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Hi all,

I have taken the plunge and am currently nearly finished in my construction of five riptides for my Farsight & Tau Empire allies list at 1650+ points.

First, please don't be too down on my beardiness - I play in a group of good friends, who are all uber competitive, so the nature of the list isn't likely to offend!

Second, I am obviously running O'vesa as my first of the five Riptides, but my real question is - thinking of the army core as the five riptides, a buff commander and Farsight, what would you arm each of the riptides with?

Also, what weaknesses would you expect from your combination of load-outs at, for example, 1650, which I think is the lowest level at which this list can feasibly run? I am well aware of the deficiencies that I have in my lists in terms of troops and support units, but am going for a quite rugged and surprisingly fast army that will throw opponents off-guard?

Currently, I am planning to magnetise the models, but I have a tournament very, very soon and so was just after some fresh perspective on what combination of Primary and secondary weapons (and systems) you would run.

Obviously, the core of the army is a unit with O'Vesa and the buff commander attached, to get all of the buffs into one hard to shift unit with the PEN chip/MSS/C&C Node Specialist systems.

So, enough Waffle, I am currently planning to run:

O'Vesa (IC riptide, no option to change) Armed with Ion Accelerator, fusion blasters, EWO, Earth Caste Array, Stimulant injectors, 2x Missile Drone

Riptide 1: Armed with Ion Accelerator, fusion blasters, target lock, EWO (joins O'vesa star)

Riptide 2: Armed with Ion Accelerator, fusion blasters, EWO, Talisman of Arthos Moloch

Riptide 3: Armed with Heavy Burst Cannon, fusion blasters, EWO, Velocity tracker

Riptide 4: Armed with Heavy Burst Cannon, SMS, EWO

Currently, I am toying with 4xIon and 1xHBC, or 3 and 2 as listed above. I have also tried to squeeze in some SMS systems, as I feel they are great against hidey little units (looking at you, jet bikes!).

So, any thoughts on the best combo of loadouts would be great!

NR

I would do the 3 Ion and 2 Burst. Just so they don't have mixed roles, I would put SMS on the HBC Riptides only.

I would do what the guy from Nova did and put a HBC Riptide with a Target Lock in the unit with O'Vesa, that way you get a HBC thats TL, Ignores Cover, and Tank/Monster Hunter.

Lucarikx

Man, I can see you haven't shaved in a while. Your beard is touching the ground. LOL! j.k.

Don't forget you also need a unit of 3 suits.

Yeah, get Target Lock for the unit that is going to be attached to O'vesa + Buffmander. Get Hit-&-Run for your Buffmander and give the majority of your riptides SMS. It is just so much better IMO.

 Lucarikx wrote:
I would do the 3 Ion and 2 Burst. Just so they don't have mixed roles, I would put SMS on the HBC Riptides only.

I would do what the guy from Nova did and put a HBC Riptide with a Target Lock in the unit with O'Vesa, that way you get a HBC thats TL, Ignores Cover, and Tank/Monster Hunter.

Lucarikx

The HBC suit with the FB's is designed for anti-air, as needed, so I figured that Fusions can serve a dual purpose here, allowing me to still make use of the HBC against other targets or double up against a single flyer/tank.

Yeah, I could definitely add a target lock to one of the HBC riptides; unfortunately, not to the one with skyfire, unless he loses the ability to intercept flyers :-/

Thanks Lucarikx

Edit: @Jy2, yup, you can assume the buffmander is all suited and booted, and my beard is being carried by two dwarfs with equally bearded presences...

Its more about how best to kit the big suits, I do really like SMS's but don't know if I will be leaving myself short if I go with three on all those suits not joining the 'star.

NR

Put two of them back on the shelf for the sake of list balanace to start off.

