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Sometimes, there's a job that needs to be done so you take a unit for it.

Dev cents with Grav give a no-go zone for enemy MCs within their effective range, which pretty much nothing else easily gives.

Las/Missile ones IMO are neat, but you can get that sort of thing from other parts of the army so the job can be moved depending on other factors.

I've played three games with Gravcannon/Missile Launcher centurions so far. In the first game, they (naturally) lost one man to the shooting from two hive tyrants and promptly failed morale and ran off the board in a stunning debut. Over the next two games (one against WS marines and one against Tyranids) they did remarkably well. Here is a quick breakdown.

VS White Scars: Mission was Relic with Vanguard deployment. I went second. The centurions deployed out of line of sight initially and moved into a ruin on turn one that left them about 20 inches away from the relic. They were able to effectively influence the relic the whole game and grav amps made wounding his bikes and scouts fairly reliable. Centurions also scored first blood for me by murdering a unit of 5 scouts that ventured too close on the top of 1. Centurions over the course of the game killed one unit of 5 scouts, a landspeeder storm, a razorback (outside of grav cannon range), and his bike captain (after the remainder of the command squad had been picked off by other shooting), and a 5 man bike squad. Very solid showing and his army was built like most common builds right now with little long range firepower which forced him to close to ranges where I'd be able to get the centurions into ideal range (22-24 inches). Ended up winning 6-1.

VS Tyranids: Mission was 3 objective Crusade with Hammer & Anvil deployment. Bit of bad dice saw two of my centurions die to Flyrant shooting before they got to shoot anything (my opponent is well aware of the damage potential). The survivor shoot an enduranced flyrant in cover in return and still managed to sneak two wound through the 5+/5+ which allowed a big squad to finish off his warlord. The survivor was then promptly assaulted by Ymgarls and died. That Flyrant was also First Blood. Ended up winning 6-5 so the centurions effectiveness against MCs made a huge difference (we each had one objective, warlord and linebreaker).

I really like the grav-cannon setup. The gravamp is a huge multipler to its effectivness and it fills a unique niche in a marine army that little else does. I'll update as I get some more games in, but my initial take is these guys are a must include for my Golden Throne Southwest list at the end of the month.

It seems to be a tossup between missile launchers or hurricane bolters for Grav Amp Centurions. I can see the benefits of both, but if I get a 2nd squad, I'll be hard pressed to choose between focusing on only Anti-Infantry or give some optional long range as well. I think I'd probably vote for the hurricane bolters, although for IF Centurions should probably be AT to take benefit from free Tank Hunters.

Chapter Tactics seems to sway the way you play them. Our Codex: Space Marines tactics discussions may eventually get split into which Chapter Tactics is chosen. I would just feel bad to take anti-infantry with my special rules.

I'm going to take grav amps on mine with missile launchers, and ally with my Dark Angels who will support them with LC dev squads and termis to deal with MC's and Terminators.

They also look quite nice as a replacement for devi squads... 3x LC + ML in cover = long range, 2+ with a 4+ cover save, T5, and Twin Linked LC's (oh and T5 and 2 wounds = hard to insta-kill). This makes them more durable and dependable than a Land Raider or a devi squad imho.

The lack of an invulnerable save is really their only downside, but use of cover and allies can really help this issue. I think they will be the new awesome for marine/marine allies.

A lot of people keep saying that the 24" range makes them not worth it....and I'm not certain why.

Grey Knights are almost limited to 24" across the board and they are still pretty decent. Necrons are the same way, albeit they have decent transports.

I do have to say, that sticking them in a Land Raider worked out very well for me. Deployed them sideways on the deployment line, moved them up, disembarked, and I was well within range of just about everything on my opponents side. Wiped a Wraithknight clean off the board in the first turn. Second turn, they were down 1 Centurion and had a wound on another. They managed to put another 4 wounds on a second Wraithknight. End of the game I still had 1 Centurion alive.

I'll have to get a few more games in with it before truly knowing if they will consistently perform, but I enjoyed playing with them and will welcome them in my army. They were expensive, especially with the Land Raider, but getting first blood by killing a Wraithknight doesn't happen very often.

If I was taking all grav then I would invest the 10 points in one missile launcher to increase their kill range to 36. Just so that you only have to get a toe within range of the unit to put the hurt on all of them.

 Leth wrote:
If I was taking all grav then I would invest the 10 points in one missile launcher to increase their kill range to 36. Just so that you only have to get a toe within range of the unit to put the hurt on all of them.

Good plan, it extends the range further actually, but not practically as there are seldom 24" distance within a unit.

One thing with Missile Launchers is that they can be handy to get that one extra hull point off when you get a bad roll (which do happen), where the Hurricaine Bolter couldn't scratch it.

mmm i really don't like centurions an this is why:
PRO :
* 2 Wounds
* TL Lasc.s
* 2+ armour save

CON:
*High cost
*No Inv.Saves
* Tough 5 so a S10 is an instadeath


But the Real Question is:
Greyknights got dreadknight
TAu got Riptide
Eldar got wraitknight

WHY THE F...K SM haven't got it!!! WHY


TAu and ELdars got AA weapons at straght 8-10
SM got SPECIALIZED VEICHLE!!! that are AA weapons
-.- really Hunter 1 shot FO7VP4
Stalker 4 shot FO7VP4 or 8 SHOT FO7VP4 at ab 2 -.-

Eldar don't get any AA weapons apart from their own flyer or Flakk Missiles on Warwalkers.

