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2014/02/25 07:19:52
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Battle Report p.49)
I understand and fully agree about the 2x TLDevs but that was more for WYSIWYG than anything else. Although, at a lower points level like 1650 they did pull there weight, and having the CC tyrant was a nice boon when something really needed killing, like that GUO. My previous list had a full brood of Fexes but I dropped one for the Mawloc, which was golden for me throughout the tournament.
My Tyranid Bastion is coming along well. Hopefully it will get an outing in the next couple of weeks.
As well as a home for the venomthrope I am looking to man a quadgun for some extra shooting. If I put the bastion fowards then I am really looking an infiltrator to man the battlements so the venomthrope can walk inside turn one. The choice would be a lictor and for the highlander event I am thinking of deathleaper for the Ld modifier to an enemy character. The twin linking of the quad gun then makes then BS3 less of an issue and gives deathleaper something to actually do rather than just stay alive!
The only other choice is to start off with the bastion in my own deployment zone so I can occupy it from the off, but will this put the venomthrope too far back to really assist the army? One to have a try around with at least.
I did look at a prime to man the gun and this would give backfield synapse, but only in a list where I can't take dual flyrants.
"We didn't underestimate them but they were a lot better than we thought."
Sir Bobby Robson
2014/02/25 13:56:50
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Battle Report p.49)
Just pay 30 pts for a Magos machine spirit and let the Bastion auto-fire at bs3. Use lictors for assaulting backfield infantry and tanks, as they're designed to do.
PrinceRaven wrote: I've recently been running Wings, Sword and Whip, Toxin Sacs, Devourers and Electroshock Grubs on my non-Warlord Tyrant. It's been doing well so far, I'm enjoying the versatility even though I occasionally miss the damage output 2 sets of Devourers provides. I find myself Vector Striking more frequently with this setup.
It's an MC Hunter arrangement and my typical set-up as well as I've been finding a lot more MCs in my opponents armies lately. Otherwise I'd have stuck with dual devourers. If it's not being used elsewhere you should try the Reaper of Obliterax instead of TS and LW+BS sometime.
It's a shame only swooping FMCs can vector strike. It would really be nice to soften up a unit before assaulting it.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/02/25 14:16:35
Been out of the game for awhile, trying to find time to get back into it.
2014/02/25 15:12:53
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Battle Report p.49)
tetrisphreak wrote: Just pay 30 pts for a Magos machine spirit and let the Bastion auto-fire at bs3. Use lictors for assaulting backfield infantry and tanks, as they're designed to do.
The reason not to do this is that an auto-firing gun must shoot at the closest target that it can hurt.
Is Magos an option for Bastions, anyways?
2014/02/25 15:38:49
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Battle Report p.49)
So I completely forgot that the Railhead Rumble was this weekend and I'm only sort of prepared.
2 dakkaflyrants, 6 dakkafexes, exocrine, tervigon, gants is my current plan. Basically, I might play all killpoint games all weekend so a reilient 6 kill point list seems like a good idea. Thoughts?
rigeld2 wrote: So I completely forgot that the Railhead Rumble was this weekend and I'm only sort of prepared.
2 dakkaflyrants, 6 dakkafexes, exocrine, tervigon, gants is my current plan. Basically, I might play all killpoint games all weekend so a reilient 6 kill point list seems like a good idea. Thoughts?
Interesting Rules packet - i can see you either playing Purge the Alien or Relic all 6 games. Either way having only 2 scoring units won't hurt your list at all -and having one of the scoring units being a T6 6W monstrous creature is nice too.
Been out of the game for awhile, trying to find time to get back into it.
2014/02/25 16:34:06
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Battle Report p.49)
My fellow Hive Mind-ers..........starting out with Tyranids and doing an escalation league to boot. How do you feel about this to start off? Kill Team rules in effect
200 pts.
Venomthrope
with Lashwhips and Toxic Miasma
Hormagaunt Brood
11x with Scything Talons
Tyranid Shrike Brood
3x with Toxin Sacs, Devourers, and Scything Talons
Gives me 3 Synapse creatures, with wings to help move back and forth where needed. Venomthrope grants shrouded to the Hormagaunts for survivability. The only question is, how many squads would you break the gaunts into?
tetrisphreak wrote: True - but you can shoot the quad gun WITH the venomthrope inside the bastion if you need to target it. They're BS3 if i remember correctly.
