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As a side note and a Chaos player: I like challenges. +__+

I'd say "we" like challenges, but I can't speak for my fellow disciples.

I'm sure that's just because we're good in challenges (cause Abby ftw. XD) but I'd like to think I'd be in support otherwise. Something about letting two commanders slug it out, toe to toe screams "Legend" to me. Especially if its' a Sorcerer v. Librarian and they both Insta-gib eachother. lol

 TheRedWingArmada wrote:
I'm sure that's just because we're good in challenges (cause Abby ftw. XD)

Except the time that you charge Abaddon into a squad of Space Marines and the SM sergeant challenges Abaddon and you spend 1 turn having your 200 point character kill a 14 point guy instead of carving through 10 Space Marines.

 Sir Arun wrote:

 TheRedWingArmada wrote:
I'm sure that's just because we're good in challenges (cause Abby ftw. XD)

Except the time that you charge Abaddon into a squad of Space Marines and the SM sergeant challenges Abaddon and you spend 1 turn having your 200 point character kill a 14 point guy instead of carving through 10 Space Marines.

Yeah, that can be a drag, but that only ties up battle for a turn and that Sergeant won't be making that mistake twice. lol. My point is more that it's hard to make a Chaos player refuse a charge and make that IC completely useless. You may stall us for a turn, but in the next round of combat, that difficult decision get's placed on your head instead.

Besides that, you're giving me a free roll on the Chaos Boon Table if you're throwing sergeants in my way, which could help some but could also but your Warlord in a serious bind when Abbadon wraps up his combat and moves on.

Chaos doesn't necessarily "suffer" from challenges. Maybe slowed down, but we're not saying "Nah, I'm gonna sit this one out." Even if we're talking about Chosen and Chaos Lords, we still want that challenge. +__+

We have to accept and issue challenges no matter what, so like I said, not that big of a deal. Especially when we get rewarded for it, unlike that useless Corpse sitting on Terra....drooling on himself like a senile epileptic after having a stroke and a seizure.

XD

Second Edit: There is also one more big strategy for Chaos when we're talking about Challenges that really lets them shine, however in points costed games and FOC based structure, this is a lot harder to pull off. So you wanna throw your Sargeant at Abby? Well I play with multiple IC's (like Chaos Lords and such) so even if you do that and expect Abby to accept, he can instead say "I'm gonna let my Chaos Lord here take this fight, while I drag my Talons down your Mark IV."

THIS is what Challenges were for. So that multiple characters in a squad could decide who was taking what fight, when and where. So you throw a sergeant at me? Abby throws a Champ at you. You throw a Librarian at me? Abby throws a Chaos Lord at you. You actually wanna make this fight real? Abby may step up then. +__+

your last sentence is referring to 400 points worth of characters in one unit. They die just as easily to Centurions nearby only worth half as much.

The point I was making is that when Abaddon kills the sarge, the Space Marine squad has lost the combat by 1, and so has to pass an LD check on a 7 or less, giving them a good chance to break and disengage when in the previous edition Abaddon would have reduced that squad to mince meat the turn he charged them.

i'm always amazed in threads like these how common 6" charges were in peoples' games in fifth. Unless you were only assaulting with a couple of men and/or you got lucky, you'd probably be assaulting through difficult terrain and have to roll up.

Exceot back then if you got a poor roll and only one guy made it b2b, you were screwed. In sixth you get to pile in, meaning more attacks. You also now always get your bonus attacks for charging, not just all who were in range.

I get that people are upset that assaulting got nerfed, but it needed nerfing. There were too many battles that were game, set and match as soon as one unit got within a certain distance.

xruslanx wrote:

I get that people are upset that assaulting got nerfed, but it needed nerfing. There were too many battles that were game, set and match as soon as one unit got within a certain distance.

See my sig.

 Sir Arun wrote:
your last sentence is referring to 400 points worth of characters in one unit. They die just as easily to Centurions nearby only worth half as much.

The point I was making is that when Abaddon kills the sarge, the Space Marine squad has lost the combat by 1, and so has to pass an LD check on a 7 or less, giving them a good chance to break and disengage when in the previous edition Abaddon would have reduced that squad to mince meat the turn he charged them.

