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Stranger83 wrote:

You're argument of "you would make time" makes me believe that you are probably in late teens/early 20's without a family (apologies if not - but that's the kind of attitude I had back then).

I am in my mid 30's with a young family and in full time employment.

As I have said I don't mind people paying others to paint their armies, or even playing against bare metal armies, what I dislike is the 'no time' excuse.

 Palindrome wrote:

Stranger83 wrote:

You're argument of "you would make time" makes me believe that you are probably in late teens/early 20's without a family (apologies if not - but that's the kind of attitude I had back then).

I am in my mid 30's with a young family and in full time employment.

As I have said I don't mind people paying others to paint their armies, or even playing against bare metal armies, what I dislike is the 'no time' excuse.

Then I presume that you have no other hobbies? Or that you at least view gaming as your top hobby? which if fair enough and good for you - it's great that you put this top of the pile and I wish I could (unfortunately as the misses doesn't game I have to put archery at the top of the pile as that is a hobby where I can also hang out with her - maximising the use of my time) but the fact that I put spending time with my misses and another hobby doesn't mean that I have no motivation, and whilst maybe "once I've done everything that I view as a higher priority I have no time" might be a better choice of words than just "I have no time" that still doesn't mean that we have no motivation to paint

We seem to have got rather off the topic here.

Stranger83 wrote:
that still doesn't mean that we have no motivation to paint

But if you never paint then you obviously aren't motivated to field painted armies, you may like to but if you don't put any effort towards it then its obviously not that important to you. That's fine in itself but at least be honest about it if it is true.
Painting is far from my main hobby, in fact it's not something that I particularly enjoy but if I need to get something done I will get it done before it hits the table..

 Palindrome wrote:

 Alfndrate wrote:

I have time, what I dedicate it to is for me to choose

Of course it is, you have also painted more in the last month than I have.

What I am talking about is people who apparently have no time to paint at all which is frankly bollocks and nothing more than an excuse.

I call bs on that. Here's an example of what some people have to do in an average week. I got up at 3AM, got dressed and packed for work. Left the house at 3:30AM, Drove for 3 hours to my jobsite arriving at 6:30AM. Started work at 7AM. Got finished with work at 5:30PM. Drove home for 3 hours getting home at 8:30PM. I got changed out of dirty work clothes and got cleaned up, and start dinner at 9:00PM. Eat dinner and sit down for about 30min so done with that at 9:30. At this point, if I went to bed immediately I would only get 5 and a half hours of sleep. I guess I could've painted instead of slept...

So yeah, some people may legitimately not have any time to paint. Even though that project ended and I don't have to drive 6 hours a day, I still struggle to find time to paint because having your own house is a constant upkeep effort, along with 3 cats, 2 dogs.

 Boblogik wrote:

 Palindrome wrote:

 Alfndrate wrote:

I have time, what I dedicate it to is for me to choose

Of course it is, you have also painted more in the last month than I have.

What I am talking about is people who apparently have no time to paint at all which is frankly bollocks and nothing more than an excuse.

I call bs on that. Here's an example of what some people have to do in an average week. I got up at 3AM, got dressed and packed for work. Left the house at 3:30AM, Drove for 3 hours to my jobsite arriving at 6:30AM. Started work at 7AM. Got finished with work at 5:30PM. Drove home for 3 hours getting home at 8:30PM. I got changed out of dirty work clothes and got cleaned up, and start dinner at 9:00PM. Eat dinner and sit down for about 30min so done with that at 9:30. At this point, if I went to bed immediately I would only get 5 and a half hours of sleep. I guess I could've painted instead of slept...

So yeah, some people may legitimately not have any time to paint. Even though that project ended and I don't have to drive 6 hours a day, I still struggle to find time to paint because having your own house is a constant upkeep effort, along with 3 cats, 2 dogs.

Your an outlier and you really, really need to get yourself a new job.

