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You fire from the firer. Roll scatter and if the unit is hit you INSTEAD hit the shield. You don't hit the unit and the shield you instead hit the shield. Which is a single AV 12 Entity. Then it says remaining shots hit what was under it.

You are hitting the unit then the shield then the unit again. Instead of hitting the shield like the destuctions say. You are adding an extra step that it doesn't tell you to do.

JUST WANTING A CLARIFACATION:

If a unit (infantry) is wholly within a 12" bubble of protection of a void shield and whether it's a blast or a D or whatever, if it is hit, the hit is instead resolved against the void shield (RAW).

"Any shooting attack that originates from outside a Void Shield Zone and hits a target within the Void Shield Zone instead hits the projected void shield."

That's RAW. So if there's a blob of 12 infantry within a VS and they are hit (1 or 100 infantry) then that hit is transferred to the void shield. One. Not two or twelve or one hundred. One. That's RAW.

Right?

 Mythra wrote:
You fire from the firer. Roll scatter and if the unit is hit you INSTEAD hit the shield. You don't hit the unit and the shield you instead hit the shield. Which is a single AV 12 Entity. Then it says remaining shots hit what was under it.

You are hitting the unit then the shield then the unit again. Instead of hitting the shield like the destuctions say. You are adding an extra step that it doesn't tell you to do.

I didn't ask about Blasts this time, I meant any shooting attack.

How do you determine if the unit is hit for the shield to get hit from a heavy 3 weapon?

How many hits does the Shield take?

Mythra please explain using rules how you determine how many hits a blast marker does to the shield. You and Talos keep saying 1 hit but have yet to explain why a blast does 1 hit to the shield.

As for our position it is simple. For a shooting attack you go through the following 3 stages:

1) Roll to hit - this stage generates how many hits the shooting attack does.
2) Roll to wound/pen - this is where you take those hits and see if you do damage with them.
3) Roll saves and remove casualties- you take the successful bits of damage from step 2 apply them to the nearest model in turn taking any applicable saves, removing casualties or rolling on the damage table as appropriate.

The VSP tells us to intercept the shooting attack after stage 1 (after we have determined if we have hit a unit within the shield, which also determines how many times) and instead resolve that attack from stage 2 onwards against the shield (with a rule allowing hits to subsequently go back to the unit after the shield is down). You have no permission to intercept stage 1 or change how stage 1 is resolved. You also have no permission to go back to stage 1 after the transfer and recalculate hits. You also have no way of calculating hits from a blast marker on a shield as it is not a weapon. So either all hits regardless what type of attack are transferred, or 1 hit is transfered from any type of attack or no hits are transferred from any type of attack.

 FlingitNow wrote:
How does you to hit procedure 02 work exactly. You just seem to say hit repeatedly until you get to the number of hits you want.

Say a blast hits a unit of 9 guardsmen within a VSP how do we work out how many hits go on the shield? What rules are telling you to do that?

As i have said before: The assumption I make which you cannot agree with: 1 hit on the shield because the shield is a singular Entity with a Rule.

I have actually considered a case which will prove your way of doing it is wrong and breaks RaW too:
I have a squadron of 3 Vindicators about 5" away from your shield, which has 2 shields. You have 3 Units of 5 Marines.
I shoot as 1 attack, and all 3 template score a "HIT" on the scatter dice. The template is above 3 Guys from Unit A; 2 Guys from Unit B, and ALL of Unit C which was my original target.

Let's apply your method:
I transfer the first 10 Hits of the first template to the shield: S10 both Pen easily. You then apply 8 Remaining hits onto the Units, but which unit? B gets no hits? C only gets 3 Hits? Clear breach of RaW and allocating hits.

Let's apply our method:
I transfer the first 10 hits to the shield: (binary:it has hit) therefore i Pen 1 shield and it goes down.
I transfer the second shot (still "same attack") to Pen a second shield
Both shields are down and i now have a remaining Hit with my last shot that kills ALL of C, 3 from A and 2 from B because i roll no 1s to Wound.

It just seems the second method adheres to RaW much better... (I agree, apart from the part where I assume a blast is a binary single hit on the shield from how i read VSG RaW)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mythra wrote:
Which is a single AV 12 Entity.

