Switch Theme:

Which trays do you buy and why?  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





Hi all,

I am looking to get some trays produced to sell to gamers, and from browsing various forums it seems the most popular brands are KR Multicase and BattleFoam. I would like to talk to all of you to find out which trays you use for your miniatures and why and would also like to hear from you which trays you would like to be produced that are currently unavailable.

I know there's many systems out there and for now I will start with 40k, fantasy and warmachine, however I would like to venture into other systems in the future.

Any and all feedback would be appreciated as it would be pointless me producing trays no one wants or needs.

Thank you


Tl;dr

Why do you like [insert] company?

Which trays do you buy and why?

Which trays would you like to see which haven't been made yet?

Are current prices too high? If so how much do you think is fair?

   
Made in us
Servoarm Flailing Magos







I like the Battlefoam stuff, but not for any specific region at the moment and I can definitely find a few complaints with the company as far as customer support.

I buy a mix of custom-cut. pre-cut, and pluck foam for different needs.

I think prices are a bit high at present.

Working on someting you'll either love or hate. Hopefully to be revealed by November.
Play the games that make you happy. 
   
Made in us
Shrieking Traitor Sentinel Pilot




New Bedford, MA

I make my own. Right now I'm gluing neodymium magnets to everything and attaching them metal trays which are going to be fit in self-made transports from old luggage. It's safer, more space efficient, easier to setup and play, and a hell of a lot cheaper.

ColouroftheGods has a short video about it.
[youtube] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mp_f232DSyg [/youtube]

Maybe there'd be an angle there for you to work with.

I notice my posts seem to bring threads to a screeching halt. Considering the content of most threads on dakka, you're welcome. 
   
Made in gb
Joined the Military for Authentic Experience





On an Express Elevator to Hell!!

Have a collection of the Feldherr bags. Very simple system, foam in them is fine, bags look non-descript enough that I'm not going to get people pointing or laughing at me, or mugging me, and perhaps most importantly you can get them dirt-cheap.

Epic 30K&40K! A new players guide, contributors welcome https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/751316.page
 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





 Balance wrote:
I like the Battlefoam stuff, but not for any specific region at the moment and I can definitely find a few complaints with the company as far as customer support.

I buy a mix of custom-cut. pre-cut, and pluck foam for different needs.

I think prices are a bit high at present.


Which models do you use the custom cut for?

If the prices were low enough you would buy them? I know BattleFoam trays are $19-25 how much would you think is fair?


 Boggy Man wrote:
I make my own. Right now I'm gluing neodymium magnets to everything and attaching them metal trays which are going to be fit in self-made transports from old luggage. It's safer, more space efficient, easier to setup and play, and a hell of a lot cheaper.

ColouroftheGods has a short video about it.
[youtube] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mp_f232DSyg [/youtube]

Maybe there'd be an angle there for you to work with.


I have always liked the idea of the magnets, though I have always found the idea so cheap and easy for people to do it would be pointless for a company to try and market it. Do you have any pictures of your endeavours?


 Pacific wrote:
Have a collection of the Feldherr bags. Very simple system, foam in them is fine, bags look non-descript enough that I'm not going to get people pointing or laughing at me, or mugging me, and perhaps most importantly you can get them dirt-cheap.


I did check them out but when I did some forum searches on various sites little came up for them. I can see the appeal with the bags, but when it comes to the trays you're very limited to what you can store in there. What do you use to store tanks?

_____

Thanks for the comments so far, I am surprised by the views to comments ratios, I thought most would be happy for a cheaper alternative? *shrugs*

   
Made in gb
Sergeant




Darlington

I go for the KR system - good quality, flexible (usually get their pre-cut foam) and I like the fact I get the cardboard boxes and can store all my models on shelves and just pull out the boxes I need to put into the more durable aluminium box for transporting to play

Potentially Lethal - My Gaming Blog
 
   
Made in gb
Multispectral Nisse




Luton, UK

I'm another KR user. The modularity of the system is the big seller to me. I'm not sure what another range could offer that would tempt me away.

“Good people are quick to help others in need, without hesitation or requiring proof the need is genuine. The wicked will believe they are fighting for good, but when others are in need they’ll be reluctant to help, withholding compassion until they see proof of that need. And yet Evil is quick to condemn, vilify and attack. For Evil, proof isn’t needed to bring harm, only hatred and a belief in the cause.” 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





 PotentiallyLethal wrote:
I go for the KR system - good quality, flexible (usually get their pre-cut foam) and I like the fact I get the cardboard boxes and can store all my models on shelves and just pull out the boxes I need to put into the more durable aluminium box for transporting to play


 Riquende wrote:
I'm another KR user. The modularity of the system is the big seller to me. I'm not sure what another range could offer that would tempt me away.



