Hive Crone

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**buddha**

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

The Quad Gun is taken as an option for a gun emplacement on the Aegis Defense line, and it does indeed have T7 2W. But it also has a 3+ save, so you better bring 3 lictors if you want to kill it.
You can shoot at it separately it seems; there's nothing that says you can't pick it out among the squad, and it is hit automatically in CC.

Sorry, just have to comment on that point. Look up shooting at artillery which the quad-gun counts as. No real way to pick it out except precision shots or barrage.

**CthuluIsSpy**

buddha wrote:

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

The Quad Gun is taken as an option for a gun emplacement on the Aegis Defense line, and it does indeed have T7 2W. But it also has a 3+ save, so you better bring 3 lictors if you want to kill it.
You can shoot at it separately it seems; there's nothing that says you can't pick it out among the squad, and it is hit automatically in CC.

Sorry, just have to comment on that point. Look up shooting at artillery which the quad-gun counts as. No real way to pick it out except precision shots or barrage.

Where does it say that it counts as artillery, and requires precision shots?

Under the gun emplacement rules on pg105, it just says "the gun emplacement can be shot at and attacked in close combat."
I see no reference to the artillery rules.

Under the Aegis defence line entry, it says "gun emplacement with quad-gun"
Ergo, the quad-gun must follow the gun emplacement rules as detailed on pg105.

It is true the gun emplacement has the same stat-line as an artillery gun, but that does not necessarily mean it follows the same rules for an artillery unit, as detailed on page 46
For one thing, the emplacement has no "crew," nor can it move, which is what artillery can do.

**B0B MaRlEy**

buddha wrote:
CthuluIsSpy wrote:

The Quad Gun is taken as an option for a gun emplacement on the Aegis Defense line, and it does indeed have T7 2W. But it also has a 3+ save, so you better bring 3 lictors if you want to kill it.
You can shoot at it separately it seems; there's nothing that says you can't pick it out among the squad, and it is hit automatically in CC.

Sorry, just have to comment on that point. Look up shooting at artillery which the quad-gun counts as. No real way to pick it out except precision shots or barrage.

Except it doesn't count as artillery. It's not part of the squad that shoots it. You may target it separately.

**rigeld2**

buddha wrote:
CthuluIsSpy wrote:

The Quad Gun is taken as an option for a gun emplacement on the Aegis Defense line, and it does indeed have T7 2W. But it also has a 3+ save, so you better bring 3 lictors if you want to kill it.
You can shoot at it separately it seems; there's nothing that says you can't pick it out among the squad, and it is hit automatically in CC.

Sorry, just have to comment on that point. Look up shooting at artillery which the quad-gun counts as. No real way to pick it out except precision shots or barrage.

No, the Quad Gun does not count as Artillery. At all.
The rules for Gun Emplacements are on page 105.

**buddha**

Whoops, I stand corrected.

**Andilus Greatsword**

Arthas367 wrote:
Shocker people stopped being ridiculous and starting to see extremely cheap MCs flooding the board followed by 4 Pts fearless infantry as a good thing .....

Yay, just what I wanted, a boring, restricted mono-build! For the record, I think Mawlocs are one of the few awesome units in the new book. The Heavy Slot's really crowded now tho so probably not too much spamming of the truly cheap stuff.

**Backlash**

Roci wrote:
Backlash wrote:
People keep saying a T5 4+ model is a bad buy, but with the mobility they have it isn't hard to keep them in cover and protected. Combined with psychic support and hard to hit they arnt bad. Adding the fact that IB doesn't hurt them terribly like most units in the army and they are a safe choice.

You mean that if it's out of synapse.. and it feeds and hits itself..then can perform no other action which means it's grounded because it can't move. IB will be hard on the crone if you lose synapse.

Literally none of this happens. You need to reread the Feed rules and rethink how they affect the crone. He is still allowed to move and vector strike freely and never hits himself... Not everything you read on the internet is true....

**brassangel**

Andilus Greatsword wrote:
Arthas367 wrote:
Shocker people stopped being ridiculous and starting to see extremely cheap MCs flooding the board followed by 4 Pts fearless infantry as a good thing .....

Yay, just what I wanted, a boring, restricted mono-build! For the record, I think Mawlocs are one of the few awesome units in the new book. The Heavy Slot's really crowded now tho so probably not too much spamming of the truly cheap stuff.

