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Man O War is the game for which I have most 'armies' (fleets) painted and the one that gave me the most enjoyment at the height of its fame and after. Clean but crunchy ruleset with great miniatures and easy-peasy terrain requirements.
Honourable mentions go to Necromunda, which is the game which got most of my RPG only friends playing tabletop for the first time. The campaign system is one of the best things GW ever did.
Also Battlefleet Gothic and Aeronautica. Stripped down historical fleet and fighter games with added 40K chrome, but they really work well.
But, if we're talking GW, then I would have to say Battlefleet Gothic is my favorite game they've made.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/09/24 23:22:11
"Through the darkness of future past, the magician longs to see.
One chants out between two worlds: Fire, walk with me." - Twin Peaks
"You listen to me. While I will admit to a certain cynicism, the fact is that I am a naysayer and hatchetman in the fight against violence. I pride myself in taking a punch and I'll gladly take another because I choose to live my life in the company of Gandhi and King. My concerns are global. I reject absolutely revenge, aggression, and retaliation. The foundation of such a method... is love. I love you Sheriff Truman." - Twin Peaks
I could never find opponents for BFG or Epic, so, though I think the rules are great, I'll leave those out. For games that I played regularly it would be a fight between Blood Bowl and Mordheim.
KirbyFan wrote:. If you are a seasoned wargamer you probably feel the same way as I do.
KirbyFan wrote:
I've only played 5th ed WH40K and 7th and 8th ed WHFB, and out of those I gotta go with 7th ed Fantasy. I miss my Bretonnians some times.
Er..... Obviously different conceptions of what 'seasoned' means then, are we talking about playing with some pepper on your minis and a sprinkling of thyme?
Ignoring OPs troll bait..
I hear good things about epic and would love to try it but unfortunately I haven't.
Necromunda isn't the best ruleset ever but the campaign rules are amazing imo.
Fafnir wrote: Oh, I certainly vote with my dollar, but the problem is that that is not enough. The problem with the 'vote with your dollar' response is that it doesn't take into account why we're not buying the product. I want to enjoy 40k enough to buy back in. It was my introduction to traditional games, and there was a time when I enjoyed it very much. I want to buy 40k, but Gamesworkshop is doing their very best to push me away, and simply not buying their product won't tell them that.
KirbyFan wrote: I truly think GW makes some of the most engaging, and downright best wargame rules.
Based on what?
I've seen plenty of well explained reasons as to why GW's rules are generally poor, but not one in favour of the rules themselves (plenty about the fluff, miniatures, and getting a game).
My Favorite Wargames rules? Probably X-Wing, and if that doesn't count then Hail Caesar.
My Favorite Games Workshop rules? Probably 2nd Ed 40k, it seems to be about the right scale for the game and ran quite well from what I can remember. I didn't like the abstraction that came in 3rd edition, and quite liked the wargear cards and stuff.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/09/25 10:44:18
1st/2nd edition Space Hulk. efficient, fun, and nasty. Right behind it is 2nd edition Space Marine (Epic). However, no one plays these due to lack of models, rules, and interest in my local area, so I play 40k.
I've only ever played 40k - bar one brief foray into Necromunda, where I ruined it by buying a redemptionist gang and burning everyone all the time...so I sold them again.
My favourite edition ruleset for 40k is 6th ed - as winning is almost completely random cinematic its more fun than games of I'm lining up my tanks against your tanks (5th ed) or even 3rd/4th ed's "I'm charging you, and everytime I kill something, I get to charge again until you're all dead" I'd say 2nd ed, but I like 2k games that you can finish in an evening, not a week.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/09/25 10:54:22
Its because ordinance is still a word.
However, firing ordinance at someone isn't nearly as threatening as firing ordnance at someone.
Ordinance is a local law, or bill, or other form of legislation.
Ordnance is high caliber explosives.
No 'I' in ordnance.
Don't drown the enemy in legislation, drown them in explosives.
KirbyFan wrote:. If you are a seasoned wargamer you probably feel the same way as I do.