Would you both mind sharing how many cases and which ones you have?

Say if I developed a similar system but the cardboard case was a little bigger so you could fit 4 land raiders flat with their sponsons on and can stack two infantry trays ontop (150mm total), smarter customization with what you can fit on a tray, and the overall cost of the case and trays would be cheaper. Would that be enough to tempt you?

   
Made in gb
Multispectral Nisse




Luton, UK

Tyron wrote:
Would you both mind sharing how many cases and which ones you have?


I've got 4 card cases with a wide variety of trays in each - in fact, one has no trays and has been converted to hold a metal place for putting my Kings of War unit trays on. It's not really a case of 'which one' with them because each one has been customised to be perfect for its intended role - that's the benefit of KR's system. This year I plan to get 3 more card cases as I finish painting projects.

I do also have an Aquila 2 and an Aquila 4 for skirmish games, the trays from these sometimes swap into the card cases, depending on game.

Say if I developed a similar system but the cardboard case was a little bigger so you could fit 4 land raiders flat with their sponsons on and can stack two infantry trays ontop (150mm total), smarter customization with what you can fit on a tray, and the overall cost of the case and trays would be cheaper. Would that be enough to tempt you?


I'm not a 40k player, so can't be sold on how many tanks something can fit in it. And terms like 'smarter' and 'cheaper' require some sort of qualification before they'd interest me.

And in any case, bigger cases just means I'd have to buy new bags. KR's system is good, but you do get locked into it.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/12/30 20:09:18


“Good people are quick to help others in need, without hesitation or requiring proof the need is genuine. The wicked will believe they are fighting for good, but when others are in need they’ll be reluctant to help, withholding compassion until they see proof of that need. And yet Evil is quick to condemn, vilify and attack. For Evil, proof isn’t needed to bring harm, only hatred and a belief in the cause.” 
   
Made in us
Scuttling Genestealer





Arvada, CO

Personally I also do the magnetized bases but for my army foam type cases are difficult because I play Tyranids. With all the wings, spikes, claws, etc. I find it very hard to position and fit a 1750-2000 pt army in a realistically sized bag, not to mention the hundreds of Termigaunts I also have to bring . I built (somewhat shabbily, but not horrible) a wooden box that is 12x18x18 inches with trays that slide in and out for easy transport and setup. The trays are 1/4 inch plywood with roof flashing glued to them then covered with duct tape (I had problems with too much magnetization and plastic models coming off the bases).

As for foam, friends of mine have Battlefoam but do agree that it is pretty expensive for foam.

40k Armies
Hive Fleet Matenga
Palanquin of Pestilence

Hordes Army:
Troolbloods 
   
Made in us
Servoarm Flailing Magos







I have two Battlefoam bags as well as three Sabol bags, and a couple of Battlefoam's cardboard 'stacker' boxes. I didn't mention the Sabol's earleir as they're older storage, and I use them much less often.

I like the custom-cut for some weird-shaped stuff. My favorite is for my Caprice Heavy Gear Mounts which could've been done in pluck foam, but works much better with the custom cut.

Working on someting you'll either love or hate. Hopefully to be revealed by November.
Play the games that make you happy. 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





 Riquende wrote:

I'm not a 40k player, so can't be sold on how many tanks something can fit in it. And terms like 'smarter' and 'cheaper' require some sort of qualification before they'd interest me.


To clarify, for example they have a half tray which can hold one drop pod and 3 rhinos (no room for predators). My one would be able to hold one drop pod, and 3 rhinos or predators with a kiss cut compartment for the turrets.

Another example would be their entire case can only store 2 land raiders, or 4 without the weapons attached, I believe this limits players who glue their weapons and would force them to buy another case, however with mine they'd only need one.

Two examples of of small changes for customization and saving players money.

 Riquende wrote:
And in any case, bigger cases just means I'd have to buy new bags. KR's system is good, but you do get locked into it.


I understand that, they have been around 10 years now? So players will have invested a lot into them. I'm here asking what players want and need so I can cater to them, however given the ratio of replies to views it seems most people don't care?



That's a really good idea, I'm guessing KR or BF didn't offer what you wanted?

I agree with your friends, the price BF charge is a lot and I know I can be a cheaper alternative.


 Balance wrote:


I like the custom-cut for some weird-shaped stuff. My favorite is for my Caprice Heavy Gear Mounts which could've been done in pluck foam, but works much better with the custom cut.


Custom cuts are a good option and one I am looking into, but I need to know what people want in terms of specific trays for their 40k, fantasy and warmachine armies before moving forward.