I get a connection with my commision painted models becasue I ask my commission painter to do stuff that personalises the model to me. Which tends to be sesame street for some reason. Have a deek at the 'cookie cutter'

http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/496077-Vendetta.html

http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/496079-Vendetta.html

 Palindrome wrote:

 Boblogik wrote:

 Palindrome wrote:

 Alfndrate wrote:

I have time, what I dedicate it to is for me to choose

Of course it is, you have also painted more in the last month than I have.

What I am talking about is people who apparently have no time to paint at all which is frankly bollocks and nothing more than an excuse.

I call bs on that. Here's an example of what some people have to do in an average week. I got up at 3AM, got dressed and packed for work. Left the house at 3:30AM, Drove for 3 hours to my jobsite arriving at 6:30AM. Started work at 7AM. Got finished with work at 5:30PM. Drove home for 3 hours getting home at 8:30PM. I got changed out of dirty work clothes and got cleaned up, and start dinner at 9:00PM. Eat dinner and sit down for about 30min so done with that at 9:30. At this point, if I went to bed immediately I would only get 5 and a half hours of sleep. I guess I could've painted instead of slept...

So yeah, some people may legitimately not have any time to paint. Even though that project ended and I don't have to drive 6 hours a day, I still struggle to find time to paint because having your own house is a constant upkeep effort, along with 3 cats, 2 dogs.

Your an outlier and you really, really need to get yourself a new job.

Well I am an Operating Engineer out of Local 18 and I work with a crane rental company. That project lasted one month (thankfully... it was killing me). I get sent all over the state of Ohio. I get paid good wages and I love working with the cranes. Not all the jobsites I get sent to are 3 hours away, most are about an hour each way. I was working on the pipeline running through the state, working with a directional drill, we worked 72 hours a week (12hrs/day 6days/week) and I lived an hour from that job. Now that I made fantastic money. I was bringing home 1700$/wk after taxes. Shame that lasted only 3 weeks.

Eventually I'll get my army painted, but 8000pts of guard is daunting...

 Palindrome wrote:

Stranger83 wrote:
that still doesn't mean that we have no motivation to paint

But if you never paint then you obviously aren't motivated to field painted armies, you may like to but if you don't put any effort towards it then its obviously not that important to you. That's fine in itself but at least be honest about it if it is true.
Painting is far from my main hobby, in fact it's not something that I particularly enjoy but if I need to get something done I will get it done before it hits the table..

Again, not being motivated and having other priorities are not the same thing. For years I have wanted to learn the guitar, but other priorities have meant that I just cannot free up the time. Yes if it really meant a lot to me I COULD give up archery, I COULD spend less time with the family, I COULD give up gaming but all these are a higher priority to me than learning the guitar. This doesn't however mean that I have no motivation to learn to play the guitar, I am very motivated, but freeing up the time is not something I am prepared to do as I don't want to stop doing any of the stuff I am currently doing. Now if my employer told me tomorrow I could have the same wage and only work 20 hours a week instead of 40 I would be all over learning the guitar - but right now my free time is limited enough that I cannot free the time to do that without giving something else up

So again, it's not that I disagree with what I think you are trying to say, which is that people put other things ahead of painting, I just disagree with your use of no motivation, I'm very motivated, it just isn;t a high priority.

 Palindrome wrote:
Your an outlier and you really, really need to get yourself a new job.

That seems to be descending into personal abuse. Can't you just accept that not everyone has a life that reflects yours, and can't find the same spare time to devote to recreational activities as you can?

Because I paint like a drunk man having a seizure.

without a doubt: time, skill, desire, are reasons people dont want to paint their own armies. Most of my painting these days is for other people and I usually paint my own stuff to a lesser level than what I paint my clients stuff. Since I have a family now I find it even more difficult to make time to paint for ME.I paint armies for money though...and its pretty fun.

 TheWildHost wrote:
Because I paint like a drunk man having a seizure.

Not going to lie that made me laugh pretty hard.

Okay... let us see....
Do I prefer playing against a painted army? YES.

Will I play against an unpainted army? YES.

Will I mock the player of an unpainted army, without measure or mercy? YES.