In 4th, we had a boring mono-build (5 Carnifex, 2 Tyrant, the rest doesn't matter).
In 5th, we had a boring mono-build (2 Flyrant, lots of Tervigons, the end).
In 6th, there may be some staples, like Flyrants, but the rest is completely wide open. "Lots of MC's" doesn't mean "mono-build," since we have so many ways to equip them all over the FO now. Mawlocs, Exocrines, and broods of Carnifexes are all cost-effective, and can be in different styles of equally effective lists. Venomthropes, Zoanthropes, and even creative uses of the Haruspex are all viable out of Elites. People are finding the Warrior far more effective than they originally imagined too (go figure, since there are way less amounts of S8 now than in 5th edition). The fact we can mix and match armaments across the army is huge too.

Deathleaper is even pretty freaking good.

The Tervigon changed, but now he's got a pretty specific purpose: poop out Gants to take objectives or provide cover, while casting buffs on things. He's not the Furious Charging, Poisoned provider with Iron Arm from before, but that doesn't make him bad.

We can murder people with threat saturation now, and there are a lot of ways to do it.

People complain about a mono-build (which this codex definitely DOESN'T seem to be), but then describe always facing the exact same Tau, Eldar, and Daemons lists. Doesn't that make those codices mono-build?

I prefer variety, thank you. It means Tyranids can be unpredictable in the hands of a capable general.

Backlash wrote:
Roci wrote:
Backlash wrote:
People keep saying a T5 4+ model is a bad buy, but with the mobility they have it isn't hard to keep them in cover and protected. Combined with psychic support and hard to hit they arnt bad. Adding the fact that IB doesn't hurt them terribly like most units in the army and they are a safe choice.

You mean that if it's out of synapse.. and it feeds and hits itself..then can perform no other action which means it's grounded because it can't move. IB will be hard on the crone if you lose synapse.

Literally none of this happens. You need to reread the Feed rules and rethink how they affect the crone. He is still allowed to move and vector strike freely and never hits himself... Not everything you read on the internet is true....

Thank you for calling that out. Too many people take the worst case scenario - in this case, one that could never actually happen - and use it to continue to sound like Eeyore about this codex.

**koooaei**

I'd pay 155 points right away to get an analogue of Crone for my orkses

**Iranna**

brassangel wrote:

Yay, just what I wanted, a boring, restricted mono-build! For the record, I think Mawlocs are one of the few awesome units in the new book. The Heavy Slot's really crowded now tho so probably not too much spamming of the truly cheap stuff.

In 4th, we had a boring mono-build (5 Carnifex, 2 Tyrant, the rest doesn't matter).
In 5th, we had a boring mono-build (2 Flyrant, lots of Tervigons, the end).
In 6th, there may be some staples, like Flyrants, but the rest is completely wide open. "Lots of MC's" doesn't mean "mono-build," since we have so many ways to equip them all over the FO now. Mawlocs, Exocrines, and broods of Carnifexes are all cost-effective, and can be in different styles of equally effective lists. Venomthropes, Zoanthropes, and even creative uses of the Haruspex are all viable out of Elites. People are finding the Warrior far more effective than they originally imagined too (go figure, since there are way less amounts of S8 now than in 5th edition). The fact we can mix and match armaments across the army is huge too.

Deathleaper is even pretty freaking good.

The Tervigon changed, but now he's got a pretty specific purpose: poop out Gants to take objectives or provide cover, while casting buffs on things. He's not the Furious Charging, Poisoned provider with Iron Arm from before, but that doesn't make him bad.

We can murder people with threat saturation now, and there are a lot of ways to do it.

People complain about a mono-build (which this codex definitely DOESN'T seem to be), but then describe always facing the exact same Tau, Eldar, and Daemons lists. Doesn't that make those codices mono-build?

I prefer variety, thank you. It means Tyranids can be unpredictable in the hands of a capable general.

If your definition of "mono-build" is Eldar or Tau then perhaps you need to take another look at those respective codices. They have gallons of decent lists pouring out of them, you're just falling into the tarpit of calling the "best" lists out there for those codices the "only" ones.

Iranna.

**Ookami**

Iranna wrote:
brassangel wrote:

Yay, just what I wanted, a boring, restricted mono-build! For the record, I think Mawlocs are one of the few awesome units in the new book. The Heavy Slot's really crowded now tho so probably not too much spamming of the truly cheap stuff.

In 4th, we had a boring mono-build (5 Carnifex, 2 Tyrant, the rest doesn't matter).
In 5th, we had a boring mono-build (2 Flyrant, lots of Tervigons, the end).
In 6th, there may be some staples, like Flyrants, but the rest is completely wide open. "Lots of MC's" doesn't mean "mono-build," since we have so many ways to equip them all over the FO now. Mawlocs, Exocrines, and broods of Carnifexes are all cost-effective, and can be in different styles of equally effective lists. Venomthropes, Zoanthropes, and even creative uses of the Haruspex are all viable out of Elites. People are finding the Warrior far more effective than they originally imagined too (go figure, since there are way less amounts of S8 now than in 5th edition). The fact we can mix and match armaments across the army is huge too.

