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 djones520 wrote:
Janeway... WORST CHARACTER EVER! Micromanaging bitch from hell.

If the show had really wanted to capture me, they would have mutinied halfway through the show, dumped her on some Kazon world, and taken back one of the 246 ways they could have gotten home without her stonewalling them.

Janeway then was Voyager's version of Gilligan, always messing up chances of getting home?

Relapse wrote:

 djones520 wrote:
Janeway... WORST CHARACTER EVER! Micromanaging bitch from hell.

If the show had really wanted to capture me, they would have mutinied halfway through the show, dumped her on some Kazon world, and taken back one of the 246 ways they could have gotten home without her stonewalling them.

Janeway then was Voyager's version of Gilligan, always messing up chances of getting home?

Had Chakotay phasered her and dumped her out of the airlock right off the bat, they'd have been home in 2 seasons tops.

Who's Tuvok?

 Howard A Treesong wrote:
Voyager should have been more like the new Battlestar Galactica. A dirty struggle to get home. The episodes 'Year of Hell' was what the series should have been like generally, instead it was all the usual nice cheerful stuff like Next Gen, and the consequences of them being that far from home played little role in the series beyond the occasional mention of them having replicator rations. Had they been brave to do something different then the TV series probably wouldn't have ended on a whimper with Enterprise.

TNG was voyagers downfall, people wanted more like it, so voyager came. Year of hell was supposed to be an entire season. And the crew where some of terrorists is rarely brough up. I love it because it was the first I saw, but It is bad.

I can't watch TNG repeats because they're soooooooo boring. And the Enterprise D was just a dumb looking ship. But generally the writing wasn't as stupid as what Voyager got stuck with. I mean, "Blue" Alert? WTF?

I also like Enterprise, because I think archer is the best captain. I mean he got his hands dirty.

 Jehan-reznor wrote:
Who's Tuvok?

The Vulcan guy who didn't have to sleep with Braga to get his part.

Currently going through DS9 atm and I must agree on it being the best of the much. I started watching star trek through Voyager, after getting to season 5 I simply lost the will to live and stopped. Hell the only reason I got that far was Picardo and Ryan. The only good thing I can say about Voyager was that it did get me into star trek, didn't help myself by watching Enterprise next though.

The only redeeming feature of Enterprise is the two-parter, "In a Mirror, Darkly" which linked two episodes of ToS.

Voyager was my favorite Trek, and in my opinion the best/most interesting series out to date. Granted, The Original Series and The Next Generation were great, and had some great moments ("The Measure of a Man" from TNG remains one of my favorite episodes, period.), Enterprise was utter garbage, and DS9 wasn't much better, it was an obvious (and in my opinion vastly inferior) derivative of Babylon 5.

Archer actually had the guts to kill a man himself, not ordering it.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Archer actually had the guts to kill a man himself, not ordering it.

So did Kirk.

Much like Digimon and Pokemon, Deep Space 9 and Babylon 5 were two shows that developed independently of one another and turned out eerily similar. Besides, DS9 began airing in 1993, and Babylon Five started a year later. Its hard to rip off a show that hasn't hasn't even started filming when you've already aired your first episode..

 Breotan wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Archer actually had the guts to kill a man himself, not ordering it.

So did Kirk.

I also dont like TOS, to much camp for me

Camp is what made it fun

 Allod wrote:

So, in short: Disregard everything the other Trek series tell you about Vulcans, because you probably know more about them than the writers did. Also, disregard everything you ever learn about Tuvok, because the writers never remembered what they wrote about any particular character a week ago. Then, and only then, will anything a ST: Voyager character does ever make sense.

You just say that because Tuvok turned 100 years old twice.

 LordofHats wrote:
Much like Digimon and Pokemon, Deep Space 9 and Babylon 5 were two shows that developed independently of one another and turned out eerily similar. Besides, DS9 began airing in 1993, and Babylon Five started a year later. Its hard to rip off a show that hasn't hasn't even started filming when you've already aired your first episode..

It isn't that hard, when the guy who wrote the show comes to your station first and gives you a glimpse at the whole show's story

 Krellnus wrote:

 LordofHats wrote:
Much like Digimon and Pokemon, Deep Space 9 and Babylon 5 were two shows that developed independently of one another and turned out eerily similar. Besides, DS9 began airing in 1993, and Babylon Five started a year later. Its hard to rip off a show that hasn't hasn't even started filming when you've already aired your first episode..

It isn't that hard, when the guy who wrote the show comes to your station first and gives you a glimpse at the whole show's story

He's been boating around that story for years but any attention paid to production of DS9 shows its complete crap. Berman and Piller developed the premise of the series independently before the alledged Babylon 5 promo mateiral was even given to Paramount, and Straczynski's continual claim that Paramount used his materials to develop the show fly in the face of all the production material which shows DS9 to have been developed mostly on the fly, not heavily planned out like his own series. EDIT: Brandon Tartikoff who pushed the series' development from start to finish didn't even work for Paramount until 1991.

