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Not sure if a flame template and 4 one time use haywire missiles is worth 155 points, anyone elses opinions?

What is your rules-related question?

This is not a YMDC query, so I shall move it to the 40K Tactics forum.

It's the S8 Vector Strike that brings the unit from 'eh' to 'hmm...'

I think a single Crone is going to die before it can do much, but if you're running 2-3 Crones and 2 Flyrants there's going to be a lot of hard-hitting flying monsters for your enemy to deal with. Then there'll be even more monsters on the ground to get people worried.

That haywire is critical, though. Flamer + haywire + S8 vector strikes makes it very useful in the right builds. 2 Dakka flyrants and some 'fex love rushing forward with a venomthrope will cause headaches for most armies. Add 2 crones to the mix and you go from annoying to scary.

It's an fmc so can only fire two weapons a turn and the vector strike counts as one so to me it not worth the points. Sure haywire missiles are good hell haywire anything is good but with bs3 and only able to shoot two (if not vector striking) your not killing that enemy plane even if they both hit (storm talon excluded), so a single crone to me is useless and two or more bearly make the grade. A shame as it's a good idea.

Yup, I missed that. I was thinking of flyers firing 4, not fmc's just getting 2. 2 Crones will be needed to get enough shots off to do any real damage. From what I am seeing, 3 will be the new black.

My flyers now fear the crones vector strike, and dont forget it's ap3 for non vehicles too

I think the crone is going to be an irreplaceable part of my tactics. I'm thinking 2 dakka flyrants, 2 crones, a max sized unit of gargoyles, 2 max units of hgaunts, 2 max of tgants, 2 tervigons, and fire support behind them @ 2000 points. That way there is something different hitting them every turn. Hopefully making the opponent have enough target priority issues and not being able to kill everything before losing units to the assault phase. The FMC will be harassing turn 1 then the gargoyles will hopefully get turn 2 assaults, the hgaunts will be turn 2-3, and everything else will be in their face turn 3-4.

I have not seen the book. But if its FMC, cant it also Land? And go Smash, Vehicle hunting?

155 seems solid, whats its Attacks and Str/T ?

I dont have the codex either, but I know it can vector strike at s8 ap3, plus 4 haywire missiles. I really don't think it needs to risk landing to be decent at killing vehicles.

U kidding? U're really not happy to pay 155 pts for a FMC with 5 wounds and s8 vector strikes? U can spam the board with cheap and tough mcs. It's boring but everyone does it and it's effective.

 koooaei wrote:
U kidding? U're really not happy to pay 155 pts for a FMC with 5 wounds and s8 vector strikes? U can spam the board with cheap and tough mcs. It's boring but everyone does it and it's effective.

High STR Vector Strikes are good on models that can move 36" and not suffer any penalties when they do it.
Crones can only move 24" and if they VS they have to not fire either a missile or the Template.
Those 5 wounds only have a 4+ save protecting them btw - and a 5 Toughness.

It's not a bad unit really, just not awesome.

Well when your taking 6 of them and 4 flyrants in 2k points with double force org, i think they get a little nastier.

This is legal right? i havnt seen any nid lists doing it but double force org looks nasty with them.

 ninjafiredragon wrote:
Well when your taking 6 of them and 4 flyrants in 2k points with double force org, i think they get a little nastier.

This is legal right? i havnt seen any nid lists doing it but double force org looks nasty with them.

That's 1390 points for the lot. While it could be interesting, that's a lot of FMCs and only 600 points to spend on troops and elites.

 McNinja wrote:

 ninjafiredragon wrote:
Well when your taking 6 of them and 4 flyrants in 2k points with double force org, i think they get a little nastier.

This is legal right? i havnt seen any nid lists doing it but double force org looks nasty with them.

That's 1390 points for the lot. While it could be interesting, that's a lot of FMCs and only 600 points to spend on troops and elites.

Inserts Tervigon and 101 Termagants...

People keep saying a T5 4+ model is a bad buy, but with the mobility they have it isn't hard to keep them in cover and protected. Combined with psychic support and hard to hit they arnt bad. Adding the fact that IB doesn't hurt them terribly like most units in the army and they are a safe choice.

2 or 3 DS Malwoks in their DZ (or anywhere) would synergize well with 2-3 Crones.

 PipeAlley wrote:
2 or 3 DS Malwoks in their DZ (or anywhere) would synergize well with 2-3 Crones.

Beat me to it.

Tyranids have great threat saturation now. The whining people did during the rumor phase will soon become whining about playing against them.

Shocker people stopped being ridiculous and starting to see extremely cheap MCs flooding the board followed by 4 Pts fearless infantry as a good thing .....

If this has already been said I apologize, but the Crone/Harpy is the worst FMC ever concieved for one simple reason: it can always been seen from most of the board because it's on a fething flying stand, even when grounded, which is just ridiculously bad design. In regard to the OP: S8 vector strikes and a flamer + saturating the board with other targets might still make it somewhat useful.

I think the Crone is pretty good, its definitely a glass cannon and requires some careful use, but its really the only reliable form of anti-air we have available.

I see a lot of people saying "but quadguns will kill it!!!" well, heres how you counter that:

Lictors. Deepstrike them, without scatter, behind the quadgun, and use your flesh hooks to kill whoever is manning it. There, you just neutralized the quad gun (hopefully). It might have cost you a unit of lictors to do it, but they will die knowing that they bought your Harpy/Crone another turn and your opponent just wasted a bunch of firepower to kill 3 models instead of the horde of gaunts that will soon be jumping over the walls.