Deathleaper is even pretty freaking good.

The Tervigon changed, but now he's got a pretty specific purpose: poop out Gants to take objectives or provide cover, while casting buffs on things. He's not the Furious Charging, Poisoned provider with Iron Arm from before, but that doesn't make him bad.

We can murder people with threat saturation now, and there are a lot of ways to do it.

People complain about a mono-build (which this codex definitely DOESN'T seem to be), but then describe always facing the exact same Tau, Eldar, and Daemons lists. Doesn't that make those codices mono-build?

I prefer variety, thank you. It means Tyranids can be unpredictable in the hands of a capable general.

If your definition of "mono-build" is Eldar or Tau then perhaps you need to take another look at those respective codices. They have gallons of decent lists pouring out of them, you're just falling into the tarpit of calling the "best" lists out there for those codices the "only" ones.

Iranna.

One point for you, Iranna, but I don't think this is the most important point of brassangel's opinion. I'd say it's rather the fact that Nids DO have nice and various options to make nice lists, even if they will all be "MC crowded" (after all, aren't big bugs also one of the signatures of the nids ?).

**Jd7**

I played with 3 crones today, despite the fact I only hit with 4 tenticlids out of 12 (yes with re-rolls) they still made their points back. However my major criticisms are 1. only bs 3 and when you want to take out ground tanks your chance of hitting drastically decreases making them really hard to like if you opponent isn't running flyers 2. One quad gun can easily kill them, the 4 shots rip them apart and than you just need to hope you don't fail your grounding test, tbh I did manage to get one of my HT's to kill the squad manning the gun but if it had been another list it would not have mattered. 3. that flamer really struggles against MEQ and the vector strike even can leave you with two 2 hits which while you will kill at least 1, its still a bit of a want to be helldrake in that respect. 4. I ran the harpy the day before and I really like the sonic screech ability, it can really help in many games and although its a bit unfair to compare them as they have different roles, but they occupy the same slot and if your clever enough 2 flyrants and even one one or two crones is all you need for most lists.

there are many many positives for it but its really not survivable regardless of what people say, you have to be careful

P.S. that the fourth point really was me complaining as my one wound flyrant was striking second against a black mace DP and I really needed that -5 Init, I really needed to be more careful with my flyrants because ground tests are easy to fail

**PipeAlley**

Failed grounding tests are the only way my Orks can beat lots of FMC lists. Once they're on the ground, T5 does not last long against Warbosses and Ork shooting.

**Zach**

Dont forget her missiles are twin linked against fliers and other FMC's.

I like her. She's cheap, and while people shoot at her they arent shooting at my Flyrant. And if that gets reversed, then she can do a lot of damage to the enemies deployment zone.

**Tsilber**

Not sure i saw anyone mention the fact that Crone also can evade/dive therefore get a 5+ cover save VS the Vendetta..

Also you are a FMC, If you go first you have 2 turns to wreak havoc. If you don't go first try to position is so if the Vendetta comes for you, you're either in Cover in a position to trap the Vendetta. This thing is great for its points, i like this and the harpy. Do your business for 1-2 turns. And then honestly as your entire army makes it way across the field this thing can land and go vehicle hunting/smashing. Land, fire 2 haywire missiles, cause a hull point, smash the rest.

THE FACT IS, until its played a lot all the "what ifs, and this sucks" comments are entertaining at the most.

The sky is always falling with these new codex's, as someone mentioned go back to the rumor section and listen to the hate and professors pick apart the book before its even out. Then go further back and see the same threads for Deamons, Tau, Eldar... about a week after those books came out the world was falling for all them to0, everyone said they would be terrible, horrible, and not worth it... how accurate were they.

Both Flyers for their points are great. And if your opponent does have a quad gun. Fire you Dakka-Fex's Gazillion twin linked str 6 shots at it first turn, 3 + save? Sure mate, make 20 saves.

I think it works and synergizes well with Lictor infiltrating and possibly Mawlock as mentioned.

**skycapt44**

You really never have to evade so long as you keep placing your FMC in a piece of area terrain you get a 5+ cover and never have to worry about snap shooting after you evade.

