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 Peregrine wrote:
Void shields, on the other hand, transfer hits generated against another unit to the void shield.

Again that is wrong. The RaW for Building upgrades of VS says that, yes, but not the VS Generators Special Rule

 BlackTalos wrote:
3) A blast weapon inflicts hits according to the normal rules, and then the Special Rule says it hits the projected void shield but it's a single shot, so 1 hit?

You are inventing a rule that one shot can only produce one hit. This rule does not exist in the rules as published by GW. Please stop doing this.

Multiple Hit, on multiple models, there is only 1 void shield

And this would only matter if you somehow placed the template over the void shield and counted how many void shields were under it. However, you do not do this, you place the template over the model(s) in the target unit(s), scatter the templates, determine how many models are under the template and therefore hit, and then move all of those hits to the imaginary entity that will be suffering them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BlackTalos wrote:
Again that is wrong. The RaW for Building upgrades of VS says that, yes, but not the VS Generators Special Rule

The generator rules work the same way. If they don't then there is no way to determine whether or not a blast weapon hits a void shield, and as soon as you declare a shooting attack with a blast weapon against a unit inside a void shield the game breaks and can not continue.

 grendel083 wrote:

 BlackTalos wrote:
A blast weapon inflicts hits according to the normal rules, and then the Special Rule says it hits the projected void shield but it's a single shot, so 1 hit?

Only if there was a single model under the blast maker. That is the only way a blast can EVER generate a single hit.

Indeed. But as of Stronghold expansion, and the writing of this:
"Any shooting attack that originates from outside a Void Shield Zone and hits a target within the Void Shield Zone instead hits the projected void shield."
5 Hits produced by 1 template are transferred into a binary Hit/no Hit situation and assigned to the shield.
(Works the same for all weapons: Heavy 2: binary hit/no hit for both shots)

I fully agree that i have never seen a template generate less hits than what it covers, but this Rule as Written is brand new...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Peregrine wrote:

 BlackTalos wrote:
3) A blast weapon inflicts hits according to the normal rules, and then the Special Rule says it hits the projected void shield but it's a single shot, so 1 hit?

You are inventing a rule that one shot can only produce one hit. This rule does not exist in the rules as published by GW. Please stop doing this.

Multiple Hit, on multiple models, there is only 1 void shield

And this would only matter if you somehow placed the template over the void shield and counted how many void shields were under it. However, you do not do this, you place the template over the model(s) in the target unit(s), scatter the templates, determine how many models are under the template and therefore hit, and then move all of those hits to the imaginary entity that will be suffering them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BlackTalos wrote:
Again that is wrong. The RaW for Building upgrades of VS says that, yes, but not the VS Generators Special Rule

The generator rules work the same way. If they don't then there is no way to determine whether or not a blast weapon hits a void shield, and as soon as you declare a shooting attack with a blast weapon against a unit inside a void shield the game breaks and can not continue.

But they are not RaW the same at all:
1) "Any shooting attack that originates from outside a Void Shield Zone and hits a target within the Void Shield Zone instead hits the projected void shield."
2) "Whilst a building has a void shield, any hits scored by shooting attacks against the building, models embarked within it or upon its battlements will instead hit the void shield."

1) Your 1 shot causes a Hit on the shield WHEN it's caused a (3; 5; 22) hit on the target
2)Any Hits: 6? are instead taken on the shield: 6!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Peregrine wrote:
You are inventing a rule that one shot can only produce one hit. This rule does not exist in the rules as published by GW. Please stop doing this.

No, i am reading, and re-reading this: "Any shooting attack that originates from outside a Void Shield Zone and hits a target within the Void Shield Zone instead hits the projected void shield."

That is literally all that's important here

 BlackTalos wrote:

 grendel083 wrote:

 BlackTalos wrote:
A blast weapon inflicts hits according to the normal rules, and then the Special Rule says it hits the projected void shield but it's a single shot, so 1 hit?

Only if there was a single model under the blast maker. That is the only way a blast can EVER generate a single hit.

