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Hey dakkas,

I am starting my second army and I have kind of a noob question that I need a quick clarification on.


So if I make my own SM chapter with its own color scheme etc. I can use any chapter tactics I want unless I use a special character then I have to use that chapters CT?

Also lets say I make my own chapter and paint it say..black and gold am I allowed to use a special character say..Tigurius and paint him in my scheme instead of UM and use his rules as if I was running an UM army?


Thanks guys

That's right - if you take a character like Tigurius, you'll have to field UM.

Just as if you take Lysander, you'd have to use imperial fists chapter tactics

Thanks! Okay thats what I thought

but I am allowed to paint that special character in my own color scheme and still use his rules right? just have to use his chapters tactics

Paint the model however you like, as long as you're using the right Chapter Tactics.

You could stick with the original scheme (Tiggy having a holiday) or use your own scheme (your chapter's chief librarian, who just happens to use Tiggy's rules).

One of my friends is making his own "chapter" based on the Ultramarine codex. Idea is they are experts in siege warfare. This I have no problem with. He wants to give some squads ability to take a few meltaguns. Ok, I still have no problem. But then he wants to pick and choose named characters from different chapters as part of his chapter, that I have a problem with. Just feels cheesy.

I said this in another thread recently, and I'll say it here. The Codex states "If a detachment is from a successor Chapter, you must adopt the Chapter Tactics of the First Founding Chapter from which that successor Chapter descends".

However, this is something that I personally would not enforce, and wouldn't expect many players to either. If you decide, for example, that your Chapter is descended from the Ultramarines, and yet they deviate from their ancestor Chapter for <insert plot reason>. This has potential for some really cool stories for their background, because it asks a powerful question: Why are they different?

Of course, if your Ultramarines-descended Chapter was using the Iron Hands Chapter Tactics, for example, they would not be able to take any of the special characters. If they instead used the Imperial Fists Chapter Tactics, they would be able to take Lysander - although of course, it would simply be a member of your Chapter who is similar enough to Lysander, maybe called "Captain Antonius of the Golden Olives 1st Company".

A suitably well-painted/converted model (using you as an example; Tigurius) would be advisable to convince your opponent that you didn't just leave it vague so you could change your Chapter Tactics whenever you wanted.

EDIT:

Rumbleguts wrote:
One of my friends is making his own "chapter" based on the Ultramarine codex. Idea is they are experts in siege warfare. This I have no problem with. He wants to give some squads ability to take a few meltaguns. Ok, I still have no problem. But then he wants to pick and choose named characters from different chapters as part of his chapter, that I have a problem with. Just feels cheesy.

That is not allowed by any definition of the rules. However, he could take characters from two separate Chapters if he used an allied detachment. It sounds like you're being had. "Sorry, I forgot, half of my guys are World Eaters so they all get power axes, Furious Charge, and +2 Attacks". Unless he is legally giving his squads meltaguns? Unless you're getting something from this (like your squads can take extra special weapons, too), it's just cheating. If he wanted to make them feel like masters of siege warfare, tell him to use the Imperial Fists Chapter Tactics. That's what it's for.

 Frozen Ocean wrote:
I said this in another thread recently, and I'll say it here. The Codex states "If a detachment is from a successor Chapter, you must adopt the Chapter Tactics of the First Founding Chapter from which that successor Chapter descends".

However, this is something that I personally would not enforce, and wouldn't expect many players to either. If you decide, for example, that your Chapter is descended from the Ultramarines, and yet they deviate from their ancestor Chapter for <insert plot reason>. This has potential for some really cool stories for their background, because it asks a powerful question: Why are they different?

Of course, if your Ultramarines-descended Chapter was using the Iron Hands Chapter Tactics, for example, they would not be able to take any of the special characters. If they instead used the Imperial Fists Chapter Tactics, they would be able to take Lysander - although of course, it would simply be a member of your Chapter who is similar enough to Lysander, maybe called "Captain Antonius of the Golden Olives 1st Company".

A suitably well-painted/converted model (using you as an example; Tigurius) would be advisable to convince your opponent that you didn't just leave it vague so you could change your Chapter Tactics whenever you wanted.

EDIT:

Rumbleguts wrote:
One of my friends is making his own "chapter" based on the Ultramarine codex. Idea is they are experts in siege warfare. This I have no problem with. He wants to give some squads ability to take a few meltaguns. Ok, I still have no problem. But then he wants to pick and choose named characters from different chapters as part of his chapter, that I have a problem with. Just feels cheesy.