**Unyielding Hunger**

Roci wrote:
Backlash wrote:
People keep saying a T5 4+ model is a bad buy, but with the mobility they have it isn't hard to keep them in cover and protected. Combined with psychic support and hard to hit they arnt bad. Adding the fact that IB doesn't hurt them terribly like most units in the army and they are a safe choice.

You mean that if it's out of synapse.. and it feeds and hits itself..then can perform no other action which means it's grounded because it can't move. IB will be hard on the crone if you lose synapse.

Reread your codex bud, your spreading slander. Single models are COMPLETELY IMMUNE to the Feed table's 1-3 roll. Instead, they get the 4-5 roll.

**ductvader**

Unyielding Hunger wrote:
Roci wrote:
Backlash wrote:
People keep saying a T5 4+ model is a bad buy, but with the mobility they have it isn't hard to keep them in cover and protected. Combined with psychic support and hard to hit they arnt bad. Adding the fact that IB doesn't hurt them terribly like most units in the army and they are a safe choice.

You mean that if it's out of synapse.. and it feeds and hits itself..then can perform no other action which means it's grounded because it can't move. IB will be hard on the crone if you lose synapse.

Reread your codex bud, your spreading slander. Single models are COMPLETELY IMMUNE to the Feed table's 1-3 roll. Instead, they get the 4-5 roll.

Great for that LD 7 Haruspex.

**Tsilber**

Well i do now see a Drawback worth mentioning. In a mission that allows Fast attack to score, The Crone can't as its model will never be within 3" of an objective, (most tournies state an objective marker must always be down on the table and not up on levels of ruins or anything, so unless their is a big hill i guess.... first FMC that puts it on a flyers base, interesting.

**rigeld2**

And yet the base is what's counted for non-vehicles, not the model.

So no, a Crone can still score in The Scouring.

**Tsilber**

So ok, thanks for the polite correction.

Do you have a reference or page in the book, i couldn't find it, thats states you use the model's base when scoring/denying or actually anything? Im not saying it doesn't exist, but would like it pointed out. Thanks.

**rigeld2**

Tsilber wrote:
So ok, thanks for the polite correction.

Do you have a reference or page in the book, i couldn't find it, thats states you use the model's base when scoring/denying or actually anything? Im not saying it doesn't exist, but would like it pointed out. Thanks.

How do you measure distances for non-vehicle models?
How to you know if a model is contesting/scoring or not?

Answering these questions will give you the information you need. I'm not being cryptic to be a jerk - I'm trying to help you understand.

**Tsilber**

rigeld2 wrote:
Tsilber wrote:
So ok, thanks for the polite correction.

Do you have a reference or page in the book, i couldn't find it, thats states you use the model's base when scoring/denying or actually anything? Im not saying it doesn't exist, but would like it pointed out. Thanks.

How do you measure distances for non-vehicle models?
How to you know if a model is contesting/scoring or not?

Answering these questions will give you the information you need. I'm not being cryptic to be a jerk - I'm trying to help you understand.[/quote

Hmm, good points. I guess base is it is for Hive Crone, B-B-B- bonus then not flaw. Again i stand corrected, and its all good Rigeld2. Thank you.

**Roci**

Backlash wrote:
Roci wrote:
Backlash wrote:
People keep saying a T5 4+ model is a bad buy, but with the mobility they have it isn't hard to keep them in cover and protected. Combined with psychic support and hard to hit they arnt bad. Adding the fact that IB doesn't hurt them terribly like most units in the army and they are a safe choice.

You mean that if it's out of synapse.. and it feeds and hits itself..then can perform no other action which means it's grounded because it can't move. IB will be hard on the crone if you lose synapse.

Literally none of this happens. You need to reread the Feed rules and rethink how they affect the crone. He is still allowed to move and vector strike freely and never hits himself... Not everything you read on the internet is true....

I was definitely wrong with my post. I have no issues eating crow when I am wrong.

**skycapt44**

In this case you would be eating crone.

**Zach**

^ Crone joke in crone thread.

**Rommel44**

McNinja wrote:
ninjafiredragon wrote:
Well when your taking 6 of them and 4 flyrants in 2k points with double force org, i think they get a little nastier.

This is legal right? i havnt seen any nid lists doing it but double force org looks nasty with them.
That's 1390 points for the lot. While it could be interesting, that's a lot of FMCs and only 600 points to spend on troops and elites.

Your guys math is really off:

-x6 Crones is 930pts.
-x4 Flytyrants with TL Devours and Wings: 860pts.

I have no idea where you guys got 1390pts. for all of that!

Besides that I am thinking about running a Flyer heavy Tyranid list as well but with about 2-3 Fly Tyrants and 4-5 Crones with 3 Mawlocs for some real shinanigans!