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Guard probably have the best answer to it, haven't seen IG around as much lately, there needs to be more I think.

3 missle sides in a bastion. grave guns can't hurt it and bolters don't work.

A couple of posts are underestimating the anti tank capsbilities - 30 grav shots rerolling to hit is ~ 26 hits, glancing on a 6 rerolling to glance gives ~ 8 glances. Thats 1.3 glances on average per cent. If ignoring cover, 3 cents will glance a raider to death if not moving... on average.

Guard aren't even that good of an answer. Between drop pods, thunderfires, and flyers the SM book has numerous answers for all kinds of issues. It's a solid unit that requires an army be built around it. But it's good enough that it WORTH building an army around if you choose too. Is it the strongest build, nope, but it's a good one.

At 2000pt, the cent star could be accompanied by a pedro stern alphastike while coming in in a raven

DA libby + tech with power field generator (pretty cheap) or azrael.... either of the 2 will grant them a 4++

Also underestimating the firepower against t4 6+ targets. The grav cannons will kill ~8 whilst the hurricanes will kill ~16 on average.

(At 12"... between 12" and 24" it'll be 8 and 8.)

Marbo... just Marbo

To the OP. Nurgle Spawn are the bane of Grav Gun Centurions. They need 6's to wound with all weapons.

I didn't think that the Grav-Cannon on Ceturians was twin-linked, as they replace their TL Heavy Bolter with a single Grav-Cannon and single Grav-Amp. Am I right?

 minigun762 wrote:
Said squad is what, nearly 700 points?
That's 5 Vindicators, of which I'm pretty sure you'd only need a few solid hits to really neuter the squad.

Beyond that, you just assault it to tie it up. No overwatch means you're fairly safe to charge it and even if you lose after 2-3 turns, you've still kept the rest of the army safe from the crazy firepower it will bring.

One hit. Barring FnP, a solid hit from a Vindicator will wreck the entire unit.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 mazzHammer wrote:
I didn't think that the Grav-Cannon on Ceturians was twin-linked, as they replace their TL Heavy Bolter with a single Grav-Cannon and single Grav-Amp. Am I right?

Yes, you are.

 mazzHammer wrote:
I didn't think that the Grav-Cannon on Ceturians was twin-linked, as they replace their TL Heavy Bolter with a single Grav-Cannon and single Grav-Amp. Am I right?

yes, they are not twinlinked. People are assuming you are buffing the squad with psykic powers.

 Exergy wrote:

 mazzHammer wrote:
I didn't think that the Grav-Cannon on Ceturians was twin-linked, as they replace their TL Heavy Bolter with a single Grav-Cannon and single Grav-Amp. Am I right?

yes, they are not twinlinked. People are assuming you are buffing the squad with psykic powers.

Exactly that ^. We are after all talking about a 6 man grav cent squad with tiggy who has taken prescience. See the OP.

Poly Ranger wrote:
Also underestimating the firepower against t4 6+ targets. The grav cannons will kill ~8 whilst the hurricanes will kill ~16 on average.

(At 12"... between 12" and 24" it'll be 8 and 8.)

which for a 700 point unit is rather weak.

655pt (but that is spitting straws). My point is that the thing they LEAST want to shoot still suffers massive damage. That would be their least optimum target yet they cause 24 casualties.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Haha that should read *splitting.

Poly Ranger wrote:
655pt (but that is spitting straws). My point is that the thing they LEAST want to shoot still suffers massive damage. That would be their least optimum target yet they cause 24 casualties.

Assuming the orks are out of cover, which isnt likey to happen for 30 models anywhere and that the orks are within 12" (meaning that all of the cents are within 12" of one ork) That is pretty close

Psychic powers... we are talking about the optimal load out/powrs right? Even if only half are within 12" that's still 20 dead orks.

Lets imagine they don't ignore cover and they are all further than 12" away. Thats 16 dead orks since you focus fire on the orks out of cover (its huge terrain if you aren't bunching and you've managed to get over 14 orks in cover, if you are bunching, then blasts will be ripping the orks a new one). Being further than 12" away also means the orks are not an immediate threat.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Just realised you said out of cover too :-p.

Poly Ranger wrote:
Psychic powers... we are talking about the optimal load out/powrs right? Even if only half are within 12" that's still 20 dead orks.

Lets imagine they don't ignore cover and they are all further than 12" away. Thats 16 dead orks

That leaves 90 or 94 orks left. You get 110 orks for the price of this unit.

 DarknessEternal wrote:

Poly Ranger wrote:
Psychic powers... we are talking about the optimal load out/powrs right? Even if only half are within 12" that's still 20 dead orks.

Lets imagine they don't ignore cover and they are all further than 12" away. Thats 16 dead orks

That leaves 90 or 94 orks left. You get 110 orks for the price of this unit.

and somehow they are all within 12" and about to charge.

 DarknessEternal wrote:

Poly Ranger wrote:
Psychic powers... we are talking about the optimal load out/powrs right? Even if only half are within 12" that's still 20 dead orks.

Lets imagine they don't ignore cover and they are all further than 12" away. Thats 16 dead orks

That leaves 90 or 94 orks left. You get 110 orks for the price of this unit.

You're missing the point im making - that even against the LEAST optimal target they will still gut a squad. Yes you can get 111 orks (hell - you can get 133 termegants) for almost the same price, but other units can deal with these. Their job isn't to take these units on... but they can. 111 orks would prove a challenge for lysander and 10 th/ss termis, but you wouldnt say they aren't a threat in assault. And as Exergy says - try getting 111 orks into 12" charge range. Grav cents aren't great point for point against horde... but neither are most 665pts worth of models. You don't rate the effectiveness of honour guard by calculating how many grots they can kill, so why use the cents least optimal target to rate their effectiveness? Remember that they will be supported by other units.