______

Thanks again for all the replies, very helpful.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/12/30 21:57:21


   
Made in us
Shrieking Traitor Sentinel Pilot




New Bedford, MA

Tyron wrote:
 Boggy Man wrote:
I make my own. Right now I'm gluing neodymium magnets to everything and attaching them metal trays which are going to be fit in self-made transports from old luggage....Maybe there'd be an angle there for you to work with.


I have always liked the idea of the magnets, though I have always found the idea so cheap and easy for people to do it would be pointless for a company to try and market it. Do you have any pictures of your endeavours?


A lot of messy WIP right now, but I can take a few of the army I'm magnetizing and maybe it can help.
(It can be a pain to attach sheet metal to carrying cases, but I think you're right since most of the work is done modeling bases it probably isn't easily monetizable.)

My friend made a carrying trunk out of foam with removable small square sections and sturdy board. It's a great design; the only reason I'm switching to magnets is condensing the space for more pieces. The customizable foam is the most useful, as you can adapt it for small figures, large vehicles, or whatever you need in between. One of the bigger problems with things like guncases and GW cases is carrying them around 3 or 4 at a time.
A nice square sturdy box designed to fit standardized foam trays is a nice solution;
Spoiler:



Something like this shouldn't be to difficult to produce, and If you can sell it cheaper than the fancy cases. (Maybe around 50 pounds or so for a giant case like the one pictured, or 20 for smaller tote.

I notice my posts seem to bring threads to a screeching halt. Considering the content of most threads on dakka, you're welcome. 
   
Made in gb
Joined the Military for Authentic Experience





On an Express Elevator to Hell!!

Tyron wrote:

 Pacific wrote:
Have a collection of the Feldherr bags. Very simple system, foam in them is fine, bags look non-descript enough that I'm not going to get people pointing or laughing at me, or mugging me, and perhaps most importantly you can get them dirt-cheap.


I did check them out but when I did some forum searches on various sites little came up for them. I can see the appeal with the bags, but when it comes to the trays you're very limited to what you can store in there. What do you use to store tanks?


Very simple - I don't play any games that have tanks at larger scale. Biggest miniatures I store in them are some of the Infinity TAGs and remotes, and it's easy enough to just cut out a few extra pieces.

TBH I'm not convinced that kind of baggage solution is ideal for bigger kits, because you're taking up space for an area that could store dozens of miniatures in some cases. A lot of people I've seen moving about the big GW walkers of late I've seen wrap them in bubblewrap and put them in a similarly proportioned box.

Epic 30K&40K! A new players guide, contributors welcome https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/751316.page
 
   
Made in gb
Sergeant




Darlington

Tyron wrote:
 PotentiallyLethal wrote:
I go for the KR system - good quality, flexible (usually get their pre-cut foam) and I like the fact I get the cardboard boxes and can store all my models on shelves and just pull out the boxes I need to put into the more durable aluminium box for transporting to play


 Riquende wrote:
I'm another KR user. The modularity of the system is the big seller to me. I'm not sure what another range could offer that would tempt me away.



Would you both mind sharing how many cases and which ones you have?

Say if I developed a similar system but the cardboard case was a little bigger so you could fit 4 land raiders flat with their sponsons on and can stack two infantry trays ontop (150mm total), smarter customization with what you can fit on a tray, and the overall cost of the case and trays would be cheaper. Would that be enough to tempt you?


I've got one of the quad aluminium cases and one of the dual aluminium cases, then I've got 6 standard cardboard cases and then enough foam for 4 dreadnoughts, 6 drop pods, 3 razorbacks, 3 land raiders, 4 rhinos, and hundreds of troops (including wolves, ogres, terminators)

problem with any other system now is the money I've invested in this system, sort of like how apple have hooked me into their system now

Potentially Lethal - My Gaming Blog
 
   
Made in gb
Multispectral Nisse




Luton, UK

Tyron wrote:
 Riquende wrote:

I'm not a 40k player, so can't be sold on how many tanks something can fit in it. And terms like 'smarter' and 'cheaper' require some sort of qualification before they'd interest me.


To clarify, for example they have a half tray which can hold one drop pod and 3 rhinos (no room for predators). My one would be able to hold one drop pod, and 3 rhinos or predators with a kiss cut compartment for the turrets.

Another example would be their entire case can only store 2 land raiders, or 4 without the weapons attached, I believe this limits players who glue their weapons and would force them to buy another case, however with mine they'd only need one.

Two examples of of small changes for customization and saving players money


Customising how? My last case was specced especially for my 2 Hell Dorado factions and 2 Urban War factions. You speak of customisation as if it relates entirely to 40K vehicle turrets.

