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I've looked through a search and (surprisingly) not found this question. Which is better: Graviton or Plasma? Me and my friend were arguing, I said Graviton, he said Plasma. I'm unsure, but I kind of want to support the new kid on the block, what's your view?

If you ask me:
On anything Relentless: Graviton.
The rest: Plasma.

Grav is very much anti-heavy-troop; death to meganobs but a butterfly kiss to shoota boyz. Plus, it's not real hot versus vehicles without a grav amp reroll. Plasma, on the other hand, is an equal opportunity murderer. Less shots, but more reliable in general use.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/551286.page
That thread has some mathhammer on the options (RF means a Rapid Fire Plasma-gun)
2+: Grav
3+: Grav
4+: RF > Grav > Single
5+: RF > Grav > Single
6+: Plasma > Grav

I would call 4 and 5 a tie, since it depends on the range.
So that is 2 points for Grav and 1 for Plasma.

Ooh, one more thing! My favourite carrier for Grav-guns are bikes.
So at anything with 4+ or better I would use the Grav and then the TL-Bolter on the rest (within RF-range, otherwise still the Grav-gun).
Math gives that:
2+ to 4+: Grav beats TL-Bolter
5+: TL-RF-Bolter > Grav > TL-Bolter
6+ Any bolter > Grav

(I am guessing all of this is calculated against T4 targets)

Kangodo wrote:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/551286.page
That thread has some mathhammer on the options (RF means a Rapid Fire Plasma-gun)
2+: Grav
3+: Grav
4+: RF > Grav > Single
5+: RF > Grav > Single
6+: Plasma > Grav

I would call 4 and 5 a tie, since it depends on the range.
So that is 2 points for Grav and 1 for Plasma.

Ooh, one more thing! My favourite carrier for Grav-guns are bikes.
So at anything with 4+ or better I would use the Grav and then the TL-Bolter on the rest (within RF-range, otherwise still the Grav-gun).
Math gives that:
2+ to 4+: Grav beats TL-Bolter
5+: TL-RF-Bolter > Grav > TL-Bolter
6+ Any bolter > Grav

(I am guessing all of this is calculated against T4 targets)

My friend doesn't believe you and wants the Math Hammer explained.. Sorry .-.

Plasma. Being able to be effective AT is worth the slight downgrade in performance at ranges >12. Grav is cool, but needing 6s for a result is pretty bad. Relentless does make grav more appealing, but on anything else plasma wins.

Not to mention a non-relentess grav rifle only shoots twice with a range of 9". Plasma is much more utilitarian for any unit that is not relentless.

Plasma all the way. Better range while moving, better at AT, better at anti-anything-not-in-terminator-armour. Plasma on rhinos/footsloggers, melta/flamer on pod troops.

 BrotherOfBone wrote:
My friend doesn't believe you and wants the Math Hammer explained.. Sorry .-.

Your friend should get more practice with MS excel.
This image shows the formula i used to generate the math, and the different values within.

If its hard to read, click on it and it will open in a larger image for you. Excel is a great tool for mathhammering.

 Paradigm wrote:
Plasma all the way. Better range while moving, better at AT, better at anti-anything-not-in-terminator-armour.

That is an incorrect assessment.

This chart shows the number of kills that a grav gun and plasma guns will make. The two flat lines are plasma guns (double tap and single tap) while the linear line is the grav gun.


At ranges over 12", the grav gun is better against anything when shot at anything 5+ save or better. At short range, the grav gun is better when shot at targets with a 3+ save or better.

The reason for this difference lies in the number of shots. The grav gun is getting 3 shots where the plasma gun is getting only 1 or 2. That is a difference of 300% more shots at long range and 50% more shots at short range.

Bikes are the best transport system for grav guns due to relentless.

 BrotherOfBone wrote:
My friend doesn't believe you and wants the Math Hammer explained.. Sorry .-.

What part doesn't he believe?
The math is explained in the thread, it shows the expected-damage it does against T4-targets.

The biggest downside of Grav is the loss of shots and range when you move, it's balanced around that!
So on relentless I would call Grav much better, anything else it's Plasma-guns.
That's because a relentless-Grav has three times the shots of Plasma if you're over 12"
That amount of shots makes Grav even better at 5+ (where it needs to wound at 5+ vs the plasma with 2+)

The math for that is easy:
1 plasma shot => 0.66 hits => 0.55 wounds at AP2
3 grav shots => 2 hits => 0.66 wounds at AP2

All of you claiming that plasma is better, you are forgetting that plasma often kills its user. Anybody who has used plasma can recall pivotal moments where the bearer killed himself instead of making that crucial shot.

Anyways, grav is clearly better when you look at the math.
I can guarantee the next big tournament will reflect this.

herpguy wrote:
Anyways, grav is clearly better when you look at the math.

Only if you assume you aren't moving, which is a bad assumption to make. If you need to move then plasma equals or beats grav against all targets.

"Often" kills its user? I've used plasma like it's going out of style, and it's rare I get a IGH death. The versatility is much bigger than the risk.

Plasma. Grav looks a bit too situational for me, and as I use a lot if drop pods better shooting over 12" doesn't concern me so much.

Kangodo wrote:
If you ask me:
On anything Relentless: Graviton.
The rest: Plasma.

QFT! On bikes, you want grav. On everything else, you want plasma.