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What is the advantage of taking part in GW's new painting competition? To me it just seems they want painters to do their work for free, without so much as a token prize.

Getting your painting displayed by GW is a very real example of a token prize.

Yup, large scale publicity.

Say I wish to start 345 Painting Studios, and I submit my models to the GW monthly painting competition and I win.

People see my work, google my name, and come across my painting service and I see a nice influx of people wanting my services. Free advertisement just led to a payday.

fishy bob wrote:
Yup, large scale publicity.

....

"large scale publicity"

Are you having a laugh? Please tell me this is joke. GW is neither large scale in the grand scheme of things nor do the participate in any outside advertising.

It's spec. Simple as. Frankly it's insulting.

http://antispec.com/
http://www.nospec.com/

 Grimtuff wrote:

fishy bob wrote:
Yup, large scale publicity.

....

"large scale publicity"

Are you having a laugh? Please tell me this is joke. GW is neither large scale in the grand scheme of things nor do the participate in any outside advertising.

It's spec. Simple as. Frankly it's insulting.

http://antispec.com/
http://www.nospec.com/

That I do not disagree with. But people are partaking in these competition to get pics of their armies out there. I'm not saying that Games Workshops angle, but I would imagine it's the one of the participants.

fishy bob wrote:

 Grimtuff wrote:

fishy bob wrote:
Yup, large scale publicity.

....

"large scale publicity"

Are you having a laugh? Please tell me this is joke. GW is neither large scale in the grand scheme of things nor do the participate in any outside advertising.

It's spec. Simple as. Frankly it's insulting.

http://antispec.com/
http://www.nospec.com/

That I do not disagree with. But people are partaking in these competition to get pics of their armies out there. I'm not saying that Games Workshops angle, but I would imagine it's the one of the participants.

Might wanna read the rules of it. That admittedly the OP unhelpfully did not put out there (http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?type=article&aId=31700004a). GW choose the model. It is NOT for models/armies of your choosing. You have to spend £40 to even enter this competition (this month).

 Grimtuff wrote:

fishy bob wrote:

 Grimtuff wrote:

fishy bob wrote:
Yup, large scale publicity.

....

"large scale publicity"

Are you having a laugh? Please tell me this is joke. GW is neither large scale in the grand scheme of things nor do the participate in any outside advertising.

It's spec. Simple as. Frankly it's insulting.

http://antispec.com/
http://www.nospec.com/

That I do not disagree with. But people are partaking in these competition to get pics of their armies out there. I'm not saying that Games Workshops angle, but I would imagine it's the one of the participants.

Might wanna read the rules of it. That admittedly the OP unhelpfully did not put out there (http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?type=article&aId=31700004a). GW choose the model. It is NOT for models/armies of your choosing. You have to spend £40 to even enter this competition (this month).

Well, that's a different story then. I thought we were talking about getting your army in "What's New Today" or White Dwarf. I hadn't even heard of this new thing.

I wonder how well it'll pan out...

Bragging rights. If my friend told me his model was *the* image that GW used to sell, say, deathwing knights, I think I'd actually piss myself. That's some serious nerd kudos.

 Grimtuff wrote:
"large scale publicity"

Are you having a laugh? Please tell me this is joke. GW is neither large scale in the grand scheme of things nor do the participate in any outside advertising.

In the grand scheme of things GW are tiny. But the kind of person who will enter and win this competition doesn't care about the grand scheme of things. All that matters is the small scheme of GW customers that are likely to pay for commission painting. And that's a group that is already familiar with GW and probably browses the new releases. So within that context having work on GW's website is large scale publicity.

So you do the work and GW gets to use it as free advertiseing?

Seems lame.

Right, comparison time!

PP do a similar contest every other month in their magazine, No Quarter.