Better prices how? Are your cases cheaper than KR's? Are your trays made of a comparable yet cheaper material? Or are you saying cheaper because I'd need fewer trays for my nonexistant tanks?

If your entire aim is to try to serve an already well-served market, then good luck and I can safely ignore your product. It's a good thing some companies have an appreciation that a growing number of gamers aren't interested in GW or PP and cater to their needs as well. Now, to the KR site! I need to spec out my Dropzone Commander, Dreadball and X wing cases (oh, and Epic).

“Good people are quick to help others in need, without hesitation or requiring proof the need is genuine. The wicked will believe they are fighting for good, but when others are in need they’ll be reluctant to help, withholding compassion until they see proof of that need. And yet Evil is quick to condemn, vilify and attack. For Evil, proof isn’t needed to bring harm, only hatred and a belief in the cause.” 
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Moustache-twirling Princeps





Gone-to-ground in the craters of Coventry

I use KR.

Of the 3 armies I have, I store them in:
Eldar: 1 Aluminium 2 case and 2 boxes (1 box is just Wave Serpents and Falcons, 6 total)
Space Marines: 1 Aluminium 2 case and 2 boxes (1 box has Land Raider and Terminators, with room for more)
Imperial Guard: 3 boxes (1 is Valkyrie)

I carry the boxes in a KR backpack, with a Kaiser 1 for extras.
All my 40k stuff fits in the backpack, but I cannot fit my hardback 40k rulebook, so had to get the DV version.

The main reason I went with KR was the custom trays for the big and odd-shaped stuff. Eldar tanks and assorted fliers are tough to get into anything that isn't designed for them. But, a Valkyrie takes up almost a box in its own.
Drop pods were the main decider. 4 pods is a box of their own, with a tray of troops on top.
Terminators fit in the '3' (3FH, etc) trays, so stack with vehicle trays well.

Something I'm looking for is a way to carry 40k fortifications. A Bastion is a bulky bit of kit, and needs protecting just like a tank.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/12/31 11:22:04


6000 pts - Harlies: 1000 pts - 4000 pts - 1000 pts - 1000 pts DS:70+S+G++MB+IPw40k86/f+D++A++/cWD64R+T(T)DM+
IG/AM force nearly-finished pieces: http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/images-38888-41159_Armies%20-%20Imperial%20Guard.html
"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing." - George Bernard Shaw (probably)
Clubs around Coventry, UK https://discord.gg/6Gk7Xyh5Bf 
   
Made in gb
Dispassionate Imperial Judge






HATE Club, East London

I'm confused - are you developing TRAYS, or a whole case system?

I use KR. I have about 15 Card Multicases and a couple of carry-bags to carry the armies around in. Armies vary from taking up one box (Daemons, some infantry-heavy IG), to taking up four boxes (massive Tau army with lots of FW). I find that their current custom-cut range extensive enough for all my needs. I use their custom foam for my Tau, various marines and Guard. For the rest I use their regular foam, or their pick and pluck for my conversions.

The only problem I've ever had was that a Necron Monolith is too tall for a Multicase!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/12/31 11:52:57


   
Made in us
Servoarm Flailing Magos







I get the feeling you need to demo your idea with a few of the biggest systems to show it's value... 40k, WHFB, FoW for bigger army games. Maybe Dystopian Wars or similar? Also maybe show it for some skirmish-sale games like Dreadball, Necromunda, etc. if there's a variant targeted towards that.

The main thing is: Why should I buy your trays over the ones I have/can get easily?

Working on someting you'll either love or hate. Hopefully to be revealed by November.
Play the games that make you happy. 
   
Made in us
Twisting Tzeentch Horror





Morgan Hill, CA

KR (however in full disclosure they are a sponsor of my show).

The modular system has proved incredibly useful for me. I typically tote around my KR Backpack 2, but also have a Kaiser 3 which is really nice when I bring larger forces.

I did originally purchase a KR Aluminum 4 case - which I use rarely now. But in retrospect I would have bought the Kaiser bags instead.

I also appreciate the fact that the foam is very soft. I have never had a model broken or scratched in this foam as a result of me using the system correctly. I did way overpack one of my Cardcases for a trip to the UK and forced it shut which results in one model coming off its base. Overall not too shabby!

But I do like the system very much. I also like the owner of KR very much. He is generous (providing much prize support for my listeners) as well as a really friendly gentleman.

In the long run there are several good systems out there - it really boils down to what works for YOU specifically.

   
Made in gb
Incorporating Wet-Blending





Wales: Where the Men are Men and the sheep are Scared.

Haven't got any but will likely go for kr when I do.t will depend on what I can get to fit my models. I am always wary of models with spears as I am unsure of how I will be able to transport them safely.



