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While it may be a long shot, they should give the folks at popehat a go. They love fighting against 800 lb gorillas as the little guy. They also do the work pro-bono generally.

Popehat works on generally CONUS based 1st amendment issues. far cry from this, really.

 Bolognesus wrote:
Popehat works on generally CONUS based 1st amendment issues. far cry from this, really.

I'm not sure how much legal standing the 1st amendment has in a contract issue between two parties in the UK but I'd put it slightly above the Star Trek Federation Charter.

 PsychoticStorm wrote:

They have become the single worst thing the Wargaming industry has ever faced.

I'm beginning to think this..

Really.. if I were owner of BoW I would just tell GW to Please don't bypass the language filter like this. Reds8n off, and just stop covering their products completely. The problem is, as Zweischneid says, that as the most popular company they produce the most hits for website and so companies are forced to crawl through the broken glass to grovel and accept their crappy deals.

I'm all for being principled however, and it's not like they are going to be able to give an unbiased review on new GW products when the producing company has been behaving in this way.

GW the only games company that doesn't like free good publicity. Yet seemingly do everything in their power to generate all kinds of negative publicity

On the other hand, they've been messed about for quite some time by those posts and the only particularly negative stuff I've heard them say in their videos are about the Centurions and the Lord of Skulls.

Lets be honest those models deserve it

 warboss wrote:

 Bolognesus wrote:
Popehat works on generally CONUS based 1st amendment issues. far cry from this, really.

I'm not sure how much legal standing the 1st amendment has in a contract issue between two parties in the UK but I'd put it slightly above the Star Trek Federation Charter.

my point, yeah.

sigh... gonna make another GW order tonight. Also going to update my resume to send to GW...
Can't wait to get home from work and hang out in my GW man room to work on my GW model Stormlord, and three other Baneblades, while I think about the organiztaion of my up and coming Cadian Army...
Going bin some warmachine, or whatever they're called, models that someone gave me... need more room for my GW stuff.
Can't wait to build those nifty Centurians I just bought.

Warren is on some hard snuff if he thinks BoW touched even a fraction of the number of views/gamers Kotaku, etc can generate.

Following in footsteps...wow.

However, GW clamping down is an cruel move.

 Kelly502 wrote:
sigh... gonna make another GW order tonight. Also going to update my resume to send to GW...
Can't wait to get home from work and hang out in my GW man room to work on my GW model Stormlord, and three other Baneblades, while I think about the organiztaion of my up and coming Cadian Army...
Going bin some warmachine, or whatever they're called, models that someone gave me... need more room for my GW stuff.
Can't wait to build those nifty Centurians I just bought.

Assuming such a blatantly trollish post must have some purpose behind it other than to waste your time writing it and (more importantly) mine reading it, I can only think it must be a comprehension failure on my part, any chance of a little more clarification? Attempt at a joke I've missed? Some deep irony that somehow passed a Brit by when written by a Yank?

I can understand them wanting to protect secrets and new releases. At the same time though, most companys love having leaks! It means people WANT your product and there is a whole market biting at the bit to see what you will release. So i can understand them wanting to protect their secrets, but i think they totally miss handle how they do it.


Think of it this way, if another company buys out gw they are going to look like angels. All of a sudden it wont be criminal threats for leaking info and they will loosen all the sales rules making it easier to get the product out there.

I'm just supporting the team mate. Love GW and I'm going to keep spending my hard earned American cash on GW stuff. Nothing trollish about my post. If you're wanting to bash someone read up some on this thread, I'm sure you'll find something else you don't like.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I've read the BOW posts, and watched the video. He admits they were wrong, he's trying to make nice. Although I wouldn't air out my dirty laundry this way but to each his own.

 Kelly502 wrote:
I'm just supporting the team mate. Love GW and I'm going to keep spending my hard earned American cash on GW stuff. Nothing trollish about my post. If you're wanting to bash someone read up some on this thread, I'm sure you'll find something else you don't like.