Indeed. But as of Stronghold expansion, and the writing of this:
"Any shooting attack that originates from outside a Void Shield Zone and hits a target within the Void Shield Zone instead hits the projected void shield."
5 Hits produced by 1 template are transferred into a binary Hit/no Hit situation and assigned to the shield.
(Works the same for all weapons: Heavy 2: binary hit/no hit for both shots)

I fully agree that i have never seen a template generate less hits than what it covers, but this Rule as Written is brand new...

We're back to an "unknown" number of hits against the shield from a blast.
One hit is not a valid answer, as one shot does not equal one hit as has been proven.
So how many hits?

 grendel083 wrote:

 BlackTalos wrote:

 grendel083 wrote:

 BlackTalos wrote:
A blast weapon inflicts hits according to the normal rules, and then the Special Rule says it hits the projected void shield but it's a single shot, so 1 hit?

Only if there was a single model under the blast maker. That is the only way a blast can EVER generate a single hit.

Indeed. But as of Stronghold expansion, and the writing of this:
"Any shooting attack that originates from outside a Void Shield Zone and hits a target within the Void Shield Zone instead hits the projected void shield."
5 Hits produced by 1 template are transferred into a binary Hit/no Hit situation and assigned to the shield.
(Works the same for all weapons: Heavy 2: binary hit/no hit for both shots)

I fully agree that i have never seen a template generate less hits than what it covers, but this Rule as Written is brand new...

We're back to an "unknown" number of hits against the shield from a blast.
One hit is not a valid answer, as one shot does not equal one hit as has been proven.
So how many hits?

Well we are still stuck at "instead hits the projected void shield." We know the blast hits the shield.
All i can say here is: Blast hits a Rhino? 1 Hit. Hits a Baneblade? 1 Hit. Shield is AV12, no facings, nothing... It sound like a single "something" to me, no?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'd probably even quote another part of the rule:
" If a unit is within 12" of more than one Void Shield Generator, and so within more than one Void Shield Zone when it is hit, randomly determine which of the buildings’ projected void shields is hit. "

Sounds like "One" void shield generator, no? I'd even say the word "Building" might be important here...

The guy is clearly trolling guys. He keeps reverting to 1 shot = 1 hit despite use proving that is not a rule. And he keeps equating to a Rhino which again we have proven is irrelevant because a Rhino is a unit of one model and the shield is not.

5 shots from a single shooting attack hit.
Your assertion is that all 5 transfer.
That assertion conflicts with your statement about blasts - where you have 5 shots from a single shooting attack hit and you only transfer 1.

 BlackTalos wrote:
All i can say here is: Blast hits a Rhino? 1 Hit. Hits a Baneblade? 1 Hit. Shield is AV12, no facings, nothing... It sound like a single "something" to me, no?

Of course it sounds like one! You're only listing single model units. That's a stupidly loaded answer.
How about:
Blast hits 5 Orks? 5 Hits.
Hits 10 Guardsmen? 10 Hits.
Sounds like multiple "something" to me, no?

And does the rule not say the attack hits the shield? You've quoted it enough times you should know it does.
The attack, which is more than capable of multiple hits.

 FlingitNow wrote:
The guy is clearly trolling guys.

Unfortunately I think you're right. I'm done with this thread unless someone more reasonable shows up to discuss the subject without just inventing their own rules and fighting to the death to defend them.

 grendel083 wrote:

 BlackTalos wrote:
All i can say here is: Blast hits a Rhino? 1 Hit. Hits a Baneblade? 1 Hit. Shield is AV12, no facings, nothing... It sound like a single "something" to me, no?

Of course it sounds like one! You're only listing single model units. That's a stupidly loaded answer.
How about:
Blast hits 5 Orks? 5 Hits.
Hits 10 Guardsmen? 10 Hits.
Sounds like multiple "something" to me, no?

And does the rule not say the attack hits the shield? You've quoted it enough times you should know it does.
The attack, which is more than capable of multiple hits.

