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HQ
Tigurius
Inquisitor Ordo Malleus - Terminator Armor, Psycannon, 3 Servo Skulls
MotF (Iron Hands)

Troops
10 man Tactical Squad Drop Pod
5 man Tactical Squad Drop Pod
9 man Tactical Squad (Iron Hands) Drop Pod

Fast Attack
Storm Talon w/Skyhammer ML
Storm Talon w/Skyhammer ML
Storm Talon w/Skyhammer ML

Heavy Support
Storm Raven Hurricane Bolters
Storm Raven Hurricane Bolters
Storm Raven Hurricane Bolters

Deployment :
If I go first, Iron Hands squad is joined by MotF. 10 man ultramarine squad is joined by inquisitor and Tigurius . 2 Drop pods come down turn 1. Flyers come on turn 2.

If I go second, nothing starts on the board. Inquisitor will deep strike to join a squad on turn 2. Everything comes on turn 2.

just so you know, 2 drop pods come in first turn, and being your only troops, may get shot to hell and back, tbh thats the biggest thing I see atm.

I thought if you had no models on the board you lose? Surely you would lose before you started?

^

Make sure you go second then!

Your list is a bit more hardcore than mine for 1800 on the flier front. I have more on the board to prevent being battered/tabled first turn.

That said, if you pod in carefully... it's a nice list.

I'm allied with guard and have the following:

5 Tactical Marines
10 Scouts - w/Tigurius

Drop pod w/ Sternguard

Stormtalon
Stormtalon
Stormtalon

Stormraven w/Vanguard

Primaris Psyker

Vendetta w/ Vet squad
Vendetta


Automatically Appended Next Post:

SpankingApe wrote:
I thought if you had no models on the board you lose? Surely you would lose before you started?

If you have no models by the end of the game turn then you lose.

However, you can only have up to half (rounded up). Units in reserve.

SpankingApe wrote:
I thought if you had no models on the board you lose? Surely you would lose before you started?

That is correct, but he'll be angling to get 2nd, that way he has 2 drop pods appear on his first turn (no shooting bar interceptor shots) in his opponent's turn the opponent kills the drop pods + marines? 2nd turn all the fliers turn up and trash stuff.

List looks linteresting, I'd consider some scouts with your remaining points to hide/infiltrate incase you get 1st turn. Also having first turn will be rough.

Of the 4 units (Tig and 3 tac squads) which can't reserve. Two need to start on the board.

not true, drop pod units do not count normally, if they are in pods they all start in reserve.

Edit....
Turn One Strategy
Start with the 5 man tactical on the board -- preferably hiding in ruins or behind a LoS blocker. The goal here is to have something that will cause my opponent to want to steal the initiative or something that will help keep me from getting tabled turn 2.

On my turn one, I drop my pods far apart onto objectives, taking advantage of LoS blockers when possible. Tiggy drops down with the 9 man squad.

This will give me one 10 man squad and three 5 man squads dropped on turn one. That plus two drop pods can be fairly rough to shift at range.

This gets easier if night fighting is rolled for first turn.


Turn Two Strategy
Start with nothing on the board. Put the 5 marines inside a stormraven for deep striking later on. Turn one drop as before -- defensively onto objectives. On turn two the army comes on and hopefully can do some work.

In both cases the third pod stays out as long as possible with the intention of objective grabbing or contesting their back end objectives.

 raiden wrote:
not true, drop pod units do not count normally, if they are in pods they all start in reserve.

Are drop pods the exception to the rule?

smithy12262 wrote:

 raiden wrote:
not true, drop pod units do not count normally, if they are in pods they all start in reserve.

Are drop pods the exception to the rule?

Yes. Like flyers they must start in reserve so do not count for your total limit.

Yeah, that was my understanding.

But the units inside them do count to your total limit. So if there were 4 storm ravens with 4 units inside. 2 of those units would need to start on the table.

thats not what I read, units that must go into reserve do not count towards total reserve limit, this is how you pull off full drop pod armies.

smithy12262 wrote:
Yeah, that was my understanding.

But the units inside them do count to your total limit. So if there were 4 storm ravens with 4 units inside. 2 of those units would need to start on the table.

p99 of C:SM codex
"Drop Pods and units embarked upon them must be held in reserve ..."

p124 BRB
'Units that must start the game in reserve are ignored for the purposes of working out how many other units may do so"

That's how you see armies made up entirely of drop pods.

Drop pod armies are viable because they come in turn one.
Flier armies aren't because they come in turn two+.

smithy12262 , in the list you showed you have 6 flyers. Have you found any problems come from that?