One of the bigger problems you're going to find in competitive play isn't monoliths or land raiders. Rather, it's those darn 3-man jetbike units or 5-man necron units hiding on an objective behind LOS-blocking terrain or fire warriors and other troops behind the 2+ g-t-g cover Aegis. That's why the SMS are better. It speaks volumes about your army build. Haha!

If you want to go with fusions as well, I'd go with 3 SMS + 2 fusions. You can put fusions on the ones that you plan to play more aggressively with (i.e. the ones that you are planning to advance).

iGuy91 wrote:Put two of them back on the shelf for the sake of list balanace to start off.

Lol, not quite what I was after - I know that 5 riptides offers deficiencies that four wouldn't, but thats the core of the list I am going to get running. Like many lists at the moment in competitive play, I know it isn't balanced, but I think that it could do well against a balanced Tau list, for example?

jy2 wrote:One of the bigger problems you're going to find in competitive play isn't monoliths or land raiders. Rather, it's those darn 3-man jetbike units or 5-man necron units hiding on an objective behind LOS-blocking terrain or fire warriors and other troops behind the 2+ g-t-g cover Aegis. That's why the SMS are better.

If you want to go with fusions as well, I'd go with 3 SMS + 2 fusions. You can put fusions on the ones that you plan to play more aggressively with (i.e. the ones that you are planning to advance).

Yeah, Eldar have been my main alternate for a long time now and Im aware how painful last-minute turbo-boosting can be :-) Good call on the roles for each riptide!

NR

Give O'Vesa an HBC to take full advantage of the ECPA.

You can't change what O'Vesa has, which is the Ion Accelerator.

Lucarikx

 Lucarikx wrote:
You can't change what O'Vesa has, which is the Ion Accelerator.

Lucarikx

Ah... I have been... misinformed....
Apologies

@Tactical_Genius, oh, how I wish I could swap :-s Never mind!

As for the loadouts, I think that I'm going to run 2xIA and FB, 1xIA and SMS, 2xHBC and SMS. I am running the Talisman as per my earlier post, and as no-one seemed to think it was too little, I am also running a single Velocity tracker suit with a 'cannon.

I have a tournament at the weekend (painting is on overdrive at the moment!!!) so I will try and post back some feedback, although I think my scoring will be pretty lame, the only real weakness of Tau :-(

NR

Hrm.

A list like this would not surprise me, I have been waiting to see someone go all Riptides for a while now. I don't know Tau weapons systems well enough to advise you on what to equip, but I can tell you how I would fight them.

As a Chaos player, my strategy versus Riptides is always to cause a morale check. Get something in there with a Daemon weapon and get at least a couple wounds on them. I have run more Riptides off the board than I have killed them in cc.

The real weakness I see here is against fast attack units. Like, If I knew you were bringing this list, I would load up on raptors and bring dual jump pack CLs. I might switch out a CL for a sorcerer and to go for something nasty under telepathy. In terms of troops, I would probably use the Black Legion codex and get Chosen with heavy weapons. If it's a 2,000 point game, I would get an additional CL and more raptors.

But that's about all I can think of. My all-comers lists would not do well here.

You might need to arm them with an "opponent magnet" given some of the threads on Dakka lately.

Well, you are going to have a bunch of unsupported Riptides. You are spending ~1400pts on the Riptides, O'Vesa, Farsight, and a support Commander. You are left with little else if you are playing around the 1850 area. Your troops will be sorely lacking, unsupported Riptides do not have that high of a damage output. The O'VesaStar does, but not the extra Riptides. The 4 Riptide and 3 Riptide versions of the O'VesaStar are more competitive. Good players will laugh at seeing five Riptides.


To answer your question though...

Farsight
O'Vesa
HBC VT TL TLFB Riptide with Talisman
BuffCommander Iridium, MSS, Pen, C&CN, Retro Thrusters, Onager, Neuroweb

HBC VT EWO
IA SMS EWO
IA SMS EWO

Make sure you give them all FNP, as you will need to use the Nova reactor to boost their damage and shield alot. Most of your answer depends on your meta.

