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Yea, I can't recall off the top of my head any planets in Black Crusade which involved Chaos Marines that weren't hell holes. Those guys are pretty selfish ass holes.

The Blood Gorgons are pretty decent fellows, though (RELATIVELY speaking for Chaos), as are their planets (relatively speaking for 40k). So I guess it's possible for even Chaos Marines to run a "decent" planet (relatively speaking). Just really rare. However, I'm not sure the Blood Gorgons count since they don't "rule" their planets so much as just watch over them protecting them from the Imperium and collect resources/recruits in exchange for that, to my knowledge.

Daemons (not including daemon princes, not that I'm aware of a daemon prince ruling a "decent" planet off the top of my head) ruling a human planet is probably like a cat ruling a planet of dogs but worse. That probably can't end well. Even a daemon that wasn't a complete jack ass wouldn't be able to do a good job of it due to daemons generally not understanding how mortal minds work (which is one of the reason why the gods value daemon princes).

TiamatRoar wrote:
Yea, I can't recall off the top of my head any planets in Black Crusade which involved Chaos Marines that weren't hell holes. Those guys are pretty selfish ass holes.

The Blood Gorgons are pretty decent fellows, though (RELATIVELY speaking for Chaos), as are their planets (relatively speaking for 40k). So I guess it's possible for even Chaos Marines to run a "decent" planet (relatively speaking). Just really rare. However, I'm not sure the Blood Gorgons count since they don't "rule" their planets so much as just watch over them protecting them from the Imperium and collect resources/recruits in exchange for that, to my knowledge.

Daemons (not including daemon princes, not that I'm aware of a daemon prince ruling a "decent" planet off the top of my head) ruling a human planet is probably like a cat ruling a planet of dogs but worse. That probably can't end well. Even a daemon that wasn't a complete jack ass wouldn't be able to do a good job of it due to daemons generally not understanding how mortal minds work (which is one of the reason why the gods value daemon princes).

Chaos Space Marines are chaos taking to the extreme. Humans can´t keep the pace and die horribly.

The planet ruled by the Blood Gorgons is what I´d expect of a human-chaos minor world. Just your average backwater world without the Imperial Creed. We are not told which gods they worship or how their society works, but it works. Sure there are gonna be hellholes in this world, but people endure. Chaos needs these worlds to exist. Demons would destroy it, but then they will starve.

Which is what the Cabal says: that chaos is unable to restrain itself, thus devouring humanity only to die by starvation later.

I think it is a lie: there are chaos societies that last thousands of years. The Gorgons used this world as a valuable resource for ages, instead of killing everyone "for the evilz".

I know that Warhammer Fantasy and Warhammer 40k shouldn't be considered the same thing, but Chaos for the most part is the same in both continuities. In WHFB, they have a human civilization that's pretty much as old as humanity itself and it's doing just fine (arguably too fine). Of course, it's morally depraved and ruthless and horrid and everything, but "killing itself" is one of the few negatives that it isn't (at least on a grander scale. On a lesser scale, warriors of chaos kill each other pretty often, but not to untenable levels, apparently)

 da001 wrote:

Which is what the Cabal says: that chaos is unable to restrain itself, thus devouring humanity only to die by starvation later.

Did the Cabal actually say this, anyways? I thought what they said was that after Horus won, Horus would be so overcome with guilt that he'd destroy the galaxy himself as penance, which is an entirely different thing from Chaos destroying itself (and something that becomes more believable as more novels come out that show Horus can craft his own agenda separate from the gods).

To the OP I see your point but there is a couple issues.

Those "good" societies in chaos are in the few so when the "bad" ones run out of imperial subjects to abuse they're gonna turn on eachother next.

Also, I interpret the cabal's meaning to be that chaos, as a whole, doesn't sustain well.

I do think that painting chaos as a huge ball of fire looking for fuel is flawed, but I feel that the most powerful of those in chaos are going to bring down the rest, violently.

I just don't take anyone's pov at face value in this universe as, in one way or another, everyone is a donkey cave.

TiamatRoar wrote:

 da001 wrote:

Which is what the Cabal says: that chaos is unable to restrain itself, thus devouring humanity only to die by starvation later.

Did the Cabal actually say this, anyways? I thought what they said was that after Horus won, Horus would be so overcome with guilt that he'd destroy the galaxy himself as penance, which is an entirely different thing from Chaos destroying itself (and something that becomes more believable as more novels come out that show Horus can craft his own agenda separate from the gods).