There's these cool guys called Aspiring Champions... they even come built-in with every unit bar Spawn/Oblits/Mutilators...
If you can't honestly avoid an unwanted challenge with your 'uber IC, then you're doing it wrong.

As long as your unit chump is alive and kicking, Abby can always just go and happily butcher the Emperor's lapdogs.

Experiment 626 wrote:

 Sir Arun wrote:
your last sentence is referring to 400 points worth of characters in one unit. They die just as easily to Centurions nearby only worth half as much.

The point I was making is that when Abaddon kills the sarge, the Space Marine squad has lost the combat by 1, and so has to pass an LD check on a 7 or less, giving them a good chance to break and disengage when in the previous edition Abaddon would have reduced that squad to mince meat the turn he charged them.

There's these cool guys called Aspiring Champions... they even come built-in with every unit bar Spawn/Oblits/Mutilators...
If you can't honestly avoid an unwanted challenge with your 'uber IC, then you're doing it wrong.

As long as your unit chump is alive and kicking, Abby can always just go and happily butcher the Emperor's lapdogs.

My last sentence also illustrated how I don't adhere to points as much as most everyone else does, so I can play games with 5 IC choices instead of just 2.

That aside though, what Experiment just said: We get sergeants too. lol

Edit: Currently I have two squads of Chosen with Chaos Lords in them as well (per Dark Vengeance kits), a cultist blob with a Dark Apostle in it and my Warlord Sorcerer is relatively alone. Now, I've got another Sorcerer that I throw in from time to time, but that's the gist of what I mean by getting to pick through who takes a Challenge.

I'm gonna go out and be controversial here and say it, don't like it play another game. It's as simple as that, play another game that is more tailored to what you want, or just play 5th edition, or make house rules, because we all know GW lives in a fairytale land where they chuck rules at us every month before we have time to catch up, but it's fun and it changes.

 BrotherOfBone wrote:
I'm gonna go out and be controversial here and say it, don't like it play another game. It's as simple as that, play another game that is more tailored to what you want, or just play 5th edition, or make house rules, because we all know GW lives in a fairytale land where they chuck rules at us every month before we have time to catch up, but it's fun and it changes.

Pretty much. And as long as you're not making money off of their product, wtf does GW have to say about "unofficial tournaments" and such? Not jack if their models are still being sold. Of course, this is also a fantasy world where people don't try to squeeze blood of rocks either. :\

xruslanx wrote:i'm [sic] always amazed in threads like these how common 6" charges were in peoples' games in fifth. Unless you were only assaulting with a couple of men and/or you got lucky, you'd probably be assaulting through difficult terrain and have to roll up.

Well, see, in 5th ed. move through cover actually affected the assault phase. meaning that a 5 or 6 inch charge was in fact quite feasible for my 'Nids.

xruslanx wrote:
Exceot [sic] back then if you got a poor roll and only one guy made it b2b, you were screwed. In sixth you get to pile in, meaning more attacks. You also now always get your bonus attacks for charging, not just all who were in range.

There was a pile-in thing in 5th as well- except the defender had to pile in a full 6" at the beginning of combat. Also, I do not get bonus attacks when I multi-assault. Because Tyranids overrunning masses of defenders wouldn't be cinematic.

xruslanx wrote:
I get that people are upset that assaulting got nerfed, but it needed nerfing. There were too many battles that were game, set and match as soon as one unit got within a certain distance.

I'm guessing you are one of the guard players I mentioned earlier.

I love me some house rules.

 Crazy_Carnifex wrote:

Zewrath wrote:
All DE transports are open-topped. Open-topped are assault vehicles. Move 6", disembark 6" and assault 2d6 and DE transport are now faster than ever.

5th ed-

Move 12"

Disembark 2"

Run d6"

Assualt 6"

Threat Range of 20+d6'

As opposed to 6th ed's 12+2d6 with a re-roll.

Not talking about charge range. Your movement + flat out is faster than ever before so even with the nerfed range you shouldn't have any problem reaching your opponent what so ever, the only real problem DE has is overwatch.