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My gaming group has recently discovered warmachine. I have trollbloods and the only other one of us who has a force yet got Cygnar(starter pack, long gunners+UA, and scouts). We played a game and I ran Borka some champs and some warbeasts with whelps. Long story short borka's wind wall spell wiped the floor with the humans. Now my friend wants to get some gun mages or jacks that shoot lighting to bypass this.

So how do I beat these? Also what are some general tactics for trolls vs cygnar?

You are still in a fairly good place with Borka and champs. Cygnar has a problem with lots of high armor and pow10 gun mages don't deliver against heavy infantry.
Janissa is a good choice for any troll army since those walls she creates grant cover, providing a very good defense bonus even against gun mages.
You might want to try warders since they are just as defensive but fewer points. You could possibly fit in more high arm, 8health bodies.

Gun mages? Charge them. Don't try to out shoot them you'll lose every time, they'll either out range you with Snipe or use Thunderbolt to push you out of objectives. But they're useless in melee, unless he's running eCaine, then they're okay in melee.

Lightning shooting jacks? That's either the Thunderhead or the Storm Strider. The Thunderhead counter with a big 'jack killing heavy beast. Do not allow infantry to come within walking distance of the Thunderhead or they will die. The Storm Strider, you'll need to attack it with a reach weapon or you won't be able to hit it, but in the long run it's fairly fragile so killing it won't be a problem. the Stormclad also falls under this, get off the charge and hope to cripple his sword. Stormclads are awesome.

Bombers love gunmages. pow8 blasts kill arm 11 models on anything but snake eyes.

Get a bomber, put Snipe on it from an Impaler, walk up 5", toss 2 4" AOEs in the general direction of the Gunmages and laugh maniacally while doing so. Thats a 17" threat range plus/minus scatter. Higher threat than the gun mages actual pistol has(unless they also use Snipe)

 Grey Templar wrote:
(unless they also use Snipe)

Which is a win for the guy playing the bomber, because they'll be doing bugger all damage to it in retaliation if they are using Snipe.

Indeed. Dice minus 8 ain't doing jack to anything with a damage grid or spiral.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Indeed. Dice minus 8 ain't doing jack to anything with a damage grid or spiral.

Especially combined with the stone (you did bring the stone playing trolls right?) and your ability to regenerate.

 22cthulu wrote:
Gun mages? Charge them. Don't try to out shoot them you'll lose every time, they'll either out range you with Snipe or use Thunderbolt to push you out of objectives. But they're useless in melee, unless he's running eCaine, then they're okay in melee.

Lightning shooting jacks? That's either the Thunderhead or the Storm Strider. The Thunderhead counter with a big 'jack killing heavy beast. Do not allow infantry to come within walking distance of the Thunderhead or they will die. The Storm Strider, you'll need to attack it with a reach weapon or you won't be able to hit it, but in the long run it's fairly fragile so killing it won't be a problem. the Stormclad also falls under this, get off the charge and hope to cripple his sword. Stormclads are awesome.

Firefly has electro leap as well. Plus, keep in mind that he is running champions. That thunderhead will hurt them but its going to be hard pressed to take out all those health boxes in one shot. Stone scribes however, are very vulnerable to it. A mauler could easily smash the thunderhead or stormclad though.

with all his lightning, be prepared to cry if he brings eL'Nemo

KingKodo wrote:

 22cthulu wrote:
Gun mages? Charge them. Don't try to out shoot them you'll lose every time, they'll either out range you with Snipe or use Thunderbolt to push you out of objectives. But they're useless in melee, unless he's running eCaine, then they're okay in melee.

Lightning shooting jacks? That's either the Thunderhead or the Storm Strider. The Thunderhead counter with a big 'jack killing heavy beast. Do not allow infantry to come within walking distance of the Thunderhead or they will die. The Storm Strider, you'll need to attack it with a reach weapon or you won't be able to hit it, but in the long run it's fairly fragile so killing it won't be a problem. the Stormclad also falls under this, get off the charge and hope to cripple his sword. Stormclads are awesome.

Firefly has electro leap as well. Plus, keep in mind that he is running champions. That thunderhead will hurt them but its going to be hard pressed to take out all those health boxes in one shot. Stone scribes however, are very vulnerable to it. A mauler could easily smash the thunderhead or stormclad though.

And once the Gun mages are out of the way the Bomber's bombs are still pow16 attacks. That will put a dent in any Cygnar jack. Plus its still a Dire Troll, its fist are only one less pow than its bombs.

Thanks for all the feedback guys. I was using a bomber in the game actually he managed to kill a mini warlock and beat up a light jack. Since wind wall works both ways I got few opportunities to throw bombs though.
As for the warders what are they like? I only have the army book not the expansions
Thanks again.

You can always activate the Bomber first, throw his bombs, and then put up wind wall. Order of activation is important.

Problem is Wind Wall has a range of Self...

So?

Borka just activates after the Bomber has tossed his bombs.

Seems obvious enough. What about warders what do they do? I think they have.5hp or something but dont know

Quite a lot of cygnar units fall apart when they end up in melee.

 sing your life wrote:
Quite a lot of cygnar units fall apart when they end up in melee.

That is pretty much any shooting or support unit, though. It is not unique to Cygnar.

 Mordekiem wrote:

 sing your life wrote:
Quite a lot of cygnar units fall apart when they end up in melee.

That is pretty much any shooting or support unit, though. It is not unique to Cygnar.

And while they may fall apart when hit, some Cygnar units also hit like a brick with a P+S 14 and a P+S 15 attack in melee if they get the charge off, and if these attacks are directed against a jack or something there is a decent chance that all the P+S 14 ones auto hit. That is purely with the units attachments, before we even get into using other units/casters to buff them. So yeah, they die, but they hit hard.

I'm just starting Trolls (Yeah for yet another faction) and I've found all the hype about Fennblades to be absolutely correct. Lead with a few Fenns first turn and give them the option---either shoot the leaders and give me a Vengeance or ignore them at your peril. If they shoot/kill one, you;


Vengeance 3"
Run 12"
Reach 2"

That's 17" of threat and really you just need to tie them up and it's fairly easy to do this with reach (Usually grab a couple). You don't have to charge everything against a gunline---usually just running and tying them up is enough.


Of course, I like fast locks that speed up my army---so they usually have Mirage or Quicken on them for even more speed.



That said, if you really want to run Borka, Iron Flesh Boomhowlers with super tough----well is super tough for Cygnar to deal with. Warders and other high armor units may work---but just make sure you block the push ability of Mages--as they can just Thunderbolt you back (Or get a knockdown) when you get close and frustrate the hell out of you.

Also the Stone Scribe Chronicler story Tale of Mist is a good one for a unit of Fennblades. If you're running Borka and Iron Flesh them, they become Def 17 to everything save 2nd attacks and initials that are from a casual walk up, assuming they have the UA. That makes them a ton more survivable.