And yes, all the fortifications have access to the upgrades list in the Stronghold expansion book.
Nobody plays stronghold and I don't own the book, so bastion is only option.
Venomthrope can help shoot the heavy bolters (of which only 2 are ever likely to face) but if he's inside he can't shoot the gun emplacement quad-gun that comes as an extra. This is the one that kills stuff as it's S7 and twin-linked. I know I could just get a vanilla bastion but it seems such a shame to not make use of the upgrade. I do though worry that if I sit say a unit of gants on it they will need synapse babysitting and if I put it on the battlements and deploy forward I need a infiltrator to make sure it doesn't get stolen. I know that RAW the quadgun dosn't have to be placed on the bastion but I feel it's too cheesy for me to place it somewhere entirely different.
As to lictors assaulting backfield units - they need to survive a round of shooting first. For infantry in charge range they also get a round of overwatch against T4 and 5+ armour. Hmmm. Against vehicles you're putting a lot of faith in the ability of fleshhooks to be both in range and effective against rear armour. Only way they work is in target saturation lists where they come in from reserve or you run dataslate lists.
I don't really see the effectiveness of them myself but I like the -d3 to leadership for total anti-psyker on deathleaper but want to give him something useful to do - manning a quadgun you can only snapshot back at and with a 2+ cover save /toughness 7 it should stay around for a while. Best way to kill it will be killing the bastion ...
"We didn't underestimate them but they were a lot better than we thought."
Sir Bobby Robson
2014/02/25 17:05:09
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Battle Report p.49)
ductvader wrote: Just ran my strangle fexes against Templars....put 39 wounds on a unit of marines with 2 Devourers/ Stranglethorn cannons...money.
Cool! I recently came into two Carnifexes (B-day) and I was thinking Strangle Cannon Gun-Fex Glad to hear it works well.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
ruminator wrote: My Tyranid Bastion is coming along well. Hopefully it will get an outing in the next couple of weeks.
As well as a home for the venomthrope I am looking to man a quadgun for some extra shooting. If I put the bastion fowards then I am really looking an infiltrator to man the battlements so the venomthrope can walk inside turn one. The choice would be a lictor and for the highlander event I am thinking of deathleaper for the Ld modifier to an enemy character. The twin linking of the quad gun then makes then BS3 less of an issue and gives deathleaper something to actually do rather than just stay alive!
The only other choice is to start off with the bastion in my own deployment zone so I can occupy it from the off, but will this put the venomthrope too far back to really assist the army? One to have a try around with at least.
I did look at a prime to man the gun and this would give backfield synapse, but only in a list where I can't take dual flyrants.
I'd look at a small brood of Stealers, though they can't shoot...but they can infiltrate in and run out end of game to grab something. With a Lictor you also can deep strike with total accuracy with 6" (Hmm from the wall, that is a Big bubble...) so Mawloc becomes a "bastion body guard"
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/02/25 17:15:10
The will of the hive is always the same: HUNGER
2014/02/25 17:16:25
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Battle Report p.49)
ductvader wrote: Just ran my strangle fexes against Templars....put 39 wounds on a unit of marines with 2 Devourers/ Stranglethorn cannons...money.
Cool! I recently came into two Carnifexes (B-day) and I was thinking Strangle Cannon Gun-Fex Glad to hear it works well.
Yeah, it means that you don't have to bull rush the field with you're limited 18-24" range guns...I heavily recommend a tri-warrior barbed strangler baby sitter. (They usually target the same unit from a distance or up close.)
ductvader wrote: Just ran my strangle fexes against Templars....put 39 wounds on a unit of marines with 2 Devourers/ Stranglethorn cannons...money.
How compact was that unit?!?!
39 hits, assuming all 12 shots from the Devs hit means 27 hits from the blasts... meaning 13 each. Under a single large blast. Good god man.
It was indeed (Crusader Squad that just won combat in his turn against some sacrificial termagants)....not doubting that it wasn't average, but it was glorious.
Automatically Appended Next Post: My most recent and most powerful TAC list.
tetrisphreak wrote: True - but you can shoot the quad gun WITH the venomthrope inside the bastion if you need to target it. They're BS3 if i remember correctly.
