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 tankboy145 wrote:
Not the best at kkilling vehicles? 1 roll of a 6 for armor pen results in an immobilized result and 2 6's means 2 more hull points are done, 3 6's and thats a wrecked wagon. With 30 shots being twinlinked, I would believe that would be a dead wagon.

A BW isn't really the best delivery system. 2 Biker Bosses with 5-6 ablative Biker Nobz and Painboy will statistically be able to reach them in CC and are still cheaper by a non-negligeable margin (10% at least). Then it's game over. And it's not really tailoring since Nob Biker "deathstars" (if we can call them deathstars nowadays...) are not uncommon in Ork armies.

Tau/Tau (besides Kroot)
Take O'vesa, Darkstider, and a Buff-mander and attach them to some pathfinders.

Fire O'vesa's S8 AP2, Large Blast, Ignore Cover, Twin-Linked shot at the now T4 Centurians.

 tankboy145 wrote:

 Billagio wrote:
Sure it might kill 15 boyz in test rolls in the open field, but if I roll a battlewagon up to you and have the boyz get out, shoot and assault you, youre probably going to be in trouble (cant overwatch right?) Plus the Battlewagon has a good chance of getting there as grav cannons arnt the best at killing vehicles, especially if you have KFF cover. Now they are tied up and I can get more boyz in on it.

Or just use a burna wagon.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Nym wrote:
If an Ork warboss (125 to 150pts) somehow manages to reach them in CC, it's pretty much game over for your 700pts unit.

A Daemon Prince without Power Armor would also probably destroy them in short order and they could barely hurt it.

And yeah, a warboss will wreck this. Put him in a BW with 3 meganobs and its game over for that unit.

Not the best at kkilling vehicles? 1 roll of a 6 for armor pen results in an immobilized result and 2 6's means 2 more hull points are done, 3 6's and thats a wrecked wagon. With 30 shots being twinlinked, I would believe that would be a dead wagon.

Battlewagons are 4hp to start with and if you put a KFF in there you negate statistically 1/3 of the 6s.

 Billagio wrote:
Battlewagons are 4hp to start with and if you put a KFF in there you negate statistically 1/3 of the 6s.

This assumes that vehicles can take cover saves against grav weapons. Strict RAW, vehicles cannot (currently) take cover saves against grav weapons. However that is a discussion for another forum, and with a bit of searching you can find it.

spartiatis wrote:

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
Centurions are slow and purposeful

Ergo, they can never be a proper deathstar.

Exactly this.
If they could overwatch and Tigurius aimed for foreboding, then yes, it would be very tough to take down. Assault seems to be their Achilles' heel.
This is what i like on the new SM codex. While some units are very good, they have a vulnerability one can expliot. Unlike things like Riptides..

This.

I don't see anyone bitching about Space Marines, what happened to "hurr durr Tau are just the latest FotM and you'll bitch about the next one as well"

 Dakkamite wrote:

spartiatis wrote:

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
Centurions are slow and purposeful

Ergo, they can never be a proper deathstar.

Exactly this.
If they could overwatch and Tigurius aimed for foreboding, then yes, it would be very tough to take down. Assault seems to be their Achilles' heel.
This is what i like on the new SM codex. While some units are very good, they have a vulnerability one can expliot. Unlike things like Riptides..

This.

I don't see anyone bitching about Space Marines, what happened to "hurr durr Tau are just the latest FotM and you'll bitch about the next one as well"

Eldar came out and we got a bigger toy, and broken transports.

Cents are Toughness 5 btw.

This deathstar is a lot harder to deal with that most people think. I am not a huge fan of just 6 cents and Tig but what my friend as been doing is you run 3 cents, lysander, and Corbulo from BAs. Cents have grav/TL-Las on Sarg with omni...Lysander tanks anything that is Strength 8 or over and Look out sir on to Corbulo for has a 3+/ 2+ FNP for anything less. So your plasma talons on your black knights will just be pushed to Corbulo and he will take his 2+ FNP. He also has the all seeing eye so he can re-roll a dice once a game. It's an extremely tough unit to kill unless you roll just terrible. You just walk this unit up the field and when you get close you just break off Lysander and Corbulo from the cents. This is all just a plan to keep your cents safe so they can move up the field.

Yes large blast strength 8 or over will do some work to this unit but if you don't have a lot of high strength weapons it will be hard to get past that FNP on Corbulo.

Drown them in Gants. There is no problem you can't handle in this game if you have enough Gants. Just sayng.

A vindicare assassin in a Bastion will get them all eventually, buff will effectively kill Tiggy early.

