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I play with Eldar allies and I'm in the process of coming up with a fluff for my army. Now I could justify it by calling them all corsair. I often do use Duke Sliscus so I might as well just call them Sky Serpents. But I always liked the idea of a Kabal.

My question is this: would some Craftworld Eldar actually ALLY with some Dark Eldar scum? Especially if they are not in a dire situation?

I do have couple of scenarios in my mind that I might use, but I just want to see what people think and see if I can come up with something better with help from you guys.

Yes. Eldar and Dark Eldar are far closer and more likely to ally with each other over any other race.

Despite the names, Dark Eldar and Eldar are not mortal enemies, they are much more like cousins who have diverted. They may be very different from one another, but family comes first.

In my opinion they dont hate each other at all, just disagree on how to live their lives. I think they still see each other as fellow eldar and will always be ready to help each other. Even if its for an odd reason like "we found your necromancy ammusing".

My eldar for example are sick of the attitudes of the eldar and are geared for conquest not preservation, so they try and gather all the eldar they can together (except the hippie exodites, we dont want that stuff around ) go around trying to claim whats theirs. As a result they only use proffesional soldiers (aspect warriors and wraith guard) and the dark eldar are there to aid in the cause.

Not sure about actual fluff but thats how my eldar work. United to claiming the galaxy as their once again, seeing the benifit of both ways of life.

Considering the Eldar actually respect life (despite their willingness to exterminate anything they consider a threat), I imagine that they are entirely disgusted by the Dark Eldar and consider them a testament to why the Fall happened in the first place. They are, literally, the very worst aspects of the Eldar made manifest.

So it's likely that Dark Eldar are scum in Eldar eyes. Dark Eldar aren't just cousins to the Eldar. They're the equivalent of that cousin who gets addicted to heroine, becomes a homeless bum and steals things from you and your family members everytime you show some pity and let him stay with you for awhile.

Well, I realised I came off like saying they should hate each other. I do understand they are kin, even if they don't like each other. But somehow I feel like fighting side by side wouldn't be their thing.

I do like your fluff Swas. Perhaps my Kabal can be kind of a "reach out committee" working for Vect. They would want to see if any Eldar still has the spirit. Perhaps a group of Biel-tan would take up the call and fight among their kin. What do you guys think?

We played a game last night - my Dark Eldar watched their weak and dying cousins fighting the filfthy Monkeys and on a whim granted them aid.

If however they grow tiresome they will be slain like any other inferior............

The take-away I always got was that they did hate one another, but at the end of the day they'd work together without question or reservation against any filthy non-eldar. They're space elves, which means that if they're anything above all else, it's racist.

Are there any fluff examples of Eldar and DE working together in a way that resembles the battlebrothers rule?

 Gitsmasher wrote:
Are there any fluff examples of Eldar and DE working together in a way that resembles the battlebrothers rule?

The fight against nids on the craft world is a famous one, cant remember the craftworld though. The one where the space pirates came as well. Like a giant united eldar defence against a hive fleet.

Dark Eldar Codex p23

They help save Iyanden from Waaagh Rekkfist

"Fighting alongside Iyandens Aspect Warriors and their Ghost Warriors allies, the Dark Eldar drive off the Orks."

When aked why the come up with a great line:

They find Iyandens angst-ridden forays into necromancy extermely entertaining

This is repeated (without the fun quote) in Iynanden Codex p35

 Swastakowey wrote:

 Gitsmasher wrote:
Are there any fluff examples of Eldar and DE working together in a way that resembles the battlebrothers rule?

The fight against nids on the craft world is a famous one, cant remember the craftworld though. The one where the space pirates came as well. Like a giant united eldar defence against a hive fleet.

I believe it's Iyanden. There was also a Waaaagh! right after the Hive invasion.

I think there are couple of more occurrences where Dark Eldar appeared out of nowhere to save the day. So in a way, your addicted crazy cousin can bring in some crazy friends to deal with the folk that might cause real trouble.

The Eldar and Dark Eldar relationship is fairly complex.

The reasoning behind them allying was to make it legal to build Eldar pirate (corsair) armies legally. Eldar pirates have been a thing since Rogue Trader, so it isn't like it's some shocking development.

It was just decided to include Dark Eldar into that equation when the Dark Eldar magically appeared in the 40K universe in 1999.

Would they ally?

Yes. It's a situation not unlike "Me against my brother, my brother and I against everyone else".

There is a fairly common opinion that the DE and CWE are the racial enemies of each other (probably from fantasy). This is totally wrong in 40K. The racial enemy of both are Chaos and C'Tan.