Not against 1 shield, no. You purchase 1 building with 1 shield, that's how it is...

The guy is clearly trolling guys. He keeps reverting to 1 shot = 1 hit despite use proving that is not a rule. And he keeps equating to a Rhino which again we have proven is irrelevant because a Rhino is a unit of one model and the shield is not.

Keep going, Tenet 5: "5. Stick to discussing the rules, not the poster. Phrases like "Rules Lawyer", "Cheater" and "TFG" have no place in rules discussions. Don't depart from rules discussions by attaching value judgments to different interpretations. "

Thanks for your input!
Bye!

I know I know!
It is a single Special Rule and therefore generates 0, on the grounds it is not a model and blast markers need models to generate Hits!

 Peregrine wrote:

 FlingitNow wrote:
The guy is clearly trolling guys.

Unfortunately I think you're right. I'm done with this thread unless someone more reasonable shows up to discuss the subject without just inventing their own rules and fighting to the death to defend them.

Ok, up to you. I'm sorry but just "transferring hits" is not right according to RaW but fine, let's stop here we're not getting anywhere.

Many others share the exact same view but i was trying to argue why. Never mind...

 BlackTalos wrote:

 grendel083 wrote:

 BlackTalos wrote:
All i can say here is: Blast hits a Rhino? 1 Hit. Hits a Baneblade? 1 Hit. Shield is AV12, no facings, nothing... It sound like a single "something" to me, no?

Of course it sounds like one! You're only listing single model units. That's a stupidly loaded answer.
How about:
Blast hits 5 Orks? 5 Hits.
Hits 10 Guardsmen? 10 Hits.
Sounds like multiple "something" to me, no?

And does the rule not say the attack hits the shield? You've quoted it enough times you should know it does.
The attack, which is more than capable of multiple hits.

Not against 1 shield, no. You purchase 1 building with 1 shield, that's how it is...

Good job then that you don't at any point target the shield, nor roll to hit against the shield, nor place blast marker/templates opon the shield.
If you did you might have a point.
As it is you roll to hit against the target unit, place templates upon the target unit, and having hit the target (potentially multiple times) transfer the attack (which must include hits, or the roll to pen doesn't work).

If it's an assault weapon with multiple shots, or a blast weapon, all are capable of causing multiple hits against the unit.
To single out blasts (a single shot capable of multiple hits) and not a Tesla (a single shot capable of multiple hits) is strangly hipocritial.

 S.K.Ren wrote:
Pertinent Rules:
Building Upgrade: Void Shield - Stronghold Assault p120 Digital Version

Spoiler:

Whilst a building has a void shield, any hits scored by shooting attacks against the building, models embarked within it or upon its battlements will instead hit the void shield. A void shield has an Armour Value of 12. A glancing or penetrating hit (or any hit from a Destroyer weapon) scored against a void shield causes it to collapse. After this, further hits strike the original target instead. At the end of each of the controlling player’s turns, roll a dice for the collapsed void shield; a roll of 5+ instantly restores it.

Projected Void Shields - Stronghold Assault pp191-194 Digital Version.

Spoiler:

A Void Shield Generator has a single projected void shield. It can be upgraded to include additional layers of void shielding.

Each projected void shield has a 12" area of effect (measured from any point on the Void Shield Generator building), known as a Void Shield Zone. Any shooting attack that originates from outside a Void Shield Zone and hits a target within the Void Shield Zone instead hits the projected void shield. If a unit is within 12" of more than one Void Shield Generator, and so within more than one Void Shield Zone when it is hit, randomly determine which of the buildings’ projected void shields is hit.

Each projected void shield has an Armour Value of 12. A glancing or penetrating hit (or any hit from a Destroyer weapon) scored against a projected void shield causes it to collapse. If all the projected void shields have collapsed, further hits strike the original target instead. At the end of each of the controlling player’s turns, roll a dice for each projected void shield that has collapsed; each roll of 5+ instantly restores one shield.