PP, like GW, decide what the theme is. However the contest lacks all the legal-ese of GW and.... Shock! Horror! Actually offers a cash prize, usually a $50 gift voucher for their online store. Whilst this is also spec to a certain extent, as everyone who does not win gets nothing. But, have a read of the GW legal mumbo jumbo. They own EVERY picture that is submitted to be used as they see fit and we have no cash prize, just a patronizing pat on the head from papa GW.

also, once GW use that pic, you can no longer use it yourself, which means if you offer a painting service, you cant use that pic on your own website, as GW will now own that picture of your model

Having your work in a national magazine.

Why do people submit writing or photos to magazines? People submit work to magazines all the time. They like to see there work in a national publication. It's not exactly something new. The BBC ask for photos every week on a theme for there website with no prize and people do it.

If I was any good at painting I would be tempted to try it and would be proud if my work was chosen.

 fynn wrote:
also, once GW use that pic, you can no longer use it yourself, which means if you offer a painting service, you cant use that pic on your own website, as GW will now own that picture of your model

GW rules on the contest wrote:6. By submitting an entry, you retain ownership of the rights in your photograph, but give GW the right to use (and adapt as required) your photograph for the purposes of this competition.

Or not, as the case may be...

 Grimtuff wrote:
PP, like GW, decide what the theme is. However the contest lacks all the legal-ese of GW and.... Shock! Horror! Actually offers a cash prize, usually a $50 gift voucher for their online store. Whilst this is also spec to a certain extent, as everyone who does not win gets nothing. But, have a read of the GW legal mumbo jumbo. They own EVERY picture that is submitted to be used as they see fit and we have no cash prize, just a patronizing pat on the head from papa GW.

I'm not saying that GW is offering a good deal, I'm just disputing the idea that winning this contest doesn't give you large-scale publicity. It might be small-scale compared to the world economy as a whole, but within our niche hobby it really is large-scale.

 fynn wrote:
also, once GW use that pic, you can no longer use it yourself, which means if you offer a painting service, you cant use that pic on your own website, as GW will now own that picture of your model

Honestly, so what? Take a different picture of the model and use that one, and label it "as featured on GW's website {link}". This isn't like artistic photography where signing away the rights to an image means something, all you're losing is a few seconds of work.

 Grimtuff wrote:
They own EVERY picture that is submitted to be used as they see fit and we have no cash prize, just a patronizing pat on the head from papa GW.

Not true.

"6. By submitting an entry, you retain ownership of the rights in your photograph, but give GW the right to use (and adapt as required) your photograph for the purposes of this competition. "

 Steve steveson wrote:
Having your work in a national magazine.

It's for the website
GW choose the model. In this case an expensive monster kit. You know this trend will continue.
The above kit is all you can enter. Nothing more.

Roll up guys! Spend £40 to maybe get your model on the website!

Ok. Still, as I said, the BBC do the same. Many websites do.

If people don't want to do it they don't have too. Clearly enough people do.

 fynn wrote:
also, once GW use that pic, you can no longer use it yourself, which means if you offer a painting service, you cant use that pic on your own website, as GW will now own that picture of your model

False, both legally (as the photographer retains the copyright since this is not a work-for-hire) and per the terms of the competition:

6. By submitting an entry, you retain ownership of the rights in your photograph, but give GW the right to use (and adapt as required) your photograph for the purposes of this competition.

well in that case gw have changed that, as for many years, they would claim ownership of any pics sent to em, even if they wasnt used.
and they used to state that on the T&C's on there web site

 Grimtuff wrote:
Roll up guys! Spend £40 to maybe get your model on the website!

You're only entering the picture, not the model. And people who enter this contest are going to be in one of two categories:

1) People who are buying the cool new model anyway and think it would be fun to enter a painting contest. They have no hope of winning*, but all they've spent to enter is a minute or two to take a cell phone picture and send it in.

2) Professional commission painters who will enter the contest and then sell the model for more than £40 (whether individually on ebay or as part of a commission project they were going to paint it for anyway) even if they lose.

Either way it doesn't make any sense to treat the £40 as an entry fee.


*At least in a fair contest. There's always the chance that GW picks some 10 year old's model to give their most important customer base the illusion that they can paint to professional standards and have a hope of winning. Got to keep them buying somehow!