The world for an eldar is pretty clearly divided into three parts; people (eldar and old ones), animals (humans, orks, etc.), and enemies (Chaos and C'Tan). If you and your least favorite human were on an island and a tiger is in the area you are going to ally with the human because you don't consider the tiger to be even capable of being an ally. Throw in a volcano (chaos) and you and the other person will sleep cheek to cheek just to survive. This is the eldar factions for you.

Plus there is some population mobility between the groups. They literally are cousins.

Funny enough it is not respect for life that separates DE and CWE. CWE consider a million human lives to be worth less than even a single eldar life. It is indulgence that separates them. The CWE are constantly holding their emotions and impulses back. When you have a recovering drug addict you have them stay away from drug users. The CWE stay away from the DE because to live beside them would destroy the CWE's discipline. Notice that all non CWE are not allowed to live in a CW. Even eldar that just want to not follow a strict path are forced out.

These dynamics are what make eldar an interesting faction. There are no "good" elves and the "evil" elves actually cause less damage and destruction to the humans than the CWE. Not to mention the entire necromancy thing.

If you are interested IA11 has some pretty cool information on corsairs. The pathway books are also good info on CWE and Iyanden supplement gives you an interesting look at a CW society. I am really not so sure that there is that much difference between CWE and DE anymore. Just whether to indulge in impulses.

These dynamics are what make eldar an interesting faction. There are no "good" elves and the "evil" elves actually cause less damage and destruction to the humans than the CWE. Not to mention the entire necromancy thing.

Also the fact that the Harlequins, who are really really scary when pissed off, trying to force them back together whether either's attitude improves or whether they even want to.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
Considering the Eldar actually respect life (despite their willingness to exterminate anything they consider a threat), I imagine that they are entirely disgusted by the Dark Eldar and consider them a testament to why the Fall happened in the first place. They are, literally, the very worst aspects of the Eldar made manifest.

So it's likely that Dark Eldar are scum in Eldar eyes. Dark Eldar aren't just cousins to the Eldar. They're the equivalent of that cousin who gets addicted to heroine, becomes a homeless bum and steals things from you and your family members everytime you show some pity and let him stay with you for awhile.

It doesn't help either that the Dark Eldar would be a sore in their eyes of what they once were as well. Craftworld Eldar are effectively an uber-conservative cult that split from their civilization to flee what they foresaw a coming apocalypse. The Dark Eldar are the remnants of the people that caused the fall in the first place.

They however would probably set aside their differences to beat up some Necrons- probably the only thing capable of unifying them.

 Wyzilla wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:
Considering the Eldar actually respect life (despite their willingness to exterminate anything they consider a threat), I imagine that they are entirely disgusted by the Dark Eldar and consider them a testament to why the Fall happened in the first place. They are, literally, the very worst aspects of the Eldar made manifest.

So it's likely that Dark Eldar are scum in Eldar eyes. Dark Eldar aren't just cousins to the Eldar. They're the equivalent of that cousin who gets addicted to heroine, becomes a homeless bum and steals things from you and your family members everytime you show some pity and let him stay with you for awhile.

It doesn't help either that the Dark Eldar would be a sore in their eyes of what they once were as well. Craftworld Eldar are effectively an uber-conservative cult that split from their civilization to flee what they foresaw a coming apocalypse. The Dark Eldar are the remnants of the people that caused the fall in the first place.

They however would probably set aside their differences to beat up some Necrons- probably the only thing capable of unifying them.

Or Chaos.

Or anything aggressive and not eldar. Seeing as the options are death, ally with beasts, or ally with people.

My Eldar knowledge is mostly Craftworld related, but... purely fluff-wise... wouldn't CWE want to win the Dark Eldar to their side? I mean, DE tend to be sadists, but the fluff gives them the reason that it protects them from Slaanesh. CE have Spirit Stones, so they don't have to worry about Slaanesh to the same degree... A DE who didn't genuinely want to hurt everything and everyone around them would theoretically be able to join a Craftworld, while the Craftworlds could certainly use more people to restore (and stabilize?) their numbers. Vice versa, you could have Eldar who didn't want to worry about using and caring for Spirit Stones and think, "Hey, all I gotta do is hurt some Monkeighs, and I'm safe from She Who Thirsts? Win-win!" An allied force could pretty easily be justified in the fluff by the smaller group thinking about joining the larger force... unless I totally missed something.

 BrotherHaraldus wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:
Considering the Eldar actually respect life (despite their willingness to exterminate anything they consider a threat), I imagine that they are entirely disgusted by the Dark Eldar and consider them a testament to why the Fall happened in the first place. They are, literally, the very worst aspects of the Eldar made manifest.

So it's likely that Dark Eldar are scum in Eldar eyes. Dark Eldar aren't just cousins to the Eldar. They're the equivalent of that cousin who gets addicted to heroine, becomes a homeless bum and steals things from you and your family members everytime you show some pity and let him stay with you for awhile.

