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I can answer any questions if anyone has any about how the tourney went. Someone was saying sisters would be completely hosed. If GW really hasent updated them to the point they have one viable unit in their army, that sounds like GW's fault, and nobody said allies weren't allowed

Well how did the tournament end up? What army won? What was their "handicap" and what unit were they forced to use?

What did you end up running?

Orock wrote:
I can answer any questions if anyone has any about how the tourney went. Someone was saying sisters would be completely hosed. If GW really hasent updated them to the point they have one viable unit in their army, that sounds like GW's fault, and nobody said allies weren't allowed

Handicap BSS as troops. Suddenly, you can't field a legal army.

 pretre wrote:

Orock wrote:
I can answer any questions if anyone has any about how the tourney went. Someone was saying sisters would be completely hosed. If GW really hasent updated them to the point they have one viable unit in their army, that sounds like GW's fault, and nobody said allies weren't allowed

Handicap BSS as troops. Suddenly, you can't field a legal army.

If BSS is Battle Sister Squads, you can't ban them. He said you can't ban troops. If you read the previous posts, you would know.

SCP Yeeman wrote:
If BSS is Battle Sister Squads, you can't ban them. He said you can't ban troops. If you read the previous posts, you would know.

Rawr. I've been in the thread but had forgotten that one bit of the arbitrary tourney rules. If you had read the previous posts, you would know.

I would not play.

I would make it known why I was not playing.

This is not a balanced handicap - it hurts certain armies a lot more than others.

The Auld Grump

This sounds like a funny/fun thing for a "lol" night. If it costed $1 I wouldn't go though. It realllly gives certain armies crippling power over others.

What were the orks not allowed to bring?

Da krimson barun wrote:
What were the orks not allowed to bring?[/quote

Nob squads and that includes bikers and mega nobs unless he wanted a squad for his warboss making one troops but he elected for none as he usually runs only one anyway



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SCP Yeeman wrote:
Well how did the tournament end up? What army won? What was their "handicap" and what unit were they forced to use?

What did you end up running?

Posted page 2 ill link at beginning when I'm home and not just on break at work

Orock wrote:

4th place, imperial fists. Since devastators were denied to me, I switched to a heavy sternguard list. Ran pedro for my leader, and he rolled around in a redeemer with the terminators. I had fun, but the terminators never really earned their points back, even a game where I deep struck them behind enemy lines. He shot them to crap, I only lost one termie, but then I assaulted with them and lost 3 more to the whole 4 saves I had to make before they got to swing. Seeing 3 ones come up on a 45 point model assault really depresses you. The one game I did win (other 2 were tied) they actually never made it to combat, the tau just jumped away. But the threat of them hearded him toward my other stuff. Still probably wont take again until the next edition, assuming they are less terribad.

Orock wrote:
I had to take terminators.

I am sure you absolutely HAD to take them because the only extra models you HAPPENED to bring were 2+/3++ terminators. Totally didn't game the 'can only take what you have rule' on that one. No dude, I totally believe you that you sold your Centurions, Assault Marines, and WW yesterday. Your Mom really wanted them and so you HAD to do it.

Wow, even the OP admitted that he cheated in the tournament. And yet people are still acting this this system has merit. It is a proven fact that any tournament where your opponent decides your list for you is a bad tournament. And since this is in the Tournament Discussion thread and not the List Building Thread, this is the place to talk about the tournament aspect of the rules and not the list building.


But to make all you special MLPs happy:
If I played this with my Nids then my Pyrovores would be Biovores so I couldn't be forced to take them (this is actually how they work since they make a great Biovore model and Pyrovores are, literally, the worst unit in the game. Also, any assembled Provore model automatically counts as a Biovore conversion due to the fact that the model has been removed from the box and put together), Spore Mines are part of the Birovore Brood so I don't have any extra for that slot. No lictors because 'I sold them to my mom', but I do have a Death Leaper , no one has a Harpy so I don't have to worry about that, and my magnetized Tervigons, all 5 of them, are all built up as Tervigons so I can't run any as a Tyranofex. Sorry. I do have some Raveners but no Shrikes (actually true since I am redoing my conversion on them) or any type of Ripper (true because they became so worthless I now use them as wound counters for MCs). So, you can force me to eat up a Elite slot with a Death Leaper or have me drop points of a Ravener Brood. And that is assuming I didn't 'forget' to bring them. Right OP?

