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Hello all,

A couple of quick questions about our dear friend, Psychic Shriek.

Psychic Shriek is a Witchfire power with a range of 12". Roll 3D6 and subtract the targets Leadership- the target suffers a number of wounds equal to the result. Armour and Cover saves cannot be taken against Wounds caused by Psychic Shriek.


1- Psychic Shriek is a Witchfire power and so it requires a roll To Hit, based on BS. This one is the simpler question and I cannot imagine this one can be argued against.

2- If I roll a '6' to Hit, am I entitled to Precision Shots?
If any of your character's shots roll 6 to hit, these are Precision Shots. Wounds from Precision Shots are allocated against a model (or models) of your choice in the target unit, so long as it is in range, rather than following the normal rules for Wound allocation.

Based on the 2 rules interacting, I believe that I am required to make a roll To Hit with my Witchfire. If this roll is a 6, I would then roll 3D6, subtract Leadership, and allocate *all* of the Wounds as I see fit.
The reason I ask is because this seems monstrously powerful. Is this a correct interpretation of the rules?

Many thanks

I don't think it works in the same way.

Focussed witchfire can be on a specific squad member - but you have to get 5 or less on your psychic to choose the guy you want. Its why no one uses the eldar power mind war anymore if they can help it.

I think witchfire is more 'remove the nearest model' as otherwise, what would be the point of focussed witchfire?

Thats my 2p anyway - if I'm wrong Mind War just got better

Witchfire requires a roll to hit, yes, howeer if you miss then you still move on to the next step anyway - the roll to hit does nothing for this power.

THe focussed witchfire powers also do not folllow normal shooting rules, as they affect a single model - so precision shot would have no effect.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Witchfire requires a roll to hit, yes, howeer if you miss then you still move on to the next step anyway - the roll to hit does nothing.

Um, what?

Unless I'm missing something, this power does not have a shooting profile - so if you miss, what stops you from still performing the 3D6 roll against leadership?

For example MH - if you miss (even automatically) you still apply the other effects of the power.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Unless I'm missing something, this power does not have a shooting profile - so if you miss, what stops you from still performing the 3D6 roll against leadership?

The fact that your attack missed, obviously. It's treated as assault weapon.

Yes, and an assault weapon has a defined profile. This also has an additional effect of the Leadership check

Again, see MH for a very similar power, that was FAQd that the parts that did not rely on the roll to hit still take place. THe 3D6 does not rely on a roll to hit - the roll to hit is essentially rolling a 5 or less on the psychic check.

1. Psychic Shriek is a witchfire power, telling you that your psyker must use it in the shooting phase in lieu of a shooting attack. Since the Psychic Shriek does not have have a weapons profile, it does not need a "to hit" or "to wound" roll. Instead, you resolve the power as stated once successfully cast (roll 3d6, subtract leadership to generate number of wounds caused). Witchfires without weapon profiles do not require to hit rolls because they do not follow the traditional shooting rules (i.e. hemorrhage, puppet master)

My point was that, even if you do "roll to hit", the non-weapon effects still occur, as they have no reliance on hitting.

If psychic shriek was also assault D6, S1, AP-, in addition to the current rules, you could miss with every one of the D6, and the additional effects would still occur.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Witchfire requires a roll to hit, yes, howeer if you miss then you still move on to the next step anyway - the roll to hit does nothing for this power.

THe focussed witchfire powers also do not folllow normal shooting rules, as they affect a single model - so precision shot would have no effect.

Can you clarify this post with RAW support.

Focused witchfire uses all the rules for normal witchfire, with some extras. So it would be fired as an assault weapon as well.

Fragile - already done, further down in the thread

NOthing about the additional effect requires you to have succeeded on your roll to-hit. Nothing. Only shooting weapons have this requirement, or close combat attacks, and the additional effect is neither.

p69 wrote:If the witchfire does not list a subtype,or simply describes itself as a psychic shooting attack, use the rules given above to resolve it. If it has one of the following subtypes, use the rules for that subtype.

Focused Witchfires don't even roll to hit in the first place, since the FW subtype never lists that as a requirement. (it is a requirement in the "rules given above")
Which also means they can't precision shot.

edit: I'm a derp - irrelevant citation. Ignore this post.

Witchfire* Psychic Powers are shooting weapons.. So if the 3d6 is an "additional" effect of Psychic Shriek, are you saying that the "original" effect is just a Range: 12" Strength: 0 AP: 2 Assault 1 power?

Psychic Shriek rolls to hit- You can miss. This isn't Miniwargaming.com where we just pass the test and make the opponent roll 3d6 or even Hallucinate people from each other's Deployment zones just because it makes sense. Psychic Shriek also follows the rules for Precision Shots, if you roll a 6. That means all those wounds go to a character (LoS accordingly).

OP, Psychic Shriek is great but not as powerful as you think even with Precision Shots. The roll to hit part has thrown a kink in my plans many a time.

It drives me insane to be rolling to hit with my Psychic Shriek (I always have at least Ahriman or someone else using it), and then watching my opponent just flat out ignore that he must roll to hit.

 Brometheus wrote:
Psychic Powers are shooting weapons.. So if the 3d6 is an "additional" effect of Psychic Shriek, are you saying that the "original" effect is just a Range: 12" Strength: 0 AP: 2 Assault 1 power?

Psychic Shriek rolls to hit- You can miss. This isn't Miniwargaming.com where we just pass the test and make the opponent roll 3d6 or even Hallucinate people from each other's Deployment zones just because it makes sense. Psychic Shriek also follows the rules for Precision Shots, if you roll a 6. That means all those wounds go to a character (LoS accordingly).