 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





@Boggy Man

Thanks for the WIP they look really good and that case looks huge!

The case I am thinking of working with would be a 400mm x 400mm x 150mm case which can house 5 land raiders in quarters with their side weapons on, this would allow me to make the system modular for more customization. Though I worry it would be too big and stick with a 400mm x 315mm x 150mm case, I could still do 4 land raiders but it would have to be 1 entire tray instead of 4 quarters.

Looking at KR prices they go for over £30 for the case and trays, I could do that for cheaper.

 Pacific wrote:
TBH I'm not convinced that kind of baggage solution is ideal for bigger kits, because you're taking up space for an area that could store dozens of miniatures in some cases. A lot of people I've seen moving about the big GW walkers of late I've seen wrap them in bubblewrap and put them in a similarly proportioned box.


The standard case I am unsure about (400mm x 400mm x 150mm or 400mm x 315mm x 150mm) would hold the big walkers for sure as for smaller games I would have to get a smaller box made to make it easier for people but without the fancy bags :( But I see where you're coming from and appreciate your feedback.

 Riquende wrote:
I've got one of the quad aluminium cases and one of the dual aluminium cases, then I've got 6 standard cardboard cases and then enough foam for 4 dreadnoughts, 6 drop pods, 3 razorbacks, 3 land raiders, 4 rhinos, and hundreds of troops (including wolves, ogres, terminators)

problem with any other system now is the money I've invested in this system, sort of like how apple have hooked me into their system now


That's a lot of cases and trays! And I can understand why you wouldn't want to switch but surely there must be something to convince you for future purchases?

 Riquende wrote:
Customising how? My last case was specced especially for my 2 Hell Dorado factions and 2 Urban War factions. You speak of customisation as if it relates entirely to 40K vehicle turrets.


For the purposes of this conversation yes, but feel free to give me an example or something they do which you'd want me to take a look at.


 Riquende wrote:
Better prices how? Are your cases cheaper than KR's? Are your trays made of a comparable yet cheaper material? Or are you saying cheaper because I'd need fewer trays for my nonexistant tanks?


I would sell them at a lower price.

The materials used for the cases and trays would be of good quality, there's only so many different grades of foam you can use and they're obvious to spot out if the seller is cheeping out on them or not.

You would need fewer trays yes as the system would be modular to allow better customization.

 Riquende wrote:
If your entire aim is to try to serve an already well-served market, then good luck and I can safely ignore your product.


Looking at the products offered by the two companies I would disagree there's quite a few glaring issues presented if you look at the products as a whole. Feel free to ignore them, I am not forcing you to do anything.

 Riquende wrote:
It's a good thing some companies have an appreciation that a growing number of gamers aren't interested in GW or PP and cater to their needs as well. Now, to the KR site! I need to spec out my Dropzone Commander, Dreadball and X wing cases (oh, and Epic).


I think you missed part in my OP where I stated "I know there's many systems out there and for now I will start with 40k, fantasy and warmachine, however I would like to venture into other systems in the future." Maybe it would be a good thing if you would re read my OP. I have to start somewhere and the 3 systems is a good place to begin. As for you going to the KR site maybe you should double check their Dropzone Commander, Dreadball because they're using the same trays for 40k, fantasy and warmachine with a few custom ones thrown in which can be done with pick and pluck.

@Skinnereal

The only thing I could suggest would be using a luggage case with foam or a cardboard box (if you drive) for your fortifications? You have a lot of investment in KR and this is why I'm here asking so I can get into the market.

 ArbitorIan wrote:
I'm confused - are you developing TRAYS, or a whole case system?


Both

 ArbitorIan wrote:
I use KR. I have about 15 Card Multicases and a couple of carry-bags to carry the armies around in. Armies vary from taking up one box (Daemons, some infantry-heavy IG), to taking up four boxes (massive Tau army with lots of FW). I find that their current custom-cut range extensive enough for all my needs. I use their custom foam for my Tau, various marines and Guard. For the rest I use their regular foam, or their pick and pluck for my conversions.

The only problem I've ever had was that a Necron Monolith is too tall for a Multicase!


See if you could fit that in few boxes would you make future purchases from me? What would make you want to switch?

As for the monolith maybe a luggage case with foam or a cardboard box (if you drive)?

 Balance wrote:
I get the feeling you need to demo your idea with a few of the biggest systems to show it's value... 40k, WHFB, FoW for bigger army games. Maybe Dystopian Wars or similar? Also maybe show it for some skirmish-sale games like Dreadball, Necromunda, etc. if there's a variant targeted towards that.

The main thing is: Why should I buy your trays over the ones I have/can get easily?


