Eldar vs marine *Fluff*

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**raiden**

illic Night-spear, Asurmen, Jain Zar, Karandras, Fuegan, Baharroth, Muagan Ra,

VS

Commander Dante, Marneus Calgar, Captain Lysander, Vulkhan He'stan, Azreal,High Marshal Helbrecht, Librarian Tigurius

WHO WILL WIN, YOU DECIDE! *FLUFF PLEASE*

**system seven**

well I've read most space marine fluff and a little bit of eldar so I would feel biased to say anything but just knowing Eldrad, illic, fuegan, muagan, they're all mean mothers game and fluff wise while on the other hand the chapter masters of the blood angels (not trying to glorify him though I am a Blood Angel player) Commander Dante has not lived as long as the eldar but he bares the scars most space marines can never have Dante is passed his expiration date even being a Blood Angel which typically live longer and he's still is not going down, and Marneus Calgar well crushing a avatars head with his hands is a pretty good feat. I'm just trying to say that no matter which way you look at it they all have done the impossible on more than just one occasion, but looking at it the eldar have been around for way longer than the space marines but that's not to say that the space marines can't handle their own. I mean I didn't even scratch the surface of it

**raiden**

no one has any faith in the phoenix warriors these days :/

**Kyrolon**

In a single one up fight? The marines. In the long haul... the phoenix lords. We'll be back, you see, again...and again...and again. Eventually we'll get lucky.

The Eldar way. Think Looooooong term.

**Trondheim**

Marines, because a bolter shell will kill a Eldar just as good as it exterminates any other xeno filt

**Crimson**

What will those other Eldar do while Maugan Ra kills the marines?

**Araenion**

Crimson, exactly my thoughts. Honestly, Phoenix Lords aren't Chapter Master equivalents, they are Primarch equivalents. First, they are eternal. Second, have you read any Maugan Ra fluff? He's more badass than Draigo and he actually does it with style.

I like Space Marine heroes. But in fluff, Phoenix Lords are known for such feats as single-handedly killing a Tyranid Splinter fleet(granted, Ra didn't kill every single Tyranid, just assassinated every big bug to eliminate their synapse), or intercepting a supersonic flier mid air and planting a grenade on its hull. How do you even see something like that, much less hit it in close combat or at range?

**ALEXisAWESOME**

The Phoenix Lords. Have you read there fluff? They accomplish things Chapter Masters have wet dreams over, usually by themselves. Fuegan personally banished 24 (!!!) greater daemons, 12 in close combat. Maugan Ra was waltzing around the warp before Draigo made it cool, as well as being eaten by a trygon, and slicing his way out!

I'm with araenion, P.Lords are on Primarch scales, chapter masters and captains are left in the dust. Even though the Space marines have psykic superiority (Irilic sucks, Eldrad should be in this!) in theory, you have to remember each and every eldar are at least Iota level psykers. Each P.Lord embodies thousands of powerful (Exarchs are used to power wraithlord, so they are powerful indeed) eldar souls, so we should in no way count them out in psykic defense fluff wise. For the space marines, 3 of those guys have unwieldy weapons, and since fluff wise P.Lord move faster then the eye can follow, you cannot expect even a single one of those to hit. The rest can't even Penetrate armour.

Not to sound fanboyish, but the P.Lord fluff is SO much better then their table top rules. I don't like how they are WS 7 with millions of years experience, while a Dark Eldar Succubus gets WS 8. Or they are matched for Imperial assassins. P.Lords deserve WS/BS 8 and adamantium will, but that's just me.

**raiden**

I agree they need the highest WS/BS in game.

**Sir Arun**

Can someone add the ingame points costs and see which faction is costlier?

Also, could we do an Apoc game where its only these guys vs the others and see who wins? Also, why do the Ultramurfs get two heroes? I want Helbrecht in there

**raiden**

He is lol

Automatically Appended Next Post:
and because they are ultra... and mattward said so

**Happyjew**

Sir Arun wrote:
Can someone add the ingame points costs and see which faction is costlier?

Space Marines - 1480 (1490 if Calgar is in Terminator armour)
Eldar - 1400 (1465 if Eldrad takes over for Illic)

Not sure why SM get a psyker and Eldar do not...

**Sir Arun**

Hmm that looks pretty even, I'm surprised. Would definitely make for a fun apoc game

**Daba**

Are you talking background/concept or in game?

In the background/concept, Phoenix Lords are Primarch position characters.

The current 'game' Phoenix Lord would be more suitable the stats of a Craftworld's High Exarch of that Aspect.

**Sir Arun**

I think gamewise Karandras would mow through a lot of the chapter masters in CC thanks to his S8 attacks at higher initiative than the chapter masters, while the PLs themselves can last till they lose all wounds and not every chapter master has an AP2 cc-weapon, so that's some more things going in favor of the Eldar. And not all chapter masters are 2+ armor themselves, so if the right PLs engage the right chapter masters, it will be pretty one sided, not to mention that the Eldar have more firepower at range (Maugan Ra, Baharroth's grenade pack, Fuegan's dual shot Firepike).

**Kain**

Given what Maugan Ra has done, he solos.

Easily.