Let me see: page 393 of Legion...
Wow you are right. I guess I remembered it wrong. It is even dumber that way.

I'd enjoy visiting Torvendus, well before it was destroyed, so demon worlds seem kinda fun.

There will no unity under chaos, that is Chaos propaganda.

In Horus Heresy you see the rifts appearing in the legions going over to chaos. The whole Abaddon army is an alliance of fear not commandery.

If the imperium would fall to chaos planets would be run like city states or small empires run by a chaos lord/priest/demon etcetera

 da001 wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:
Because a few will be turned into half-demon things and the rest will be enslaved or worse. Not exactly a Win for the human race.

This is imperial propaganda.
Look at the Sabbat Worlds: the Imperium is at war with a full civilization that worships Khorne. And they have been doing that since forever. They are humans who worship the god of war (and not the "dumb god of always angry"), and they prosper. They have children and take care of them, they have schools, they have honour.

The Imperial Truth is a lie.

First, Huron's scheme was not achieved with the aid of the Daemons, and his primary goal was not to turn to Chaos; but rather to grow his personal power, and perhaps to aid the Tiger Claws, arguably considered as sons of the Chapter; also note that the Lamenters and Mantis Warriors Chapters would have never sided with the Tyrant had they knew his true goal. These all led to a clever guise over a revolt, and there is no true evidence that Huron nor the Astral Claws ever worshiped the Ruinous Powers during the war. The schools weren't built because of chaos, but to, yes, further his own propaganda rather than that of the Imperium. It's more likely the whole thing was a scheme of Tzeentch to weaken the Imperium of Men.

Second, the worlds WILL fall without the Astronomican; thousands of Hiveworlds, Cardinal Worlds, and most important of all, the Forge Worlds, will all fall due to the lack of import. Trillions living off planets that can't even sustain a fraction of these lives -- the gods will not care for such petite suffering, the anarchy and carnage that will surely ensue will only further the strength of the gods themselves. Do you truly believe Chaos will care if the entire galaxy is in flames and all men dies? There will always to be others, other psychic sensitive species to sate the Gods' appetite. Was there trade during the long night? No! Not in the realm of men anyways.

Lastly, chaos will not unite, once the light of astronomican dimes, all worlds of men, be it the now famine-ridden hiveworlds or the ill-protected agri-worlds, will become easy prey of non-warp dependent (or at least non-Astronomican dependent) species, Tyranids, Greenskins, Dark Eldars, Hruds, and every minor species that plague the Milky way. Without a already organized (they are, not matter how corrupted) Imperium to prepare defense, population will be enslaved, tortured, and slain. You know, the IoM is a dick, a huge dick, but it ain't that much of a dick to human than everything else in the universe... 'cept for the Taus, they are OK, all things considered.

He's talking about the blood pact not the red corsairs.

 lcmiracle wrote:

 da001 wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:
Because a few will be turned into half-demon things and the rest will be enslaved or worse. Not exactly a Win for the human race.

This is imperial propaganda.
Look at the Sabbat Worlds: the Imperium is at war with a full civilization that worships Khorne. And they have been doing that since forever. They are humans who worship the god of war (and not the "dumb god of always angry"), and they prosper. They have children and take care of them, they have schools, they have honour.

The Imperial Truth is a lie.

First, Huron's scheme was (...).

1) Huron? Huron is a Chaos Space Marine. They are exceedingly rare. The vast majority of Chaos forces are human. Most humans do not see a single Space Marine in their lives. Not all w40k is about marines. As posted by others, all worlds ruled by marines or demons go to hell, and I am sure Huron will eventually fail. But there are many examples of "human" chaos worlds that fares well.

I was talking about the "Sanguinary Worlds" (a name given by the Imperium), a thousand years old civilization that worships Khorne. They are well known because the Gaunt´s Ghost series. The "Blood Pact" Vraksian Defender mentioned is a military force associated with the Sanguinary Worlds. They worship Khorne, but they have a thriving civilization. Because Khorne is not "the dumb god of always hungry", he is the god of war. Humans have been worshipping the god of war since the beginning. Some Khorne worshipping civilizations last thousands of years, include women and children (surprise!), run schools and hospitals, and thrive.