I mean, Terminators? Seriously? You were FORCED to take Terminators? Why not just admit that you cheated out the ass.

I think a better system would have been to put the weaker units in the dex in a hat and pick them out as a mandatory choice, that way it's pure fortune and no malice involved.

My armored battlegroup would love this tourney. Ban ALL the long-ranged AT units, while my Command Tanks and Tank Squadrons are unbanable

This thread makes me think "damn, I swear some people can't read"
Sounds like you had fun and I wouldn't mind giving this set up a shot

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
My armored battlegroup would love this tourney. Ban ALL the long-ranged AT units, while my Command Tanks and Tank Squadrons are unbanable

You only get to ban one unit from one army.

The levels of rage in this thread are pretty epic. This sounds like a really fun tournament, great for generating interesiting stories since everyone will be trying to get the best out of the required derpy unit and won't be able to rely on one clutch unit (unless its a troop or HQ unit).

Radu Lykan wrote:
This thread makes me think "damn, I swear some people can't read"
Sounds like you had fun and I wouldn't mind giving this set up a shot

I'm not sure if they read, but don't comprehend or read every other sentence or simply just skip to the last post and respond. Either way it is very annoying,

This tournament sounded like fun. It's a perfect way to get people out of their comfort zones and try something new. Another idea would be to randomly reassign armies a few minutes prior to tournament start.

I'd play this and totally enjoy it.

This reminds me a lot of a 'whos the boss' tournament for Warmachine.
For those who don't know, warmachine revolves around your Warcaster - each faction has ~10 casters, and each of the >120 casters in the game are pretty unique, but they dictate the style of your army to a ridiculous degree.
In a 'whos the boss' tournament, you build an army without a caster and then are randomly assigned one via a Wheel of Fortune. This leads to hilarious results as casters are given to armies that were never balanced with the thought of certain abilities being present - kind of like if Tau got randomly assigned a leader that gave all troops 5 AP2 attacks.
Its great for a bit of fun if people don't take it too seriously, AND if people have a bit of an opportunity to get re-rolls or whatever if they get truly horrible casters.

But in 40k, I think the general balance issues make it a lot worse. For example, Tau are a really versatile army with 2 or 3 good options in every force org slot and maybe only 2 'bad' units in the whole codex. Lose riptides? You can still take pathfinders and broadsides and skyrays. But then there are a bunch of armies with only 1 or 2 good units and a few which are essentially useless (take Tervigons away from Nids and replace them with Pyrovores?) or gaming the force org chart to prevent people from taking super necessary units (ie, force Pyrovores on a Nid player so they can't take Hive Guard) ...

I think its a cool idea that could be very interesting, but I think the implementation that the OP described could use a lot of work to make it both fun AND fair.

 Kwosge wrote:

Orock wrote:

4th place, imperial fists. Since devastators were denied to me, I switched to a heavy sternguard list. Ran pedro for my leader, and he rolled around in a redeemer with the terminators. I had fun, but the terminators never really earned their points back, even a game where I deep struck them behind enemy lines. He shot them to crap, I only lost one termie, but then I assaulted with them and lost 3 more to the whole 4 saves I had to make before they got to swing. Seeing 3 ones come up on a 45 point model assault really depresses you. The one game I did win (other 2 were tied) they actually never made it to combat, the tau just jumped away. But the threat of them hearded him toward my other stuff. Still probably wont take again until the next edition, assuming they are less terribad.

Orock wrote:
I had to take terminators.

I am sure you absolutely HAD to take them because the only extra models you HAPPENED to bring were 2+/3++ terminators. Totally didn't game the 'can only take what you have rule' on that one. No dude, I totally believe you that you sold your Centurions, Assault Marines, and WW yesterday. Your Mom really wanted them and so you HAD to do it.

Wow, even the OP admitted that he cheated in the tournament. And yet people are still acting this this system has merit. It is a proven fact that any tournament where your opponent decides your list for you is a bad tournament. And since this is in the Tournament Discussion thread and not the List Building Thread, this is the place to talk about the tournament aspect of the rules and not the list building.