OP, Psychic Shriek is great but not as powerful as you think even with Precision Shots. The roll to hit part has thrown a kink in my plans many a time.

Page 69 disagrees - Focused Witchfires don't roll to hit.

edit: NM - Shriek is a Witchfire, not a Focused Witchfire.

Fair enough- but I'm talking about Shriek- and only Shriek.

And Shriek is a Focused Witchfire. Meaning it does not roll to hit.
edit: I'm a derp.

It's just a Witchfire.

Yeah, just went to correct myself. Nevermind.

It's cool, man

Since Psychic Shriek is a Witchfire, and manifesting Witchfires counts as firing an assault weapon, they have to roll To Hit, and could get a 6. I think they would benefit from Precision Shots.

The Shriek just has a different manner of causing wounds, rather than rolling vs. majority Toughness of the target unit.

Wounds from Precision shots are allocated against a model/models of the firer's choice in the target unit rather than the normal mode of wound allocation. The fancy pants target model of a Precision Shot, if a character, can always use Look Out Sir. And it's only a 12" range power; not that overpowered, and most of the time it only does 2 or 3 wounds (average).

 Lord Krungharr wrote:
Since Psychic Shriek is a Witchfire, and manifesting Witchfires counts as firing an assault weapon, they have to roll To Hit, and could get a 6. I think they would benefit from Precision Shots.

The Shriek just has a different manner of causing wounds, rather than rolling vs. majority Toughness of the target unit.

Wounds from Precision shots are allocated against a model/models of the firer's choice in the target unit rather than the normal mode of wound allocation. The fancy pants target model of a Precision Shot, if a character, can always use Look Out Sir. And it's only a 12" range power; not that overpowered, and most of the time it only does 2 or 3 wounds (average).

Unless you're playing a 10yr old in a shop and he goes to cast psychic shriek...and gets 17 on 3 dice!
Bye bye, my wolf guard.

I don't like Psychic Shriek. My penchant for rolling 1's and 2's does not help in this case.

Mozzamanx wrote:
Hello all,

A couple of quick questions about our dear friend, Psychic Shriek.

Psychic Shriek is a Witchfire power with a range of 12". Roll 3D6 and subtract the targets Leadership- the target suffers a number of wounds equal to the result. Armour and Cover saves cannot be taken against Wounds caused by Psychic Shriek.


1- Psychic Shriek is a Witchfire power and so it requires a roll To Hit, based on BS. This one is the simpler question and I cannot imagine this one can be argued against.

2- If I roll a '6' to Hit, am I entitled to Precision Shots?
If any of your character's shots roll 6 to hit, these are Precision Shots. Wounds from Precision Shots are allocated against a model (or models) of your choice in the target unit, so long as it is in range, rather than following the normal rules for Wound allocation.

Based on the 2 rules interacting, I believe that I am required to make a roll To Hit with my Witchfire. If this roll is a 6, I would then roll 3D6, subtract Leadership, and allocate *all* of the Wounds as I see fit.
The reason I ask is because this seems monstrously powerful. Is this a correct interpretation of the rules?

Many thanks

But where does it tell you how many attacks Psychic Shriek has? It is treated as an assault weapon. Is it Assault 1? 2? 3? Infinite? How do you know how many dice to roll. Also, if they hit, what is their strength? It is only the hit that rolls a six that gets to be directed. This attack has no listed strength, ap value, or even number of attacks. The 3d6 on leadership is an effect that triggers simply off of targeting a unit and does not seem to be tied to a to hit roll. As such, it should not be able to be a precision shot.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Put it another way, how would you play a weapon with this profile:

range 12" S 0 AP - Assault 0 Psychic shriek

Psychic Shriek: Unit targeted by this weapon takes a leadership roll on 3d6...

Having a profile or not doesn't matter- it's a Witchfire. If you miss, you don't apply anything. If you hit, the "wounds" are determined by what your opponent rolls.

 Brometheus wrote:
Having a profile or not doesn't matter- it's a Witchfire. If you miss, you don't apply anything. If you hit, the "wounds" are determined by what your opponent rolls.

But how many "to hit" rolls does psychic shriek require? It has no weapons profile. Why could it not be assault 2 or 3 and if any dice generates a hit apply the results? All other witchfire powers that require clear "to hit" rolls have a profile (i.e. Smite, Life Leech). I contend that the "to hit" roll is not required for psychic shriek because it does not have a weapons profile. It essentially automatically hits and you then roll 3d6 and subtract leadership to determine the number of wounds caused.

If it's a Witchfire, it requires a roll to hit. Saying that roll is not required because the power has no shooting profile is getting close to making up rules. We would have to find in the rulebook where weapons without profiles automatically "hit", or, more importantly, why Witchfires would automatically hit before either of us can argue with each other more.

 Brometheus wrote:
If it's a Witchfire, it requires a roll to hit. Saying that roll is not required because the power has no shooting power is getting close to making up rules. We would have to find in the rulebook where weapons without profiles automatically "hit". Or, more importantly, why Witchfires would automatically hit.

It's not about automatically hitting.
It's about the effect on a miss. Since there's no weapon profile does it matter if you miss?

Sure does- The Psychic Power did not hit the target.

Let me be clear- You guys are saying that you understand the requirement for the Roll to Hit in the Witchfire paragraph, but that you will apply the effects of Psychic Shriek whether you hit or not? Correct me if I misunderstand, please.

I'll leave this one be- I don't think I can effectively argue for my side- Maybe that's why I'm not doing well in my Logic class!

This sounds like another case of intent blind rules-lawyering by Rigeld and Nos.