Fragile wrote:
Make sure you give them all FNP, as you will need to use the Nova reactor to boost their damage and shield alot. Most of your answer depends on your meta.

No, that is a terrible idea. FNP is much more effective if you are fielding a limited number of Riptides. With 5, his good opponents are already going to be ignoring the unsupported Riptides already and O'Vesa already has a Stim Injector.

If he was fielding two or even three Riptides FNP is viable, but with five its a waste of poitns.

As others have said, 5 Riptides is a bit too much. You will struggle immensely in objective games. Just make sure you pair the HBC and VT together to take care of flyers including flying daemons and also include Early Warning Overide for interceptor on an Ion Accelerator. As for Troops you need at least a unit of 3 crisis suits for one and single crisis suits after that for Farsight Enclave. Your Tau Empire will probably be good with a squad of Kroot. Personally I would arm them with snipers but this is just my preference, other players may want to outflank them and bring them on the side. A good list will look something like this:

Farsight
O'Vesa
2 Riptides (1 with IA & EWO, 1 with HBC & VT)
Crisis Team (3 memebers)
Crisis Suits (Single Models)

Tau Buffmander
1 Riptide (IA)
Squad of Kroot

Hey all, thanks for the replies!

Zagman wrote:Well, you are going to have a bunch of unsupported Riptides. You are spending ~1400pts on the Riptides, O'Vesa, Farsight, and a support Commander. You are left with little else if you are playing around the 1850 area. Your troops will be sorely lacking, unsupported Riptides do not have that high of a damage output. The O'VesaStar does, but not the extra Riptides. The 4 Riptide and 3 Riptide versions of the O'VesaStar are more competitive. Good players will laugh at seeing five Riptides.

I'm actually playing at 1650 this weekend... So yeah, my support is a little lacking. However, I'm not going for the über crazy power list - something fun, that looks cool, that hits hard. I think this can work.

I'm probably going to start another IA suit with the Buffmander initially and work from there, I don't agree that many opponents will laugh at 5 - I'm not a newbie either, I'm going to be using the whole force as a pressure tool. IMO you don't sit back and snipe, getting into the teeth of wave serpents, mech etc will force tough choices for my opponents that won't always be right.

To answer your question though...

Farsight
O'Vesa
HBC VT TL TLFB Riptide with Talisman
BuffCommander Iridium, MSS, Pen, C&CN, Retro Thrusters, Onager, Neuroweb

HBC VT EWO
IA SMS EWO
IA SMS EWO

Running everything but the multiple EWOs at the moment, and my commander is lacking the neuroseb. I'm interested that you think so many EWOs are needed?

Zagman wrote:

Fragile wrote:
Make sure you give them all FNP, as you will need to use the Nova reactor to boost their damage and shield alot. Most of your answer depends on your meta.

No, that is a terrible idea. FNP is much more effective if you are fielding a limited number of Riptides. With 5, his good opponents are already going to be ignoring the unsupported Riptides already and O'Vesa already has a Stim Injector.

If he was fielding two or even three Riptides FNP is viable, but with five its a waste of poitns.

Agreed, I can't afford 140pts just for FNP!

DarthOvious wrote:As others have said, 5 Riptides is a bit too much. You will struggle immensely in objective games. Just make sure you pair the HBC and VT together to take care of flyers including flying daemons and also include Early Warning Overide for interceptor on an Ion Accelerator. As for Troops you need at least a unit of 3 crisis suits for one and single crisis suits after that for Farsight Enclave. Your Tau Empire will probably be good with a squad of Kroot. Personally I would arm them with snipers but this is just my preference, other players may want to outflank them and bring them on the side. A good list will look something like this:

Farsight
O'Vesa
2 Riptides (1 with IA & EWO, 1 with HBC & VT)
Crisis Team (3 memebers)
Crisis Suits (Single Models)

Tau Buffmander
1 Riptide (IA)
Squad of Kroot

Add another riptide, you nearly have my list at 1650! :-)

Thanks for all the replies. It's useful to see what people,e think of lists and combos for the suits, as I first posted, I'm aware if the limitations having all 5 riptides brings. I just want to see if I can make it work!