Will I play against an army that has commissioned paint jobs? YES.

Will I mock the player of said commissioned army? DEPENDS - if I was the one to paint it I am likely to make comments like 'That is one damn fine painted army - I couldn't have done better myself!' or the like. Otherwise, NO - odds are excellent that I will neither know nor care. I just prefer facing a painted army.

I am not going to say 'Everyone has time to PAINT!' - folks spend their time as they see fit. I like painting. My girlfriend likes painting. But not everyone does.

And, honestly, if my girlfriend didn't like spending time conversing with me over bottles of paint... it is likely that I would be doing something else instead of painting little toy soldiers. I like painting, but I like spending time with my girlfriend more. That we can spend time, together, is a minor but special miracle that I give thanks for daily.

I wouldn't have time for painting, because I would be singing in a punk band or something. (Don't laugh... I have sung in her punk band.)

The Auld Grump - British Isles punk...not to be confused with British folk music. One is about drinking, fighting, sex, and about how the world is basically unfair. The other.... Okay, there is no real difference.

Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 Palindrome wrote:
Your an outlier and you really, really need to get yourself a new job.

That seems to be descending into personal abuse. Can't you just accept that not everyone has a life that reflects yours, and can't find the same spare time to devote to recreational activities as you can?

Do you mind explaining exactly how I was abusive?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Stranger83 wrote:
I'm very motivated, it just isn;t a high priority.

In other words you are slightly motivated.

I hate to keep repeating myself but seriously, if people want to have painted armies they would have them.

 Palindrome wrote:

Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 Palindrome wrote:
Your an outlier and you really, really need to get yourself a new job.

That seems to be descending into personal abuse. Can't you just accept that not everyone has a life that reflects yours, and can't find the same spare time to devote to recreational activities as you can?

Do you mind explaining exactly how I was abusive?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Stranger83 wrote:
I'm very motivated, it just isn;t a high priority.

In other words you are slightly motivated.

I hate to keep repeating myself but seriously, if people want to have painted armies they would have them.

You keep judging other peoples lives as if they are your own. Please stop that. You told someone else they should get another job. I hope you realise what a ridiculous statement that was. Maybe he loves his job, maybe it earns him lots of money so he can make cash now and retire early, maybe the money he is making is worth the time commitment to him, maybe he can't just "Get another job" as if changing jobs is like changing underwear.

How many people have to disagree with you to get it through your skull that not everyone is you, not everyone has the same amount of time to dedicate to things that you do and other people who do have the same amount of free time will fill it with other activities before painting. Also people who want painted armies and don't have time do get painted armies, buy paying someone else to paint them.

 carlos13th wrote:

You keep judging other peoples lives as if they are your own. Please stop that. You told someone else they should get another job.

Firstly I don't, I am merely stating the obvious and secondly I told the other poster that he needs to get another job as a 6 hour daily commute is madness. If you want to get over excited about my posts how about tethering your own replies to reality?

 Palindrome wrote:

 carlos13th wrote:

You keep judging other peoples lives as if they are your own. Please stop that. You told someone else they should get another job.

Firstly I don't, I am merely stating the obvious and secondly I told the other poster that he needs to get another job as a 6 hour daily commute is madness. If you want to get over excited about my posts how about tethering your own replies to reality?

You should tie yours to reality first. Also who's excited?

Ok...

I have been in the hobby a long time, I have gotten better at painting and I had won some best painted etc. Here in the most recent years the painting ability in most gamers has increased a hundred fold. I wouldn't mind at all, allowing someone to paint an army for me, or perhaps a few squads, or characters.
I used to paint squads, armies, and characters for folk. I enjoyed it yet I had a difficult time parting with the miniatures at the end. I still miss some of them.

Its his children i feel sorry for.
Thirty years old and still acting like a petulant teen, throwing around borderline insults based on nothing but his own crap assumptions.
Proof as if we needed it that adults are not always grown up.
What a pompus idiot.

blingman wrote:
Its his children i feel sorry for.
Thirty years old and still acting like a petulant teen, throwing around borderline insults based on nothing but his own crap assumptions.
Proof as if we needed it that adults are not always grown up.
What a pompus idiot.

