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After recently getting back into the hobby I decided to go with Chaos Space Marines, the opponent I will be facing most often will be playing Dark Eldar and will be going with the venom spam! Any tactics for the CSM to counter this? This is my army so far(I will be buying more so suggestions are welcome, and all the units listed aren't necessarily going to/have to be in the army, they are just what I have at the moment)

Abaddon
Kranon
Dark Apostle
Huron
2xSorcerer

80 cultists
6 chosen CSM

4xHelbrute
Forgefiend/Maulerfiend (currently unassembled)
Heldrake (unassembled so still have option between weapons)

Load up on mid-strength shooting, and consider swapping some cultists/chosen for CSM troopers. Their bolters can glance vehicles, and they will stand up at least moderately better to the splinter fire and templates you will undoubtedly face.

On the brutes and fiend, go with autocannons. the high volume of s7/8 will ruthlessly down venoms and raiders.

As far as IC, keep em cheap. Heavy hitters like abbadon are fun but DE have a lot of good options for tarpitting them, or just plain staying out of their way, and your points spent may often go to waste.

As a DE player mostly facing CSM, I'd say kit the hell out of that Heldrake with a baleflamer (not sure if this weapon actually needs kitting tbh).

Cultist easily die under splinter fire. CSM is the way to go for sure as eohall suggested.

yea, I play both CSM and Dark Eldar.... Never bring the Cultist against them. they die in droves and Dark Eldar are probably the Fastest army you will meet on the Battlefield. I suggest auto cannon havocs, marines! marines! marines! maybe the Forge fiend. he could ruin their day.

Severoth "Shadow Blade wrote:
Dark Eldar are probably the Fastest army you will meet on the Battlefield.

I dunno. Eldar (especially Warp Spiders) are fairly quick. Especially when firing on foot.

One tip, don't bother with the mark of nurgle!

Bikers too would be a waste, use raptors instead if you need the extra distance.

Two words, Plasma Guns!

My favourite special against everything is especially useful here. They are high enough strength to wreck their paper thin vehicles, double out guys with a pain token and ignore their armour saves. 10 Traitors with a pair of plasma guns is very reasonable points wise and helps because you are gonna need bodies.

Like all Eldar the Dark Kin like when you load up too many points on fancy high toughness, good save troops.
Helldrakes are probably the most powerful thing in the dex so they are always going to get recommended.

Bring Rhinos. Put autocannon wielding squads inside. Watch Venoms cry when they can't hurt anything.

Plasma raptors, infiltrated plasma chosen, laspreds, land raiders, forgefiends - these are all good units against Dark Eldar. You want to be shooting them more than running towards them.

Well, taking down the DE skimmers will be key. Otherwise, they will fly circles around your army and pick unit by unit at leisure.
As said, mid strength weapons should be your first choice, like autocannons and heavy bolters.

I suggest try out the often-neglected Terminators. 5 of them with a reaper and nothing else (to keep them cheap), should / could work well against them.

oraj wrote:

Cultist easily die under splinter fire. CSM is the way to go for sure as eohall suggested.

they die much slower than they do under bolter fire.

If a DE player is wasting his splinter shots on cultists, it is probably because he is about to table you as you have lost everything else.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 techsoldaten wrote:
Plasma raptors, infiltrated plasma chosen, laspreds, land raiders, forgefiends - these are all good units against Dark Eldar. You want to be shooting them more than running towards them.

why would you want plasma guns against an army where everything is T3 5+ save or worse. You are paying 15 points and to wound them on 2+ instead of 3+ and taking gets hot wounds.

laspreds? How much better is a laspred vs a dakka pred against AV10. (hint:not at all)

Land Raider? 250 points for 2 last cannon shots on a platform that is easier to destroy than for any other army. AV12 and mass haywire grenades. Not a good combo.



What you want is autocannons. Autocannons on everything. Autocannons every day. Forge fiends are ok, but you are putting eggs in one basket, and the 36" range isnt that great for the +1 strength.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Dunklezahn wrote:
Two words, Plasma Guns!

My favourite special against everything is especially useful here. They are high enough strength to wreck their paper thin vehicles, double out guys with a pain token and ignore their armour saves. 10 Traitors with a pair of plasma guns is very reasonable points wise and helps because you are gonna need bodies.

I really dont get the plasma gun fetish. Against vehicles they have a 18" /6" double tap range, not good enough to catch fast skimmers. Against infantry, bolters already wound on 3+ and deny armor saves. Is a plasma gun really worth the points?


The best special weapon against DE is a flamer. That one time you barbeque 10 warriors, 5 turbo jetbikes or are able to actually hurt it's 2+ coversave beastpack of doom it is worth it. Otherwise you only paid 5 points for it.

 Order Knight wrote:
I suggest try out the often-neglected Terminators. 5 of them with a reaper and nothing else (to keep them cheap), should / could work well against them.

Not really.

DE can pile on the AP2 pretty well also.

Venoms can do you down from sheer volume of shots, Disintegrators love termies that aren't rocking a fething 3++, and small expensive units are what DE like the best

It would depend on what he brings with his venomspam. A razorwing with disintegrators is my usual support, and termies die like chaff tot he amount of firepower one can put out.

 techsoldaten wrote:
Plasma raptors, infiltrated plasma chosen, laspreds, land raiders, forgefiends - these are all good units against Dark Eldar. You want to be shooting them more than running towards them.

Thats just not the case mate.

You want Dakka Preds, not Las preds. High volume S5 and S7 shooting will wreck our vehicles much more effectively.

You do not want a Land Raider. Why spend 220+ points on something I can kill with a 60pt throwaway Haywire wych squad? Or hit with my S8 lances so youre only AV12?

Forgefiends are good.

And youd be better off with Flamer raptors to get a the squishy T3 5+sv filling when something else pops the raiders/venoms.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ascalam wrote:

 Order Knight wrote:
I suggest try out the often-neglected Terminators. 5 of them with a reaper and nothing else (to keep them cheap), should / could work well against them.

Not really.

DE can pile on the AP2 pretty well also.

Venoms can do you down from sheer volume of shots, Disintegrators love termies that aren't rocking a fething 3++, and small expensive units are what DE like the best

It would depend on what he brings with his venomspam. A razorwing with disintegrators is my usual support, and termies die like chaff tot he amount of firepower one can put out.

Agreed. I played that exact Termie unit last night and took it down to one man with a single round of shooting from 4 Blasterborn in a Venom. All our shooting is either high volume Poisoned 4+ (for Infantry and MC's) or S8 AP2 Lance (for vehicles and TEQ)

Cultists. Their autoguns are not completely crap against DE and in cover they are more survivable than CSM by points.
CSM have better leadership however and far better in CC.

Sonic weaponry will tear DE infantry and skimmers apart.

Autocannon havocs are good.

CSM should do pretty well against DE tbh. The bolters will take down any raiders very quickly and then just shoot them to death while they try and slog forward.

Havocs and oblits can take stuff down early. Plus the forgefiend is pretty decent against the harder units.

Unfortunately gun line is the order of the day against them. You just have to prepare to weather a storm of shooting, but with AP- weapons you'll just have to be lucky.

Stay clear of expensive Nurgle units. Pointless against poison weapons.

And try and get rid of any hellions early.

But tbh just go vanilla lord and max out on bolter fire.

Posessed are actually pretty decent against their grotesques. Try and tie them up with something midfield, they take a lot of shooting to destroy them. Spawn should be good against them.