NR

5 Riptides? Lol. There was an old Hallmark Cards commercial and their theme was "When you care to send the very best".

With 5 Riptides it's "When you care to send IN the very best". Sheesh.

I would take ion Cannons 100% of the time. on all 5 if you can. I'll take my chances on scatter. Truly. This is a table or lose type army kinda like the crazy Death Company lists people tried when Blood Angels first came out.

I think the missiles on RippleFire do a fine job, fine enough that i wouldn't wory about Burst Cannons even though they are terrific also. I think the Ion Cannons will do enough good work not to necessitate other armaments. Saves you points for the Skyfire you'll want. Make Hellturkeys pay for their insolence.

Oh one other thing you might want in this list: A copy of How to Win Friends and Influence People. Might need it after the game.

Go somewhere you can use Forgeworld and take 2 R'Varnas

Go on....

Interesting - you don't think a single HBC out if the five would be useful, over ripple-fire SMSs? I am also of the mindset that throwing AP2 templates at people can be unnerving and help me along a little.

One more thing, as it seems to keep coming up - my friends and I play hard lists, that aren't meant for fluff! we enjoy tough gaming, and if I play a six game tournament and lose every game with the list, then it or my tactics will need some improvement, but I'm not a complete douche - I've yet to fall out with someone over toy soldiers!

NR

 Zagman wrote:

Fragile wrote:
Make sure you give them all FNP, as you will need to use the Nova reactor to boost their damage and shield alot. Most of your answer depends on your meta.

No, that is a terrible idea. FNP is much more effective if you are fielding a limited number of Riptides. With 5, his good opponents are already going to be ignoring the unsupported Riptides already and O'Vesa already has a Stim Injector.

If he was fielding two or even three Riptides FNP is viable, but with five its a waste of poitns.

His opponent wont be ignoring the Riptides, because that is about all he is going to be able to field. He will just concentrate fire on one and bring it down, rinse and repeat. The FNP gives a reasonable chance for the Rips to survive the quality shooting (AP 1/2) .

But really, this isnt a competitive list much anyways, so play it how you like.

Fragile wrote:

 Zagman wrote:

Fragile wrote:
Make sure you give them all FNP, as you will need to use the Nova reactor to boost their damage and shield alot. Most of your answer depends on your meta.

No, that is a terrible idea. FNP is much more effective if you are fielding a limited number of Riptides. With 5, his good opponents are already going to be ignoring the unsupported Riptides already and O'Vesa already has a Stim Injector.

If he was fielding two or even three Riptides FNP is viable, but with five its a waste of poitns.

His opponent wont be ignoring the Riptides, because that is about all he is going to be able to field. He will just concentrate fire on one and bring it down, rinse and repeat. The FNP gives a reasonable chance for the Rips to survive the quality shooting (AP 1/2) .

But really, this isnt a competitive list much anyways, so play it how you like.

No, I'm pretty sure the opponent will kill the maybe five scoring suits and making losing the game a non issue.

Adding Stim Injectors to all of his Riptides will basically make his list effectively impossible to field at the points level he is attempting to play.

I will reiterate, the opponent will not be firing on the Riptides unless he has no viable target, which yes, will happen 1st turn as all of the troops will be reserved. The opponent doesn't need to kill the Riptides to win, not even a little. Fast CC element armies, especially resilient ones, will be a nightmare for this list. For an example of such a list look at jy2's Herald Hammer Daemon's list. If it goes first, it will devastate a Riptide Spam army. Going second, it probably still will. One reliable Pie Plate and two Gets Hot BS3 ones will not stop an army like that, not even a little.