Blast Markers And Templates - BRB p6

Spoiler:

...A unit takes a hit for each model that is fully, or even partially, underneath the template.
Emphasis theirs

Lets look at the Building Upgrade first.

Spoiler:

The key part of the rule is "Whilst a building has a void shield, any hits scored by shooting attacks against the building, models embarked within it or upon its battlements will instead hit the void shield."
Emphasis Mine

The order of operations is as follows.
1) Shooting is declared.
2) Shots are fired
3) Blast marker covers 4 models on a battlement for a total of 5 hits.
4) Void Shield takes 5 hits instead.
5) Any extra hits are reallocated back to the original unit.

Ok, I will concede that the Building Upgrade works on a per hit basis.

Now a look at the Projected Void Shields

Spoiler:

"Any shooting attack that originates from outside a Void Shield Zone and hits a target within the Void Shield Zone instead hits the projected void shield"
Emphasis Mine

Order of operations is as follows
1) Shooting is declared
2) Shots are fired
3) Blast marker covers X targets
4) Void Shield takes 1 hit instead

This time it's not the Hits that are being intercepted but the Attack. In this case my point still stands as the Void Shield is only a single entity. Its allowed to be hit by its own rule which overrides the hit/model restriction of blast markers.

I will leave it at this one, from someone who probably explained it better than i ever could...
And shall indeed leave it to someone who could argue it better.
I'm out too!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
No hard feels btw? Just unconverted...

rigeld2 wrote:
5 shots from a single shooting attack hit.
Your assertion is that all 5 transfer.
That assertion conflicts with your statement about blasts - where you have 5 shots from a single shooting attack hit and you only transfer 1.

Am I on ignore?

Edit:
That's poorly worded. 5 hits from a shooting attack. They transfer.
5 hits from a shooting attack. Because it's a blast it doesn't transfer. With no rules citation as to why.

 BlackTalos wrote:
I will leave it at this one, from someone who probably explained it better than i ever could...

Alot of rules quotes, but not much explanation.
An attack is transfered.
How can you make an attack without hits?
Where are those hits determined? You don't roll to hit on the target, then roll to hit on the shield again.
This explaination is full of way to many rule holes, ones that have already be brought up.

BlackTalos,
Personally, I don't believe anything is 'transferred' to the shield and that explanation exists to describe why the rest of the sequence is different to the normal To Wound process. I see the Shield Void Projection Special Rule as nothing more then that: A Special Rule. Like all other Special Rules, it can order us to abandon an already ongoing sequence of events in favor of an alternative method detailed within the rule itself. In this case the alternative sequence simply has each successful Hit resolve against the stated Armour Value and to 'collapse shields,' instead of inflicting casualties to the targeted unit, on successes.

The rule requires the To Hit Results to be calculated before it can be evoked, and for at least one to be successful
The interpretation that the Hit is recalculated fails to account for the 'non-model = 0' part of the Blast Marker equation, making the only outcome to be zero successes
Unless the shield is meant to be immune to blast weapons, this can not be correct

@ Talos: it doesn't matter. There is a total of four hits. If the first collapses the shield, three transfer to the squad. Exact same for blast weapons.

rigeld2 wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
5 shots from a single shooting attack hit.
Your assertion is that all 5 transfer.
That assertion conflicts with your statement about blasts - where you have 5 shots from a single shooting attack hit and you only transfer 1.

Am I on ignore?

No, just given up trying to argue when it's seen as Trolling...

 BlackTalos wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
5 shots from a single shooting attack hit.
Your assertion is that all 5 transfer.
That assertion conflicts with your statement about blasts - where you have 5 shots from a single shooting attack hit and you only transfer 1.

Am I on ignore?

No, just given up trying to argue when it's seen as Trolling...

To be fair both rigeld2 and myself have asked this question more than once with no answer. Neither have accused anyone of Trolling. Yet still no answer.

 BlackTalos wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
5 shots from a single shooting attack hit.
Your assertion is that all 5 transfer.
That assertion conflicts with your statement about blasts - where you have 5 shots from a single shooting attack hit and you only transfer 1.

