What Is the Reasoning Behind Using Figures Painted By Someone Else?

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**Alfndrate**

kronk wrote:
Alf is ok in my book.

The rest of you, up your game!

Up the cup?

**Kilkrazy**

Platuan4th wrote:
Kilkrazy wrote:
Using a non-painted army affects the opponent's experience.

I can honestly say, I've never thought "This game would be more fun if the other army was painted".

Do two painted armies facing each other look good? Yes, but as long as I have MY army painted(since I'm a "Play it Painted" type these days), I'm happy. I couldn't care less if the opponent has a painted army or not, I'm just happy to be playing.

96% of DakkaDakka users do not agree with you, according to a poll done a couple of years ago. They prefer playing with painted armies.

**Platuan4th**

Kilkrazy wrote:

96% of DakkaDakka users do not agree with you,

Watch me care. It's not like how I personally enjoy things is decided by committee.

**PhantomViper**

carmachu wrote:
PhantomViper wrote:

Miniature wargaming is a social contract, if you don't care enough about that contract to even bother assembling your miniatures then I don't wan't to waste my limited free time playing you.

If that makes me an elitist, then so be it.

And again you demonstrate why I wouldn't play you. In my 24 years of playing wargames(longer if you count battletech and RPGs) I've discovered the simple rule- its about the people, ther person on the other side of the table that make the game great or suck. There are people with beautifully painted armies, maybe even like you, whom I would never play. But there are people that I would parachute into a gaming store to get a game in with who would say "hey I forgot X, can I proxy it" that is quite fine.

Its about people. Not models. I don't know where this social contract thing keeps popping up, but it certainly doesn't take people into account.

Its actually about the game and the gaming experience that you wan't to provide to your opponent.

I don't need a game to interact with people, if I wan't to interact with my friends we can just chat or go have a beer or whatever.

But if we agree to go play a game then I wan't to make sure that I'll provide my opponent with the best gaming experience that I can, and for me that means that I don't use proxies, and lately that the vast majority, if not all of the models that I use are fully painted. Likewise I expect my opponent to at least have his models assembled. I don't care if they are painted, I don't even mind if some are proxies, but I do draw the line at playing against half-assembled stuff!

As for you not wanting to play the likes of me, that's perfectly fine, if you are the kind of person that doesn't even make the bare minimum effort to provide your opponent with a good gaming experience, then like I said before, I'm not going to waste my limited gaming time playing you.

**PredaKhaine**

The first person to play a 40k game, using only money as proxies (that saves you time going to the shop, paying for models, opening boxes, assembling and painting - the whole lot) wins the internet.

In fact - cash is equal to the effort of earning it, so the actual minimum amount of effort you could put in is a series of movements designed to earn you money.

So I'll type pretend to type 50 words and that can be a rhino proxy and then I could pretend to put a box on a shelf (aegis defence line)

What do you mean, you won't play against me and my army made entirely of proxy movements?! (so much so it actually looks like you're playing 40k while I practice interpretive dance at the other end of the table) Thats being elitist!

**Pyriel-**

Time.
Loving to paint minis does not equal to being able to paint full armies of them, at least not if you are a very accurate and slow painter.

Another issue is the so called "fun" of it. True, painting new stuff is fun and all but someone really thinking it is a blast to paint up 180 of the very same looking shoota boys or 200 skeletons does not so to speak, have all the Indians in the canoe.

Again, if you are the spray-brush-done type then it might be bearable but if you want them to look really good then there are more fun things to do such as hitting yourself in the head with a frying pan.
Just the thought of unclipping, cleaning and assembling 180 orks gives me nightmares and I havent even reached the painting stage so if I can find someone willing to do that for pay then so much better.
Afterwards you can always add your own touch to the minis by adding detail work as you see fit.

**OverwatchCNC**

Palindrome wrote:
Everyone has time to paint, and I mean that literally.

When people say they lack the time to paint what they actually mean is that they lack the motivation.

This is incredibly arrogant. Claiming to know what time everyone has or does not have is completely ridiculous. You know nothing about me or my life on a per minute, hour, daily, weekly, monthly, or yearly basis. Please don't pretend to.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Palindrome wrote:
Osbad wrote:
But priorities =/= motivation.

I just don't accept that. Everyone can spare an average of an hour a week to paint man dollies; some weeks less and some weeks more but simply saying that you don't have the time at all is simply not true unless you work at least 80 hours a week. If you are motivated you will find the time, if you aren''t you won't.

Again, everyone can? Who the hell are you to tell people what time they do or do not have? Are you omniscient or omnipresent that you know, for a fact, the time everyone has? No you're not so stop acting as if you are.

**curran12**

Yup. I just lack motivation to paint!

This whole 'nerve damage' thing is just an elaborate mental game in which I deny myself that time.

Please.

**Kilkrazy**

Platuan4th wrote:
Kilkrazy wrote:

96% of DakkaDakka users do not agree with you,

Watch me care. It's not like how I personally enjoy things is decided by committee.