And yes, all the fortifications have access to the upgrades list in the Stronghold expansion book.
Nobody plays stronghold and I don't own the book, so bastion is only option.
I don't have the Stronghold book either, but one of my opponents cites it as the reason he can shoot at an unoccupied bastion. Despite feeling like the Stronghold and other expansions (like dataslate, titans, forgeworld, Apocolypse) add to complications and subtract from balance, but I actually do hope that the rules for such things are incooperated into the 7th edition rules to solve some of these sort of arguments.
ruminator wrote: Venomthrope can help shoot the heavy bolters (of which only 2 are ever likely to face) but if he's inside he can't shoot the gun emplacement quad-gun that comes as an extra. This is the one that kills stuff as it's S7 and twin-linked. I know I could just get a vanilla bastion but it seems such a shame to not make use of the upgrade. I do though worry that if I sit say a unit of gants on it they will need synapse babysitting and if I put it on the battlements and deploy forward I need a infiltrator to make sure it doesn't get stolen. I know that RAW the quadgun dosn't have to be placed on the bastion but I feel it's too cheesy for me to place it somewhere entirely different.
Most times I run the bastion with Comms relay. I keep Venom inside + 3 warriors with 2 Devourers and 1 Barbed strangler on top. I treat it like an immobile tank with a 36" range. My warriors have a 2+ cover save, so unless I'm playing Tau it works pretty good.
I recall a faq saying that the quadgun could only fire on auto if it was placed on top of the bastion, but it could be placed elsewhere and fired manually. I'm not finding that FAQ right now, so I might have dreamed it, or just read it in the rules forum.
RAW Venom could indeed fire a Heavy bolter of the Bastion (not sure he could fire more than 1). But I've been playing based on the idea that the now obsolete tyranid FAQ that forbid Tyranids from firing fortification weapons will probably come back at some point. RAW tyranids can fire things like Quad guns. My interpretation of RAI is that they can't, but I understand that this might be an unpopular interpretation.
2014/02/25 22:11:37
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Battle Report p.49)
foto69man wrote: My fellow Hive Mind-ers..........starting out with Tyranids and doing an escalation league to boot. How do you feel about this to start off? Kill Team rules in effect
200 pts.
Venomthrope
with Lashwhips and Toxic Miasma
Hormagaunt Brood
11x with Scything Talons
Tyranid Shrike Brood
3x with Toxin Sacs, Devourers, and Scything Talons
Gives me 3 Synapse creatures, with wings to help move back and forth where needed. Venomthrope grants shrouded to the Hormagaunts for survivability. The only question is, how many squads would you break the gaunts into?
No need to list stock equipment. As it is Kill Team, you have no choice, all units run as squads of one.
2014/02/26 11:13:11
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Battle Report p.49)
Well, that's awkward. Just got through the first round of the tournament/league through a forfeit. Opponent didn't have sufficient points so pulled out. Was eldar too. I think the 1500 point 'nidzilla list just dodged its first bullet!
Now only a CSM player.
2014/02/26 23:34:36
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Battle Report p.49)
Work schedule changed so it looks like I can go back to the monthly tournament in Ashburn with my Nids on the 16th.
Im working on my list but it looks like this right now:
Warlord Flyrant : AG, Electroshock, HC, Scything Talons, Reaper of Obliterax (Thats right, a full CC tyrant. More attacks, and I cant tell you how often this Tyrant vector strikes and the grubs would be able to hit several vehicles, if not just the one he vectored. And he is S8 on the charge)
Flyrant w/LW/BS, toxin sacs, HVC, HC 2 Lictor Brood (Not sure if its best to run them together or separate for bring the Mawlocs home to good targets without giving up firstblood/killpoints too easy)
17 Termagant
2x Outflanking 4 Warrior Brood, 3 w/devs and rending claws, 1 with scything and LW/BS Harpy
Crone
Crone
Mawloc
Mawloc
2 Biovore Brood
A rush and threat overload list. Im getting the two lictors next week and will play test a few times.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/02/26 23:34:54
An excellent battle between Geoff's (InControl's) Tyranids and Spam Adam's Triptide Tau. Spam Adam is a regular opponent of mine and his Triptide Tau is a tough, tough army to play against.
jy2 wrote: An excellent battle between Geoff's (InControl's) Tyranids and Spam Adam's Triptide Tau. Spam Adam is a regular opponent of mine and his Triptide Tau is a tough, tough army to play against.