KirbyFan wrote:
I've only played 5th ed WH40K and 7th and 8th ed WHFB, and out of those I gotta go with 7th ed Fantasy. I miss my Bretonnians some times.
Er..... Obviously different conceptions of what 'seasoned' means then, are we talking about playing with some pepper on your minis and a sprinkling of thyme?
I don't know how you managed this, but I said the stuff about 7th ed Fantasy and the Bretonnians. Not KirbyFan.
Shotgun wrote: I don't think I will ever understand the mentality of people that feel the need to record and post their butthurt on the interwebs.
I agree with whoever said "4th" ed LOTR, that rules system was fun, easy to learn and pretty difficult to break. Though fielding armies with lots of heavily armored infantry tended to slow the game right down.
KirbyFan wrote: Hello fellow wargamers! I have noticed some rather harsh (borderline hate speech if you ask me) criticism of GW's rule sets around here lately. You might have noticed this too. To take a break from the negativity and inspire some positive thoughts and feelings for a change, I thought it would be quite nice to have a thread discussing your favorite rule sets from our favorite company. Despite what has been argued in some of the threads around recently, I truly think GW makes some of the most engaging, and downright best wargame rules. Now I don't mean to turn this into a rant, but I find it disheartening when I hear people (who obviously have an agenda) chastise and bemoan the rules of games like 40k and WFB, and almost always do so without making any real solid or compelling arguments. It's tiresome and overall I feel it only brings about negativity within our community as a whole. If you are a seasoned wargamer you probably feel the same way as I do.
But moving on. Like I said I thought it would be fun to do the opposite for once and discuss our favorite GW games/rules, and importantly why we like those rule sets. I'll start. My favorite GW game of all time is Epic: Armageddon. I think it represents the scale of the battles perfectly in its rules. I haven't had a single gaming session that wasn't simultaneously fast paced and flavorful, all the while also being tactically and strategically satisfying. Small rules mechanics like the "blast marker" system affect the game in fundamental ways. Oh, and the turn sequence/unit activation process gives the game a very chess-like, "back and forth" flow. I would strongly recommend this game to anyone who enjoys massive, tactically engaging battles. Note that the game is much smaller scaled than 40k, in terms of miniatures.
Okay young'un (*sigh*) I can see where your coming from. Your new to the hobby (relatively so) and thus far have encountered no ruleset outside of GW. You have never been to an FLGS other than a GW. All your hobby life you have been fed GW propaganda about how their products are best, and all others are inferior. You have never commanded a tank, witnessed titans of steel clash, fought bitter wars against an insidious foe, or even witnessed the mechanical might and rending of steel that is a clash between Steamjacks. All you have ever done is push pieces around a board whilst being told to worship Kirby, god of the game of games. I used to be like you. Hell up until a few years ago I, to worshipped the very ground that GW existed upon. I grumbled not at the price hikes, and the shoddy rules. But then I encountered Dakka. I still worshipped GW, but I now did grumble about the prices. Then Worthy Games opened up last year. Now I had somewhere else I could go and play, a larger space where I could go in for a casual game and not have to pay. But more importantly was the fact that they stocked other games. It was to be my first experience beyond GW. Initially I was cautious, and little nervous. I would spend long hours staring at the steamjacks, looking them over and trying to find my favourite models. Eventually, one late, autumn day, I entered the store, having diverted there on my way home from college, and bought a box of Cryx Deatrippers. I had liked the look of these little frankenchickens for some time. I assembled them and instantly fell in love with them. Shortly afterwards I purchased a Warwitch Deneghra blister, and a Pistolwraith. I then went on to have my first game. I was soundly beaten, of course, but I found the rules new, and exciting. I enjoyed the game and whats more I found I enjoyed its fast pace far more than I had enjoyed the slow, druggery of GWs core games. And whats more it was much more cheaper-I could have a whole army for less than £100! And whats more the rules where so much more easier to learn and understand, and led to a faster flowing, quicker and more in depth and enjoyable game, with many cinematic finishes (such as many epic duels betwixt my Commander, Deneghra and my opponents commanders, or the time Dennie took down a Helljack all by herself). Shortly thereafter I purchased the rulebook and the components to complete my force, and since then I have never looked back.