This was talked about on another forum I frequent. There's a lot of weaknesses to it but it IS a pretty vicious unit if you can't address it. The main weakness is that it's slow and purposeful as others have said. The O'vesa-star from NOVA was also a very expensive unit that worked extremely well. I can see a similar thing with this centurion-star but without the mobility. If you can get them to the center of the board, they can hold their position moderately well and have a decent area of influence. Thankfully though, there are things with longer range to address them.

 Desubot wrote:
Better hope to not get that one BOOOON roll that makes your armor save better

without Power Armor I am not sure what happens. He has no armor save, so he either cannot benefit or gets a 6+ armor save.

Kemp wrote:
Cents are Toughness 5 btw.

This deathstar is a lot harder to deal with that most people think. I am not a huge fan of just 6 cents and Tig but what my friend as been doing is you run 3 cents, lysander, and Corbulo from BAs. Cents have grav/TL-Las on Sarg with omni...Lysander tanks anything that is Strength 8 or over and Look out sir on to Corbulo for has a 3+/ 2+ FNP for anything less. So your plasma talons on your black knights will just be pushed to Corbulo and he will take his 2+ FNP. He also has the all seeing eye so he can re-roll a dice once a game. It's an extremely tough unit to kill unless you roll just terrible. You just walk this unit up the field and when you get close you just break off Lysander and Corbulo from the cents. This is all just a plan to keep your cents safe so they can move up the field.

Yes large blast strength 8 or over will do some work to this unit but if you don't have a lot of high strength weapons it will be hard to get past that FNP on Corbulo.

I know Centurions are T5, however when Darkstrider shoots at a unit, that unit has -1 Toughness for that shooting attack. Thus the Cents are T4 and are ID from O'vesa. It is the only reason you would stick O'vesa in a 4 man T3 unit.

The Centurions would not be able to use armor saves, cover saves, or FNP. All they have left is the character's invulnerable save.

There's always the 165 point Leman Russ Demolisher... take a couple of those and boom?

 Exergy wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
Better hope to not get that one BOOOON roll that makes your armor save better

without Power Armor I am not sure what happens. He has no armor save, so he either cannot benefit or gets a 6+ armor save.

Ah though he started with some kinda armor 4+ or something never mind

I have Exorcists for it. A big, slow chunky unit that I can outrange and blow past their armor.

 Ravenous D wrote:
So this unit popped up at the store the other day and it did obscene amounts of damage to a regular tournament champion to the point where he went and bought it right after.

Its pretty simple and straight forward and not as easy to deal with as you would think.

Tigurius
6 Centurions with Grav cannons.

What this unit does:
- Re rolls hits and wounds with 30 grav cannon shots
- Optimal powers: Endurance(FNP, It will not die), Forewarning (4++), and Prescience (Re roll all to hit rolls)
- 18 or 36 twin linked bolter shots in addition to the grav guns
- Re rolls psychic tests
- Re roll reserves

First answer was "use orks" but after killing 15+ boyz consistently in test rolls, doesn't seem like an answer.

1. Pick any other army
2. Load up on weapons with a greater range than 30"
3. Win

x13rads wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:
So this unit popped up at the store the other day and it did obscene amounts of damage to a regular tournament champion to the point where he went and bought it right after.

Its pretty simple and straight forward and not as easy to deal with as you would think.

Tigurius
6 Centurions with Grav cannons.

What this unit does:
- Re rolls hits and wounds with 30 grav cannon shots
- Optimal powers: Endurance(FNP, It will not die), Forewarning (4++), and Prescience (Re roll all to hit rolls)
- 18 or 36 twin linked bolter shots in addition to the grav guns
- Re rolls psychic tests
- Re roll reserves

First answer was "use orks" but after killing 15+ boyz consistently in test rolls, doesn't seem like an answer.

1. Pick any other army
2. Load up on weapons with a greater range than 30"
3. Win

pretty much. My favorite would be 6 DE venoms with dual cannon and night shield. 720 points and will force on average 24 saves a turn on the hapless cents. It will only kill 2 cents a turn, but wont take any damage in return, if they get endurance it they will only kill 3 cents every 2 turns but it will still be a sad show.

I suppose the cents could be given missile launchers.....How awesome is 800 points for 6 missile launchers?

I'd also just like to ask just how many points is 15 boys?

For 660 points you would need more than 7 turns to kill an equal amout of boys, and in the end you still couldn't score an objective.

How about a greater unclean one? It doesnt care about grav guns, no armor save means those pesky grav guns don't do anything. T7 means bolters will wound on a 6, but potential Iron arm will just shrug it off.

If we are playing the optimal powers game, we might as well play the optimal warlord traits and wargear game while we are at it.

