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 gossipmeng wrote:
It also depends on how bad the holes are. Almost any resin is going to have minor imperfections in the casting. If we are talking tiny bubbles on the inside of a thigh that we will never see.... that is just nitpicking. It is reasonable to want a replacement part or model if a face has a massive hole in it though.

I disagree.

If I buy a blender (or anything) and its dented I will return it until I get a new one or my money back, sure I could live with it and sure I could try to fix it, but that isn't the point, the point is you were sold a defective and shoddy product. For a company that claims to be the finest miniature company in the world, their QC should be through the roof, not at 66% fail rate.

If anyone can produce a cast without bubbles, then it should be GW who are the biggest company, market leader, and claim to be the best manufacturer.

Dodgy casts for a few bucks from a garage caster is fair enough, dodgy casts from the market leader for $20+ is a joke.

However, if I were to get a cast that was non-visibly damaged I'd probably just stick with it, as the risk of the replacement being worse is always there.

Small bubbles in resin are like mould lines on plastic. It's just part of the nature of the material. Yes we could insist upon GW cleaning every model before selling; however we'd likely see the prices soar up to insane numbers and the fulfilment times lengthen with likely stock problems (at least until the prices rise high enough to greatly expand their working staff).

Everyone agrees that if the bubbles cause loss of detail or are of a significantly large size then yes its a replacement matter, but a few small holes that take a few moments with liquid green-stuff to patch are just part of the hobby. Same way that we oft put a little greenstuff on the joints of models to smooth over any minor gaps.

Small bubbles in resin are an artefact of air in the mixture, and can be dealt with by vacuum casting, vibration plates and channels. The only reason you should have bubbles in resin casts is if you're rushing them or the moulds are badly designed.

Yes you'll probably always get the occasional bubble in a production run, but that's what the QC is there for; to catch and discard bad casts. I've seen the casts that other companies throw a way, and they blow GW's released stuff out of the water.

I've also got plenty of resin figures that don't have any bubbles whatsoever.

 Overread wrote:
Small bubbles in resin are like mould lines on plastic. It's just part of the nature of the material. Yes we could insist upon GW cleaning every model before selling; however we'd likely see the prices soar up to insane numbers and the fulfilment times lengthen with likely stock problems (at least until the prices rise high enough to greatly expand their working staff).

Everyone agrees that if the bubbles cause loss of detail or are of a significantly large size then yes its a replacement matter, but a few small holes that take a few moments with liquid green-stuff to patch are just part of the hobby. Same way that we oft put a little greenstuff on the joints of models to smooth over any minor gaps.

They really, really aren't...

I have resin models from PP, BF, Spartan, FW and I didn't get any air bubbles in any of those models.

PhantomViper wrote:

 Overread wrote:
Small bubbles in resin are like mould lines on plastic. It's just part of the nature of the material. Yes we could insist upon GW cleaning every model before selling; however we'd likely see the prices soar up to insane numbers and the fulfilment times lengthen with likely stock problems (at least until the prices rise high enough to greatly expand their working staff).

Everyone agrees that if the bubbles cause loss of detail or are of a significantly large size then yes its a replacement matter, but a few small holes that take a few moments with liquid green-stuff to patch are just part of the hobby. Same way that we oft put a little greenstuff on the joints of models to smooth over any minor gaps.

They really, really aren't...

I have resin models from PP, BF, Spartan, FW and I didn't get any air bubbles in any of those models.

But but they are.
I've models from Spartan too - most have no bubbles at all but a couple do. Head over the Forge World and Privateer Press websites and the guides for working with their models both include mention of fixing minor air bubbles in the resin. Yes you can get resin without any at all; just like you can get metal models with little to no visible mould lines - but that doesn't mean that it doesn't happen nor does it automatically mean that its a defect (for what its worth most of the bubbles I've seen on Spartan models were on the ships on the underside - ergo on the base where it really didn't matter one bit that they were present - I'd argue that their resin setup is likely superior to FW and PP - although I say that with the caution that Spartan is often producing much smaller sculpts in general whilst the others use them for much large chunks of model which might affect how the material settles in the molds).

Flash and the odd bubble are pretty much part of most resin kits now.
As with the usual warped sections on thin items like weapon hafts. (usually spears)

To be honest though, ive had one bad cast so far and that was a tyrant guard.
He looked fluffy due to a really bad mould and the resin didnt seem to fill it properly.

Ive now spent around £800 or so at a quick count up on resin products from GW and FW, and only 2 real issues.

2nd one was a miscast leg on my squiggoth which made it look like an amputee.

So yea, might be good luck or that the portsmouth store has decent finecast, but i never have issues with it

It is also possible that the store does the QC that GW doesn't.

A good store does check the merchandise, at least if they have the time.

The Auld Grump

Good point, a store will see significantly less stock than the distribution centre so there is the potential at the shop for the staff to add another round of quality control checks ontop of what happens at the factory. Dealing with defects early on means more chance for happy customers

 TheAuldGrump wrote:
It is also possible that the store does the QC that GW doesn't.