I still do play warhammer every now and again but I have had my eyes opened now, to the world beyond the great GW. The veil of propaganda and Kirby worshipping has been lifted from my eyes and for that I am thankful, for I could now see the errors of GW's ways and the terrible rulesets that they produced, with their overpriced kits and terrible sculpting.
My point is that you are still young and inexperienced. My advice to you is to go out, buy a Warmahordes starter box and find some people to ply against. Or go for the one of the 2 player versions and get a friend involved. Play a few games and see what I mean. the 1 player boxes contain the rules, templates, etc along with an entire basic force including a commander and all you need to play. The 2 player box contains all this, but it has 2 armys and they are, nearly tournament level in fact. Its a good game and you could do hell of a lot worse. (Actually you already do-you play Warhammer and are a GW fanatic )
To help you I have included the links to the Wiki to help you choose your faction and a link to the official page for Privteer Press. I urge you to try this amazing game out
Back OT....
The best rules have to either be BFG (I am a massive fan) Mordheim/Necromunda (I loved the small scale skirmish games) and Epic/Warmaster (its how 40K/WHFB should have been)
I also do sometimes enjoy a game of Kill Team.
[EDIT] But seriously, GW does NOT produce a tactical game. Its just flyer spam in 40K and cannon/archer spam in fantasy. And no way is this game like chess. It has serious flaws and clunky rules and mechanics. It is skirmish scale game attempting to be a massed conflict game. Yes I do agree, sometimes it is fun to play, but tactical? there is no advantage in 40K to flanking your opponent-they will just shoot/assault you. And in fantasy the affects of units hitting into the flank/rear of others is horrendously underplayed. In real life this would often be the complete total and utter death of the unit, but in WHFB it is feather weight at best. And dont even get me started on the terrain rules......
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2013/09/25 11:23:28
Free from GW's tyranny and the hobby is looking better for it
DR:90-S++G+++M++B++I+Pww205++D++A+++/sWD146R++T(T)D+
Okay young'un (*sigh*) I can see where your coming from. Your new to the hobby (relatively so) and thus far have encountered no ruleset outside of GW. You have never been to an FLGS other than a GW. All your hobby life you have been fed GW propaganda about how their products are best, and all others are inferior. You have never commanded a tank, witnessed titans of steel clash, fought bitter wars against an insidious foe, or even witnessed the mechanical might and rending of steel that is a clash between Steamjacks. All you have ever done is push pieces around a board whilst being told to worship Kirby, god of the game of games.
I used to be like you. Hell up until a few years ago I, to worshipped the very ground that GW existed upon. I grumbled not at the price hikes, and the shoddy rules. But then I encountered Dakka. I still worshipped GW, but I now did grumble about the prices.
Then Worthy Games opened up last year. Now I had somewhere else I could go and play, a larger space where I could go in for a casual game and not have to pay. But more importantly was the fact that they stocked other games. It was to be my first experience beyond GW. Initially I was cautious, and little nervous. I would spend long hours staring at the steamjacks, looking them over and trying to find my favourite models.
Eventually, one late, autumn day, I entered the store, having diverted there on my way home from college, and bought a box of Cryx Deatrippers. I had liked the look of these little frankenchickens for some time. I assembled them and instantly fell in love with them. Shortly afterwards I purchased a Warwitch Deneghra blister, and a Pistolwraith. I then went on to have my first game. I was soundly beaten, of course, but I found the rules new, and exciting. I enjoyed the game and whats more I found I enjoyed its fast pace far more than I had enjoyed the slow, druggery of GWs core games. And whats more it was much more cheaper-I could have a whole army for less than £100! And whats more the rules where so much more easier to learn and understand, and led to a faster flowing, quicker and more in depth and enjoyable game, with many cinematic finishes (such as many epic duels betwixt my Commander, Deneghra and my opponents commanders, or the time Dennie took down a Helljack all by herself).
Shortly thereafter I purchased the rulebook and the components to complete my force, and since then I have never looked back.