It doesn't help either that the Dark Eldar would be a sore in their eyes of what they once were as well. Craftworld Eldar are effectively an uber-conservative cult that split from their civilization to flee what they foresaw a coming apocalypse. The Dark Eldar are the remnants of the people that caused the fall in the first place.

They however would probably set aside their differences to beat up some Necrons- probably the only thing capable of unifying them.

Or Chaos.

Unlikely. IIRC, a fair chunk of Dark Eldar like Chaos despite Slaanesh trying to nom on their souls.

 Wyzilla wrote:

 BrotherHaraldus wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:
Considering the Eldar actually respect life (despite their willingness to exterminate anything they consider a threat), I imagine that they are entirely disgusted by the Dark Eldar and consider them a testament to why the Fall happened in the first place. They are, literally, the very worst aspects of the Eldar made manifest.

So it's likely that Dark Eldar are scum in Eldar eyes. Dark Eldar aren't just cousins to the Eldar. They're the equivalent of that cousin who gets addicted to heroine, becomes a homeless bum and steals things from you and your family members everytime you show some pity and let him stay with you for awhile.

It doesn't help either that the Dark Eldar would be a sore in their eyes of what they once were as well. Craftworld Eldar are effectively an uber-conservative cult that split from their civilization to flee what they foresaw a coming apocalypse. The Dark Eldar are the remnants of the people that caused the fall in the first place.

They however would probably set aside their differences to beat up some Necrons- probably the only thing capable of unifying them.

Or Chaos.

Unlikely. IIRC, a fair chunk of Dark Eldar like Chaos despite Slaanesh trying to nom on their souls.

Where do you get this? DE are so anti chaos they will kill any and all psykers in Commorragh just so chaos has less chance to find them. Heck chaos eldar have been all but retconned out of the setting. Even the allies matrix gets this right with Chaos and Necrons being absolute enemies.

 ansacs wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 BrotherHaraldus wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:
Considering the Eldar actually respect life (despite their willingness to exterminate anything they consider a threat), I imagine that they are entirely disgusted by the Dark Eldar and consider them a testament to why the Fall happened in the first place. They are, literally, the very worst aspects of the Eldar made manifest.

So it's likely that Dark Eldar are scum in Eldar eyes. Dark Eldar aren't just cousins to the Eldar. They're the equivalent of that cousin who gets addicted to heroine, becomes a homeless bum and steals things from you and your family members everytime you show some pity and let him stay with you for awhile.

It doesn't help either that the Dark Eldar would be a sore in their eyes of what they once were as well. Craftworld Eldar are effectively an uber-conservative cult that split from their civilization to flee what they foresaw a coming apocalypse. The Dark Eldar are the remnants of the people that caused the fall in the first place.

They however would probably set aside their differences to beat up some Necrons- probably the only thing capable of unifying them.

Or Chaos.

Unlikely. IIRC, a fair chunk of Dark Eldar like Chaos despite Slaanesh trying to nom on their souls.

Considering that Wych cults are night indistinguishable from Slaanesh cultists?

Where do you get this? DE are so anti chaos they will kill any and all psykers in Commorragh just so chaos has less chance to find them. Heck chaos eldar have been all but retconned out of the setting. Even the allies matrix gets this right with Chaos and Necrons being absolute enemies.

And the IoM cult of emperor worship is very similar to the chaos cults. All cults are somewhat similar.

Not to mention that slaanesh was birthed/awakened from the activities of these cults. The cult's activities schedule came first, slaanesh just copied it.

zbg97 wrote:
My Eldar knowledge is mostly Craftworld related, but... purely fluff-wise... wouldn't CWE want to win the Dark Eldar to their side? I mean, DE tend to be sadists, but the fluff gives them the reason that it protects them from Slaanesh. CE have Spirit Stones, so they don't have to worry about Slaanesh to the same degree... A DE who didn't genuinely want to hurt everything and everyone around them would theoretically be able to join a Craftworld, while the Craftworlds could certainly use more people to restore (and stabilize?) their numbers. Vice versa, you could have Eldar who didn't want to worry about using and caring for Spirit Stones and think, "Hey, all I gotta do is hurt some Monkeighs, and I'm safe from She Who Thirsts? Win-win!" An allied force could pretty easily be justified in the fluff by the smaller group thinking about joining the larger force... unless I totally missed something.

They are all choices to the Eldar. Craft world and dark eldar are the extremes, whilst outcasts are nuetral. Outcasts have not yet decided on being craft world or dark eldar but are more subject to leaving their souls with slaneesh. Not sure what it takes to be part of the Dark eldar but to be apart of a craft world an eldar/human MUST take upon themselves a path which they dedicate their lives to completing, then move on to another path. Not all eldar can handle this so thats why they end up forever outcats risking their sould or going to the dark eldar.