This is basically the assumption we are making that you are having trouble with.
If you could prove that the shield is not 1 entity (like 1 building), even if "imaginary" (produced by a Special Rule) then i would start agreeing with more than 1 hit.

PS:

If a unit is within 12" of more than one Void Shield Generator, and so within more than one Void Shield Zone when it is hit, randomly determine which of the buildings’ projected void shields is hit.

(More than ONE void shield) where we roll off between A hit (singular) on VSG A or B

If you are transferring the hits from a Non-blast weapon without recalculating the hits, why would you not do the same with a Blast/template weapon?

The Hits are unit by unit. For your question here; you have 3 separate groups of hits that transfer to the shield. Shooting resolution is Sequential. You apply the Hits from whichever unit you(the shooting player, as he is the active player in this) wish first resolving those hits on the Shield until either all the hits are resolved or all the shields are down. The remaining hits from the other 2 squads wait and either just go back to their units(or rather never transfer to the shield at all) or are resolved against the shield in sequence(if the first set of hits did not strip all the shields).

 FlingitNow wrote:
Mythra please explain using rules how you determine how many hits a blast marker does to the shield. You and Talos keep saying 1 hit but have yet to explain why a blast does 1 hit to the shield.

As for our position it is simple. For a shooting attack you go through the following 3 stages:

1) Roll to hit - this stage generates how many hits the shooting attack does.
1.5) VSG Rule: Roll to hit - but you don't roll, you just have a Hit on every shot that Hit previously
2) Roll to wound/pen - this is where you take those hits and see if you do damage with them.
3) Roll saves and remove casualties- you take the successful bits of damage from step 2 apply them to the nearest model in turn taking any applicable saves, removing casualties or rolling on the damage table as appropriate.

The VSP tells us to intercept the shooting attack after stage 1 (after we have determined if we have hit a unit within the shield, which also determines how many times) and instead resolve that attack from stage 2 onwards against the shield (with a rule allowing hits to subsequently go back to the unit after the shield is down). You have no permission to intercept stage 1 or change how stage 1 is resolved. You also have no permission to go back to stage 1 after the transfer and recalculate hits. You also have no way of calculating hits from a blast marker on a shield as it is not a weapon. So either all hits regardless what type of attack are transferred, or 1 hit is transfered from any type of attack or no hits are transferred from any type of attack.

I would add 1.5) in our resolution. When you say "instead resolve that attack from stage 2 onwards against the shield (with a rule allowing hits to subsequently go back to the unit after the shield is down)", i agree but not using Hits from 1), using hits from 1.5 (not using hits on the target unit, but Hits on the shield)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kommissar Kel wrote:
If you are transferring the hits from a Non-blast weapon without recalculating the hits, why would you not do the same with a Blast/template weapon?

The Hits are unit by unit. For your question here; you have 3 separate groups of hits that transfer to the shield. Shooting resolution is Sequential. You apply the Hits from whichever unit you(the shooting player, as he is the active player in this) wish first resolving those hits on the Shield until either all the hits are resolved or all the shields are down. The remaining hits from the other 2 squads wait and either just go back to their units(or rather never transfer to the shield at all) or are resolved against the shield in sequence(if the first set of hits did not strip all the shields).

I do believe Blast weapons hits are simultaneous, but looking into the Rules atm and can't seem to find one or the other.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
All i could find was in the FAQ:
Q: In a multiple barrage, do you determine all of the hits and
all of the Wounds separately for each blast, or do you resolve all
of blasts in one go? (p34)
A: Work out the total number of models hit by each
template, then proceed to allocate Wounds and remove
casualties as normal for the models hit by each seperate
template.

Simultaneous for Barrage, and technically that is a Blast weapon?

In any case, it does create an issue you would not have if the 1 blast takes a shield down or doesn't...?

That answer says to follow the rules.

Simultaneous to hit, then normal resolution of the hits.

Normal resolution is sequential.

 Kommissar Kel wrote:
If you are transferring the hits from a Non-blast weapon without recalculating the hits, why would you not do the same with a Blast/template weapon?

1.5) VSG Rule: Roll to hit - but you don't roll, you just have a Hit on every shot that Hit previously

You do re-calculate all hits, hence my wording.

A tesla weapon causing 3 hits on the target counts as hitting the shield ONCE. But that 1 hit was a 6, so it adds another 2 hits to the shield.