Second, the worlds WILL fall without the Astronomican; thousands of Hiveworlds, Cardinal Worlds, and most important of all, the Forge Worlds, will all fall due to the lack of import. Trillions living off planets that can't even sustain a fraction of these lives -- the gods will not care for such petite suffering, the anarchy and carnage that will surely ensue will only further the strength of the gods themselves. Do you truly believe Chaos will care if the entire galaxy is in flames and all men dies? There will always to be others, other psychic sensitive species to sate the Gods' appetite. Was there trade during the long night? No! Not in the realm of men anyways.

These worlds you are talking about ARE the Imperium. Of course they will fall if the Imperium falls. The OP is asking about the death of mankind. There are countless worlds that are doing well without the rule of the Lords of Terra. The Sanguinary Worlds will not fall. The worlds the Blood Gorgons rule will not fall. The countless worlds scattered through the galaxy the Imperium knows nothing about will not fall. These worlds you are talking about will be destroyed and then born again, stronger and able to defend themselves.

Chaos values self-sufficiency. You just pointed out the biggest weakness of the Imperium: if the Astronomicon goes down, the Empire goes down.

Lastly, chaos will not unite, once the light of astronomican dimes, all worlds of men, be it the now famine-ridden hiveworlds or the ill-protected agri-worlds, will become easy prey of non-warp dependent (or at least non-Astronomican dependent) species, Tyranids, Greenskins, Dark Eldars, Hruds, and every minor species that plague the Milky way. Without a already organized (they are, not matter how corrupted) Imperium to prepare defense, population will be enslaved, tortured, and slain. You know, the IoM is a dick, a huge dick, but it ain't that much of a dick to human than everything else in the universe... 'cept for the Taus, they are OK, all things considered.

Chaos is all about multiple choice, the eight pointed star against the single way of the Imperium. But they will unite against a common enemy. They did it before.

We can talk about what will be better for humanity in the long run: a victory or a defeat of the 13th crusade, but "chaos victory equal the death of mankind" is Imperial propaganda. The Imperium is not powerful enough to defend its worlds, the Empire of Mankind is falling. Too much corruption, weak worlds protected by fleets that arrive a century later to a wrong system, endless tithes, psykers being mostly used to feed the Emperor... they are not holding the line. And when the astronomicon stops working...

 Jehan-reznor wrote:
There will no unity under chaos, that is Chaos propaganda.

In Horus Heresy you see the rifts appearing in the legions going over to chaos. The whole Abaddon army is an alliance of fear not commandery.

If the imperium would fall to chaos planets would be run like city states or small empires run by a chaos lord/priest/demon etcetera

Never heard this propaganda. Chaos lies are all about freedom, personal power, raw feelings and independence (or about accepting the truth if you meet a Word Bearer willing to speak to you). "Unity" is not a word chaos uses. Propaganda: Chaos Vs Order is Freedom Vs Unity.

The Great Crusade was what really kicked Chaos into kick ass mode. It was what forced Chaos' hand to act as it was losing ground to the ever growing Imperium, losing what Chaos worlds they already possessed. With the corruption of the Traitor Legions the Chaos Gods had new tools to enforce their rule and expand their Empires. Now the Chaos Space Marines serve their Gods the only way they know how, through bloodshed. Which is more interesting than reading about Chaos Worlds where people live happily every after, unless you are a sacrifice to the four winds at least.

Vraksian Defender wrote:
If anything it would seem like it would give humans the power to destroy anything in their path, calling down diseases from Nurgle to infect the Hive Fleets, eating the souls of the Eldar, doing to magicy thing to Necrons and Khorne granting soldiers the savagery of an Ork. What about the worlds within the Eye that have life, like Torvendus, maybe you could say its depraved life, or human life that doesn't deserve to exist but its human life none the less.

Their seems to be a lot of confusion on the chaotic side as well about this. In the Dark Apostle series they talked about bringing an end to mankind in one book and in another talked about how they needed to save mankind through Chaos.
The Iron Warriors seem to have this issue to, Forrix talking about how Honsou believes in the dream of Humanity united under Chaos while at the same time talking about destroying humanity in another part of the book. Same hatred of humans in the Siege of Castellex. I'm not sure whether this nuance is on purpose, is this the product of bad writing or is just because games workshop can't decide how to portray the followers of Chaos.

I'm not sure if I should end this post with DEATH TO THE FALSE EMPEROR or LET THE GALAXY BURN(yea you know who I root for) so I'll just tell everyone to have a nice day.

They don't necessarily want the death of mankind. They don't care one way or the other whether mankind as a race lives or dies. What they do want is the death of the emperor who has power over them, even in his veg state.