Am I on ignore?

No, just given up trying to argue when it's seen as Trolling...

The persons asking this have not accused you of trolling. Please answer.

You aren't hitting the shield with the blast; you transfer the hits from the blast to the shield. Which, unless there is one model under, will always be more than one hit

You are still ignoring the blast rules.

 BlackTalos wrote:

 S.K.Ren wrote:
Pertinent Rules:
Building Upgrade: Void Shield - Stronghold Assault p120 Digital Version

Spoiler:

Whilst a building has a void shield, any hits scored by shooting attacks against the building, models embarked within it or upon its battlements will instead hit the void shield. A void shield has an Armour Value of 12. A glancing or penetrating hit (or any hit from a Destroyer weapon) scored against a void shield causes it to collapse. After this, further hits strike the original target instead. At the end of each of the controlling player’s turns, roll a dice for the collapsed void shield; a roll of 5+ instantly restores it.

Projected Void Shields - Stronghold Assault pp191-194 Digital Version.

Spoiler:

A Void Shield Generator has a single projected void shield. It can be upgraded to include additional layers of void shielding.

Each projected void shield has a 12" area of effect (measured from any point on the Void Shield Generator building), known as a Void Shield Zone. Any shooting attack that originates from outside a Void Shield Zone and hits a target within the Void Shield Zone instead hits the projected void shield. If a unit is within 12" of more than one Void Shield Generator, and so within more than one Void Shield Zone when it is hit, randomly determine which of the buildings’ projected void shields is hit.

Each projected void shield has an Armour Value of 12. A glancing or penetrating hit (or any hit from a Destroyer weapon) scored against a projected void shield causes it to collapse. If all the projected void shields have collapsed, further hits strike the original target instead. At the end of each of the controlling player’s turns, roll a dice for each projected void shield that has collapsed; each roll of 5+ instantly restores one shield.

Blast Markers And Templates - BRB p6

Spoiler:

...A unit takes a hit for each model that is fully, or even partially, underneath the template.
Emphasis theirs

Lets look at the Building Upgrade first.

Spoiler:

The key part of the rule is "Whilst a building has a void shield, any hits scored by shooting attacks against the building, models embarked within it or upon its battlements will instead hit the void shield."
Emphasis Mine

The order of operations is as follows.
1) Shooting is declared.
2) Shots are fired
3) Blast marker covers 4 models on a battlement for a total of 5 hits.
4) Void Shield takes 5 hits instead.
5) Any extra hits are reallocated back to the original unit.

Ok, I will concede that the Building Upgrade works on a per hit basis.

Now a look at the Projected Void Shields

Spoiler:

"Any shooting attack that originates from outside a Void Shield Zone and hits a target within the Void Shield Zone instead hits the projected void shield"
Emphasis Mine

Order of operations is as follows
1) Shooting is declared
2) Shots are fired
3) Blast marker covers X targets
4) Void Shield takes 1 hit instead

This time it's not the Hits that are being intercepted but the Attack. In this case my point still stands as the Void Shield is only a single entity. Its allowed to be hit by its own rule which overrides the hit/model restriction of blast markers.

I will leave it at this one, from someone who probably explained it better than i ever could...
And shall indeed leave it to someone who could argue it better.
I'm out too!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
No hard feels btw? Just unconverted...

On the Last Quote; The emPHASIS, is on the wrong sylABLE. It is clarifying that it effects shooting attacks as opposed to Assault Attacks. The part that matters is that it is Hits that instead hit the Shield.

This is so simple....."1 shot can only ever be one hit" is NOT a rule. Just as we roll dice for the assault 20 weapon to see how many times we hit, we roll for scatter and place a template to see how many times the blast weapon attack hits. It is literally the SAME mechanic accomplished in two different ways. You can not abide by one and throw out the other.

You have Ignored many of the posts, including my own, that utterly discredit your own logic. If you chose to play as you think it works, then that is nothing more than a house rule and should not be discussed here.

Hello again,

Thanks for explaining your position in more detail.