They're in the process, I am after feedback on what players want for their trays but I am getting few replies compared to views so it's making it harder for me. After the new year I will make another thread with the prototypes and hope more people will reply.

Again I would love to go after the other systems but I am a party of one at the moment and I only have so much free time to get this done.

As for your last question I can only do so much as one person and will no doubt miss thing which players want and need, that's why I'm here, to get player feedback.

I can say that the trays and case system will be cheaper, have more customization than what it presented by KR and BF at the moment.


 cvtuttle wrote:
KR (however in full disclosure they are a sponsor of my show).

The modular system has proved incredibly useful for me. I typically tote around my KR Backpack 2, but also have a Kaiser 3 which is really nice when I bring larger forces.

I did originally purchase a KR Aluminum 4 case - which I use rarely now. But in retrospect I would have bought the Kaiser bags instead.

I also appreciate the fact that the foam is very soft. I have never had a model broken or scratched in this foam as a result of me using the system correctly. I did way overpack one of my Cardcases for a trip to the UK and forced it shut which results in one model coming off its base. Overall not too shabby!

But I do like the system very much. I also like the owner of KR very much. He is generous (providing much prize support for my listeners) as well as a really friendly gentleman.

In the long run there are several good systems out there - it really boils down to what works for YOU specifically.


I appreciate you posting in this thread giving your standing with KR.

I agree with you, their customization if what sets them apart, however I find it to be very limiting having only half and full trays with nothing in between and restricting what players can put into their trays while BF only do whole trays. While with my system you would get quarters, halves, and wholes as a modular system.

I have read about KR's support to the community and I cannot fault them there.

@carlos13th hopefully I will be able to help with that in the near future.

_________

I'd like to thank all of you for your posts, they're very helpful and thought provoking! I do hope the others who view this thread would chime in because this is really for all of you, I don't want to make trays none of you want or need and would appreciate any and all questions/feedback.

Thank you

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/12/31 17:34:48


   
Made in gb
Lord of the Fleet






Kaiser Rushforth, I have 15 multicases and two kaiser bags (a 4 and a 3 - need to buy a second 4)

Why do you like [insert] company?
I like the modularity of the system. No need to buy another expensive bag just because I add to an army. Also, no need to buy a large bag and guess at suitable foam for a small addition. I can add a single multicase and worry about foam for the next batch of minis when I know what they are.
I like that replacement foam pieces aren't charged at a premium so changing how things are packed as the army grows isn't a major expense.
I like (a limited selection of) the custom trays. Certain of them (like the Valkyrie tray) offer functionality that can't be replicated with pick-pluck. However, their unusual pick-pluck trays cover most bases very well for me.

Which trays do you buy and why?
V-type pick pluck covers all the large things and the M and N trays cover everything else.

Which trays would you like to see which haven't been made yet?
Well designed infantry and pick-pluck trays cover 90%+ of cases. Many of the custom foams offered (by most manufacturers) are really not necessary, they just look nicer.

Are current prices too high? If so how much do you think is fair?
I think that the prices are fair.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Tyron wrote:
I am looking to get some trays produced to sell to gamers


What case sizes are you looking to produce trays for?

Have you considered purchasing the equipment to cut the trays yourself? You'll struggle to compete on price with companies that are producing their own trays if you're paying someone else to produce them for you. You may well find that the equipment is cheaper than you thought. (PM to discuss this further if you like, I used to produce a variety of laser-cut wargames accessories)

What is going to be your value-add? You've mentioned quarter trays and some more efficient custom trays. You've also mentioned customization without really defining it (and I'm not sure how you'll be able to offer true custom trays with someone else producing them for you).


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 cvtuttle wrote:

But I do like the system very much. I also like the owner of KR very much. He is generous (providing much prize support for my listeners) as well as a really friendly gentleman.

I'll second that - everyone that I've dealt with at KR (Daryl and Anita) has been terrific.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2013/12/31 18:26:08


 
   
Made in gb
Lord of the Fleet






Tyron wrote:

I can say that the trays and case system will be cheaper, have more customization than what it presented by KR and BF at the moment.

I'm very curious as to how you intend to beat their prices whilst still turning a profit. Have you truly considered all of the costs involved? Do you have any previous business experience?

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/12/31 18:21:54


 
   
Made in gb
Incorporating Wet-Blending





Wales: Where the Men are Men and the sheep are Scared.

Do you have any prototypes? Or an idea of the costs involved that will allow you to sell for cheaper?



 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





 Scott-S6 wrote:
Kaiser Rushforth, I have 15 multicases and two kaiser bags (a 4 and a 3 - need to buy a second 4)

Well designed infantry and pick-pluck trays cover 90%+ of cases. Many of the custom foams offered (by most manufacturers) are really not necessary, they just look nicer.