**ALEXisAWESOME**

Lets play the count eternal warrior game. Eldar: 6. Marines: 2. Everyone who doesn't have Eternal warrior is simply Fuegan Fodder with his 25-30 inch (move 6, run between 1 and 6, shoot 18) threat range. Especially if they have no Invul (I'm talking to you Dante!).So the Eldars range superiority means the marines have to come to them or be insta deathbed one by one by Fuegan. Dante/Tig wont last first round, one killed by Fuegan, the other by a mix of Barahnoth, Ra and Irilic. Then only papa smurf and big yellow cause a problem, but I think that Asurman and handle/tarpit Papa with shield of grace while Jain and Karandras get to work on Mr Yellow. Lets see how he does when we disarm him of his thunder hammer!

The Rest are simply not a problem for lack of AP 2. Eldar take it...easily. Fluff and table top wise.

**Happyjew**

And if Fuegan can get his hands on a couple of Warlocks/Spiritseers with Renewer, he could easily solo the Marines, as after 3 rounds he'll be at S10, with 10 Attacks.

**Dannyevilguy**

I am deeply confused by how many people seem to think the Eldar would win this. Space Marines have much much MUCH better plot armor and this is a fluff based argument.

One of those Eldar would get a vision about how these Chapter Masters are needed to stop some looming threat to the galaxy and would turn on his fellows.

**ALEXisAWESOME**

You think you have plot armour on your side? HA! The Phoenix Lords *cannot* die, be destroyed or lost until the literal end of the universe. Eldrad has such good plot armour he has been brought back from the grave! What have the Marines got? A guy who looked up the hive minds skirt, a delusional angel and some guys in terminator armour Our Fluff beats yours

**wuestenfux**

Marines are unbeatable. So I'd opt for Marines.

**sing your life**

Those Space marines could just orbital bombard the Eldar to gak.

**curran12**

ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
You think you have plot armour on your side? HA! The Phoenix Lords *cannot* die, be destroyed or lost until the literal end of the universe. Eldrad has such good plot armour he has been brought back from the grave! What have the Marines got? A guy who looked up the hive minds skirt, a delusional angel and some guys in terminator armour Our Fluff beats yours

Not really. They can be killed, but the personality and skills live on, but they need to be inherited. It is not one guy with god mode on.

**raiden**

curran12 wrote:
ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
You think you have plot armour on your side? HA! The Phoenix Lords *cannot* die, be destroyed or lost until the literal end of the universe. Eldrad has such good plot armour he has been brought back from the grave! What have the Marines got? A guy who looked up the hive minds skirt, a delusional angel and some guys in terminator armour Our Fluff beats yours

Not really. They can be killed, but the personality and skills live on, but they need to be inherited. It is not one guy with god mode on.

No, it is one guy, usually an exarch will *sacrifice* themselves and allow them to come back, (with he experience and skills of that exarch) at least that is how it happaned in way of the warrior when karandras got killed by a lowly dreadnaught saving an entire SS aspect unit.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
Lets play the count eternal warrior game. Eldar: 6. Marines: 2. Everyone who doesn't have Eternal warrior is simply Fuegan Fodder with his 25-30 inch (move 6, run between 1 and 6, shoot 18) threat range. Especially if they have no Invul (I'm talking to you Dante!).So the Eldars range superiority means the marines have to come to them or be insta deathbed one by one by Fuegan. Dante/Tig wont last first round, one killed by Fuegan, the other by a mix of Barahnoth, Ra and Irilic. Then only papa smurf and big yellow cause a problem, but I think that Asurman and handle/tarpit Papa with shield of grace while Jain and Karandras get to work on Mr Yellow. Lets see how he does when we disarm him of his thunder hammer!

The Rest are simply not a problem for lack of AP 2. Eldar take it...easily. Fluff and table top wise.

Also Dante has 4++ save. (iron Halo) mephy doesnt have the invuln.

**Dunklezahn**

Gotta say Eldar.

Excusing the obvious marine plot armour and going purely by their exploits, the Phoenix's as said weigh in at Primarch levels.

Veterans of 10 millennia of war the fluff has had them pull some crazy stunts. Calgar is one of their supposed best and he got beaten in combat by the Swarmlord, Maugan Ra took out an entire splinter fleet single handed.

Chapter Masters are pretty mean folks but they are just out of their depth in a fight against what could easily be considered fluffwise some of the most martially powerful beings in the setting.

**PredaKhaine**

Eldar win on plot armour, especially if Eldrad is involved.

Only the Eldar can win - if they couldn't win, somehow the marines would be redirected to go and fight some orks due to Eldrad.

**shamikebab**

Crimson wrote:
What will those other Eldar do while Maugan Ra kills the marines?

This

**Dracoknight**

Tho i am Bias'd towards my Races of Tyranids and Tau.... i must say i side with the Eldar.

Spezz Meh-reens are dull

**ninjafiredragon**

i was about to put eldar, just cause i love them, then i saw what characters you put for the eldar. without avatar, no chance.

Marines get my vote

**SYKOJAK**

Marines would take it. They would hit them while they were out of their armor and then take the Phoenix Lord armor as trophies.