I can see now why you disagreed with BalckTalos's and my position. I admit its considerably less watertight than I thought previously.

I still can't say I agree with the transfer hits though. Their are only two ways I can see hits transferring:

-If "attack = hit" in the rules.

-or if the attack when it is transferred carries over how it actually happened (for example the number of models under blasts). This would imply that "everything" is carried over, not just hits. For example I fire some guns at units in cover (and in the shield zone). Does that give the void shield a cover save?

Anyway thanks for the discussion. I think we are going in circles a bit. Cheers!

or if the attack when it is transferred carries over how it actually happened (for example the number of models under blasts)

It HAS to work this way, otherwise hits from non-blast weapons would not be transfered either. Placing the template and rolling for scatter with a blast weapon is the same as rolling X dice for a weapon with the profile "Assault X" Both mechanics are used to determine how many hits a target unit will take. For the Assault weapon, if 4 dice come back as hits, 4 hits are scored against the unit and transferred to the shield. Similarly, if you place a template, roll for scatter, and it ends up covering 4 models, 4 hits are scored against the unit and then transferred to the shield. I think the part that people are getting caught up in is that the ways in which the hits are being generated are different from eachother. However, there is no provision in the Void Shield special rules that allows us to discard hits just because they were achieved by a different (but legal) method. Given this, we must treat these hits the same.

This leaves us with two options.

A: Attacks do not consist of "hits" and therefore "hits" CANNOT be transferred to the shield as part of the attack for ANY weapon.
B: Attacks do consist of "hits" and therefore "hits" MUST be transferred as part if the attack for ANY weapon.

If you go with option A, no shooting attack can ever hit the shield and the game breaks. Option B is our only possible outcome.

For example I fire some guns at units in cover (and in the shield zone). Does that give the void shield a cover save?

No. At the point where the void shield rule comes into effect, (immediately after determining hits) our attack consists only of hits. (misses are discarded, per the rules for shooting) Cover is a condition of the target model, not the attack. Since only the attack is transferred, cover is not.

Cheers!

Cheers mate.

Dast wrote:
Hello again,

Hi Dast you seem more willing to actually read what people have said and take it on board.

Thanks for explaining your position in more detail.

I can see now why you disagreed with BalckTalos's and my position. I admit its considerably less watertight than I thought previously.

What I think your position is: you take the attack and assume it has hit the shield instead of the unit. Thus assault weapons will hit as many times as they have hit and blast weapon count as being placed over the shield. The issue with the second part is two fold:

1) The shield is not a model (check BrB for definition of model) so if we did think that we had a blast marker over the shield and only the shield it generates no hits. So your 1 hit mechanism breaks the RaW of blast weapons.
2) Be recalculating the number of hits the weapon causes in this way we are being inconsistent. Both a blast weapon and assault weapon are single shooting attacks that can generate multiple hits. The blast does its hits by scattering and counting models. If we are recounting with blast weapons we should be rerolling to hit with assault weapons. We are never told to go back to the to hit roll and recalculate it in anyway so this breaks the RaW of VSP rules which come into effect after to hit rolls have been done and therefore after the number of hits the weapon has done has been calculated.

I still can't say I agree with the transfer hits though. Their are only two ways I can see hits transferring:

-If "attack = hit" in the rules.

No, an attack is equal to a unit firing its weapons.

-or if the attack when it is transferred carries over how it actually happened (for example the number of models under blasts). This would imply that "everything" is carried over, not just hits. For example I fire some guns at units in cover (and in the shield zone). Does that give the void shield a cover save?

Nearly right. An attack generates hits once it has generated hits the VSP rules ask if hits >= 1 if so the attack is worked out against the shield. We are not told to go back and recalculate hits in anyway we are just told to roll penetration so we have no choice but to do so for however many hits the attack generated.

The Void Shield is not a model and thus is inelligible for cover or indeed any save.

Anyway thanks for the discussion. I think we are going in circles a bit. Cheers!