It's not about you.

Maybe the point might help grey army players be more motivated to get their models painted.

**Platuan4th**

Kilkrazy wrote:
Platuan4th wrote:
Kilkrazy wrote:

96% of DakkaDakka users do not agree with you,

Watch me care. It's not like how I personally enjoy things is decided by committee.

It's not about you.

Maybe the point might help grey army players be more motivated to get their models painted.

You missed the entire point, as tongue in cheek as I put it. It's not for others to decide how ANYONE beside themselves enjoys the hobby. Hobbies are about personal enjoyment, that's the entire point of them.

**Kilkrazy**

No, you're missing the point.

If the people against whom one wants to play, prefer to play against painted armies, one is more likely to get a game if one's army is painted.

**Platuan4th**

I got your point.

I'm saying that it's only going to affect those that already care about that, your posts about what Dakka thinks isn't going to sway those who already don't think that way.

**Mr Morden**

Palindrome wrote:
carlos13th wrote:

Other things may take priority

Of course but I stand by my stance that 'lack of time' is little more than an excuse, people obviously find it hard to accept but everything that we do requires motivation so if you don't do it.....

Automatically Appended Next Post:

carmachu wrote:
I would NEVER sit at a table and play an elitist like you or the OP or Palindrome.

This is the first time that I have ever been called an elitist and as such I will treasure this post for all of 5 seconds before discarding it for being utterly inaccurate.

Well you are setting out that there is a correct way to act in a specific hobby situation (ie your way) and there is a wrong way (other people's way) - kind of sounds like the cap fits?

**glidden**

The wargaming hobby is going to be very personal in what an individual enjoys. I've always enjoyed the modeling and painting aspect, and will sometimes play units that aren't as effective because they look cool and are painted. Playing a painted army against a painted army brings a whole new level of enjoyment to the game that I personally enjoy. I have a much deeper connection to my figures and a personal attachment to specific ones.

I also do commission painting for people who are more about playing, or want a model, unit, or army to be a nice table top standard which they either don't have the skill or patience to achieve. Do I think they are missing out? Sure, but that won't stop me from accepting commisions.

Bottom line is don't try and apply what you enjoy about the hobby to other people, you'll just get frustrated.

**Palindrome**

Mr Morden wrote:
[
Well you are setting out that there is a correct way to act in a specific hobby situation (ie your way) and there is a wrong way (other people's way) - kind of sounds like the cap fits?

When did I do that? Every single post I have made in this thread is to point out that having no time to paint actually means having no motivation or interest in painting. It's self evident really, if someone wants to paint then they will find the time (and no one has literally no free time) and if they don't want to paint then they won't, its as simple as that. At no time did I make a judgement on this.

**PredaKhaine**

Kilkrazy wrote:
I've already faced worse than that.

I played against Tau and this is what he put out for his Stealth Suits.

Another time a Space Marine player hadn't built his Rhino. I asked how I was supposed to work out LoS from just a sprue and he showed me this scale drawing.

only just able to see these pics...
rofl!

**carlos13th**

Palindrome wrote:
Mr Morden wrote:
[
Well you are setting out that there is a correct way to act in a specific hobby situation (ie your way) and there is a wrong way (other people's way) - kind of sounds like the cap fits?

When did I do that? Every single post I have made in this thread is to point out that having no time to paint actually means having no motivation or interest in painting. It's self evident really, if someone wants to paint then they will find the time (and no one has literally no free time) and if they don't want to paint then they won't, its as simple as that. At no time did I make a judgement on this.

You are still making assumptions about other peoples time. If you define free time as time not working or fulfilling other obligations then yes most people will have some time. But there are so many other things to do in their free time that may take precedence over painting models. They may even enjoy painting but enjoy spending their spare time skiing or jogging than they do painting. Something being lower on a persons free time priority list does not mean they are not motivated or are some how lazy. What is true for you is not true for everyone.

**Palindrome**

carlos13th wrote:
Palindrome wrote:
But there are so many other things to do in their free time that may take precedence over painting models

Yes there are but allowing other things to take complete preference over painting leads me a the conclusions that I have already stated.

**Alfndrate**

Palindrome wrote:
carlos13th wrote:
But there are so many other things to do in their free time that may take precedence over painting models

Yes there are but allowing other things to take complete preference over painting leads me a the conclusions that I have already stated.

So just because I'm motivated to run in the evenings means I'm not motivated to paint?

**kronk**

I'm too busy fething to paint.

**Flood**

My friend works a lot of long shifts, has dyspraxia and a wad of cash. He wants a nice painted army but it is simply beyond his own time and capabilities, therefore he pays for someone to paint them for him.
Fortunately it is me (someone with little cash and lots of time)

**nkelsch**

Painting is easy. But that doesn't mean it is 'EASY'.