But to make all you special MLPs happy:


If I played this with my Nids then my Pyrovores would be Biovores so I couldn't be forced to take them (this is actually how they work since they make a great Biovore model and Pyrovores are, literally, the worst unit in the game. Also, any assembled Provore model automatically counts as a Biovore conversion due to the fact that the model has been removed from the box and put together), Spore Mines are part of the Birovore Brood so I don't have any extra for that slot. No lictors because 'I sold them to my mom', but I do have a Death Leaper , no one has a Harpy so I don't have to worry about that, and my magnetized Tervigons, all 5 of them, are all built up as Tervigons so I can't run any as a Tyranofex. Sorry. I do have some Raveners but no Shrikes (actually true since I am redoing my conversion on them) or any type of Ripper (true because they became so worthless I now use them as wound counters for MCs). So, you can force me to eat up a Elite slot with a Death Leaper or have me drop points of a Ravener Brood. And that is assuming I didn't 'forget' to bring them. Right OP?

I mean, Terminators? Seriously? You were FORCED to take Terminators? Why not just admit that you cheated out the ass.

Wow, I don't think you could come off more of an ass. First, the drawing was a week before the game. So I dident have any models at all extra or no with me to "cheat". Second I could have brought any terminators, and own shooty ones too, which I think aren't as effective. And the way your trying to game a system that you will never be part of just in your mind, sounds like you would be the cheater. Stay super mad, bro.

 Happygrunt wrote:

Orock wrote:
I actually agree with it. Makes it so you don't see the same old same old every tourney. Also if something is so broken that it cripples an army not to take it, then that is poor rules in the first place.

Imagine a tournament where riptides, helldrakes, wave serpents, vendettas, devastators, venoms, crossants, death company, and nobz aren't allowed. Don't think we have a tyranid player, not sure wasent there for the whole drawing.

Its a unique one time event that people will give feedback about, and may or may not be used again. I don't see the big deal, its not like tourneys all across the country are going to pick up on this idea so as to "change the meta to be new and exciting". Its local and dosent affect your play one bit.

Imagine this. I play IG armored. I do not run vendettas as a matter of principle. I put my name in the hat, and someone stops me from running leman russes. How am I supposed to be able to compete with the corner stone of my army being removed?

What about the guy who wants to run a siege Imperial Fists list? Or the guy who wants to play the BA Death Company list (You know, the one with no scoring models)?

Hell, if you can ban transports (as you seem to suggest) you can make DE almost unplayable and screw with Eldar players who do not own a footdar army.

You do realise that this was a one-off, and was optional, right? They all knew what they were getting into and agreed to do it.
It's not like 7th ed 40k will be using this ruling all the time :/

Lot of people with poor reading comprehension!

I would have loved this kind of event. Sounds like something interesting for a one off tournament.

While it wouldn't be good for a tournament situation, I'd love to get a group of friends together, maybe five or six, and then have each one make the worst army list they could possibly imagine for each army. When you face a space marine opponent, he has to play with the space marine list you made, and you have to play with the list he made.

 dragqueeninspace wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
My armored battlegroup would love this tourney. Ban ALL the long-ranged AT units, while my Command Tanks and Tank Squadrons are unbanable

You only get to ban one unit from one army.

The levels of rage in this thread are pretty epic. This sounds like a really fun tournament, great for generating interesiting stories since everyone will be trying to get the best out of the required derpy unit and won't be able to rely on one clutch unit (unless its a troop or HQ unit).

I saw. But it looks like lots of the long range antitank was already banned by others. No IF devastators? Thanks man! All I need is to ban the highest threat non-hq or troop unit in the enemy army.

 Kwosge wrote:

Orock wrote:
I had to take terminators.

I am sure you absolutely HAD to take them because the only extra models you HAPPENED to bring were 2+/3++ terminators. Totally didn't game the 'can only take what you have rule' on that one. No dude, I totally believe you that you sold your Centurions, Assault Marines, and WW yesterday. Your Mom really wanted them and so you HAD to do it.

Wow, even the OP admitted that he cheated in the tournament. And yet people are still acting this this system has merit. And since this is in the Tournament Discussion thread and not the List Building Thread, this is the place to talk about the tournament aspect of the rules and not the list building.

He HAD to take terminators because that was the unit CHOSEN by his opponent for him to be forced to run. Please read the OP fully before spouting venom.

It is a proven fact that any tournament where your opponent decides your list for you is a bad tournament.

Where is your evidence? Variety is the spice of life, my friendly troll. Simply because the FLGS decided to throw a wrench into list building doesn't empirically make it inferior.

AS for the OP, it sounds like a great concept, but I certainly think it hinders some armies more than others. My Nids, for example, can still MC spam Tervs and Flyrants and laugh at most armies, while (as mentioned many times), an IG Russ player is hit much harder. It is an interesting concept, but I think it could certainly have been implemented differently.