I hope this helps your understanding of our stance. Cheers

Edit: clarity and stupid autocorrect...

nosferatu1001 wrote:

 BlackTalos wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
5 shots from a single shooting attack hit.
Your assertion is that all 5 transfer.
That assertion conflicts with your statement about blasts - where you have 5 shots from a single shooting attack hit and you only transfer 1.

Am I on ignore?

No, just given up trying to argue when it's seen as Trolling...

The persons asking this have not accused you of trolling. Please answer.

You aren't hitting the shield with the blast; you transfer the hits from the blast to the shield. Which, unless there is one model under, will always be more than one hit

You are still ignoring the blast rules.

Ok, as requested i will try to answer the Question to my understanding as these people are also trying to make ME understand my error.

The way i see this Rule applying is as follows:
-You apply the Blast Rules in Full, counting models, applying Cover saves from the direction of shots, etc. <- Not ignoring them
But then, I apply the Special Rule: This is applied to the current situation and modifies hits as we know them.
-You apply a Hit (very possibly a "new hit" to the shield by your weapon(s). This is the part where 5 hits indeed become 1 for templates, but 3 hits are still 3 hits with a Tesla weapon.
-You Roll to penetrate with those weapons.

The part where you replace the hits you have by a hit "made by the rule" is what seems to be the issue.

What I think your position is: you take the attack and assume it has hit the shield instead of the unit. Thus assault weapons will hit as many times as they have hit and blast weapon count as being placed over the shield. The issue with the second part is two fold:

1) The shield is not a model (check BrB for definition of model) so if we did think that we had a blast marker over the shield and only the shield it generates no hits. So your 1 hit mechanism breaks the RaW of blast weapons.
2) Be recalculating the number of hits the weapon causes in this way we are being inconsistent. Both a blast weapon and assault weapon are single shooting attacks that can generate multiple hits. The blast does its hits by scattering and counting models. If we are recounting with blast weapons we should be rerolling to hit with assault weapons. We are never told to go back to the to hit roll and recalculate it in anyway so this breaks the RaW of VSP rules which come into effect after to hit rolls have been done and therefore after the number of hits the weapon has done has been calculated.

This seems to be perfectly explaining my (and maybe others) position.
For 1) i do not believe we are breaking RaW for blast, as it is a modification, addition to the hits. I fully agree it is not a model, and that a Blast over the shield would not generate anything, but the rule is another stage after the Blast rules have been applied. In a similar way of how you resolve blast, then wounds, then cover saves: I would say you resolve Blast, then a hit on the shield, then armour pen.
2) I don't think is happening just that way, it's not a return to the hit stage, it's a filter for it, a next stage that the Rule creates. Just like the Rending Special Rule:
Your assault canon has hit 3 Times, including 1 roll of 6. That roll of 6 doesn't force you to re-roll to hit, it just says "that hit is now AP2". A blast scoring 5 Hits does not need to be re-Hit, it just "scores 1 hit"


I don't know if this showed my stance better, but I hope it shows i cannot agree with your position either, because i feel the VSG Special Rule if Fully contained within the RAW.
Also thanks for taking the time going to more depth rather than just saying "it has to be wrong".

ok, only there are no rules to support your supposition that those 5 hits become one hit.

 BlackTalos wrote:
The way i see this Rule applying is as follows:
-You apply the Blast Rules in Full, counting models, applying Cover saves from the direction of shots, etc. <- Not ignoring them
But then, I apply the Special Rule: This is applied to the current situation and modifies hits as we know them.
-You apply a Hit (very possibly a "new hit" to the shield by your weapon(s). This is the part where 5 hits indeed become 1 for templates, but 3 hits are still 3 hits with a Tesla weapon.
-You Roll to penetrate with those weapons.

Where in the rule does it modify hits? Where does it even mention hits? The shooting attack is intercepted meaning there should be no difference in how you handle blast vs non-blast. All it does is take the shooting attack and force the resolution to the shield instead of the initial target.

a blast weapon that scores 5 hits has scored 5 hits, not one.