I personally am not a huge fan of them, but I am hoping that they will make a dent in Wave Serpent spam. I'm still unsure if the grav amp allows them to re-roll their damage against vehicles. If it does, it will make them pretty good at double immobilizing things, which would be awesome.

Scouting Centurions in a LR for the win!!!!

 Hulksmash wrote:
Scouting Centurions in a LR for the win!!!!

As far as I can see only White Scars can achieve this though, and they are an army that really has no need for Centurions.

Well, Serpents could stay outside the range of grav cannons and they have have holofields.

MadmanMSU wrote:
I really hope these Centurions make an appearance around here. I think they would be fun to fight against, and would give a boost to the vanilla codex.

I personally am not a huge fan of them, but I am hoping that they will make a dent in Wave Serpent spam. I'm still unsure if the grav amp allows them to re-roll their damage against vehicles. If it does, it will make them pretty good at double immobilizing things, which would be awesome.

If anything makes a dent in Wave Serpent spam it will be Stalkers, not Centurions. Cheap, high rate of fire, and very useful against CronAir/Turkeys as well as Skimmers of all types.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

Grav cannons don't cause a glancing or penetrating hit so vehicles can't take a cover or invo save

Any time a vehicle takes a 2nd immobilized result it's wrecked.

So 12 gravcannon hits should wreck a wave serpent.

Thats kind of what I was thinking. I hope grav cannon are not only available with Cents though, I hate the models.

 schadenfreude wrote:
Grav cannons don't cause a glancing or penetrating hit so vehicles can't take a cover or invo save

Would have to check that.

 schadenfreude wrote:
Any time a vehicle takes a 2nd immobilized result it's wrecked.

Not quite, that was 5th edition. If an immobilized vehicle suffers another immobilized result now it loses an additional Hull Point, so while your assertion stands for vehicles with 3HP or less, it's not true for anything with 4HP or more.

 schadenfreude wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong.

Grav cannons don't cause a glancing or penetrating hit so vehicles can't take a cover or invo save

Any time a vehicle takes a 2nd immobilized result it's wrecked.

So 12 gravcannon hits should wreck a wave serpent.

Yeah, but 3 Centurions with 3 grav cannons are 250 pts and grav cannons have rather short range (24''). Serpents can manage to stay outside of range if needed.

MadmanMSU wrote:
I really hope these Centurions make an appearance around here. I think they would be fun to fight against, and would give a boost to the vanilla codex.

I personally am not a huge fan of them, but I am hoping that they will make a dent in Wave Serpent spam. I'm still unsure if the grav amp allows them to re-roll their damage against vehicles. If it does, it will make them pretty good at double immobilizing things, which would be awesome.

I can confirm now that I have the codex that the re-rolls from the Grav Amp DO work when determining it's effects on a vehicle.

 NickTheButcher wrote:

MadmanMSU wrote:
I really hope these Centurions make an appearance around here. I think they would be fun to fight against, and would give a boost to the vanilla codex.

I personally am not a huge fan of them, but I am hoping that they will make a dent in Wave Serpent spam. I'm still unsure if the grav amp allows them to re-roll their damage against vehicles. If it does, it will make them pretty good at double immobilizing things, which would be awesome.

I can confirm now that I have the codex that the re-rolls from the Grav Amp DO work when determining it's effects on a vehicle.

Ouch so 7 hits should wreck a 3hp target and 10 hits should wreck a 4hp target

5 shots each per centurian. Looks like they tear up vehicles.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 wuestenfux wrote:

 schadenfreude wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong.

Grav cannons don't cause a glancing or penetrating hit so vehicles can't take a cover or invo save

Any time a vehicle takes a 2nd immobilized result it's wrecked.

So 12 gravcannon hits should wreck a wave serpent.

Yeah, but 3 Centurions with 3 grav cannons are 250 pts and grav cannons have rather short range (24''). Serpents can manage to stay outside of range if needed.

Threat range is 30"

shurcat range is 24"

scatterlaser range is 36", but the window to shoot in is closer to 2 or 3 " rather than 6" because the scatter laser is mounted on the rear turret.

The window is small and centurians are going to be in the vanguard. It's not impossible, but it will require dedicating the wave serpent to shooting the centurians. There might also be a tau or IG gunline behind the centurians.

They are still fairly vulnerable units, even with T5 and 2W. If you don't need allies for something else and you are using some centurion devastators then a DA prescience libby with power field generator should be a great help.

I'd run a squad equipped with grav cannons and missile launchers. This way the squad will gain the most benefit from prescience, and being able to re-roll dice to hit and wound with the grav cannons should make them pretty effective.

The libby will sit in the middle of the squad, giving the centurions the important 4++ save (Which they will need, as grav cannon range of 24 dictates they cannot sit in cover all day).

 scrunty wrote:
I was under the impression that you only took 1 grav-cannon + 1 grav-amp per centurion, meaning there will only be 3 grav-cannons per box.....could be wrong though

There are indeed three grav cannons and three grav amps in the box.