So its all about choices and sticking to them and thats pretty much what all eldar life is based on. An eldar may go on all paths before he does or just stick to one his whole life. (paths being dark/craft and outcast).

Thats what i get from it though and im not sure where exodites sit. But my knowledge is limited as i dont like much of the fluff

The idea that there battle brothers is nuts. Its like puritanical vulcans staying in touch with their catholic aristo romulan 2nd cousins. Makes no sense. They should be Desperate allies. Convenient allies at most.

 Red Marine wrote:
The idea that there battle brothers is nuts. Its like puritanical vulcans staying in touch with their catholic aristo romulan 2nd cousins. Makes no sense. They should be Desperate allies. Convenient allies at most.

Statement with no support from any source whatsoever. Those two groups sure would be best of friends if the universe was filled with borg and animals.

if anything the DE are examples of what happens when a CWE gets stuck on a path and becomes an exarch. They have chosen to save themselves through pain etc and are taking it way beyond the casual.

CWE have worked with DE several times. In the Eldar codex DE came to save Iyanden from Tyranids just because they thought Iyanden's use of wraith constructs entertaining. Saim-Hann found imperials on a Maiden world and gave them an ultimatum to leave. The Imperials declined so the Saim-Hann force attacked crippling their defenses. They then left the defenseless imperials to their DE allies.

In the Iyanden supplement there are more examples besides helping them against the Tyranids. Iyanden was attacked by Orks and was again almost destroyed, but DE came to help fight them off. After the craftworld was safe the DE joined forces with Iyanden to attack the Ork world near by in retaliation. After defeating the Orks Iyanden left the ork survivors to be taken back to Commorragh as punishment for attacking Eldar. Later the Tyranid attacked an Exodite world that Iyanden and Biel-tan allied to protect with Dark Eldar again providing assistance. They were unable to stop the tyranids and the planet was destroyed using a device provided by the DE.

While I'm sure they have fought on many occasion I can only think of one mentioned in the fluff. Ulthwe and a DE Kabal fought in the webway, but eventually agreed to a truce because the fight wasn't worth the costs of Eldar lives.

When CWE help another race it isn't to protect them its to protect Eldar, or to defeat a greater enemy. They don't do it because its a noble cause, they are not good guys.

Complex question :( but it really depends. Craftworld and Exodite Eldar are the most valuable slaves in commoraugh and the CWE will likely step in to fight the DE should they feel threatened. Lets not forget the Dark Eldar love starting pointless wars between craftworlds and other races just to watch them suffer. The Imperial attack on Alaitoc or the Eldar conflict with the tau empire are good examples of this. So you can say the Craftworlders rightly hate their Dark Kin and vice versa as DE see weak cowards and self repressing eldar that refuse to indulge themselves in excess. That being said, alliances aren't horribly rare. As long as both sides benefit. For example during Waagh Rekkfists assault on Iyanden it was a Kabal that turned the tide of the battle. When asked why they intervened the dark eldar simply replied they enjoy watching their kins torment and disdain for having to dip into Necromancy for survival. And they offered to help in a further planetside struggle against the Orks on the condition they get to take all ork prisoners back to their city. Disgusted, Yriel saw little choice and accepted the de terms and so the Orks were wiped out... At least the lucky ones died.
Another example is saimm Han warned a human settlement on a maiden world to leave, and the humans refused. Saimm Han defeated a large portion of the imperial garrison and then left the humans to the predations of their dark eldar allies.
Overall I think the CWE&DE do hate each other but in the end they're both still eldar and as long as there is a benefit to working together they will, otherwise they're going to be extremely hostile towards each other. I too take DE as allies cause I love the look of Kabalites and Incubi(can only become an Incubus after killing an aspect warrior!) but when they do ally making fluffy reasons isn't terribly hard. Mine are crusading against chaos since I fight them the most. Just give them a goal they're both working towards and they'll fight together. Maybe the craft world agreed to hand over all prisoners of war to the dark eldar so they could bolster their ranks? That could be a fluffy reason.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
When CWE help another race it isn't to protect them its to protect Eldar, or to defeat a greater enemy. They don't do it because its a noble cause, they are not good guys.

I don't think the Craftworld Eldar like anyone except themselves, and that they consider the Dark Eldar as scum, and as a warning remnant of the Fall, but I also think they easily prefer their dark kin over any other race in the galaxy.
After all, any Eldar, no matter how vile, is a 100 times better than those disgusting hairless apes...

I can imagine that they frequently work together. Seeing as that the Craftworld Eldar are so few in number, they are probably not beyond hiring Dark Eldar mercenaries for example.