Dunno if anyone brought this up, but in the HH book 'Legion' by Dan Abnett, the (more or less) exact reasoning for the Alpha Legion to side with Horus is spelled out.
1) Horus Loses: Tens of thousands of years of stagnation, Chaos is still hardy and meddling with reality.
2) Horus Wins: Humanity frags itself in about 1-2 decades because of the inherent insanity of Chaos, galaxy as a whole doesn't suffer.

This kinda points toward the idea that if Chaos wins, mankind will collapse. While they don't WANT mankind to collapse, they'd need to throw in some infrastructure fast or the majority of worlds will tear themselves apart at the seams. Almost no hive or forge world has its own "on-site" food source, and any agri-world that makes food is population starved. And when Alpharius and Omegon were showed this prophecy, it was before 10,000 years of GRIMDARK had sunken its claws into the IoM. I'd give it 1-2 months before the galaxy is a smoldering pile of ash.

 da001 wrote:

 Kain wrote:

 da001 wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:
Because a few will be turned into half-demon things and the rest will be enslaved or worse. Not exactly a Win for the human race.

This is imperial propaganda.
Look at the Sabbat Worlds: the Imperium is at war with a full civilization that worships Khorne. And they have been doing that since forever. They are humans who worship the god of war (and not the "dumb god of always angry"), and they prosper. They have children and take care of them, they have schools, they have honour.

The Imperial Truth is a lie.

The overwhelming majority of "chaotic" society has atrocious living conditions for anyone not a Chaos Space Marine, with rampant slavery, widespread torture, absolutely no concept of rule of law, no value for life (even the Imperium has a concept of "wasteful expenditure") and most of them openly abide by the creed of "Do evil for evil's sake" in the words of one Chaos Space Marine.

This is a society that deserves only extinction with extreme prejudice.

It has nothing to offer anyone with a conscience.

Again, imperial propaganda. And "atrocious living conditions" and "no value for life" apply to the Imperium too.

There are few sources that write from the point of view of chaos followers, but they do not live by the "do evil for evil´s sake" creed. Also, Chaos Space Marines are exceedingly rare, and can be ignored here. They do not represent a human society. Most people do not see a single one of them in their lives (just like loyalist Space Marines).

Edit: most of the stuff we get is Bolter porn describing Space Marines killing scum. The Sabbat Worlds or books like Daemonworld or Pawns of Chaos give a completely different perspective.

I love when other races perspective comes up in Warhammer 40K. Sadly, it rarely happens.

Also, Bolter Porn might be the best term I have heard in a while

 LoyalistAlphaLegion wrote:
Dunno if anyone brought this up, but in the HH book 'Legion' by Dan Abnett, the (more or less) exact reasoning for the Alpha Legion to side with Horus is spelled out.
1) Horus Loses: Tens of thousands of years of stagnation, Chaos is still hardy and meddling with reality.
2) Horus Wins: Humanity frags itself in about 1-2 decades because of the inherent insanity of Chaos, galaxy as a whole doesn't suffer.

This kinda points toward the idea that if Chaos wins, mankind will collapse. While they don't WANT mankind to collapse, they'd need to throw in some infrastructure fast or the majority of worlds will tear themselves apart at the seams. Almost no hive or forge world has its own "on-site" food source, and any agri-world that makes food is population starved. And when Alpharius and Omegon were showed this prophecy, it was before 10,000 years of GRIMDARK had sunken its claws into the IoM. I'd give it 1-2 months before the galaxy is a smoldering pile of ash.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but shouldn't number 2 should be edited to "Horus frags humanity" or "Horus makes humanity frag itself" in place of "Humanity frags itself", and "because of the inherent insanity of Chaos" should be replaced with "because Horus feels guilty about the whole thing"?

That's what someone earlier confirmed when I brought it up. Needless to say, there is a HUGE difference if I'm right. Your version places the blame on Chaos while the latter version (that so far is the one I'm pretty sure is the actual one, though I don't have the book anymore) has the collapse of humanity primarily be in Horus' hands, not Chaos'.

TiamatRoar wrote:

 LoyalistAlphaLegion wrote:
Dunno if anyone brought this up, but in the HH book 'Legion' by Dan Abnett, the (more or less) exact reasoning for the Alpha Legion to side with Horus is spelled out.
1) Horus Loses: Tens of thousands of years of stagnation, Chaos is still hardy and meddling with reality.
2) Horus Wins: Humanity frags itself in about 1-2 decades because of the inherent insanity of Chaos, galaxy as a whole doesn't suffer.