Poly Ranger wrote:
Remember that they will be supported by other units.

So will the Orks.

To the previous argument about killing 30 ork boys....

... the two thunderfire cannons will help with that just fine.

Deathstars aren't in a vacuum, and as one, this is GROSS. It's not a metric ton of points and can be supported with efficient units found within both the SM and BA codex.

I beat a boys spam list with my Draigowing... yea, I had 1W left on Draigo, Coteaz, and a Paladin at the end of the game, but my three dreadknights wrecked the house and I won with my opponent having 3 dakkajets left. I have shifted my 6E gaming to more elite units and they can still win, you just need the proper support.

(Edit, as reference, the Tiggy squad + 6 Cents is BAD. The Shield Eternal Iron Hands Chapter + Corbulo + 4 Cents = Win. I've seen it clean up very, very, very well first hand. It will vape a Seer Council, O'Vesa Star, and many other shenanigans builds. Add a BA Libby with TDA/SS for lulz)

7 deathwing knights with a basic libby in a land raider right next to your deathstar, they have prescience on 22 attacks+7 hammer of wraths, 18 of which are AP2 str 10 ID

 TheKbob wrote:
To the previous argument about killing 30 ork boys....

... the two thunderfire cannons will help with that just fine.

Deathstars aren't in a vacuum, and as one, this is GROSS. It's not a metric ton of points and can be supported with efficient units found within both the SM and BA codex.

I beat a boys spam list with my Draigowing... yea, I had 1W left on Draigo, Coteaz, and a Paladin at the end of the game, but my three dreadknights wrecked the house and I won with my opponent having 3 dakkajets left. I have shifted my 6E gaming to more elite units and they can still win, you just need the proper support.

(Edit, as reference, the Tiggy squad + 6 Cents is BAD. The Shield Eternal Iron Hands Chapter + Corbulo + 4 Cents = Win. I've seen it clean up very, very, very well first hand. It will vape a Seer Council, O'Vesa Star, and many other shenanigans builds. Add a BA Libby with TDA/SS for lulz)

I agree this is potent, but not in the league of screamerstar or seer council. And I must protest the above statement about BA. We have no efficient units currently

Would artillery be an option to turn them into a fine red mist?

AP 2 artillery, but they have very fat bases. The simplest problem I see is Eldar skimmers with 36" firepower that they can never close with. And whatever nonsense the Tau lob at them. The point is they are more vulnerable than true death stars.

Corbulo is FANTASTIC and the BA Storm Raven is one of the best, if not the best, AA-Aircraft in the game (that's not Forgeworld).

The Termietubby star would scrap a Seer Council as they will either have a 3+ armor, or likely a 2+ armor if they are dumb. Rerollable 4++ means you're still killing many with the grav cannon spam. So basically you force them to the edge and cover your army as much as possible.

I propose a list I ginned up in 5 minutes for digestion, no points values, but it's at 2K:

Primary (IRON HANDS)

++Chapter Master++
-Bike, Artificer Armor, Shield Eternal, Power Fist

++Legionne of the Damned (x6)++
Flamer, Heavy Flamer

++Scouts (x5)++
-Snipers, Camo Cloaks

++Scouts (x5)++
-Snipers, Camo Cloaks

++Stormtalon Gunship++
Skyhammer Missiles

++Stormtalon Gunship++
Skyhammer Missiles

++Termietubbies (x4)++
-Grav-cannons, Omniscope, Sgt has chest missiles

++Thunderfire Cannon++

++Thunderfire Cannon++

Allies (BLOOD ANGELS)

++Libby++
-Termi Armor, SS, 2 Divination Powers (or others, game dependant)

++Corbulo++

++Assault Marines (x10)++
-2x Flamers

++Storm Raven++
-TLLC, TLMM, Blood Strikes

With that army, you're going to have plenty of AT and infantry roasting power. Yea, the troops are weak and could be tweaked (cheaper BA marines, put bike troops with gravy, w/e, I hate bike models and put the Chapter Master on one just to absorb S8,S9 hits and still get a 6++ and to break away to punch things late in the game). But that'd be a GROSS 2000 pt list to face. With the Chapter Master up front (and average unit toughness of 5!!!) they are as durable or more so than my Paladin Star that has Draigo up front absorbing fire power. Draigo dies a lot, but he also doesn't have ITWND and a 24" thread range like the Iron Hands CM on bike. Also, you have a ton of serious firepower backing you up in the TFCs and flyers. The tech marines provide synergy well with the camo cloak scouts to have 2+ cover scoring units.

I think that 2000 pts of Eldar will melt this list. 2K Eldar can shell out 60+ W a turn. This list can't absorb that.

The seer council has the luxury of moving in after your stuff is softened up. Movement is cool like that.

Martel732 wrote:
I think that 2000 pts of Eldar will melt this list. 2K Eldar can shell out 60+ W a turn. This list can't absorb that.

Comparing any list to 2K of Eldar isn't exactly what I call "fair". The Eldar book is the best out there. Hooray. That adds what to the discussion. We can say a Screamerstar kills them too, but we all know a rerollable 2++ is broken.

In every other game of 40k that doesn't feature knowingly broken units, this can vaporize.

That's like saying my #3 football team can win if the number 1 and 2 teams aren't allowed to play. The screamerstar and seer council are the deathstar standards, just as the Vendetta and Helldrake are the standards for fliers. We can't toss those data points because we don't like them.

The title of the thread is "kill this unit". If it can't survive the Tau/Eldar, it's not much of a deathstar.

The Vendetta is much better than the BA Stormraven from an efficiency point of view as well. The BA Stormraven, like all Stormravens, pays for a lot of useless wargear.