So just as blast goes from 10 hits => 1 Hit, Tesla goes 3 Hits => 1 Hit + 2 for your 6 ( so 1 => 3 =>1 => 3 in a way)

 BlackTalos wrote:
I would add 1.5) in our resolution. When you say "instead resolve that attack from stage 2 onwards against the shield (with a rule allowing hits to subsequently go back to the unit after the shield is down)", i agree but not using Hits from 1), using hits from 1.5 (not using hits on the target unit, but Hits on the shield)

Why are you inserting that step? Do you have a rules basis?

I do believe Blast weapons hits are simultaneous, but looking into the Rules atm and can't seem to find one or the other.

Tallying the hits is, yes. But allocating the wounds do individual units is not.

Simultaneous for Barrage, and technically that is a Blast weapon?

No - Barrage is Barrage.

In any case, it does create an issue you would not have if the 1 blast takes a shield down or doesn't...?

It doesn't if you follow the rules and don't make assumptions.

 Kommissar Kel wrote:
That answer says to follow the rules.

Simultaneous to hit, then normal resolution of the hits.

Normal resolution is sequential.

So you as the shooter would decide which 2 marines are saved by HIS shields?

Now you are making less sense in your argument.

The Blast causes 10 hits, the hits trasnfer, that is 10 hits transferring. Just like the Bonus 2 hits from the tesla weapon.

 BlackTalos wrote:
You do re-calculate all hits, hence my wording.

A tesla weapon causing 3 hits on the target counts as hitting the shield ONCE. But that 1 hit was a 6, so it adds another 2 hits to the shield.

So just as blast goes from 10 hits => 1 Hit, Tesla goes 3 Hits => 1 Hit + 2 for your 6 ( so 1 => 3 =>1 => 3 in a way)

You've failed to cite support for that assertion - please do so.
You've failed to show why going 1->3->1->3 is fine, but 1->3->1->3 is not.
In case you're confused, the first is Tesla, the second is a blast that hits 3 models.

rigeld2 wrote:

 BlackTalos wrote:
I would add 1.5) in our resolution. When you say "instead resolve that attack from stage 2 onwards against the shield (with a rule allowing hits to subsequently go back to the unit after the shield is down)", i agree but not using Hits from 1), using hits from 1.5 (not using hits on the target unit, but Hits on the shield)

Why are you inserting that step? Do you have a rules basis?

Yes: the VSG special Rule: "Any shooting attack that originates from outside a Void Shield Zone and hits a target within the Void Shield Zone instead hits the projected void shield."

rigeld2 wrote:

I do believe Blast weapons hits are simultaneous, but looking into the Rules atm and can't seem to find one or the other.

Tallying the hits is, yes. But allocating the wounds do individual units is not.

Shield rule intercepts and returns Hits BEFORE allocating wounds?

rigeld2 wrote:

Simultaneous for Barrage, and technically that is a Blast weapon?

No - Barrage is Barrage.

Ok - all i could find for question: Blast Hitting multiple units

rigeld2 wrote:

In any case, it does create an issue you would not have if the 1 blast takes a shield down or doesn't...?

It doesn't if you follow the rules and don't make assumptions.

Where your assumption is: transferring all hits.

 BlackTalos wrote:

 Kommissar Kel wrote:
That answer says to follow the rules.

Simultaneous to hit, then normal resolution of the hits.

Normal resolution is sequential.

So you as the shooter would decide which 2 marines are saved by HIS shields?

You, as the shooter, would decide which unit does not lose 2 models.

 Kommissar Kel wrote:
Now you are making less sense in your argument.

The Blast causes 10 hits, the hits trasnfer, that is 10 hits transferring. Just like the Bonus 2 hits from the tesla weapon.

Well no, because Telsa adds hit AFTER you've hit, whereas Blast doesn't add more hits to the first?

 BlackTalos wrote:

 Kommissar Kel wrote:
That answer says to follow the rules.

Simultaneous to hit, then normal resolution of the hits.

Normal resolution is sequential.

So you as the shooter would decide which 2 marines are saved by HIS shields?

Just Like you as the Shooter decides which mixed wounds effect the unit first(3 heavy Bolter, 2 Plasma gun and 16 Bolter shots causing 2,2, and 8 wounds respecitively has the shooting player decide the order in which those wounds are allocated).