Nightrunner wrote:
Interesting - you don't think a single HBC out if the five would be useful, over ripple-fire SMSs? I am also of the mindset that throwing AP2 templates at people can be unnerving and help me along a little.

One more thing, as it seems to keep coming up - my friends and I play hard lists, that aren't meant for fluff! we enjoy tough gaming, and if I play a six game tournament and lose every game with the list, then it or my tactics will need some improvement, but I'm not a complete douche - I've yet to fall out with someone over toy soldiers!

NR

As for sms: yup. I think so. Ap2 large blasts handle everything.

As for hard gaming: cool. My orientation is towards tourney play so I approach the game that way, but amongst buddies, whatever you guys are cool with is cool. Sadly the ugly side of human nature and gamer whininess requires one to be careful not to get tooooooo cheeky lest they deep six your sports score. I wish it werent so, but as it turns out, tabling people doesnt win you tournies, just ill will. But i get that you guys like extre lists and i give in occassionally to play those.

I'd say hobby wise, arms them with magnets, plenty of magnets so that you can change up your builds as your forces evolve.

Gamewise, just take 4 and perhaps only one HBC/fusion with skyfire and interceptor. And 2 with Ion/sms with interceptor. With oves'a being your 4th. I don't care how many uber units you bring to most games. Troops still win most games.

Nightrunner wrote:
Interesting - you don't think a single HBC out if the five would be useful, over ripple-fire SMSs? I am also of the mindset that throwing AP2 templates at people can be unnerving and help me along a little.

One more thing, as it seems to keep coming up - my friends and I play hard lists, that aren't meant for fluff! we enjoy tough gaming, and if I play a six game tournament and lose every game with the list, then it or my tactics will need some improvement, but I'm not a complete douche - I've yet to fall out with someone over toy soldiers!

NR

If you're not playing objective games then you'll not be too hamstringed. The five Riptides thing is something I am more inclined to try in Apocalypse.

 Jancoran wrote:

Nightrunner wrote:
Interesting - you don't think a single HBC out if the five would be useful, over ripple-fire SMSs? I am also of the mindset that throwing AP2 templates at people can be unnerving and help me along a little.

One more thing, as it seems to keep coming up - my friends and I play hard lists, that aren't meant for fluff! we enjoy tough gaming, and if I play a six game tournament and lose every game with the list, then it or my tactics will need some improvement, but I'm not a complete douche - I've yet to fall out with someone over toy soldiers!

NR

As for sms: yup. I think so. Ap2 large blasts handle everything.

As for hard gaming: cool. My orientation is towards tourney play so I approach the game that way, but amongst buddies, whatever you guys are cool with is cool. Sadly the ugly side of human nature and gamer whininess requires one to be careful not to get tooooooo cheeky lest they deep six your sports score. I wish it werent so, but as it turns out, tabling people doesnt win you tournies, just ill will. But i get that you guys like extre lists and i give in occassionally to play those.

Except Flyers and FMCs. IA Riptides are far far less effective vs airborne targets.

 Zagman wrote:

Except Flyers and FMCs. IA Riptides are far far less effective vs airborne targets.

Exactly and theres where the HBC with Velocity Tracker comes in handy, not to mention including the ECPA with it as well to give it more reliability to novacharge.

 DarthOvious wrote:

 Zagman wrote:

Except Flyers and FMCs. IA Riptides are far far less effective vs airborne targets.

Exactly and theres where the HBC with Velocity Tracker comes in handy, not to mention including the ECPA with it as well to give it more reliability to novacharge.

I completely agree, but the person I was responding to was recommending all IA. I like the HBC Riptide.

People are forgetting to mention another weakness of this army, the susceptibility to the Instant Death Rule or other shenanigans that would take out a Riptide in relatively few shots.

I wouldn't run this list as my LGC already despises my three Riptides, but I am curious to see how it works at your tournament. Good luck!