This kinda points toward the idea that if Chaos wins, mankind will collapse. While they don't WANT mankind to collapse, they'd need to throw in some infrastructure fast or the majority of worlds will tear themselves apart at the seams. Almost no hive or forge world has its own "on-site" food source, and any agri-world that makes food is population starved. And when Alpharius and Omegon were showed this prophecy, it was before 10,000 years of GRIMDARK had sunken its claws into the IoM. I'd give it 1-2 months before the galaxy is a smoldering pile of ash.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but shouldn't number 2 should be edited to "Horus frags humanity" or "Horus makes humanity frag itself" in place of "Humanity frags itself", and "because of the inherent insanity of Chaos" should be replaced with "because Horus feels guilty about the whole thing"?

That's what someone earlier confirmed when I brought it up. Needless to say, there is a HUGE difference if I'm right. Your version places the blame on Chaos while the latter version (that so far is the one I'm pretty sure is the actual one, though I don't have the book anymore) has the collapse of humanity primarily be in Horus' hands, not Chaos'.

Ah, my fault entirely. Yeah, Horus would drive the whole thing into the ground because of self-destructive desire and guilt. Never mind, false alarm.

This is obvious! with no resistance them daemons will find a way to breach the wall between materium and immaterium causing demons to explode into reality and buttrape the entire universe! look at what just one chaos god rampaging free did to the eldar! imagine that on humanity times four.

According to Chaos in The First Heretic, the Eldar fall happened because they rejected Slaanesh despite how they're the ones that created Slaanesh in the first place, and Humanity won't suffer the same fate if they embrace Chaos like they're supposed to.

Of course, you can't always trust Chaos' word. But at least they're aware of the whole "You need us to survive, yet one of us destroyed the Eldar" contradiction and came up with or have an explanation for it.

According to Chaos in The First Heretic, the Eldar fall happened because they rejected Slaanesh despite how they're the ones that created Slaanesh in the first place, and Humanity won't suffer the same fate if they embrace Chaos like they're supposed to.

Like they're supposed to?

When they have mutants and gribblies all running around, when these things used to be their neighbors until they got powdered with some Warp Dust... you think people are going to look at that and say "Oh, well, doesn't look so bad, all right then..." ?

Seems to me that is simply a false promise. Chaos knows people won't willingly worship it without being coerced into doing so, so they are trying the carrot-and-stick approach... when, in reality, taking either the carrot or the stick still gets you a face full of tentacles and a flaming skull head.

A flaming skull head would be really cool.

About what Chaos says in The First Heretic, I am assuming it was all a lie. They were trying to convince Lorgar.

Only if you lived in a society where everyone else is cool with flaming skull heads and you didn't want to get your mack on ever again... kinda hard to lacking lips and, also, setting your date's face on fire.

 Psienesis wrote:

According to Chaos in The First Heretic, the Eldar fall happened because they rejected Slaanesh despite how they're the ones that created Slaanesh in the first place, and Humanity won't suffer the same fate if they embrace Chaos like they're supposed to.

Like they're supposed to?

Chao's words, not mine.

 Psienesis wrote:
Only if you lived in a society where everyone else is cool with flaming skull heads and you didn't want to get your mack on ever again... kinda hard to lacking lips and, also, setting your date's face on fire.

Nonsense. A flaming skull head is cool. Period.
When searching for a date, I will make sure that she is already on fire. So no problem. Also think about the advantages! I will give you some:

1) You can fry a chicken and eat it quickly and efficiently. You can add spices directly through the holes of your eyes. You can use your own head as a fondue!
2) You save a lot in electricity. You can read all night without turning a light on. That’s quite important if you are, say, a future chaos evil engineer, or a future chaos evil veterinary.
3) Comic fans and Doomrider fans will ask you for your signature. You get grupies.
4) Everyone will admit that you are hot.
5) No one will be able to read your face while playing poker. And if everything else fails, you can sneeze and set your own cards on fire. And if someone complains, you can set him/her/it on fire too while laughing maniacally.
6) If you buy a Space Marine Centurion by mistake, you can melt that abomination to oblivion by yourself.
7) If you get lost in an evil forest, you can set the forest on fire, and be rescued by the evil firemen.
8) You can go to a Justin Bieber concert with a jerrycan of gas and wreak havoc.
9) If you lose your watch, you can use your own head and a stick to create a solar watch.
10) If you are an evil teacher, you can easily explain what is a solar eclipse, even if it is raining. If an evil student interrupts you, you can set him/her/it on fire while laughing maniacally.
11) If you are a evil proctologist, you do not need a lantern.
12) In Winter, you can get some cash working as a walking stove.
13) In Autumn, you can get some cash burning leaves.
14) In Summer, you can get some cash following sweating fat people until they pay you money to go away.
15) In Spring, the season of war in most chaos civilized countries, you can set people on fire while laughing maniacally and become a respected warrior.