I still do play warhammer every now and again but I have had my eyes opened now, to the world beyond the great GW. The veil of propaganda and Kirby worshipping has been lifted from my eyes and for that I am thankful, for I could now see the errors of GW's ways and the terrible rulesets that they produced, with their overpriced kits and terrible sculpting.
My point is that you are still young and inexperienced. My advice to you is to go out, buy a Warmahordes starter box and find some people to ply against. Or go for the one of the 2 player versions and get a friend involved. Play a few games and see what I mean. the 1 player boxes contain the rules, templates, etc along with an entire basic force including a commander and all you need to play. The 2 player box contains all this, but it has 2 armys and they are, nearly tournament level in fact. Its a good game and you could do hell of a lot worse. (Actually you already do-you play Warhammer and are a GW fanatic )
To help you I have included the links to the Wiki to help you choose your faction and a link to the official page for Privteer Press. I urge you to try this amazing game out
Back OT....
The best rules have to either be BFG (I am a massive fan) Mordheim/Necromunda (I loved the small scale skirmish games) and Epic/Warmaster (its how 40K/WHFB should have been)
I also do sometimes enjoy a game of Kill Team.
You see, as much as I dislike GW games (I play 40k and fantasy occasionally with friends and engage in the odd pick up game) and have been mostly converted to dystopian wars wholesale this post right here is why I can't get into warmachine. Is there some invisible ink text on page five that states
WARMACHINE favors the annoying forum poster that browbeats other users and people at their club into playing WARMACHINE and who always attempts to put down other gaming systems.
Seriously, because this seems to be the attitude that most warmachine players take. One of the warmachine players at my club was actually complaining the other day that dystopian wars was taking ex 40k players away form warmachine and every time you talk to them they try to get you to buy a starter box.
I get it, its a pyramid scheme, Privateer press pays you based on how many people you get to buy into warmachine, and they get paid on how many they get to buy a box and so on. That's the only logical explanation for the reason every warmachine player put the GW employee hard sell on you every time you mention it.
You see, as much as I dislike GW games (I play 40k and fantasy occasionally with friends and engage in the odd pick up game) and have been mostly converted to dystopian wars wholesale this post right here is why I can't get into warmachine. Is there some invisible ink text on page five that states
WARMACHINE favors the annoying forum poster that browbeats other users and people at their club into playing WARMACHINE and who always attempts to put down other gaming systems.
Seriously, because this seems to be the attitude that most warmachine players take. One of the warmachine players at my club was actually complaining the other day that dystopian wars was taking ex 40k players away form warmachine and every time you talk to them they try to get you to buy a starter box.
I get it, its a pyramid scheme, Privateer press pays you based on how many people you get to buy into warmachine, and they get paid on how many they get to buy a box and so on. That's the only logical explanation for the reason every warmachine player put the GW employee hard sell on you every time you mention it.
You do realise that he was being humorous and that his post should be read in a "tongue in cheek " tone, right?
The OP had a fanatic GW cult rant and he replied with a fanatic PP cult rant. Or at least that was how I interpreted it.
You do realise that he was being humorous and that his post should be read in a "tongue in cheek " tone, right?
The OP had a fanatic GW cult rant and he replied with a fanatic PP cult rant. Or at least that was how I interpreted it.
You're probably right, I was just venting a bit. Funnily enough I see many more PP cult rants than GW rants, yet no one ever rips PP cultists a new one on the internet, its like Warmachine is sacred or something
You're probably right, I was just venting a bit. Funnily enough I see many more PP cult rants than GW rants, yet no one ever rips PP cultists a new one on the internet, its like Warmachine is sacred or something
You have seen the light good sir, now come forth to our heavenly realm of total war.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/09/25 12:31:58
Free from GW's tyranny and the hobby is looking better for it
DR:90-S++G+++M++B++I+Pww205++D++A+++/sWD146R++T(T)D+
The best and funnest game released by GW was indeed
Epic
And i dont mean the crap released by Andy Chambers, I mean the game that came in the boxset that had the new Dark Angels dark green color scheme on it and it had those cool detatchement cards that were made out of thick cardboard. Remember? It had a ton of land raiders and rhinos and marines. Those games were AWESOME!!!