I state my case clearly, yet you so obviously fail to grasp it's substance, and you additionally resort to base insults which you only get away with due to the anonymity of the internet. Who exactly is the idiot here?

I myself paint all of my models because I am cheap and disinclined to pay others for things I know how to do and already own the equipment for.

However, as someone who really does not enjoy painting at all, I make no value judgments of people who pay others to do it for them. For me, it's a tedious chore, not fun at all.

"The reasoning", as asked for by the OP, is the same as anyone who brought home takeout one night instead of stopping at the grocery store and picking up things to make a meal from scratch: The money was available and time time\inclination\ability were not.

 curran12 wrote:
And hey, I have nerve damage in my dominant arm that prevents me from holding a brush steady. Guess I don't get to have a painted army anymore, eh?

Ditto.

I'm painting my army, because i like my armies painted, but it takes a fething long time with a gammy arm and a dodgy eye...

My orks will not be painted in full for years. It takes me days to paint each one well enough to not feel bad about fielding them (average-poor tabletop quality).

I have no issue with people having their models painted/buying painted models. I'm just a stubborn old cuss

Each to their own.

 Palindrome wrote:

Do you mind explaining exactly how I was abusive?

Abuse might be the wrong term. My point is that you're getting personal. Telling him he really needs to get a new job, because his current (and apparently well paying) job doesn't leave him as much free time for painting as you have? Who are you to tell others what to do regarding their hobby and employment?

edit: he also said that it was a temporary project, which paid him extremely well, and his typical commute is only an hour or so.

 Palindrome wrote:
Firstly I don't, I am merely stating the obvious and secondly I told the other poster that he needs to get another job as a 6 hour daily commute is madness. If you want to get over excited about my posts how about tethering your own replies to reality?

Thats the problem with people who boldy claim to be stating the obvious. 9/10 its only obvious to themselves, they're clearly right and all the people disagreeing with them, no matter how many, are clearly wrong.

Well this is certainly a contentious issue of the wargaming community.

Personally, I don't care either way, however I would get annoyed if someone tried to pass off a commission painter's work as their own.

I really think it is time to put the time issue to one side.

It may be technically correct that anyone can find an hour a week to do painting, however on that basis it would take months or years to finish an army so realistically people aren't going to do it.

Moving back to the core topic, it seems there are several reasons for buying painted figures. The only reprehensible one in my opinion is if you want to pass them off as your own work. There have been several cases of this happening in Golden Daemon awards.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
The only reprehensible one in my opinion is if you want to pass them off as your own work. There have been several cases of this happening in Golden Daemon awards.

Holy cow! Really? I mean, I'd think someone was a bit of a dick if they claimed their commissioned army was their own work and I found out it wasn't, but putting something in for Golden daemon? That's... I can't really find the words... What would they get out of an award that isn't for their work?

Just wondering out loud really.

My thoughts too, however it has been done. Perhaps there is a prize of monetary value, like a set of paints, as well as the false kudos.

Resale value maybe?

blingman wrote:
Its his children i feel sorry for.
Thirty years old and still acting like a petulant teen, throwing around borderline insults based on nothing but his own crap assumptions.
Proof as if we needed it that adults are not always grown up.
What a pompus idiot.

Thats out of line mate. You are basically calling him a bad father based on a forum post. Thats far more insulting than anything he has said by a country mile.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Velour_Fog wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
The only reprehensible one in my opinion is if you want to pass them off as your own work. There have been several cases of this happening in Golden Daemon awards.

Holy cow! Really? I mean, I'd think someone was a bit of a dick if they claimed their commissioned army was their own work and I found out it wasn't, but putting something in for Golden daemon? That's... I can't really find the words... What would they get out of an award that isn't for their work?

Just wondering out loud really.

Yeah it would be the equivalent of getting someone to play a tournament for you. Except I imagine the painting thing is a little easier to get away with.