I am personally really glad that each new codex doesn't just give each army +1 of this unit type, +1 of this unit type, etc, that would make the game incredibly boring. I mean, to some extent most armies are getting flyers, but at least they're not all clones of eachother. Space Marines need something to set them apart, and no other army aside from Imperial Guard have dedicated Anti-Air Tanks. Pretty cool, if you ask me.

I am also very happy with Centurions. These guys are gonna see more use than people think as they are playtested and used more.

 NickTheButcher wrote:
I think throwing them in a Skyshield Landing pad sounds like fun. T5, 2W, 2+, 4++ and decent LoS to boot. Throw in IH Chapter tactic to give IWND to the Character and Feel No Pain and you may have a formidable firing platform with either the LC/ML or Grav Cannon/ML.

The skyshield is the key. I imagine that we will be seeing ADLs being replaced with skyshields in tournaments soon. When half or more of the armies that show up in tournaments have two or more riptides there is a growing need for invulnerable saves. The skyshield is one of the few things in the game capable of giving out an invulnerable save and it is available to all armies.

 augustus5 wrote:

 NickTheButcher wrote:
I think throwing them in a Skyshield Landing pad sounds like fun. T5, 2W, 2+, 4++ and decent LoS to boot. Throw in IH Chapter tactic to give IWND to the Character and Feel No Pain and you may have a formidable firing platform with either the LC/ML or Grav Cannon/ML.

The skyshield is the key. I imagine that we will be seeing ADLs being replaced with skyshields in tournaments soon. When half or more of the armies that show up in tournaments have two or more riptides there is a growing need for invulnerable saves. The skyshield is one of the few things in the game capable of giving out an invulnerable save and it is available to all armies.

Skyshield, just like the ADL, is crazy underpriced. 75 points for 4+ invulnerable saves for a massive amount of models is huge. Basically all the shooty models (even a couple tanks I suppose) of every army can make a Skyshield firebase which would drop the inv save's price to a few points per model. Funnily enough, even Tau themselves benefit from it by deploying all the Broadsides, Missile Drones and Skyrays there.

Looking forward to the ridiculous sight of Wraithknights and Riptides shooting at eachother from opposing Skyshield Landing Pads.

Either stick Tigurius with the Centurion Devs for Prescience and the very likely roll of Forewarning. Or, if you don't want to risk it on dice rolls, just ally in a Dark Angel Libby with Power Field Generator. 95 points of Invul and re-roll to hits.

Skyshield happens to be banned from quite a few tournaments I have heard, a handful of local ones too.

I have heard bastion and aegis only for the most part. Which is a shame since now that everything ignores cover there needs to be something.

Problem is cover inflation happened, so now we have things that ignore cover. We have crazy invul save inflation right now so it will be interesting to see how GW rectifies(or tries to) this issue.

 Leth wrote:
I have heard bastion and aegis only for the most part. Which is a shame since now that everything ignores cover there needs to be something.

Problem is cover inflation happened, so now we have things that ignore cover. We have crazy invul save inflation right now so it will be interesting to see how GW rectifies(or tries to) this issue.

I'm not seeing the invulnerable save inflation that you're talking about, but when 4+ cover saves (which in many cases work like invulnerable saves) cost 50 points per army (1p per model on average) the whole AP system breaks down completely. It's always been the case that if cover saves are too good and too easily accessible MEQ and low AP weapons become overpriced. I'd like the next edition to bring back to-hit and armour save modifiers and invulnerable saves being transformed into ward saves, but there's very little chance of that happening.

Both eldar and daemons can get 2+ Re-rollable Invul saves on entire units pretty reliably.

 Leth wrote:
Both eldar and daemons can get 2+ Re-rollable Invul saves on entire units pretty reliably.

There are 2 builds that give the 2++ rerollable save. SeerStars and screamerCouncils. Those are the builds designed for that purpose. They are both very strong builds.
Tzeentch daemons can also get it in some other isolated places -- going to ground behind an ADL, but they are more situation.

You have you build your army with that build in mind though. Its not like every eldar or daemon player out there has a 2++ rerollable coming out of their ears.

 labmouse42 wrote:

 Leth wrote:
Both eldar and daemons can get 2+ Re-rollable Invul saves on entire units pretty reliably.

There are 2 builds that give the 2++ rerollable save. SeerStars and screamerCouncils. Those are the builds designed for that purpose. They are both very strong builds.
Tzeentch daemons can also get it in some other isolated places -- going to ground behind an ADL, but they are more situation.

You have you build your army with that build in mind though. Its not like every eldar or daemon player out there has a 2++ rerollable coming out of their ears.

This is why you have Tigurius to get that Misfortune. Somehow not too many tournament wins have been by Seer Council/ Screamerstar though.

Without the Baron, Seer Council is susceptible to tarpit. And they have to roll the right powers every game.

Screamerstar, I don't know as much.

I'm currently writing up a 2000 pt IH list and my problem is heavy support limitations. With mof I'm running 4 dreads ( don't hate on me) which leaves me two hs slots. Now, I wanted to field two preds, but I also NEED to include a tfc. So I'm at a dilemma. Then it hit me, 3 lascannon ml cents are putting out roughly the same as two autocannon las sponson preds. This leaves me the free spot for the tfc and all is sweet. Admittedly I lose two av 13 chassis but the tfc is fairly important as my only real dedicated anti horde.

At what point do you concede defeat and pay that little extra for something in order to balance your list?

The cents would be going behaind an adl btw.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I gues what am really asking the community is, are 3 cents worth trading for two preds considering all I have told?