A good store does check the merchandise, at least if they have the time.

The Auld Grump

Or wherever possible. Sentry box has never had any warped or bad blisters so far as I've seen. But the closed up boxes? Who knows, you might be getting something that looks more like melted Swiss cheese. I would have bought more fine cast if I could have seen into the box, but my one and only and last purchase of fine cast were the csm raptors. After exchanging them, I still don't know what to do with them now, they have the same balancing issues the old metal ones do... Maybe I'll sell off some of my iron warriors and make room for some melee chosen....

 Overread wrote:
Small bubbles in resin are like mould lines on plastic. It's just part of the nature of the material.

This is not true. Air bubbles are a byproduct of poor technique and when they wind up in the hands of customers, poor QC. I understand that it's in Games Workshop's best interests to push the idea that resin is inherently bubbly, but it is factually incorrect to say so.

You might say that small bubbles are commonly experienced in resin products, and that is more accurate; but saying it's inherent to the material is wholly oblivious to the fact that if you get 10 models from Maxmini, 10 models from Kromlech, 10 models from Anvil, 10 models from Mad Robot Minis, 10 models from from Forge World, and 10 Finecast models from GWS; and spread sheet out the flaws, you will find virtually all of the problems in the latter two. There is a reason for that and that reason is not the intrinsic properties of resin.

As an aside, isn't it sad that these finecast threads still show up? It's been what, 2 and a half years? It's clear at this point the decision was made that "there is no reason to feed them steak, when they'll eat shiat."

 Ravenous D wrote:

 gossipmeng wrote:
It also depends on how bad the holes are. Almost any resin is going to have minor imperfections in the casting. If we are talking tiny bubbles on the inside of a thigh that we will never see.... that is just nitpicking. It is reasonable to want a replacement part or model if a face has a massive hole in it though.

I disagree.

If I buy a blender (or anything) and its dented I will return it until I get a new one or my money back, sure I could live with it and sure I could try to fix it, but that isn't the point, the point is you were sold a defective and shoddy product. For a company that claims to be the finest miniature company in the world, their QC should be through the roof, not at 66% fail rate.

even for plastic kits, nothing's perfect, it's just a pile of plastic sprues.
it doesnt usually go together seamlessly. on vehicles you would have to sand and smooth everything with green stuff to get a perfect surface. and there's mold lines.

I hate finecast as much as the next guy but you arnt buying a blender. youre buying a bunch of mass produced crap that they shoved into a box. youre the one who's supposed to make it look pretty, maybe you missed the memo.

 Ouze wrote:

As an aside, isn't it sad that these finecast threads still show up? It's been what, 2 and a half years? It's clear at this point the decision was made that "there is no reason to feed them steak, when they'll eat shiat."

This is the saddest thing about it for me too, in that it could have lead to a dropping of standards across not just GW but the industry as a whole. Fortunately, part of the reasons forums such as this exist is to help to discuss and point out how there is such a difference between a high grade of beef and said excrement

Bubbles in resin are not 'part of the process'

It comes from not casting properly or rushing the process due to casting quotas to fulfil.

l know plenty of guys who can cast resin with no faults. But they do not work to a quota system where X models must be cast in a given time.

 Overread wrote:

PhantomViper wrote:

 Overread wrote:
Small bubbles in resin are like mould lines on plastic. It's just part of the nature of the material. Yes we could insist upon GW cleaning every model before selling; however we'd likely see the prices soar up to insane numbers and the fulfilment times lengthen with likely stock problems (at least until the prices rise high enough to greatly expand their working staff).

Everyone agrees that if the bubbles cause loss of detail or are of a significantly large size then yes its a replacement matter, but a few small holes that take a few moments with liquid green-stuff to patch are just part of the hobby. Same way that we oft put a little greenstuff on the joints of models to smooth over any minor gaps.

They really, really aren't...

I have resin models from PP, BF, Spartan, FW and I didn't get any air bubbles in any of those models.

But but they are.
I've models from Spartan too - most have no bubbles at all but a couple do. Head over the Forge World and Privateer Press websites and the guides for working with their models both include mention of fixing minor air bubbles in the resin. Yes you can get resin without any at all; just like you can get metal models with little to no visible mould lines - but that doesn't mean that it doesn't happen nor does it automatically mean that its a defect (for what its worth most of the bubbles I've seen on Spartan models were on the ships on the underside - ergo on the base where it really didn't matter one bit that they were present - I'd argue that their resin setup is likely superior to FW and PP - although I say that with the caution that Spartan is often producing much smaller sculpts in general whilst the others use them for much large chunks of model which might affect how the material settles in the molds).

Then I guess I've been extremely lucky with everything but Failcrap, because I have 3 FoW armies, 1 complete FR fleet for Dystopian Wars, 2 Gargossals, several IG Tank kits from FW and even the very small Thunderhawks for Gothic from FW and I didn't notice any bubbles in any of those models, but the single and only box of DE Wracks that I tried to buy (and immediately returned for a full refund), was riddled with them...