The workshop needed to prep a model, assemble, paint and get it to production is a huge investment, a paint in the ass and takes space in your home. Sure, I can sit anyone down at *MY* workshop and have them paint to a decent level pretty quickly.

To get them to be able to set that up at home is a huge investment.

I play with lots of people who don't paint. I provide the models. For RPGs, at most they may want a single hero and often will ask me to paint it for them.

Wargaming is different, but I totally understand not wanting to have to have the effort for paint and assembly.

**xxvaderxx**

FinnSeer wrote:
I have noticed that there is a trend forming in the community where plenty of people buy their figures pre-painted or commission the painting for someone else.

Personally I don't understand this at all.

I wouldn't have the same connection at all to the miniatures that I have not painted myself. I have never sold any "extra" figures that I have which are painted beyond priming. I also would not buy any miniature that has been already painted and then use it on a game.

Huge part of my hobby consists of building and converting miniatures and then painting them and at the same time I learn and master skills needed to accomplish these tasks. Sometimes I might sat on my work desk for a long time just trying to find out what the next miniature is going to look and what am I trying to tell with that particular miniature. After these are clear the task of actual conversion work will begin and the feeling can't be described with anything else than having a flow moment where everything is perfectly clear and you intuitively know what to do next like as someone would be guiding your hands.

Even at this stage the miniature starts having a personality. His or hers tilt of the head and position of the legs shows confidence or fear, the way of how the gun is kept shows the amount of training and battles fought before.

Painting adds even more life to the miniature. Is he a strict follower of rules and keeps his gear at prime condition or does he let things that do not affect the performance get dirty.

If I let someone do that instead of myself, I would lose a lot of the fun and what the hobby means for me.

I am not saying that my way would be the only way to be able to enjoy the hobby and instead I would like to understand what do you get by commsissioning you army to be painted by someone else?

It is simple time and or skill.

**Palindrome**

Alfndrate wrote:

So just because I'm motivated to run in the evenings means I'm not motivated to paint?

Well I suppose that depends in how obsessive a runner you are.

**OverwatchCNC**

Palindrome wrote:
Alfndrate wrote:

So just because I'm motivated to run in the evenings means I'm not motivated to paint?

Well I suppose that depends in how obsessive a runner you are.

Clearly Alf if painting isn't priority numero uno in your life then you're doing it wrong. Because you know Palindrom knows exactly what our free time consists of to the point that he knows not painting means a lack of motivation not time in every case.

**Saldiven**

Platuan4th wrote:
Kilkrazy wrote:

96% of DakkaDakka users do not agree with you,

Watch me care. It's not like how I personally enjoy things is decided by committee.

Once again, it becomes a case of "How dare you not enjoy the game the way I do!"

**Alfndrate**

Palindrome wrote:
Alfndrate wrote:

So just because I'm motivated to run in the evenings means I'm not motivated to paint?

Well I suppose that depends in how obsessive a runner you are.

So if I'm more obsessed with an outcome of running (because I'd be running to lose weight) than I am when it comes to painting, I have a lack of motivation to paint? What if I want to be a local 5k 'fun run winner' and win local painting competitions? Those can't be more than a few hours of training a week. Why does me wanting to run in the evening mean I have a lack of motivation to paint? Painting isn't a chore to me in this situation, but it is simply another way to spend my time. My few hours in the evening are pulled in different directions, and I'm sure this only gets compounded when you're adding significant other and kids into the mix.

**Palindrome**

OverwatchCNC wrote:

Clearly Alf if painting isn't priority numero uno in your life then you're doing it wrong. Because you know Palindrom knows exactly what our free time consists of to the point that he knows not painting means a lack of motivation not time in every case.

Did you even read my posts? You certainly dont seem to have understood them.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Alfndrate wrote:
Why does me wanting to run in the evening mean I have a lack of motivation to paint?

It doesn't. If you don't paint at all however due to 'lack of time' then you have no motivation to paint, because if you did have motivation you have found the time to paint something to some degree.

**Haight**

The reasoning is typically one of , or a combination of the below:

1) Someone does not like to paint.

2) Someone does not have time to paint.

3) Someone sucks at painting.

4) Someone enjoys well painted minis.

5) Someone has enough disposable income to spend on commissioning a person that is good at painting.

At the end of the day if the minis are painted, who cares ? Is the 'must be painted' mini camp now expanding into 'must be painted (by you!)' territory ?

**Platuan4th**

Saldiven wrote:
Platuan4th wrote:
Kilkrazy wrote:

96% of DakkaDakka users do not agree with you,

Watch me care. It's not like how I personally enjoy things is decided by committee.

Once again, it becomes a case of "How dare you not enjoy the game the way I do!"

Try reading the whole conversation again. My disagreement with KK is with his blanket statement:

Using a non-painted army affects the opponent's experience.

Just because that's how a lot of Dakka feels does NOT mean it's an absolute fact of wargaming. I said as an opponent it doesn't affect me at all, it's a non-issue.