I was going with Tiggy as he comes with a comm-relay. Do you have something akin to that?

I've also got Tigurius in there.

I placed all of my units outside of LoS turn 1, so reagrdless of what happens, his turn 1 is essentially wasted.

I escort all of the other units with the Talons, so they don't show up piecemeal. Additionally, with 6 fliers, I aim for all of their AA, so most if not all fliers can escape unharmed.

Do you listen to podcasts? If so, check out #182 11th company podcast (it should come out late next week or the week after).
My next simhammer segment will be on reserve rolls and the escort ability.
Surprisingly enough, escorting is actually a bad thing!

#===========================================================#

Q: Do units that are transported in a vehicle that MUST start in
reserve count towards the number of units that can be placed in
Reserves? For example, must I count the units in a Drop Pod or
Valkyrie towards the 50% of units I can place in Reserves?
(p124)
A: No.

This FAQ mentions Valkyries which cannot be taken as dedicated transports. This means that if you indicate that Tiggy is in the Drop Pod and the 5 man is in a Storm Raven, both of those units are in transports which must start in reserve. Thus, it is possible for you to have no units counting towards the minimum.
~ Faceknight

That's an education! Thanks very much.

So by going second and having a drop pod surviving, I can essentially waste their turn 1.

Yeah they get a turn with nothing to shoot at. Gold

Cool looking list. It would be really fun to run that against necron flying circus, show them who`s king in the sky

I would find the pts for extra armour on the ravens. Getting stunned as a flyer pretty much equals a dead flyer, and now it is only 5pts, well worth it for such an expensive flyer.

The load-out on your tacs seems a bit weird to me, just a missile launcher?

also, if you fit in sicarius, you get +1 to all reserve rolls

 Illumini wrote:
Cool looking list. It would be really fun to run that against necron flying circus, show them who`s king in the sky

I would find the pts for extra armour on the ravens. Getting stunned as a flyer pretty much equals a dead flyer, and now it is only 5pts, well worth it for such an expensive flyer.

The load-out on your tacs seems a bit weird to me, just a missile launcher?

I've made a few changes since this weekend. At the time I was just trying to fill points. That's a good point on the extra armor, I'll take a look at it.

HQ
Tigurius
CM w/Primarch's Wrath, Armor Indominus, Power Axe, Melta Bomb

Fast Attack
Storm Talon w/Skyhammer
Storm Talon w/Skyhammer
Storm Talon w/Skyhammer

Heavy
Storm Raven w/Hurricane Bolters
Storm Raven w/Hurricane Bolters
Storm Raven w/Hurricane Bolters

Troops
9 man Tactical Squad (UM), Drop Pod
10 Tactical Squad (UM) Drop Pod
Tactical Squad (IH) Drop Pod

- The firepower it can produce is amazing. I would come onto the board and just evaporate squads
- Moving that many flyers can be very tricky. On a deployment like hammer and anvil you must be very careful.
- You can place your flyer bases 2" apart to prevent enemies from passing under you to assault your units on the ground. This was a neat trick I used by placing 3 talons in a line. That created a 14.5" that my opponent could not move through. He could not get within 12" of my drop pod to even try an assault.
- My first game I put a MotF into the drop pod and tried to use that to survive. I later switched to a CM. I might go back to two MotF's instead (one in each pod) The idea is this -- one wound at a 2+ save is as hard to remove as 2 wounds at a 3+ save.
- Some people won't want to play you. Its not as much fun when one guy has 6 flyers and you have none.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 raiden wrote:
also, if you fit in sicarius, you get +1 to all reserve rolls

With Tigurious its not as needed. A 8/9 chance of getting them is pretty good. However, Sicarius can get out and punch something. I'll take a look at him. And a 5/6 chance of reserve is pretty darn tasty.

Edit
#=====================================================================#
The skies of death list with 3 ravens and 3 talons will put out this every turn.
36 - TL Bolter Shots
12 - TL BS5 AC shots
12 - TL BS4 AC shots
3 - TL MM shots
3 - STR 8 AP2 missiles
9 - BS 5 STR 7 AP4 shots.

When it comes to damage output against infantry, you need to have 7 wave serpents to match the firepower*. Both armies can put out a tremendous amount of firepower, enough to erase enemy units at a time.

Unlike the wave serpents which bring just STR 6/7 spam, the skies of death brings lots of AP1 shots, 3 melta shots and lots of AP4 shots. This means that the overall impact to some armies (guard) will be much higher.

The serpents will cause 7 pinning tests a turn, where the skies of death will only deliver 3 pinning tests a turn.

Which is more durable? Stay tuned for another post....