No bashing, you seem to have read inflection into my post I didn't intend (and actually tried to diffuse entirely, hence the use of a smiley)

That said, while I can understand that you may enjoy the games, but are you actually saying you love GW? Remembering, as is often mentioned, that it is possible to love the product while still regarding the producer differently? 'Cause if you're genuinely saying you love GW, I think you might find yourself on a very small team in light of the actions of the last 18 months or so.

 azreal13 wrote:


Assuming such a blatantly trollish post must have some purpose behind it other than to waste your time writing it and (more importantly) mine reading it, I can only think it must be a comprehension failure on my part, any chance of a little more clarification? Attempt at a joke I've missed? Some deep irony that somehow passed a Brit by when written by a Yank?

Wow. He has been thoroughly scolded. Congratulations on policing this thread so well.

I think it would be best for everyone if everyone stopped talking about GW at all. No more word of mouth advertising for them and they can go away and the hobby would be better for it.

 Doomsdave wrote:

 azreal13 wrote:


Assuming such a blatantly trollish post must have some purpose behind it other than to waste your time writing it and (more importantly) mine reading it, I can only think it must be a comprehension failure on my part, any chance of a little more clarification? Attempt at a joke I've missed? Some deep irony that somehow passed a Brit by when written by a Yank?

Wow. He has been thoroughly scolded. Congratulations on policing this thread so well.

Sigh.

People are so happy to get offended on other people's behalf sometimes. I've already addressed that, thanks for the input.

 frozenwastes wrote:
I think it would be best for everyone if everyone stopped talking about GW at all. No more word of mouth advertising for them and they can go away and the hobby would be better for it.

You really believe this?

 Kelly502 wrote:

 frozenwastes wrote:
I think it would be best for everyone if everyone stopped talking about GW at all. No more word of mouth advertising for them and they can go away and the hobby would be better for it.

You really believe this?

Any company that sues their fans for providing information about their products to other customers should go away and whatever industry they are in, everyone will be better off for it.

The GW Hobby: Getting sent a letter by GW's lawyers for talking about them on the internet.

No thanks.

 frozenwastes wrote:

 Kelly502 wrote:

 frozenwastes wrote:
I think it would be best for everyone if everyone stopped talking about GW at all. No more word of mouth advertising for them and they can go away and the hobby would be better for it.

You really believe this?

Any company that sues their fans for providing information about their products to other customers should go away and whatever industry they are in, everyone will be better off for it.

The GW Hobby: Getting sent a letter by GW's lawyers for talking about them on the internet.

No thanks.

Except you're not talking about "fans" providing information with Beasts of War.
You're talking about a website specializing in news and rumors that was 'bought' by Wayland Games and used as their mouthpiece.

Sure you can make the argument that the guys presenting the N&R might be fans, but that's like saying that a news presenter is a "fan" of the news.

 azreal13 wrote:

 Doomsdave wrote:

 azreal13 wrote:


Assuming such a blatantly trollish post must have some purpose behind it other than to waste your time writing it and (more importantly) mine reading it, I can only think it must be a comprehension failure on my part, any chance of a little more clarification? Attempt at a joke I've missed? Some deep irony that somehow passed a Brit by when written by a Yank?

Wow. He has been thoroughly scolded. Congratulations on policing this thread so well.

Sigh.

People are so happy to get offended on other people's behalf sometimes. I've already addressed that, thanks for the input.

Sigh. It wasn't on anyone's behalf. I was making an observation. I can always count on you to be swinging a handbag at someone in almost every thread I read. There I put in a smiley face and winky head so you'll know I'm not offended or angry.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 frozenwastes wrote:

 Kelly502 wrote:

 frozenwastes wrote:
I think it would be best for everyone if everyone stopped talking about GW at all. No more word of mouth advertising for them and they can go away and the hobby would be better for it.

You really believe this?

Any company that sues their fans for providing information about their products to other customers should go away and whatever industry they are in, everyone will be better off for it.