For more fun, take a Mawloc and use a lictor as a teleport homer. Thats one dead quad gun

Tsilber wrote:
I have not seen the book. But if its FMC, cant it also Land? And go Smash, Vehicle hunting?

155 seems solid, whats its Attacks and Str/T ?

No one has answered the first part of this. I'm curious about that, myself.

Because that to me seems like it'd make it on par with a Daemon Prince, just without psychic powers. It's actually cheaper, and barring upgrades serves a really similar role except with better vector striking and the potential to hurt other flyers from range.

SRSFACE wrote:

Tsilber wrote:
I have not seen the book. But if its FMC, cant it also Land? And go Smash, Vehicle hunting?

155 seems solid, whats its Attacks and Str/T ?

No one has answered the first part of this. I'm curious about that, myself.

Because that to me seems like it'd make it on par with a Daemon Prince, just without psychic powers. It's actually cheaper, and barring upgrades serves a really similar role except with better vector striking and the potential to hurt other flyers from range.

There is nothing forbidding you to land (technically glide, as it doesn't have legs) in the rules.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

chaos0xomega wrote:
I think the Crone is pretty good, its definitely a glass cannon and requires some careful use, but its really the only reliable form of anti-air we have available.

I see a lot of people saying "but quadguns will kill it!!!" well, heres how you counter that:

Lictors. Deepstrike them, without scatter, behind the quadgun, and use your flesh hooks to kill whoever is manning it. There, you just neutralized the quad gun (hopefully). It might have cost you a unit of lictors to do it, but they will die knowing that they bought your Harpy/Crone another turn and your opponent just wasted a bunch of firepower to kill 3 models instead of the horde of gaunts that will soon be jumping over the walls.

For more fun, take a Mawloc and use a lictor as a teleport homer. Thats one dead quad gun

Yeah, lictors sound like a lot of fun to use. Can't wait to fight them.

The problem though is that 2-6 shots at S6 won't be enough to kill the squad manning the Quad. Can you even target the gun itself?

TBH, I have no idea, I almost always ignore them or end up just gunning down the squad over time (and then later turning the quad gun on my opponent ). And you don't need to kill the entire squad, you only need to kill those in base contact (or a certain distance?? I forget) in order to neutralize it. The gun can't be fired if nobody is in base contact, and given the wound allocation rules, its not terribly difficult to place yourlictors in a manner where your opponent has no choice but to remove those models first. I think they can be targeted individually though, T7, 2W iirc? On the plus side, the Mawloc has a pretty good chance of doing it in

chaos0xomega wrote:
TBH, I have no idea, I almost always ignore them or end up just gunning down the squad over time (and then later turning the quad gun on my opponent ). And you don't need to kill the entire squad, you only need to kill those in base contact (or a certain distance?? I forget) in order to neutralize it. The gun can't be fired if nobody is in base contact, and given the wound allocation rules, its not terribly difficult to place yourlictors in a manner where your opponent has no choice but to remove those models first. I think they can be targeted individually though, T7, 2W iirc? On the plus side, the Mawloc has a pretty good chance of doing it in

Yes, I would rely more on the Mawloc on doing the deed.

Personally, if I were a nid player, my crazy tactic would be this -

- Infiltrate the Lictors near the gun, preferably out of line of sight for maximum effect.

- Having them run like a bunch of crazy fools near the gun and try to get the hard

- Pray they don't die

- Use the pheromones to get in that mawloc

- ???

- THE SLEEPER HAS AWAKENED!

- The whole time the crone will hide behind a brick wall.

EDIT:

AHA! Found the gun emplacement rules on pg105

The Quad Gun is taken as an option for a gun emplacement on the Aegis Defense line, and it does indeed have T7 2W. But it also has a 3+ save, so you better bring 3 lictors if you want to kill it.
You can shoot at it separately it seems; there's nothing that says you can't pick it out among the squad, and it is hit automatically in CC.

Crone is 150 points for a BS3 model that's only T5. It's wounds are kind of irrelevant because, lol! It can be grounded pretty damn easily. Haywire missiles are cool. Buuuut it's only BS3.

So you're basically paying 150 points for a strength 8 vector strike. Alright. Against any flyer worth its salt (vendetta, for example), it might get one vector strike off before getting blown out of the sky and forced to take a bunch of grounding tests. And then it's toast.

SRSFACE wrote:
Because that to me seems like it'd make it on par with a Daemon Prince

Without the invul. Which is one of the big redeeming factors for Demon Princes.

And yes, they can glide and assault.

Backlash wrote:
People keep saying a T5 4+ model is a bad buy, but with the mobility they have it isn't hard to keep them in cover and protected. Combined with psychic support and hard to hit they arnt bad. Adding the fact that IB doesn't hurt them terribly like most units in the army and they are a safe choice.

You mean that if it's out of synapse.. and it feeds and hits itself..then can perform no other action which means it's grounded because it can't move. IB will be hard on the crone if you lose synapse.

Crones really aren't worth it. They're very fragile units and will die to any decent BS model sitting on a Quad Gun, as well as Lootas, Assault Cannons etc

They sort of fall into the "glass cannon" category. I.e. they'd take out a flier then die, but they can't even do that, really. If they could fire all those missiles at once, they'd be fairly useful, but they can't. Crones will struggle to take down an enemy flier the turn they come in, if they actually make it in.

S8 vector strike is nice though, and I mean really nice, but the Crone doesn't have the survive-ability to utilise it effectively. If the Crone had a 3+ save and could fire those 4 missiles at once, I'd take one in a heartbeat. And probably two. But, as they are, they're just not worth it. Stick with your Flyrants.