My buddies and I played that game so much, we just loved the idea of giving our units orders and the sweeping look of our battles. We eventually brought in the Eldar and Chaos into our games and there was SOOOO much stuff in White Dwarf EVERY month that was fun to add to our games....Man the good old days....
That was called Space Marine and lives on as NetEpic I believe.
My personal rules favs are Space Marine (hah!), Necromunda and Gorkamorka....
(and there is a soft spot somewhere in there for Man-o-war, but that is NOT because of the ruleset being good.. lol)
2+2=5 for sufficiently large values of 2.
Order of St Ursula (Sisters of Battle): W-2, L-1, T-1
Get of Freki (Space Wolves): W-3, L-1, T-1
Hive Fleet Portentosa (Nids/Stealers): W-6, L-4, T-0
Omega Marines (vanilla Space Marine): W-1, L-6, T-2
Waagh Magshak (Orks): W-4, L-0, T-1
A.V.P.D.W.: W-0, L-2, T-0
www.40korigins.com
bringing 40k Events to Origins Game Fair in Columbus, Oh. Ask me for more info!
KirbyFan wrote: Hello fellow wargamers! I have noticed some rather harsh (borderline hate speech if you ask me) criticism of GW's rule sets around here lately. You might have noticed this too. To take a break from the negativity and inspire some positive thoughts and feelings for a change, I thought it would be quite nice to have a thread discussing your favorite rule sets from our favorite company. Despite what has been argued in some of the threads around recently, I truly think GW makes some of the most engaging, and downright best wargame rules. Now I don't mean to turn this into a rant, but I find it disheartening when I hear people (who obviously have an agenda) chastise and bemoan the rules of games like 40k and WFB, and almost always do so without making any real solid or compelling arguments. It's tiresome and overall I feel it only brings about negativity within our community as a whole. If you are a seasoned wargamer you probably feel the same way as I do.
But moving on. Like I said I thought it would be fun to do the opposite for once and discuss our favorite GW games/rules, and importantly why we like those rule sets. I'll start. My favorite GW game of all time is Epic: Armageddon. I think it represents the scale of the battles perfectly in its rules. I haven't had a single gaming session that wasn't simultaneously fast paced and flavorful, all the while also being tactically and strategically satisfying. Small rules mechanics like the "blast marker" system affect the game in fundamental ways. Oh, and the turn sequence/unit activation process gives the game a very chess-like, "back and forth" flow. I would strongly recommend this game to anyone who enjoys massive, tactically engaging battles. Note that the game is much smaller scaled than 40k, in terms of miniatures.
Okay young'un (*sigh*) I can see where your coming from. Your new to the hobby (relatively so) and thus far have encountered no ruleset outside of GW. You have never been to an FLGS other than a GW. All your hobby life you have been fed GW propaganda about how their products are best, and all others are inferior. You have never commanded a tank, witnessed titans of steel clash, fought bitter wars against an insidious foe, or even witnessed the mechanical might and rending of steel that is a clash between Steamjacks. All you have ever done is push pieces around a board whilst being told to worship Kirby, god of the game of games.
I used to be like you. Hell up until a few years ago I, to worshipped the very ground that GW existed upon. I grumbled not at the price hikes, and the shoddy rules. But then I encountered Dakka. I still worshipped GW, but I now did grumble about the prices.
Then Worthy Games opened up last year. Now I had somewhere else I could go and play, a larger space where I could go in for a casual game and not have to pay. But more importantly was the fact that they stocked other games. It was to be my first experience beyond GW. Initially I was cautious, and little nervous. I would spend long hours staring at the steamjacks, looking them over and trying to find my favourite models.