The superficial similarities between the two series were ultimately coincidence.

 Breotan wrote:

 Jehan-reznor wrote:
Who's Tuvok?

The Vulcan guy who didn't have to sleep with Braga to get his part.

Are you sure

DS9 was dissappointing , star trek's whole one episode and forget it syndrome, What i liked about B5 was that it was mapped out from beginning to end in broad lines.

I found a comical web site that skewers Enterprise. Some bad language but no bad pics.

http://www.firsttvdrama.com/enterprise/e40.php3

Now I'll admit I can be a bit OCD about plot holes and stuff, but that dude needs to get back on his meds.

I enjoyed the pilot episode of Voyager and thought it set things up nicely for a fresh Trek series, but all it took was one episode for the writers to revert to the nice, safe anomaly-of-the-week episodes that typified the TNG era and quietly shelved the interesting cards that Caretaker had put on the table. To me it was a retrograde step from DS9 in that it lacked the kind of story arc that was fast becoming the sine qua non for a quality modern series.

Each to their own of course, but I'll always see Voyager as a missed opportunity.

Absolutely. It could have brought together all the best parts of Battlestar Galactica (obviously the new series wasn't out yet, but the basic premise of the original one), and Star Trek. Can't Lose! Wanna bet?

 Breotan wrote:
I mean, "Blue" Alert? WTF?

Are you quite sure sir? It does mean changing the bulb.

 AegisGrimm wrote:
I'll always like The Next Generation, but if I was to go out and actually buy or download a Trek series to watch it again, it would be DS9. It was Star Trek written like Babylon Five.

This a 1,000 times. I loved TNG but if I was going to watch an actual Star Trek series over the course of a month or so it'd be DS9.

But then again I'm probably disqualified because my second choice would be Enterprise which I genuinely enjoyed.

 Hulksmash wrote:

 AegisGrimm wrote:
I'll always like The Next Generation, but if I was to go out and actually buy or download a Trek series to watch it again, it would be DS9. It was Star Trek written like Babylon Five.

This a 1,000 times. I loved TNG but if I was going to watch an actual Star Trek series over the course of a month or so it'd be DS9.

But then again I'm probably disqualified because my second choice would be Enterprise which I genuinely enjoyed.

I enjoyed Enterprise a lot as well. We seem to be a minority.

I think part of the problem for Enterprise was that after TNG, DS9, and Voyager, Enterprise went back to the old days of TOS where the human captain endlessly preached to everyone he met about how everything they were doing was wrong and that humans did it better (all Star Trek has degrees of this but its heaviest in Enterprise). The Vulcan's being such grandious douche bags also came off as odd.

It came off as anti-trek to some, and frankly most of the episodes were boring (season 1 especially, 2 and 3 were better). Their coolest idea was the Temporal Cold War and I always felt like they botched it at every turn.

 LordofHats wrote:
I think part of the problem for Enterprise was that after TNG, DS9, and Voyager, Enterprise went back to the old days of TOS where the human captain endlessly preached to everyone he met about how everything they were doing was wrong and that humans did it better (all Star Trek has degrees of this but its heaviest in Enterprise). The Vulcan's being such grandious douche bags also came off as odd.

It came off as anti-trek to some, and frankly most of the episodes were boring (season 1 especially, 2 and 3 were better). Their coolest idea was the Temporal Cold War and I always felt like they botched it at every turn.

Eff the temporal cold war. My biggest beef with Star Trek post TNG was how whenever the writers seemed to feel lazy, they threw some time travel gak in there. It got real old.

I enjoy well done time travel but yes. Its too often used as the last resort of a writer out of ideas and is pulled off poorly. Hell they never really even explained the specifics of the conflict. The Suliban disappeared off the earth, and then some random nazi aliens show up out of no where.

EDIT: Trials and Tribblations stands out as a good Trek time travel story, but then that episode never took itself very seriously.

 Howard A Treesong wrote:

 Breotan wrote:
I mean, "Blue" Alert? WTF?

Are you quite sure sir? It does mean changing the bulb.

It was funny on Red Dwarf. Unfortunately it was supposed to be serious (and exciting) on Voyager. The first time they took Voyager in for a landing on a planet's surface, Janeway called out, "Blue Alert!" and the lights went blue. It was a "did that just happen?" moment. The whole landing sequence was just too stupid to be believed. Giant, clunky landing gear didn't help, either. Fortunately, they never did the "Blue" alert again and I think some of the cast wish the DVDs were edited so it never happened the first time.