That is not allowed by any definition of the rules. However, he could take characters from two separate Chapters if he used an allied detachment. It sounds like you're being had. "Sorry, I forgot, half of my guys are World Eaters so they all get power axes, Furious Charge, and +2 Attacks". Unless he is legally giving his squads meltaguns? Unless you're getting something from this (like your squads can take extra special weapons, too), it's just cheating. If he wanted to make them feel like masters of siege warfare, tell him to use the Imperial Fists Chapter Tactics. That's what it's for.

That said, you can ally with yourself to get different chapter tactics. So you could have your main detachment as Ultras, lead by Tigirius, with an allied contingent of Imp Fists, lead by Lysander, and using the IF CTs. Just be sure you differentiate the models as to which is which, to avoid confusion.

Oh, of course. Differentiation is always important!

My friend spoke that in CSM codex (not sure if it's the new one or not) there was actually a line that encouraged you to "make your own characters". I mean, if you think that Abaddon is cheese but you don't like his fluff or hate the colours, you can make your own model, give it a name like Acaddon and wield it as a part of your force with same rules and pricing as Abaddon.

This is of course different in C:SM where there's a difference between Chapters so I'm not sure if it's cool... Propably not now that I think of it.

However, you could make UM successor which uses UM chapter tactics, have Tigurius, name and paint him as you like and wield it. I think no-one would have problems with that.

I know in the last C:SM codex, there was a sidebar giving permission to file the name off the special characters, and give the mechanics behind them your own twist. Not sure if that made it into the current book. Now that the paint job HAS rules attached (chapter tactics) you need to be a little more careful. But I suspect that most people won't care about the color, as long as the rules are all in order.

I see no reason you cant play the army as counts as such and such chapter. If you paint your marines black and say they use Ultra CTs then there is no reason Calgar cant be used. There is also no reason you cant paint him however you like.

I would just be clear to your opponent what army you are playing.

I need to borrow my friend's codex again but I am very sure it says you can in the latest C:SM you can use Named characters painted differently as long as they retain their Chapter Tactics
ie Ultramarine coloured Shrike with Raven Guard tactics leading Blue Raven Guards

Someone help me out here, why is there such a big deal with what colour your marines are?

As long as your army list follows rules of the chosen codex you can have pink and purple polka dot marines if you really want.

Marine players have so much more freedom than any other army out there having a choice between 5 codices! Sure Grey knights are a bit iffy with their wierd wargear but every other chapter it should not matter.

I agree with madcat on this. It's ridiculous that people who play with toy soldiers lack the imagination to allow differently colored marines. Seriously. As long as the rules are intact and your opponent is informed, go for it. No-ones telling me how to hobby.

 Madcat87 wrote:
Someone help me out here, why is there such a big deal with what colour your marines are?

As long as your army list follows rules of the chosen codex you can have pink and purple polka dot marines if you really want.

Marine players have so much more freedom than any other army out there having a choice between 5 codices! Sure Grey knights are a bit iffy with their wierd wargear but every other chapter it should not matter.

To play devil's advocate here:

It's an extreme case of WYSWYG. If I see blue marines with at little "U" on their shoulder, I expect them to be using the UM chapter tactics. What I See, after all, is Ultramarines. If What I Get is bolter-drilling Imp. Fists. lead by Lysander, there is a disconnect. It doesn't matter that you're calling him Cpt. Agemman leading a group of tyrannic war vets, who learned the value of a crisp bolter drill the hard way. Or "Khan" leading a detachment of "I-Can't-belive-they're-not-White-Scars" as the captain of the 8th leading some blue bikers to the field.

There might also be a very strict RAW reason as well. I'd have to sift through the verbiage of the codex though to find out, and I'm a little under-caffinated to do that at the moment. I do vaguely recall the "make them your own" sidebar being removed though, so the RAW crowd does have a case.

At the end of the day, I suspect that 99% of player won't have a problem with a purple painted Tigirius, chief librarian of <your chapter here> as long as he (and his detachment) are using the UM CTs. There is going to be that one guy who's going to have issues, as we're a pretty diverse crowd who likes to argue. But as long as all the mechanics line up, the paint is secondary.

 soomemafia wrote:
My friend spoke that in CSM codex (not sure if it's the new one or not) there was actually a line that encouraged you to "make your own characters". I mean, if you think that Abaddon is cheese but you don't like his fluff or hate the colours, you can make your own model, give it a name like Acaddon and wield it as a part of your force with same rules and pricing as Abaddon.

This is of course different in C:SM where there's a difference between Chapters so I'm not sure if it's cool... Propably not now that I think of it.

However, you could make UM successor which uses UM chapter tactics, have Tigurius, name and paint him as you like and wield it. I think no-one would have problems with that.

You can certainly still change the special characters in the codex to be named and modeled however you want, but with Chapter Tactics there are actual rules restrictions as to what kind of force you can include the special characters in, specifically a force using the same chapter tactics as the character is listed as having.