The GW Hobby: Getting sent a letter by GW's lawyers for talking about them on the internet.

No thanks.

Except you're not talking about "fans" providing information with Beasts of War.
You're talking about a website specializing in news and rumors that was 'bought' by Wayland Games and used as their mouthpiece.

Sure you can make the argument that the guys presenting the N&R might be fans, but that's like saying that a news presenter is a "fan" of the news.

The personal views of those presenting the information is neither pertinent or relevant to the conversation.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Doomsdave wrote:

 azreal13 wrote:

 Doomsdave wrote:

 azreal13 wrote:


Assuming such a blatantly trollish post must have some purpose behind it other than to waste your time writing it and (more importantly) mine reading it, I can only think it must be a comprehension failure on my part, any chance of a little more clarification? Attempt at a joke I've missed? Some deep irony that somehow passed a Brit by when written by a Yank?

Wow. He has been thoroughly scolded. Congratulations on policing this thread so well.

Sigh.

People are so happy to get offended on other people's behalf sometimes. I've already addressed that, thanks for the input.

Sigh. It wasn't on anyone's behalf. I was making an observation. I can always count on you to be swinging a handbag at someone in almost every thread I read. There I put in a smiley face and winky head so you'll know I'm not offended or angry.

Its nice my posts are so important to you that you take notice.

You do realise that if everyone agrees there is no discussion right? Therefore everyone is going to be "swinging a handbag" in any thread where there is more than one view? You obviously read more than you post, but none of the threads where I try and help people out in, say, painting and modelling, or threads featuring company's products who I like and don't frustrate me with their constant, counter intuitive weirdness?

The fact remains that you interceded in an interaction you weren't involved with, taking offence on another users behalf. I'm sure you don't go up to people in restaurants and supermarkets and interrupt conversations that don't involve you, so why do it here?

So, let me get this straight. Wayland Games made, or partnered, with a legal separate entity with the expressed purpose to violate their GW contact by releasing information on upcoming GW releases. They thought it would be OK because the 'new' entity, that is directly affiliated with Wayland Games, didn't sign a contract with GW. Even though both Wayland and BoW set out to specifically violate a legally binding contract between GW and Wayland. And now BoW is trying to act like the victim due to the increased GW legal letters telling them to stop violating the contract that Wayland and GW signed. I just want to be on the same page with everyone.

Because that is the only thing that makes since, based off BoW bending over and taking it from GW's legal team. I mean, literally, every one of those legal letters from GW could have been ignored or BoW could have forced a middle ground with GW IF BoW was truly in the right.

I find it very hard to feel bad for Wayland or BoW when they were clearly and deliberately violating a preexisting contract with GW. Also, this is probably a publicity stunt to dog and pony GW's legal team in order to start using a 'fair use' defense against GW's letters. And if you expect me to believe that Wayland will stop violating their GW contact by providing information to BoW then you must think me for a fool.

You have it back to front.

GW changed their trade terms in order to shut down Bow from posting rumours and leaks due to their affiliation with Wayland.

BoW were an established website in their own regard long before they became involved with Wayland and I very much doubt leaking GW stuff early was even a consideration when the agreement was first talked about.

 azreal13 wrote:
The personal views of those presenting the information is neither pertinent or relevant to the conversation.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Doomsdave wrote:

 azreal13 wrote:

 Doomsdave wrote:

 azreal13 wrote:


Assuming such a blatantly trollish post must have some purpose behind it other than to waste your time writing it and (more importantly) mine reading it, I can only think it must be a comprehension failure on my part, any chance of a little more clarification? Attempt at a joke I've missed? Some deep irony that somehow passed a Brit by when written by a Yank?

Wow. He has been thoroughly scolded. Congratulations on policing this thread so well.

Sigh.

People are so happy to get offended on other people's behalf sometimes. I've already addressed that, thanks for the input.

Sigh. It wasn't on anyone's behalf. I was making an observation. I can always count on you to be swinging a handbag at someone in almost every thread I read. There I put in a smiley face and winky head so you'll know I'm not offended or angry.

