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2013/11/23 12:57:22
Subject: Alien vs Predator Miniatures Game from Prodos Games
Great blog, thanks for posting and thanks to the blogger - will keep an eye on his updates. Just read though on the AvP KS comments page that they are somewhat restricted on what they can take photos / video of. I.e., no sneaky peeks of the Queen as she has yet to be approved by Fox...
For another comparison, look at Scibor or Legendarion prices - they really are top end.
You just killed your entire argument.
I have some Legendarion stuff now and the casts leave a bit to be desired. Scibor is gak all around. Also, all of the comparisons being made are to retail prices. Think about that for a minute...
The HF resins are limited. They have a certain number cast up and offer them until they run out. I don't believe that they have changed that.
The argument that most of the folks are making is that paying boutique prices for KS figures is a bad deal. As I've said in other threads, KS is a way for companies to secure a large, interest-free loan. Since we as "backers" cannot get interest on our money, the company should offer some sort of benefit. Some offer buckets of figures, some offer deep discounts. This campaign seems to offer neither, or at least, less than they could.
Combine that with the very sloppy management of the campaign, and a lot of folks don't want to back the project.
To me, this entire project makes no sense anymore. There will be a non-limited product produced at some future date, so why in the hell are they not Kickstarting that and adding the resin items to it? Are they planning another KS when it comes time to produce that? I certainly hope not. I will say that I believe this KS would have been better served with another month of planning and having the core, non-limited product as it's focus.
The property is extremely interesting to me, but this project just doesn't seem to be worth backing, sadly. In my opinion, of course.
~Eric
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/11/23 13:35:46
For another comparison, look at Scibor or Legendarion prices - they really are top end.
You just killed your entire argument.
I have some Legendarion stuff now and the casts leave a bit to be desired. Scibor is gak all around. Also, all of the comparisons being made are to retail prices. Think about that for a minute...
The HF resins are limited. They have a certain number cast up and offer them until they run out. I don't believe that they have changed that.
The argument that most of the folks are making is that paying boutique prices for KS figures is a bad deal. As I've said in other threads, KS is a way for companies to secure a large, interest-free loan. Since we as "backers" cannot get interest on our money, the company should offer some sort of benefit. Some offer buckets of figures, some offer deep discounts. This campaign seems to offer neither, or at least, less than they could.
Combine that with the very sloppy management of the campaign, and a lot of folks don't want to back the project.
To me, this entire project makes no sense anymore. There will be a non-limited product produced at some future date, so why in the hell are they not Kickstarting that and adding the resin items to it? Are they planning another KS when it comes time to produce that? I certainly hope not. I will say that I believe this KS would have been better served with another month of planning and having the core, non-limited product as it's focus.
The property is extremely interesting to me, but this project just doesn't seem to be worth backing, sadly. In my opinion, of course.
~Eric
LOL, you don't get my point... I'm talking price, not quality. I have no idea what Scibor or Legendarion quality is, I just see they are high price products and that Prodos prices (for the KS at least) are less...
You don't want to back - I have no issue with that and I appreciate your reasons, but they have so far been backed to the tune of £200k + (approx US$340k) so they must be doing something right?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/11/23 14:12:57
Couple of things
- How cool does the guy look with the motion tracker? This game is just so ripe for player-made sound effects while you are playing - And the Predator about to throw the disc? Thought the one about to use the wrist computer looked the best, I was wrong.. Now we just need a Gary Busey miniature that comes in two halves!
Love the title for that, makes it look like 'Adult video pope day'. Some nice pics again though, doesn't it look good on that Battle Systems terrain!
@Ruglud - Having looked at the model, I kind of see what they were trying to do with it now; she's running along, about to turn a corner and slide, or else do a kind of 'QB slide'.
Cross promtion form the Battle Systems update#19 - they are also there today.
Update #19
Nov 23, 2013
Live update.... BSL & AvP
Comment
Hey guys a very small update just to get you some pics. Been here now in Leamington-Spa for a couple of hours and played a few games on our Hulk style single level layout.
Here are a few pics of the fun and I can confirm that the two systems work very well together, already using those crates for cover and kicking over the those bunks.
2013/11/23 14:38:16
Subject: Alien vs Predator Miniatures Game from Prodos Games
Are these "production" samples? Those are some horrible seams on the alien head in the closeups (albeit easy to remove - still), also the hip looks weirdly cast and part of the tail. I wonder if these are going to be common problems?
2013/11/23 14:51:48
Subject: Alien vs Predator Miniatures Game from Prodos Games
I only played a very basic game but will give a quick run through.
I had 5 marines (as box, one minigun one flamer/medic) vs two squads of 8-10 stalkers which included one Infant.
Roll for initiative. As I won and the aliens were in cover I placed most of the squad on 'sentry' using two Action Points (AP). This allowed me to react during there moves, (doesn't have to be overwatch like shooting but usually is).