So you would prefer pick and pluck than custom cuts?


 Scott-S6 wrote:
What case sizes are you looking to produce trays for?


The case I am thinking of working with would be a 400mm x 400mm x 150mm or 400mm x 315mm x 150mm.

 Scott-S6 wrote:
Have you considered purchasing the equipment to cut the trays yourself? You'll struggle to compete on price with companies that are producing their own trays if you're paying someone else to produce them for you. You may well find that the equipment is cheaper than you thought. (PM to discuss this further if you like, I used to produce a variety of laser-cut wargames accessories)


I did look into it but the machines are £7k+ a piece! I will pm you about them cheers!

 Scott-S6 wrote:
What is going to be your value-add? You've mentioned quarter trays and some more efficient custom trays. You've also mentioned customization without really defining it (and I'm not sure how you'll be able to offer true custom trays with someone else producing them for you).


The value I would add would be well thought out trays and modular system for gamers. KR cases you can fit a total of 8 dreadnoughts or 4 landspeeders in a half tray why not 9 dreads and 6 speeders? Even with another half tray it creates problems for the gamers and costs them more. My modular system would fix these glaring issues.

Just because a third party would make them for me I would still have to give them the layouts gamers want, so wouldn't that make them custom?


 Scott-S6 wrote:
I'm very curious as to how you intend to beat their prices whilst still turning a profit. Have you truly considered all of the costs involved? Do you have any previous business experience?


 carlos13th wrote:
Do you have any prototypes? Or an idea of the costs involved that will allow you to sell for cheaper?


I do have some experience and have worked out all the numbers and it can be done at a lower price

As for prototypes I have some in progress but I will be showing them to local players in the mean time.

Cheers!



   
Made in us
Did Fulgrim Just Behead Ferrus?





Fort Worth, TX

The vast majority of my storage is Sabol's Army Transport line. Good price, simple construction. I did buy a Battlefoam case this past Black Friday sale, and I do like it, but their normal prices are simply far too high for me to justify a full switch, and Sabol meets most of my armies' needs (my Red Scorpions legion needed the significantly larger Battlefoam 1520). Comparing the construction of the two, the only real problem I have is that Sabol is a top loading transport, which is only a problem if the tray I want is at the bottom.

I've tried to look at KR, but every time I try to use their website, it doesn't work right for me. The first page or two will load, and then everything after that takes a minute or two to load up (this has been an ongoing problem for me, no matter which computer/browser I use over the years). And, maybe I'm just too old, but their foam system seems just too complicated for me. Both BF and Sabol keep it simple with the "this case hold X inches of foam" and I can pick and choose the specific trays I want to fill that.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/01/01 18:57:59


"Through the darkness of future past, the magician longs to see.
One chants out between two worlds: Fire, walk with me."
- Twin Peaks
"You listen to me. While I will admit to a certain cynicism, the fact is that I am a naysayer and hatchetman in the fight against violence. I pride myself in taking a punch and I'll gladly take another because I choose to live my life in the company of Gandhi and King. My concerns are global. I reject absolutely revenge, aggression, and retaliation. The foundation of such a method... is love. I love you Sheriff Truman." - Twin Peaks 
   
Made in us
Lord of the Fleet






Tyron wrote:
So you would prefer pick and pluck than custom cuts?

Yes, but not the usual pick-plug (grid of squares) - they're either very space inefficient due to the thickness of the dividing walls (if the block size is large) or the dividing walls are too weak for heavier models (if the block size is small). I like the KR pick-pluck because of the alternating blocks/walls which allows for shape customization with thin walls between items (where possible) to maximize space usage. KR's V-type is the most versatile pick-pluck on the market IMO. It does take more work to get the result but it gives you great space utilization whilst also allowing for lots of customization.

Tyron wrote:
 Scott-S6 wrote:
What is going to be your value-add? You've mentioned quarter trays and some more efficient custom trays. You've also mentioned customization without really defining it (and I'm not sure how you'll be able to offer true custom trays with someone else producing them for you).


The value I would add would be well thought out trays and modular system for gamers. KR cases you can fit a total of 8 dreadnoughts or 4 landspeeders in a half tray why not 9 dreads and 6 speeders? Even with another half tray it creates problems for the gamers and costs them more. My modular system would fix these glaring issues.

Just because a third party would make them for me I would still have to give them the layouts gamers want, so wouldn't that make them custom?

You're getting more in the trays by making the trays larger? Does that actually fix the problem or does it lead to custom trays being less desirable? (not many people want an 8 dread tray, will a 9 dread tray actually be an improvement?)