Eventually, one late, autumn day, I entered the store, having diverted there on my way home from college, and bought a box of Cryx Deatrippers. I had liked the look of these little frankenchickens for some time. I assembled them and instantly fell in love with them. Shortly afterwards I purchased a Warwitch Deneghra blister, and a Pistolwraith. I then went on to have my first game. I was soundly beaten, of course, but I found the rules new, and exciting. I enjoyed the game and whats more I found I enjoyed its fast pace far more than I had enjoyed the slow, druggery of GWs core games. And whats more it was much more cheaper-I could have a whole army for less than £100! And whats more the rules where so much more easier to learn and understand, and led to a faster flowing, quicker and more in depth and enjoyable game, with many cinematic finishes (such as many epic duels betwixt my Commander, Deneghra and my opponents commanders, or the time Dennie took down a Helljack all by herself).
Shortly thereafter I purchased the rulebook and the components to complete my force, and since then I have never looked back.
I still do play warhammer every now and again but I have had my eyes opened now, to the world beyond the great GW. The veil of propaganda and Kirby worshipping has been lifted from my eyes and for that I am thankful, for I could now see the errors of GW's ways and the terrible rulesets that they produced, with their overpriced kits and terrible sculpting.
My point is that you are still young and inexperienced. My advice to you is to go out, buy a Warmahordes starter box and find some people to ply against. Or go for the one of the 2 player versions and get a friend involved. Play a few games and see what I mean. the 1 player boxes contain the rules, templates, etc along with an entire basic force including a commander and all you need to play. The 2 player box contains all this, but it has 2 armys and they are, nearly tournament level in fact. Its a good game and you could do hell of a lot worse. (Actually you already do-you play Warhammer and are a GW fanatic
This post made me think of this....
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
I started playing in 2nd edition 40K, have played a couple editions of Fantasy, and Necromunda. I consider the rules to include both the actual game mechanics as well as the codex books and the balance between forces.
- Fantasy had some issues with it that made me not like it as much as the other games.
- Necromunda wasn't balanced well and led to the issues with those in the lead staying in the lead for the rest of the campaign
- 2nd edition was too character heavy
- 3rd edition was the rush edition
- 4th edition was my favorite because it balanced hand to hand and ranged combat. The armies weren't horribly out of balance.
- 5th edition was kill the character (sgt) edition and I never played. They also broke my army (CSM).
- 6th edition is RANDOM!!! edition and I have yet to play. They also produced another crap codex for my army (CSM).
Overall, probably BFG. Versatile, characterful, and had real tactical depth. Necromunda and Blood Bowl have good systems for the actual game, but I'm not a fan of the post-game sequence in either.
"The 75mm gun is firing. The 37mm gun is firing, but is traversed round the wrong way. The Browning is jammed. I am saying "Driver, advance." and the driver, who can't hear me, is reversing. And as I look over the top of the turret and see twelve enemy tanks fifty yards away, someone hands me a cheese sandwich."
I smell a ..
in the OP. or at the very least a kiddie that has had the fanboy big bite them much worse than normal.
Anyway, i'll bite as there is some worthwhile discussion in this thread.
Are GW's rules the best out there? Of course not. I can think of half a dozen "real wargame" (that is to say historical) companies that prodce much better written material than does GW.....two that I have published material for.
As to my favorite GW rules it's a toss up. I prefer either Warhammer Quest (that box set was one of the last good deals that GW ever sold) or Rogue Trader at the stage of development it was circa late 1993. (that is to say right before the change over to 2nd edtion.)
TR
Former Kommandant, KZ Dakka
"I was Oldhammer before Oldhammer was cool!"
Probably Epic Space Marine, the Armaggedon rules are very tactically involved and just the right speed of play.
Have had tremendous fun with Necromunda and Mordheim; they are hilarious imbalanced in part, but if you have a strong GM/campaign director you can overcome those problems and play to the system's strengths. BFG is good but a little bit over-burdened with calculations, Bloodbowl also tremendous fun (although, for sports games in my opinion has now been surpassed by Dreadball which is tremendous fun and far more varied).
Necro wrote:Is this thread serious? You joined today and called yourself Kirbyfan then started this thread.
Even the OP's name is a trolling attempt.
Quite an amusing premise: If you have only played a single computer game, or variations of it, and then attempted to argue that it was the best game made you can imagine the responses.
)
CSM Undivided
CSM Khorne 