Minigun can re-roll to him dice and has a rate of fire (Rof) of 3. Rifles have a Rof of 1. Must roll equal or under stat on a D20 with various modifiers.
Stalkers have a dodge mechanic which at the moment is a bit OP as it allows a dodge 50% of the time! If hit then the weapon strength modifies armour value (can be up or down i.e. alien claws are not too strong, which makes the armour save easier).
Flamer is a small template (they had some clear ones from the box game and some coloured promo ones which needed approval.) Can't dodge the flame and gives two hits on each model underneath.
2013/11/23 15:33:18
Subject: Re:Alien vs Predator Miniatures Game from Prodos Games
So I'm guessing they didn't play the "boardgame" on the actual boardgame tiles, but on that of another comanys stuff? ( which looks cool by the way)
Just wondering if they are promoting, ya know, the stuff that is actually supposed to come in the box at all since that was one of the points of waiting all this time.
Would really like to see more of what this project has to offer, rather than how much cooler another project makes it appear by proxy.
You are very welcome. I'll try to answer things if I know!
I don't think they had the boardgame tiles back from the printers.
All the rule sheets were just computer print offs and the event/strategy cards (i.e. during the board game you play one at the start of the turn might be a random event like zero G or fire sprinkler activation etc) were just on home made looking cards rather than print shop.
Its still quite a WIP. The guys are really passionate about it but I think working with Fox can make things a bit difficult (my words not from prodos!)
2013/11/23 15:42:20
Subject: Alien vs Predator Miniatures Game from Prodos Games
What was the quality of the figures material resin?
The pictures here make the figures look like canned !@#$.
At Games Workshop, we believe that how you behave does matter. We believe this so strongly that we have written it down in the Games Workshop Book. There is a section in the book where we talk about the values we expect all staff to demonstrate in their working lives. These values are Lawyers, Guns and Money.
2013/11/23 15:48:33
Subject: Alien vs Predator Miniatures Game from Prodos Games
Hand to hand was pretty brutal. You are supposed to move and resolve one model at a time (unlike 40k 'pile in').
No 'fight back' either (unless you spend an action point in your turn or are on 'sentry') although one of my marines locked in combat did manage to escape (alien got a free swing) and then shoot their attacker.
Rules system feels very cinematic.
I asked about numbers and they reckoned about 15 to 20 miniatures per side for skirmish (although preds is different as they are lone wolves rather than in squads). The numbers of aliens I faced with 5 marines was a little unbalanced but still fun. And they started close by which meant only 2/3 turns before they were in my face.
2013/11/23 15:51:44
Subject: Alien vs Predator Miniatures Game from Prodos Games
I find the resin quite difficult to describe (but I'm not an expert). Its quite firm but at the same time bendy/forgiving. There is a lot of 'spindly' fine deatils like the claws and spears etc.
The material doesn't seem at bendy as DZC resin (also on my desk) but not anywhere near as brittle as forgeworld.
Sharpness of detail is generally very good, although there are one or two areas (like the very very fine detail on the tip of the predettes blade) which may need a little more definition (or its my eyesight!)
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/11/23 16:06:00
2013/11/23 16:09:44
Subject: Alien vs Predator Miniatures Game from Prodos Games
I love it every time someone tells me to compare this to some incredibly niche product that only appeals to the groggiest of grognards. That's exactly the appeal of A V P, right?
I've not seen anything I don't like yet, with the possible exception of the medic, and that can be fixed with a posing and basing change.
If the thought of something makes me giggle for longer than 15 seconds, I am to assume that I am not allowed to do it. item 87, skippys list
DC:70S+++G+++M+++B+++I++Pw40k86/f#-D+++++A++++/cWD86R+++++T(D)DM++
2013/11/23 16:25:32
Subject: Alien vs Predator Miniatures Game from Prodos Games
BobtheInquisitor wrote: I love it every time someone tells me to compare this to some incredibly niche product that only appeals to the groggiest of grognards. That's exactly the appeal of A V P, right?
You mean Scibor minis aren't from some of the most recognizable scifi/action movie franchises of the 80s so they don't have the same appeal? Shocking! If Prodos wants to charge $16 for 4 eggs that would normally be filler bits on other game line's sprues, that is their right... I simply won't pledge in that case. If you want to charge boutique prices, sell them as in stock boutique minis and ship them immediately instead of using kickstarter. If you want to cut out the middle men on the initial rush and get your money risk free for 6 months with frankly no ironclad guarantee of final quality or even delivery, you'll have to sweeten the pot significantly compared with the retail prices offered here. I don't buy "boutique" priced minis 6 months to a year ahead of release. YMMV.
In any case, it doesn't look like the campaign will get to the 2000 backer pledge level unless there is a very significant tail.. which I frankly doubt given how it's been run and is progressing.