I also like that you knew your limitations a week in advance so you had ample time to prepare, and weren't blindsided and scrambling to compensate for missing the crux of your army.

Besides, as a free tourney, it is great experience and forces everyone to rely more on tactical advantage.

 Irkhalu wrote:


AS for the OP, it sounds like a great concept, but I certainly think it hinders some armies more than others. My Nids, for example, can still MC spam Tervs and Flyrants and laugh at most armies, while (as mentioned many times), an IG Russ player is hit much harder. It is an interesting concept, but I think it could certainly have been implemented differently.

I also like that you knew your limitations a week in advance so you had ample time to prepare, and weren't blindsided and scrambling to compensate for missing the crux of your army.

Besides, as a free tourney, it is great experience and forces everyone to rely more on tactical advantage.

This is my view too. When your standard list has been disallowed, you have to learn to rely on supposedly less capable combinations. But when you attempt these new combinations, you may learn something from them. I recall playing a 2,000 points game where I had forgotten half my army, and had to borrow someone else's models to fill in the points gap. During this game I was shown the usefulness of cultists, learned never to touch chosen marines, and that Nurgle really, really works for me

 Irkhalu wrote:

 Kwosge wrote:

Orock wrote:
I had to take terminators.

I am sure you absolutely HAD to take them because the only extra models you HAPPENED to bring were 2+/3++ terminators. Totally didn't game the 'can only take what you have rule' on that one. No dude, I totally believe you that you sold your Centurions, Assault Marines, and WW yesterday. Your Mom really wanted them and so you HAD to do it.

Wow, even the OP admitted that he cheated in the tournament. And yet people are still acting this this system has merit. And since this is in the Tournament Discussion thread and not the List Building Thread, this is the place to talk about the tournament aspect of the rules and not the list building.

He HAD to take terminators because that was the unit CHOSEN by his opponent for him to be forced to run. Please read the OP fully before spouting venom.

It is a proven fact that any tournament where your opponent decides your list for you is a bad tournament.

Where is your evidence? Variety is the spice of life, my friendly troll. Simply because the FLGS decided to throw a wrench into list building doesn't empirically make it inferior.

AS for the OP, it sounds like a great concept, but I certainly think it hinders some armies more than others. My Nids, for example, can still MC spam Tervs and Flyrants and laugh at most armies, while (as mentioned many times), an IG Russ player is hit much harder. It is an interesting concept, but I think it could certainly have been implemented differently.

I also like that you knew your limitations a week in advance so you had ample time to prepare, and weren't blindsided and scrambling to compensate for missing the crux of your army.

Besides, as a free tourney, it is great experience and forces everyone to rely more on tactical advantage.

The IG player we had had his anti air banned (what are they called hydras?) by one of the chaos players planning on utilizing his then banned shortly after helldrakes heh. He still ran an aegis, so it hurt minimally. But again if he dident have enough models he would be allowed to proxy with a few restrictions. So the leman russ could be used as some of his other tanks in the forgeworld books.


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 Unit1126PLL wrote:

 dragqueeninspace wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
My armored battlegroup would love this tourney. Ban ALL the long-ranged AT units, while my Command Tanks and Tank Squadrons are unbanable

You only get to ban one unit from one army.

The levels of rage in this thread are pretty epic. This sounds like a really fun tournament, great for generating interesiting stories since everyone will be trying to get the best out of the required derpy unit and won't be able to rely on one clutch unit (unless its a troop or HQ unit).

I saw. But it looks like lots of the long range antitank was already banned by others. No IF devastators? Thanks man! All I need is to ban the highest threat non-hq or troop unit in the enemy army.

Honestly I got off easy compared to others. Sure IF devastators are great, but I still had sooo many good choices in the new dex it dident hurt as much as say if a sister player sat down and lost their linchpin. Im not buying those centurions though, I refuse to reward GW for bad behavior in making 3 models 80 bucks because spess marheens, when 3 killa kans, argueably more detailed with more plastic are 45.

I ran a thunderfire cannon, whirlwind and a redeemer to run my slow arse termies in. Pedro giving them an extra attack was kinda nice though. too bad they were embarrassed by nids and their poison wounds. And at one point I had to make 4 saves for my termies, and failed 3 2+ in one roll. That hurt.