Its nice my posts are so important to you that you take notice.

You do realise that if everyone agrees there is no discussion right? Therefore everyone is going to be "swinging a handbag" in any thread where there is more than one view? You obviously read more than you post, but none of the threads where I try and help people out in, say, painting and modelling, or threads featuring company's products who I like and don't frustrate me with their constant, counter intuitive weirdness?

The fact remains that you interceded in an interaction you weren't involved with, taking offence on another users behalf. I'm sure you don't go up to people in restaurants and supermarkets and interrupt conversations that don't involve you, so why do it here?

It's an internet forum. The conversation includes thousands. But if I overheard someone being a jackass in a supermarket I would definitely tell them they are a jackass. I'm not offended. And it's not on anyone's behalf. I was responding to a pattern of behavior that I perceived. If you disagree with my perception then carry on. I agree with the content of many of your posts in other threads. But in my opinion your tone is often scoldy.

You're right, it is an Internet forum, and hence, like any written medium, inflection is impossible and sometimes miscommunications arise because of that.

I am perhaps guilty of not using emoticons to substitute inflection when I should, because, of course, in my head I know exactly what I mean, but in this case I saw that possibility and took steps to try and avoid it.

Oh, and as a wider FYI, if you think I'm scolding someone (and they haven't said something utterly bloody stupid) it's more likely incredulity translating into harsh tone, as with so many cultures, ages, experiences and opinions on here, one inevitably encounters people whose thought processes are so divergent from your own, they just leave you with an almighty WTF!

 Kwosge wrote:
So, let me get this straight. Wayland Games made, or partnered, with a legal separate entity with the expressed purpose to violate their GW contact by releasing information on upcoming GW releases. They thought it would be OK because the 'new' entity, that is directly affiliated with Wayland Games, didn't sign a contract with GW. Even though both Wayland and BoW set out to specifically violate a legally binding contract between GW and Wayland. And now BoW is trying to act like the victim due to the increased GW legal letters telling them to stop violating the contract that Wayland and GW signed. I just want to be on the same page with everyone.

Because that is the only thing that makes since, based off BoW bending over and taking it from GW's legal team. I mean, literally, every one of those legal letters from GW could have been ignored or BoW could have forced a middle ground with GW IF BoW was truly in the right.

I find it very hard to feel bad for Wayland or BoW when they were clearly and deliberately violating a preexisting contract with GW. Also, this is probably a publicity stunt to dog and pony GW's legal team in order to start using a 'fair use' defense against GW's letters. And if you expect me to believe that Wayland will stop violating their GW contact by providing information to BoW then you must think me for a fool.

I don't think you could have jumbled up the timeline of events any more even if you tried.

Ok. The "little guy" was wrong, he admitted to it and he's more the man for doing so. The "800 lb gorilla" owns that stuff, is a business, they want to make money because it's a legitimate business it has the right to protect its assets. Period.

i'm guessing all this policy change from the latter days is about a better marketing model? If people have seen pictures of new products months in advance people lose the ability to snap purchase as the novelty is far worn off on release and they think its nothing they havent seen before?

FW do a booming trade on the exact opposite - i like seeing stuff in advance because an £80 model is something i have to forward plan and budget for and being that its unique selling point on 30k is appealing i was never going to not want it because i say its WiP 3 months earlier. BTW i am saving on a warlord titan.

badgermeister wrote:
i'm guessing all this policy change from the latter days is about a better marketing model? If people have seen pictures of new products months in advance people lose the ability to snap purchase as the novelty is far worn off on release and they think its nothing they havent seen before?

FW do a booming trade on the exact opposite - i like seeing stuff in advance because an £80 model is something i have to forward plan and budget for and being that its unique selling point on 30k is appealing i was never going to not want it because i say its WiP 3 months earlier. BTW i am saving on a warlord titan.

I've heard this "30K" mentioned before, are you refering to Forge World by chance? The Horus Heresy range?