 Peregrine wrote:

 Grimtuff wrote:
PP, like GW, decide what the theme is. However the contest lacks all the legal-ese of GW and.... Shock! Horror! Actually offers a cash prize, usually a $50 gift voucher for their online store. Whilst this is also spec to a certain extent, as everyone who does not win gets nothing. But, have a read of the GW legal mumbo jumbo. They own EVERY picture that is submitted to be used as they see fit and we have no cash prize, just a patronizing pat on the head from papa GW.

I'm not saying that GW is offering a good deal, I'm just disputing the idea that winning this contest doesn't give you large-scale publicity. It might be small-scale compared to the world economy as a whole, but within our niche hobby it really is large-scale.

Exactly my point. I didn't mean the models were gonna make the evening news obviously (or not so obviously, somehow ). But within wargaming, and especially the 40K/Fantasy crowd, the GW website is a large channel.

 fynn wrote:
also, once GW use that pic, you can no longer use it yourself, which means if you offer a painting service, you cant use that pic on your own website, as GW will now own that picture of your model

Edit: Ninja'd. As mentioned already, that's caca.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Grimtuff wrote:
Roll up guys! Spend £40 to maybe get your model on the website!

You're only entering the picture, not the model. And people who enter this contest are going to be in one of two categories:

1) People who are buying the cool new model anyway and think it would be fun to enter a painting contest. They have no hope of winning*, but all they've spent to enter is a minute or two to take a cell phone picture and send it in.

2) Professional commission painters who will enter the contest and then sell the model for more than £40 (whether individually on ebay or as part of a commission project they were going to paint it for anyway) even if they lose.

Either way it doesn't make any sense to treat the £40 as an entry fee.


*At least in a fair contest. There's always the chance that GW picks some 10 year old's model to give their most important customer base the illusion that they can paint to professional standards and have a hope of winning. Got to keep them buying somehow!

True, but you cannot deny they're using this as a vehicle to shill their latest big kit. It costs £40 to enter for me. Hey there Australia, how much will it cost you to enter?

 Grimtuff wrote:
True, but you cannot deny they're using this as a vehicle to shill their latest big kit

I'm not. Obviously it's a marketing effort by GW and it's a comment on the sad state of things right now that they don't include even a token cash/model prize. But let's not exaggerate how bad it is just to make a point.

Hey there Australia, how much will it cost you to enter?

Zero, because as I said the people that will enter this contest will already buy it regardless of the contest and/or will sell it for standard commission once they're done. The total cost to enter the contest is the time spent taking a picture and sending it in.

Well if you are a commission painter then you could probably sell the hydra (or whatever kit that month) at some kind of a profit or breakeven.

It isn't about publicity and new clients seeking you out, but instead you could reference it on your website. A gallery of previous work is a great thing for a painter, but awards and recognition can establish credibility.

I do agree that a prize of some sort would be great.... even a $25 voucher...

This is why I would never submit photos of my models to GW's Flickr pool or similar. There's something in the legalese about them owning it and getting to use it for publications. Imagine if they took the best of those submissions and put some in a codex and paid you nothing? Or barely gave a credit? Dakka offers better painting competitions than that. It just shows how cheap GW are.

It's ass. There's almost nothing in it for people submitting stuff other than giving GW a free pool of photos to publish.

How they can prove the people submitting photos own them I don't know, seems important if they then start using them.

This isn't the first forum thread I've read on this topic and I'm still not sure why the ruckus. It's obviously a "new" method for GW to hopefully move new product more quickly than they are. It's not surprising. A for profit company attempting to figure out a new way to boost sales. Is it lame that "winners" get nothing other than to say, GW picked my entry as a winner. Well, yeah it is. (At least when I submitted an article for a regional magazine, I received a $50 Target card.) Still, I see the appeal in it. I don't game, but I like to model/paint. If this month's comp has a model that I think will be fun/cool to paint then I'll buy it, paint it, and trade it afterwards on dakka. Don't care that I "won" anything or not. But that's just me. It's really not that noteworthy.

Also a great way to clear overstock...