GUO with iron arm and warp speed, and endurance. So T8-10, IWND, FNP and a boosted initiative and attacks, as well as fleet (for the charge rolls). Give him the balesword for instant death on all attacks, and a plague flail for the bonus attack, well as the Dark blessing reward, to re-roll failed invul saves. With the nature of daemons, it is not too far fetched to think a Tzeentch model with divination would be far, so we could bust this bad boy up to a ++4 with prescience, or just give it the hatred warlord trait.
He would have 8-10 attacks on the charge, all with instant death, at initiative 5-7. A re-rollable ++4, with FNP and IWND just in case he loses one of his 6 wounds.

If the stars were ever to align to give this GUO all that it wanted, it would be arguably the most durable unit in all of 40k. Even the all mighty swarmlord would have a very hard time cracking this GUO open.

Best part of all, under 300pt. So in a point for point fight, I could have 2 of them against your death star.

MY first thought was the unit looks like Ymgral bait. No overwatch, no invulnerable save vs 40 rending hits in the charge.

Sternguard in a drop pod with combi plasmas or combi meltas. I would say 2 of them.

Guard could just outrange them.

Tau could also outrange them.

Flyers.

Blank Templar getting close would have a good chance with deny the witch.

Dark elders speed and drowning of poison shots, or close combat.

Orks in trucks getting into close combat.

Most of them aren't expensive either so you can focus more on the rest of there crap.

 Ravenous D wrote:

Tigurius
6 Centurions with Grav cannons.

Fought a version of this with my Elysians (out of Codex IG) where it only had x5 Centurions, but my vendettas flew on and wrecked a good chunk of it with my veterans disembarking the next turn and plasma gunning the rest down, though it is nasty I have good counter to it.

That's the problem. For a deathstar, this unit has too many counters. It's slow. It has short range. It's not winning many assaults. Weapons are specialized and not effective against enough units.

That's not to say its a boring unit to play, but you'll be more effective with them if you're realistic.

Attaching characters to solve the deficiencies is an option if you want the big unit instead of MSU cents. Pick the character to cover the most bases in your meta. There's tons of possibilities once you account for all the battle brothers.

If it were me, I'd go for a buffmander for rerolls, ignoring cover, and hit and run. Then a melee beast to tank wounds and punch anyone who assaults like Lysander or a tooled up chapter master.

I kind of don't see what's all the fuzz about here. Any weapon with range above 24" and AP2 will laugh at them... Plasma/Lascannon Devs with Presciense Libby will take care of them in no-time, not to mention Eldar Starcannons...

OH, and why not fight fire with fire? 2 biker squads with tri-plasma/Grav could be intresting... A little bit risky, but with more mobility they will cripple the Cents before dying for a fraction of their price.

Reduce the cents to 4 man with corbulo and Lysander and put them in a LRC

Allies can't ride in the main force's transports.

and taking Corbulo seems like an enormous point sink for an already enormously point sunk unit. You already have to pay for a troop and HQ, and the centurions don't even get FNP.

Yes, sure, Corbulo gets his 2+ FNP, but without EW, he is not really any better than just having a TH/SS squad march in front of them and soak ablatives with Lysander attached to the squad.

But seriously, with as much points as you are talking about, I would hope to run into this list. It would be very easy to outmaneuver you. And if I kill them, your lynchpin army is just done.

The Lysander/Corbulo star took fourth at Feast of Blades open. It's absolutely disgusting and only got stomped by gravy spam white scars.

Trust me, that's a deathstar that makes all the other current ones poop themselves outside of Screamer star.

Simple math hammer, say you're firing a mass quantity of shots, none of it AP2. If you LOS all of it to corbulo, you have a 1/3 chance to fail armor, 1/6 chance to fail FNP, and a 1/6 chance again because of all seeing eye.

That works out to be 1/108 chance to wound corbulo while he still has his reroll or that he's 99.1% likely to be fine.

With Lysander tanking the low volume, high strength stuff, you're not budging the unit.

This unit is coupled with Shield Eternal/AA/TH/Jump pack chapter master, dante, Sanguinary Guard and another sang priest. That doesn't scatter on deep strike, melta pistols something to death and now you have to deal with the immediate deathstar or the coming.

I played Draigowing against this. The Paladin Star barely killed the Dante star. It then got annihilated by the Termitubbies and friends after consolidation.

I would assault it with a single Flyrant and kill 665 points of things with a 260-285 point model.

 PrinceRaven wrote:
I would assault it with a single Flyrant and kill 665 points of things with a 260-285 point model.

Or Lysander tanks you like a boss and kills you. He will issue a challenge, get a reroll (two with corbulo) potentially), and squash your bug.

Deathstars in general, good. Deathstars played by a good general, great.

As for the GUO, grey knights or Asterath (sp?) will punk him. If he gets the ere...