To name a few.

Part of the problem with calling Chaos being anything but evil is because Chaos by nature (at least as the fluff describes it) embraces some of the most basic/primitive and extreme/dark aspects of human nature... and then amplifies it in a self-perpetuating cycle because the Warp entities (Daemons, Gods, whateveR) are sustained by that. Murder, slavery, betrayal, plague and pain and death... they are things people quite often associate with evil (and you have to admit murder, torture, and slavery are hard to justify) And yet, those same entities are created from the thoughts and emotions of living beings (if not actual souls). Are those living beings evil for knowingly and unknowingly sustaining these beings through their acts? And if not, where do you draw the line?

I think the distinction was alot grayer in earlier stuff (like Realms of Chaos especially) because they placed more emphasis on 'being created from thoughts and emotions of living beings) and the chaos gods emphasizing more of the negative aspects but still having some positive quantities and the emphasis being more on order vs chaos (with both sides having positive and negative aspects). More recent editions have, like with the tau, polarized things a bit more into 'good/evil' camps (or is that 'more/less evil'?), although not totally abandoning the 'order vs chaos' dynamic..

I will always take the old background over the new. Most of the new stuff is a gross simplification of the old goodies and I find it pretty lame.

Then check out the table of mutations in RoC. That's going to be the new reality... and it probably won't apply to just people. What do you do when you get acid for blood, your legs fall off, your head shrinks down to a pinhead and your house gains both sentience and Animal Hybrid?

Acid for blood is cool. Legs are overrated. A pinhead reduces your intelligence by -1, and everyone knows that happiness is inversely proportional to intelligence. Having a house in any world in this setting is an achievement in itself, and if it is sentient you can train it to do tricks. And if you know someone with a flaming skull head you could throw a party that quickly degenerates into an orgy and then make a fondue.

It is all a matter of perspective.

Now imagine what would happen to this same mutant in an Imperial world...

Vraksian Defender wrote:
If anything it would seem like it would give humans the power to destroy anything in their path, calling down diseases from Nurgle to infect the Hive Fleets, eating the souls of the Eldar, doing to magicy thing to Necrons and Khorne granting soldiers the savagery of an Ork. What about the worlds within the Eye that have life, like Torvendus, maybe you could say its depraved life, or human life that doesn't deserve to exist but its human life none the less.

Their seems to be a lot of confusion on the chaotic side as well about this. In the Dark Apostle series they talked about bringing an end to mankind in one book and in another talked about how they needed to save mankind through Chaos.
The Iron Warriors seem to have this issue to, Forrix talking about how Honsou believes in the dream of Humanity united under Chaos while at the same time talking about destroying humanity in another part of the book. Same hatred of humans in the Siege of Castellex. I'm not sure whether this nuance is on purpose, is this the product of bad writing or is just because games workshop can't decide how to portray the followers of Chaos.

I'm not sure if I should end this post with DEATH TO THE FALSE EMPEROR or LET THE GALAXY BURN(yea you know who I root for) so I'll just tell everyone to have a nice day.

It would not be the death of mankind, but the death of freedom for man and an eternity of servitude

But those that surrender were treated fairly,

It was the same with ancient rome, they ruled with the carrot and the stick.

 da001 wrote:
Acid for blood is cool. Legs are overrated. A pinhead reduces your intelligence by -1, and everyone knows that happiness is inversely proportional to intelligence. Having a house in any world in this setting is an achievement in itself, and if it is sentient you can train it to do tricks. And if you know someone with a flaming skull head you could throw a party that quickly degenerates into an orgy and then make a fondue.

It is all a matter of perspective.

Now imagine what would happen to this same mutant in an Imperial world...

Your posts are making me laugh.

No a chaotic victory would not equal the death of mankind since there are many chaos planets in the setting already and well all the humans are not dead and they actually have a society. Now death for humankind as a large united front? Then I could see that.