 BlackTalos wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

 BlackTalos wrote:
I would add 1.5) in our resolution. When you say "instead resolve that attack from stage 2 onwards against the shield (with a rule allowing hits to subsequently go back to the unit after the shield is down)", i agree but not using Hits from 1), using hits from 1.5 (not using hits on the target unit, but Hits on the shield)

Why are you inserting that step? Do you have a rules basis?

Yes: the VSG special Rule: "Any shooting attack that originates from outside a Void Shield Zone and hits a target within the Void Shield Zone instead hits the projected void shield."

Sorry - I don't see the bolded in that rules quote. Could you clarify for me?

rigeld2 wrote:

I do believe Blast weapons hits are simultaneous, but looking into the Rules atm and can't seem to find one or the other.

Tallying the hits is, yes. But allocating the wounds do individual units is not.

Shield rule intercepts and returns Hits BEFORE allocating wounds?

Well... Yes. And?

rigeld2 wrote:

In any case, it does create an issue you would not have if the 1 blast takes a shield down or doesn't...?

It doesn't if you follow the rules and don't make assumptions.

Where your assumption is: transferring all hits.

Hits are part of the shooting attack. The shooting attack is transferred. I'm making no assumptions. Your assumption is that hits are recalculated and have cited no rules support.

rigeld2 wrote:

 BlackTalos wrote:
You do re-calculate all hits, hence my wording.

A tesla weapon causing 3 hits on the target counts as hitting the shield ONCE. But that 1 hit was a 6, so it adds another 2 hits to the shield.

So just as blast goes from 10 hits => 1 Hit, Tesla goes 3 Hits => 1 Hit + 2 for your 6 ( so 1 => 3 =>1 => 3 in a way)

You've failed to cite support for that assertion - please do so.
You've failed to show why going 1->3->1->3 is fine, but 1->3->1->3 is not.
In case you're confused, the first is Tesla, the second is a blast that hits 3 models.

Blast cannot be 1 - 3 - 1 - 3 because:

rigeld2 wrote:
Tallying the hits is, yes.

it can only be 3 - 1 - X where X cannot exist as a blast is simultaneous in it's hits

If you are asking about the re-counting of hits, the assertion is the VSG Special Rule

 BlackTalos wrote:

 Kommissar Kel wrote:
Now you are making less sense in your argument.

The Blast causes 10 hits, the hits trasnfer, that is 10 hits transferring. Just like the Bonus 2 hits from the tesla weapon.

Well no, because Telsa adds hit AFTER you've hit, whereas Blast doesn't add more hits to the first?

Tilting at windmills.

It is ok to admit that you are wrong, I do it all the time.

 Kommissar Kel wrote:

 BlackTalos wrote:

 Kommissar Kel wrote:
That answer says to follow the rules.

Simultaneous to hit, then normal resolution of the hits.

Normal resolution is sequential.

So you as the shooter would decide which 2 marines are saved by HIS shields?

Just Like you as the Shooter decides which mixed wounds effect the unit first(3 heavy Bolter, 2 Plasma gun and 16 Bolter shots causing 2,2, and 8 wounds respecitively has the shooting player decide the order in which those wounds are allocated).

Yes, wounding. I do believe VSG happens even before the first marine is rolled to wound (even though you have a wounding phase in the VSG)
Creating another argument in my favour: the VSG has it's own Wounding phase that happens before the 1st marine is hit, why can it's own to Hit phase be impossible?

 BlackTalos wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

 BlackTalos wrote:
You do re-calculate all hits, hence my wording.

A tesla weapon causing 3 hits on the target counts as hitting the shield ONCE. But that 1 hit was a 6, so it adds another 2 hits to the shield.

So just as blast goes from 10 hits => 1 Hit, Tesla goes 3 Hits => 1 Hit + 2 for your 6 ( so 1 => 3 =>1 => 3 in a way)

You've failed to cite support for that assertion - please do so.
You've failed to show why going 1->3->1->3 is fine, but 1->3->1->3 is not.
In case you're confused, the first is Tesla, the second is a blast that hits 3 models.