Enjoy!
That list was very similar to the one I've been running. Exocrines are just amazing and a single Tervigon never lets you down!
2014/02/27 07:26:45
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Battle Report p.49)
I've found Carnifices and an Exocrine to be more effective than dual Exocrines, but I do agree that a single Tervigon is well worth running.
Ailaros wrote: You know what really bugs me? When my opponent, before they show up at the FLGS smears themselves in peanut butter and then makes blood sacrifices to Ashterai by slitting the throat of three male chickens and then smears the spatter pattern into the peanut butter to engrave sacred symbols into their chest and upper arms.
I have a peanut allergy. It's really inconsiderate.
"Long ago in a distant land, I, M'kar, the shape-shifting Master of Chaos, unleashed an unspeakable evil! But a foolish Grey Knight warrior wielding a magic sword stepped forth to oppose me. Before the final blow was struck, I tore open a portal in space and flung him into the Warp, where my evil is law! Now the fool seeks to return to real-space, and undo the evil that is Chaos!"
2014/02/27 09:14:41
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Battle Report p.49)
Here's the list I wrote and tested in my first game just when the codex dropped. Worked fine against a Chaos/Daemon flying circus
Dakka Flyrant
Dakka Flyrant - Electroshock Grubs
2 Hive Guard
2 Venomthrope
Zoanthrope
10 Gants
10 Gants
10 Gants
10 Gants
10 Gants
Hive Crone
Hive Crone
20 Gargoyles
Exocrine
Exocrine
2 Dakkafex
1990 points
Brute-forcing the way to victory. Just hide or reserve the Gants, trying to keep my opponent occupied with the rest of the army. Zoan cast Dominion.
The first wave of FMC's has the job to disrupt and do early damage, grab First Blood if possible and hurt backfield units. They also draw attention from the game-winning second wave (everything else) that runs up to the center were they will dominate with Venom cover and hopefully terrain. Gargoyles provide screening and absorb enemy CC units.
Weak points are obviously scoring units and backfield synapse. But I've got plenty of LOS blocking monsters and Gargoyles to make it harder to take out the Zoanthrope. It's not how my tournament list looks like today, but the top-heavy style has it's appeal. To hell with objectives, go for the tabling!
2014/02/27 16:59:17
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Battle Report p.49)
Right sorry I've been so late putting up these write ups, just been hammered this last week. I'll keep these both brief as I can only remember the short of it.
Game2 vs Space Marine/Tau/Inquisitor
Rough guess at his list
Techmarine
3 Marine combat squads in Las/plas Razorbacks
Relic Whirlwind
2 5 Man scout units
3 Devastator Centurions
Thunderfire Cannon
Cadrefireblade
Fire Warriors
Skyray
Inquisitor
Aegis/Quadgun.
Vanguard
Big Guns Never Tire
Night Fight
I know this player quite well as he plays at one of my local clubs, although I've never met him before, I know he has a very good track record, a slighly one track list, but he is very good with it.
My opponent (Paul) had first turn and castled his army behind a ruin (bumped to 3+) and his Aegis, on his two objectives. I placed mine as far up field as I could, one in the middle of the board, one behind some LOS ruins, and one in my backfield which my Biovores camped on. I deployed to one flank so I would remain outside of double tap of his FW and could flank around the LOS and get behind his Aegis, he infiltrated his Centurions so they could hammer my C-fexes with Grav fire and possibly make it on to my out of sight objective turn 1.
I seized. Boom
Turn 1 Gargoyles jump up and tiedown his Centurions (for the rest of the game)
Everything else walks up, I fly both my Tyrants off. Biovores bring down the thunder, wiping out half a combat squad and all 4/5 scouts.
He returns fire taking a couple of wounds of a Carnifex, but doing no other real damage.
Turn 2 Both Tyrants fly on as far up the board as I can, my Termagants outflank, unfortantly on the wrong side, if had got on his side, I would have been able to put 50 Str 4 shots into his Fire Warriors! They just secure the objective. Flyrants take out a couple of transports with shooting. Mawloc comes on but scatters in to the open.