( That's 7 serpents shooting just serpent shield and SL. If you include the underslung shooting at normal BS, 5 serpents match the same firepower. If you include the underslung shooting as a snap fire, 6 serpents make the same firepower)

Edit
#=====================================================================#
This takes a lot of finesse to learn how to play and run. I expect that it will be a long time before I figure it all out.

I suggest droping the armor indomitus for a shield eternal so he can tank for the squad. overall looks deadly.

My idea of the armor was that I could use the 2+ save on turn 1 to ensure I was not blown off the table -- but I'm thinking the EW might be more useful.

3 - STR 8 AP2 missiles

I believe you can fire 2 missiles a turn from the Storm Raven (using up all 4 missiles by the end of turn 2), but that would make

6 - STR 8 AP2 missiles

If you needed it.

I'm happy to be corrected if I'm wrong on that.

You can but your limited to just 5 weapons per turn per raven before you have to start snap shooting.
(technically 4, but you also get PotMS)

So lets say that your shooting at terminators, you can decide to snap fire a hurricane bolter and give another missile a go.

That's one of the nice perks -- you can custimize what your going to shoot at. You can shoot more missiles if needed.

You also have a lot of options for reserve manipulation. You could start with 2 squads on the board if your going first, and then drop 2 empty pods. You could drop just 3 empty pods at the start and put everything inside the storm ravens, for example. If my opponent was playing an assault army with no shooting and I went first, that's what my plan would be. He could not assault the pods till turn 2, when my army would be coming onboard.

That is a neat trick with the pods actually. nice idea

I really like your new list. Though if you wanted the TFC in it could be amazing to use as your bait unit to start on the board. I do however think that the new list gives you much better scoring abilities with the nearly invulnerable CM to tank. I would put the shield eternal + artificer (or termie) on him as with 4 wounds, EW, 2+/3++, 6+ FnP, and IWND he becomes an entire army of resilience in and of himself.

Alternate List Idea with Eldar Allies. The idea here is to switch to iron hands and utilize an Autoarch for reserve manipulation and to go with Iron Hands for IWND on the vehicles.

HQ
MotF
Autoarch w/Bike and Fusion Gun

Troops
3 Guardian Jetbikes
6 Tactical Marines w/Drop Pod
10 Tactical Marines w/Drop Pod
10 Tactical Marines w/Drop Pod

Fast Attack
Storm talon w/Skyhammer
Storm talon w/Skyhammer
Storm talon w/Skyhammer
Crimson Hunter

Heavy Support
Storm Raven w/Hurricane bolters
Storm Raven w/Hurricane bolters
Storm Raven w/Hurricane bolters

Edit :
Alas, this will not work as per the FAQ.
Q: Do modifiers that apply to such things as Reserve Rolls, apply to units from an allied detachment?
A: No

Jamo wrote:
Yeah they get a turn with nothing to shoot at. Gold

I guess you guys missed this post on reddit.

Player 1 (white shirt, henceforth called Wheels) is a Warhammer powergamer. His gimmick is to hold his entire army in reserve. The opponent will be forced to deploy conservatively, since Wheels' side of the field will be empty. At the beginning of his first turn, Wheels will deploy his entire force in a compact "spearhead", then advance and pierce the enemy line at its weakest point.

Player 2 (black shirt, let's call him Shooter) is aware of Wheels' gimmick.

During the normal deployment/setup phase, Shooter places his commander on the field. In Warhammer, two players are supposed to take turns - deploying and counter-deploying until everything is on the field. However, Wheels announces that he's deploying nothing - he'll hold his entire force in reserve (as he planned all along). Shooter places a row of scouts into a single thin skirmish line covering Wheels' entire edge of the table. Scouts can be deployed anywhere, but anti-cheese rules prevent him putting a scout within 30 cm of an opposing unit, but there are no opposing units anywhere on the field and so the rule is moot. Tactically, these scouts are fethed - they have no cover, no support, and they're on open ground. As soon as the opposing cavalry takes the field, these guys will die. The deployment phase ends. It's now Wheels' turn. Shooter informs him that the game is over. Wheels can't actually deploy any of his motorcycles - anti-cheese rules prevent him from placing a reserve unit within 5cm of an enemy model. There isn't a single 5cm gap anywhere on Wheels' edge of the field. Wheels' entire force is doomed to sit uselessly "in reserve" until the game ends, at which point he'll lose automatically because Shooter controls the entire map. The tournament officials declared that Shooter's interpretation of the rules was technically correct and granted him the victory. And now you know why Shooter is smiling while Wheels is poring over a rulebook.