Blast cannot be 1 - 3 - 1 - 3 because:

rigeld2 wrote:
Tallying the hits is, yes.

it can only be 3 - 1 - X where X cannot exist as a blast is simultaneous in it's hits

If you are asking about the re-counting of hits, the assertion is the VSG Special Rule

No, it's not. The VSG rule never - ever - tells you to recalculate hits. That's a blatant misquote.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BlackTalos wrote:

 Kommissar Kel wrote:

 BlackTalos wrote:

 Kommissar Kel wrote:
That answer says to follow the rules.

Simultaneous to hit, then normal resolution of the hits.

Normal resolution is sequential.

So you as the shooter would decide which 2 marines are saved by HIS shields?

Just Like you as the Shooter decides which mixed wounds effect the unit first(3 heavy Bolter, 2 Plasma gun and 16 Bolter shots causing 2,2, and 8 wounds respecitively has the shooting player decide the order in which those wounds are allocated).

Yes, wounding. I do believe VSG happens even before the first marine is rolled to wound (even though you have a wounding phase in the VSG)
Creating another argument in my favour: the VSG has it's own Wounding phase that happens before the 1st marine is hit, why can it's own to Hit phase be impossible?

Because the shooting attack is transferred after to hit rolls are made.

 Kommissar Kel wrote:

 BlackTalos wrote:

 Kommissar Kel wrote:
Now you are making less sense in your argument.

The Blast causes 10 hits, the hits trasnfer, that is 10 hits transferring. Just like the Bonus 2 hits from the tesla weapon.

Well no, because Telsa adds hit AFTER you've hit, whereas Blast doesn't add more hits to the first?

Tilting at windmills.

It is ok to admit that you are wrong, I do it all the time.

I know, still going around in circles, and finding it hard to get my argument across, but i'm still basing myself on the RaW and unless you want me to say the RaW is wrong? =S

 BlackTalos wrote:

 Kommissar Kel wrote:

 BlackTalos wrote:

 Kommissar Kel wrote:
That answer says to follow the rules.

Simultaneous to hit, then normal resolution of the hits.

Normal resolution is sequential.

So you as the shooter would decide which 2 marines are saved by HIS shields?

Just Like you as the Shooter decides which mixed wounds effect the unit first(3 heavy Bolter, 2 Plasma gun and 16 Bolter shots causing 2,2, and 8 wounds respecitively has the shooting player decide the order in which those wounds are allocated).

Yes, wounding. I do believe VSG happens even before the first marine is rolled to wound (even though you have a wounding phase in the VSG)
Creating another argument in my favour: the VSG has it's own Wounding phase that happens before the 1st marine is hit, why can it's own to Hit phase be impossible?

It has to be after the first marine is hit; that is the only way that you can determine that the unit was hit in order to trigger the PVS rules; the unit must be hit, those hits then transfer.

Besides, everything after To hit is sequential, whether it is resolved on the Shield or the unit does not matter one bit; you have already determined the hits to the unit, and are now going through the remaining processes for those hits resolution.


I am saying you are misinterpreting the RAW. I have used nothing but the RAW to counter your arguments and your argument is based off of assumptions that the hits on the unit do not transfer in exactly 1 case

rigeld2 wrote:
Because the shooting attack is transferred after to hit rolls are made.

Yes, and that transferring is quoted "instead hits the projected void shield."

hits the projected void shield = Hit on void shield (not "all those hits you counted on the target") Hit singular


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 doktor_g wrote:
JUST WANTING A CLARIFACATION:

If a unit (infantry) is wholly within a 12" bubble of protection of a void shield and whether it's a blast or a D or whatever, if it is hit, the hit is instead resolved against the void shield (RAW).

"Any shooting attack that originates from outside a Void Shield Zone and hits a target within the Void Shield Zone instead hits the projected void shield."

That's RAW. So if there's a blob of 12 infantry within a VS and they are hit (1 or 100 infantry) then that hit is transferred to the void shield. One. Not two or twelve or one hundred. One. That's RAW.

Right?

That's how some of us see it indeed =P

But by the looks of things it's about 50/50 for and against, would that by any chance be those who have them and not? lol

Actually Doktor G is saying that 2 Auto Cannon hits on the unit equals 1 Hit on the Shield; which is right out.

 Kommissar Kel wrote:
It has to be after the first marine is hit; that is the only way that you can determine that the unit was hit in order to trigger the PVS rules; the unit must be hit, those hits then transfer.