I was referring to BF's option for designing your own trays. Presumably the company cutting the trays for you is going to ask for minimum quantities making one-off trays impossible?

KR and BF both have a pretty compelling USP, to my mind. BF's is one-off custom foam (and their bags are REALLY nice). For players that build an army and then make minimal changes to it (maybe a special weapon swap here and there) being able to order a set of trays cut their own specification (even marked to show what goes where if they want) in a nice case is spot on. For players like myself that are as likely to expand an army as start a new one then KR's multicase + carry case system is perfect (I would never buy their aluminium cases - if I had something that really wasn't going to change then I'd go battlefoam). My marine army is currently in 7 multi-cases but I will almost never need all of them - typically I'll take 1-4 cases and drop them into a suitable Kaiser case.

To compete with that you'll need your own compelling feature. Lots of people offer foam trays and cases in various sizes and designs but KR and BF have become the favorites because they do something different.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/01/02 10:02:11


 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





 Tannhauser42 wrote:

I've tried to look at KR, but every time I try to use their website, it doesn't work right for me. The first page or two will load, and then everything after that takes a minute or two to load up (this has been an ongoing problem for me, no matter which computer/browser I use over the years). And, maybe I'm just too old, but their foam system seems just too complicated for me. Both BF and Sabol keep it simple with the "this case hold X inches of foam" and I can pick and choose the specific trays I want to fill that.


So a simple to navigate website with better descriptions of which models the trays are for, with pictures of different models in the trays to help illustrate that, with better naming of trays?

Would that bring your custom?

 Scott-S6 wrote:

KR's V-type is the most versatile pick-pluck on the market IMO. It does take more work to get the result but it gives you great space utilization whilst also allowing for lots of customization.


I will look into this as I am using squared pick and pluck at the moment.


 Scott-S6 wrote:
You're getting more in the trays by making the trays larger? Does that actually fix the problem or does it lead to custom trays being less desirable? (not many people want an 8 dread tray, will a 9 dread tray actually be an improvement?)


I would think people would prefer 9 dreads over 8. Remember the same trays can hold crisis suits, tyranid warriors etc and they tend to be in 3's.

 Scott-S6 wrote:
I was referring to BF's option for designing your own trays. Presumably the company cutting the trays for you is going to ask for minimum quantities making one-off trays impossible?


At this stage I wouldn't be able to do that. I am starting this off as a one man band out of my own pocket

 Scott-S6 wrote:
BF's is one-off custom foam (and their bags are REALLY nice). For players that build an army and then make minimal changes to it (maybe a special weapon swap here and there) being able to order a set of trays cut their own specification (even marked to show what goes where if they want) in a nice case is spot on.


I admit these are very good, but you pay through the nose for them. I won't be using a laser machine for my trays (and they cost a lot too). So doing those novelties would be impossible at the moment but if business picks up I would be more than happy to look into it.

 Scott-S6 wrote:
For players like myself that are as likely to expand an army as start a new one then KR's multicase + carry case system is perfect (I would never buy their aluminium cases - if I had something that really wasn't going to change then I'd go battlefoam). My marine army is currently in 7 multi-cases but I will almost never need all of them - typically I'll take 1-4 cases and drop them into a suitable Kaiser case.


This is really what I'm going for at this point in time with the trays and cases. The bags would come later once I sell enough units so there'd be a demand for the bags.

 Scott-S6 wrote:
To compete with that you'll need your own compelling feature. Lots of people offer foam trays and cases in various sizes and designs but KR and BF have become the favorites because they do something different.


I would think these two become favourites due to marketing and design. They offer something the others don't (as you mentioned). But what if I could combine the two? You get quarter trays, half trays and whole trays, allowing you better customization than KR and BF. The same quality as KR foam (in my opinion much better than BF) all for a lower price. And in todays world price is determining factor. And one major advantage I have is my case is bigger and I have a method for players want to buy my case not having to worry if KR and BF wont fit

______

I'm hoping most of these views aren't from competitors because I'd love to hear from gamers.

Cheers!

   
Made in gb
Incorporating Wet-Blending





Wales: Where the Men are Men and the sheep are Scared.

Offering it cheaper would be a good start. Bigger fits more in but may not be better. Remember that people have to lug these things around.

Customisable trays are always good as long as they dont bump the price up to high.. If you can get something to fit exactly what you want it saves having empty sections of trays taking up extra space.

People like KR a lot because they can use the card cases to generally store models safely at home but also just grab the box and chuck it in the backpack if they want. I do think the KR backpacks are overpriced personally. I would buy the cases but not the backpack.



 
   
 
Forum Index » Dakka Discussions
Go to: