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Hello all,

So this is my first time writing on this part of the forum, so please forgive me for any noob mistakes and unrelated facts.

A little back story: for my English 101 class in college (or university for you folks outside the States) we were assigned to do a 3 page essay on description and classification of a subject(s). I had a talk with the teacher, and he likes the idea of defining the wargaming community, being that it isn't well known and mainstrem. He liked it because he use to play WHFB back in the day (he owns five armies, to which I am certain one is Dark Elves or Slaanesh Daemons since he likes the Slaaneshi lore.)

So I've writen most of my paper by now, covering details such as the painting aspect of the hobby and how it defines the wargaming community with the patience and finesse required to paint the models to major events like MWG's Apocalypticon and Games Day UK among others.

So my purpose of this thread is to ask the wargamers themselves how they define their hobby and the people behind it. Because I know most of us aren't thick glasses wearing dudes living in the basement and playing D&D all day (though let's face it, that sounds like a heck of a way to spend a rainy day.)

I'm trying to show how our community is full of average Joes and even dedicated girls who are proud of what they do and have accomplished.

So let me know what you guys think, if you feel I'm might have missed something, I'd be glad to correct it and give credit where credit is due.
Thanks!

Question - why define it as 'average joes and even dedicated girls'? Girl gamers can be just as 'average joe' as any guy.

 -Loki- wrote:
Question - why define it as 'average joes and even dedicated girls'? Girl gamers can be just as 'average joe' as any guy.

What I meant to say was people who at first glance wouldn't look like wargamers.

The common misconception of a wargamer or a tabletop gamer overall is that of a socially awkward, point dexter kind of person when in fact there are people who have day to day jobs like construction workers, athletes, teachers, older folks, younger folks, stay-at-home moms, etc.

Stating that the stereotype is of an awkward nerd only serves to perpetuate the stereotype.

 Blacksails wrote:
Stating that the stereotype is of an awkward nerd only serves to perpetuate the stereotype.

It doesn't, the purpose is to clarify the misconception. My teacher and I talked about it and read some essays that say otherwise.

 BattleCapIronblood wrote:

 Blacksails wrote:
Stating that the stereotype is of an awkward nerd only serves to perpetuate the stereotype.

It doesn't, the purpose is to clarify the misconception. My teacher and I talked about it and read some essays that say otherwise.

Just to clarify, there are essays out there that aim to prove a significant portion of the wargaming community fall under some awkward nerd stereotype?

 Blacksails wrote:

 BattleCapIronblood wrote:

 Blacksails wrote:
Stating that the stereotype is of an awkward nerd only serves to perpetuate the stereotype.

It doesn't, the purpose is to clarify the misconception. My teacher and I talked about it and read some essays that say otherwise.

Just to clarify, there are essays out there that aim to prove a significant portion of the wargaming community fall under some awkward nerd stereotype?

Not wargaming specifically, but "nerdiness" in general

Wargaming is associated (or was in the past, it's not clear where the line ends) with people that most of society has labelled as a nerd. I feel that demographic has evolved over the years into what is simply people who enjoy their hobby as much as the next guy collecting baseball cars or the person playing paintball.

Okay, so to just to clarify something else; do you just want examples of people/anecdotes of clubs/stores where we fall outside the stereotype?

Like, "Hi, my name's Joe, and I've been sober for...whoops, wrong meeting. I'm a middle aged man, with two kids, an architect and enjoy long walks on the beach and thirty year old scotch. And space marines."

 Blacksails wrote:
Okay, so to just to clarify something else; do you just want examples of people/anecdotes of clubs/stores where we fall outside the stereotype?

Like, "Hi, my name's Joe, and I've been sober for...whoops, wrong meeting. I'm a middle aged man, with two kids, an architect and enjoy long walks on the beach and thirty year old scotch. And space marines."

Pretty much, I guess. I'm just trying to disprove the stereotype by showing that anyone can be a wargamer and that our community is a social, tightly woven niche. Idk how else to describe it.

Fair enough.

Well, I'm military, and the club I came from and first learned was all military. A lot of good guys, one or two stereotypically nerdy people, but the other two dozen or so were pretty normal guys. We'd have beerhammer/beer anything nights, and we're all active in many other parts of our college or town life.

The store in town was also pretty reasonable. It was a military town, so a solid number of retired or older military guys, and a mixed bag of university students (three universities/colleges in the town), but weren't what I'd consider to be overly nerdy. No real neckbeards or social embarassments.

Guess I was pretty lucky.

 Blacksails wrote:
Fair enough.

Well, I'm military, and the club I came from and first learned was all military. A lot of good guys, one or two stereotypically nerdy people, but the other two dozen or so were pretty normal guys. We'd have beerhammer/beer anything nights, and we're all active in many other parts of our college or town life.

The store in town was also pretty reasonable. It was a military town, so a solid number of retired or older military guys, and a mixed bag of university students (three universities/colleges in the town), but weren't what I'd consider to be overly nerdy. No real neckbeards or social embarassments.

Guess I was pretty lucky.

That's awesome. I personally know guys who would be on par with what you said. But I like how you shared the mixed bag analogy.

In my group we're fairly diverse - of my three best gaming friends:

One of us is a biochemist by trade, focusing i think more on the tech rather than synthesis (honestly i don't really know, i think this friend has told me what he does a dozen times, and i still don't really get it. He's effing brilliant is all i know. haha!). However he also plays upright bass for a rockabilly band, and is a super down to earth person. If you put him in a line up of ten guys, he's probably the last one you'd think played with little dudemens. No kids, single, loves to travel, vegetarian.

Another is an IT professional, 2 kids, divorced, generally loves video games, plays Eve a little, and is a tech genius. Also a really avid exerciser - rock climbing, kayaking, hiking, bike riding, you name it. This guy is a huuuuuge foodie. He missed his calling as either a chef, or at least a restaurant critic or something. Loves to cook, try new food types and places, etc.

Another is another IT professional - legally single, no kids, again, huge array of varied interests - gaming, books, physical activity, incredible artist, very gifted.


For my part, I'm a construction management professional (project manager) with a background in law, 1 kid, interested in gaming, but also design (of any type - architectural, landscape, mechanical, game, etc), and very politically active.


For the most part, none of us fit the typically stereotype of gamers.

Hope this helps!

I've been to a few different GW locations in my area and in other provinces - I'd have to say that the wargamer stereotypes are accurate about 50% of the time.

Sometimes I'll walk into my local GW, sit down at the painting table and start talking to some of the guys with no issue (regular guys chilling on their day off or after work/school).

Other times I'll walk in and it is the land of misfit toys with massive people in generic metallica shirts or tiny people in XL clothes with all kinds of quirky behavior/speech patterns. Some of these guys will go on and on about GW related topics because they really have nothing else to say. The last time I was in the shop a guy "joined" a conversation I was having and changed the topic to his notable victories over the last year or so. It was brutal because he has a habit of talking dead serious with short pauses between sentences: "So I rolled to penetrate..... the result was a 3.... blew up his vindicator..... my marines did a sweeping advance.... etc"

I'm the complete opposite of the gamer stereotype as are many others who have posted in this thread. A little about me: I'm 24, an HR Analyst supporting a client service team (so we are all very outgoing with good "phone" voices), go the FLGS after work so I'm usually dressed business casual, other hobbies include building scale models and cycling, and I have a GF who said and I quote: "I'm not white, I'm tan" - I facepalmed for several minutes after that....

People who play at gw stores are not a cross section of the wargaming community though.

Me, I'm a fireman, and I have reasonable personal hygiene.
One buddy is a chainsaw sculptor, another an accountant who is a roller derby ref at weekends. Not particularly stereotypical I don't think, though I did like Metallica in my younger days...

This series of posts on BOLS might be of use.

22, work as a stagehand. I used to look super nerdy with glasses, braces, and red hair (the nerd trinity) but I outgrew it. Nowadays I just look like a guy who didn't get the memo that rock is dead, with only my red hair remaining

As for the stereotype, it really depends on where you go. As with all stereotypes, there's usually a grain of truth to them. I've met my fair share of Great Unclean ones, extremely autistic teens (nothing against them, my brother is one), and neckbeards. I've also met ex military, local businessmen, white collar workers, and guys my age who are perfectly normal. Some stores had a high rate of "stereotypical" nerds, while at others they're almost nonexistent.

Thank you all for the input!

I showed my teacher this forum, and I'm sure he's somewhere among us right now, and he agrees that the demographic has changed, clearly evident by the statements made by you wonderful people.

I'm proud to be part of this community.

 gossipmeng wrote:

Other times I'll walk in and it is the land of misfit toys with massive people in generic metallica shirts or tiny people in XL clothes with all kinds of quirky behavior/speech patterns. Some of these guys will go on and on about GW related topics because they really have nothing else to say. The last time I was in the shop a guy "joined" a conversation I was having and changed the topic to his notable victories over the last year or so. It was brutal because he has a habit of talking dead serious with short pauses between sentences: "So I rolled to penetrate..... the result was a 3.... blew up his vindicator..... my marines did a sweeping advance.... etc"

Our hobby/hobbies have always had an element of those though - when I was a teenager working part time in a games store you would every so often have a guy come in and start relating the very interesting story of their last (or best, or whatever) session of roleplaying. "...and then a Dragon appeared!" almost like that guy from Robot Chicken. I'd also look into getting hold of or viewing a copy of Uber Goober.

Of my extended gaming group/s, not all play miniatures games, but one is a Landlord with a block of apartments, one is in IT, one is a train driver who used to be in IT, one a social worker who used to be in IT, 4 are teachers (all in different schools), one is a University tutor/lecturer, one works with electronics. I know other guys (who have moved) who are in IT security and a banker. I've known about a few of these people since high school, and all of them before they had their current jobs. Previous jobs for that group include working in games stores, at music importers, IT, in theatre & performance, at a printers, professional artist, software developer, videogame playtesters, data entry, warehousing, writer.. well, you get the idea.

My point there is that while, say, working in games stores may be seen as a stereotypical gamer-geek job, it was a transitional one for all of the (four) people in that list above who did it, all of whom have moved on to other jobs/careers since then.

Gaming attracts more than it's share of freaks and geeks because it's a naturally social past-time with a low barrier to entry. I was in the FLGS awhile back and ended up in a 30minute conversation with another guy about World of Warcraft. Now he wasn't a freak, but the fact is that the hobby acts as a social icebreaker for people who are more interested in "this sort of thing" in the same way that, say, football acts as the same sort of social lubricant as an example of other more "mainstream" interests.


Another thing to remember is that in the last 10 or so years, there's been a huge mainstreaming of things like World of Warcraft, video games, Tolkien, comics' super-heroes (thanks to an endless stream of superhero films) fantasy books cracking mainstream numbers and "nerd culture" thanks to Big Bang Theory - and so forth, it's almost become a series of linked countercultures with an incredible amount of crossover but with most participants wanting to remain feeling distinct from the others. Roleplayers, Fantasy and sci-fi gamers, Historicals guys, LARPers, Cosplayers, Trekkies, Star Wars freaks, videogamers, and then "music/style" based subcultures with a lot of crossover as well like Goths and Metalheads.

Hell, I present as perfectly "normal" at work or out and about in social situations, but my house is loaded with geek culture items. Which reminds me, I need to clean up a bit.

This is fun! I'm Joe, no really, I'm Joe. 34 married for 10 years with a three year old daughter. Currently I'm the Director of Youth Development and Healthy Living at the local YMCA: I run the child-care program, build/maintain community gardens, drive an old school bus to picks kids up from school, develop exercise programs for kids, feed hungry kids with grant monies....I have a Masters in Patient Counseling and a Masters in Divinity. Former hospital chaplain, former youth minister, former group home manager, former stay at home dad, and I'm a nerd. I like painting toy soldiers and have yet to play one friggin' game. I don't have any close friends who war-game or paint. I like the stereotypical "nerd" things like Star Wars, LoTRs, and read a crap ton of books. My wife won't go into the FLGS because the first time she went in (true story) the 5 guys in there wearing various black comic-book T-shirts or that one guy with the wolf shirt, saw that a female walked and and couldn't stop looking at her chest. In all fairness neither can I, but she turned around and said, "I'll never go back in there."

Wow, I thought MrMoustaffa was older.

I'm 36, trying to get stable employment as a teacher. I'm a runner and a rock climber. I'm into gaming much more for the painting and hobby side of things than the game itself.

The huge glasses are a stylistic choice. Never had braces, but trust me I wish I had.

I'm 25 years old and I work for an Environmental Health & Safety company working for their software division that develops and maintains software that authors and manages (M)SDS for clients around the world.

I game to to have fun with my models on the table, if I'm not having fun I try not to play. I paint to get an army on the table that looks decent 3 feet away, though I'm not the best painter.

I like long walks on the beach, pina coladas, getting caught in the rain. I'm not into yoga, and I have half a brain...

I'm 33 and I work in LOGISTICS!.

I work in an office, next to a heater.
Achievement = Unlocked

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
Wow, I thought MrMoustaffa was older.
I'm 36, trying to get stable employment as a teacher. I'm a runner and a rock climber. I'm into gaming much more for the painting and hobby side of things than the game itself.

36? I thought you were younger!

Name is Steve

Age:27

Was first introduced to 40k back when i was 12, walked into a comic shop to score some spawn comics. And i walked out with some used DA marines. I didnt know there where rules for the game so i did nothing with them for a few months.

Dropped 40k three years after that, at 16 got heavy into cars. I built and raced imports, started working on other peoples cars and made a good amount from it. at 23 i had my first baby sold off all the fast cars and needed a hobby. I picked up 40k because it allowed me to convert and paint how ever i wanted. So it filled the need to turn something into my own. I also ride bikes working on an older yamaha turning it into a bobber.

I do not play video games card games, i guess the only "nerd" thing i play is mini's. Im also a singer for a grindcore band and for a modern rock/heavy metal band.
I tried to join the army heart murmer killed it for me.....
I do wear big thick black framed glasses, contacts hurt my eyes. My wife likes the thick black nerdy glasses so i wears em!

Wumby wrote:This is fun! I'm Joe, no really, I'm Joe. 34 married for 10 years with a three year old daughter. Currently I'm the Director of Youth Development and Healthy Living at the local YMCA: I run the child-care program, build/maintain community gardens, drive an old school bus to picks kids up from school, develop exercise programs for kids, feed hungry kids with grant monies....I have a Masters in Patient Counseling and a Masters in Divinity. Former hospital chaplain, former youth minister, former group home manager, former stay at home dad, and I'm a nerd. I like painting toy soldiers and have yet to play one friggin' game. I don't have any close friends who war-game or paint. I like the stereotypical "nerd" things like Star Wars, LoTRs, and read a crap ton of books. My wife won't go into the FLGS because the first time she went in (true story) the 5 guys in there wearing various black comic-book T-shirts or that one guy with the wolf shirt, saw that a female walked and and couldn't stop looking at her chest. In all fairness neither can I, but she turned around and said, "I'll never go back in there."

A literal average Joe. That is both awesome and scary at the same time.

Mathieu Raymond wrote:Wow, I thought MrMoustaffa was older.
I'm 36, trying to get stable employment as a teacher. I'm a runner and a rock climber. I'm into gaming much more for the painting and hobby side of things than the game itself.

The huge glasses are a stylistic choice. Never had braces, but trust me I wish I had.

Wow, that's the first time I've heard that. Until I started growing a beard most people thought I looked like a teenager

Also OP, have you checked out that "show yourself" thread in off topic? That might be a good resource as well.

If you are looking to break the stereotype, military gamers like Blacksails and myself are probably the best examples. Not to say you can't be nerdy and military, but you get the point. Therewas an article some where about guys playing 40k in Afghanistan, one was a captain.

You might also want to define what you think the wargamming community is. Where I am from the historical gamers and fantasy/science fiction games rarely crossover.

Both are part of the wargamming community but attend separate conventions and stores. The historical gamers tend to be older and more professional. The fantasy/sci fi tend to be longer and more from the sciences and IT community.

I am in my 50's, a financial officer and participate in both communities but it is harder for me on the fantasy side as I do prefer playing with someone out of high school

From where I am, there is NO community except at a micro level and macro level.

There are the individual game communities.
There is the "hobby as a whole" nebulous hand-wavey community.
Then you have the SF fan community, some of whom are gamers.
As opposed to the gamer community, many of whom will watch/read SF, but don't consider themselves SF fans.

There is very little crossover between the individual game communities within the larger one. There is no cross-pollination, the games are all a monoculture.

Wow, excellent stuff guys.

I haven't received my essay yet, but I'll let those who are interested what the teacher graded me.

Can we keep this going? I'm loving all the sharing lol