Besides, everything after To hit is sequential, whether it is resolved on the Shield or the unit does not matter one bit; you have already determined the hits to the unit, and are now going through the remaining processes for those hits resolution.


I am saying you are misinterpreting the RAW. I have used nothing but the RAW to counter your arguments and your argument is based off of assumptions that the hits on the unit do not transfer in exactly 1 case

Well i would say you are misinterpreting RaW, as i have only ever used the VSG Special Rule for my arguments, but this way of working won't go anywhere at all...

Why would the Rule quote: " If all the projected void shields have collapsed, further hits strike the original target instead." Those further hits are the 8 left over by your template of 10. If those Hits "strike the original target instead", Why? I though those hits had already hit, why assign them again?

Following your path:
10 Hits, so you try to pen the shield 10 times, but are left with 8, so now the target is assigned 8 Hit = 18?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kommissar Kel wrote:
Actually Doktor G is saying that 2 Auto Cannon hits on the unit equals 1 Hit on the Shield; which is right out.

Yeah it's not really clear what is meant, thanks. I though he was reading it like I did.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Have we got another strange/weird shooting weapon, not Blast and not Telsa to which i could apply the VSG SR as i read it and see if we can clear it up?

Black Talos you have NEVER stated how you work out how many hits a boast marker does on a shield. You've just said 1 entity means 1 hit despite this being proven false in RaW.

You've claimed the the hits are recalculated when the attack is transferred to the shield yet again despite this being proven false in RaW.

You've claimed that an assault 20 weapon does transfer all its hits but not a blast weapon with absolutely no rules telling you to treat them differently.

The RaW is not 50/50 it is very clear on this issue. A shooting attack that contains 1 or more blast weapons targets a guardsmen unit within the VSP. It generates 10 hits the VSP rules tell that at this point (after the hits have been calculated and been determined to be equal or greater than 1) that the attack instead hits the shield. So those 10 hits that the attack has generated move to the shield instead of the unit RAW. If the shield collapses after 2 hits the remaining 8 hits go back to the original target. This is the process the rules tell us to follow.

When your RaW interpretation involves you doing things that you are not told to do (like inventing procedure to hit 02) it is probably not RaW if you have to make up new rules for how a weapon type interacts with your rules (1 shot = 1 hit for blast weapons but not Tesla, as is in either case entirely made up, plus a blast weapon being able to cause a hit on an entity rather than by counting models) then again your interpretation is not RaW.

I have another one for you to try to work your assertion on.

beam weapons.

they do not have a set number of models hit and cause a number of hits = to the number of models underneath.

 BlackTalos wrote:

 Kommissar Kel wrote:
It has to be after the first marine is hit; that is the only way that you can determine that the unit was hit in order to trigger the PVS rules; the unit must be hit, those hits then transfer.

Besides, everything after To hit is sequential, whether it is resolved on the Shield or the unit does not matter one bit; you have already determined the hits to the unit, and are now going through the remaining processes for those hits resolution.


I am saying you are misinterpreting the RAW. I have used nothing but the RAW to counter your arguments and your argument is based off of assumptions that the hits on the unit do not transfer in exactly 1 case

Well i would say you are misinterpreting RaW, as i have only ever used the VSG Special Rule for my arguments, but this way of working won't go anywhere at all...

Why would the Rule quote: " If all the projected void shields have collapsed, further hits strike the original target instead." Those further hits are the 8 left over by your template of 10. If those Hits "strike the original target instead", Why? I though those hits had already hit, why assign them again?

Following your path:
10 Hits, so you try to pen the shield 10 times, but are left with 8, so now the target is assigned 8 Hit = 18?

Yes because Penetration rolls and Wound allocation all happens sequentially.

It is not that you try to penetrate the shield 10 times, it is that the 10 hits from the unit are transferred to the shield, the hits then start resolving penetration rolls 1 at a time and after the second one(using you example) the shield falls, the further hits(remaining 8) are then returned to the unit that was originally hit where each hit has you roll to wound, and then saves are attempted, and then the wounds are allocated.


You you want a fluffy or Cinematic imagining it would be that the blast strikes into the shield, overcoming its protective barrier and then still splashing into the unit.