He charges a combat squad into my Gargoyles to try swing the fight in his favour, the get tied down.
Turn 3 This turn I really do try my hardest to finish the game, thinking heard the judge call 5 minutes remaining, I play an end game, My Mawloc comes off the objective he was contesting, and goes out of cover to charge and kill the Whirlwind, one tyrant takes out the warlords transport in shooting, and the fluff bunny in me takes over, and I land my Warlord to take out his warlord (that was in the recently destroyed Razorback) for a grand finale. My carnifexes charge the Centurions, with one Gargoyle remaining in combat. The Warlord charges the techmarine. Carnifexes take out a couple of Centurions, and get tied down. And I got a bit screwed over with my Warlord, I didn't realise that servo arms were Psuedo Powerfists in combat, and I also ask my opponent if they strike at initiative or Init1, he says at normal initiative, so I let him going first, fatigue setting in, I don't question it. he kills my Warlord.
It was also at this point that I remember, I went first, so my opponent still gets a turn, and the judge called 25 minutes, not 5!
Thankfully all my best efforts to lose the game I manage to hold to it! In the end winning 10-4.
Game 3
IG/Space Marines/Inquisitor
very Rough list.
CCS Flamers in a Chimera
A Big blob with lots of heavy weapons.
Basilisk (or whichever the tank is that drops D3 Large Blasts)
Librarian
Sternguard, Loads of monsterous creature killing weapons.
Droppod,
3 Bikes
5 Scouts
I get first turn.
Hammer and Anvil
Kill points
I'm not really sure who this a worse match up for, me having to foot slog an entire board towards an IG gunline, or him with his 20 something kill points to give away!
There was no real tactical nuences in this game, it was just a good old fashioned slugfest and probably one of the most fun games I have ever played against a proper sound opponent. Made all the better, by the sounds of the two Eldar players arguing constantly on the top table
Some highlights, his sternguard caused 11 wounds on my Tervigon, who had a 3+ cover save, and catalyst. I failed 7 We thought this was going to be First Blood but then remembered one of his heavy weapons teams needed to take a morale test from my biovores which they failed and ran off the board.
His Librarian found a sweet spot which was 12" away from my Biovores and 12.1+" from any Shadows, he Psychic shrieked the unit off the board, one of my hive tyrants got revenge Psychic Screaming him off the board!
Venomthrope was easily MvP of the game, and probably the tournament. It draws so much fire power, and if you are clever with it will stay alive for a long time barring crappy dice rolls. And they aren't shooting at your synapse!
In the end I won this one by a considerable margain just because of the difference in kill points in our lists, I only had 2 Hive tyrants left on the board in the end!
Our first match at 1500, after a string of victories at 1750.
THis was against a Tau list, 5 pathfinders, 4 Marker Drones, 2 Riptides - one of them with some heavyweight FW cannon, both with tough shields - 3 crisis suits, 3 squads FW, one in a devilfish.
I'd tailored somewhat for Tau by bringing 3 rather than 2 biovores, he tailored by adding that forgeworld gun to splatter nids.
It was tough, lots of time taking out the markerlights methodically, and my FMC got ground down by the end. Boivores were terrific, spawning lots of spores and really bugging him, but in the end that FW cannon took them all down with one blast. Mawloc caused him loads of hassle, took out 7 fire warriors and several pathfinders, then went straight back into reserves having totally cleared his objective
.
Lost Warlord flyrant turn 2, Crone turn 3, another Crone turn 4, last flyrant with really unlucky rolls turn 5. All the gargoyles engaged one Riptide turn 4, failed to do any damage, fell out of synapse, mostly died then ran - their only real engagement. Including a few devilgants hugely increases damage output.
Despite heavy losses, controlled my objective, cleared everything off his, with the Mawloc just off, and challenged the third. We tied the game.
I emjoyed playing this new list more than my old (pod-heavy list), it's more diverse. Altho I miss my carnifexes.
Still thinking, and waiting for impact of dataslates, but seriously considering dropping the gargoyles - they've had a good run - and one Biovore for a second Mawloc. I think my opponent placed highly in the big store tournament... so not too bad all in. This was my first Tau only battle, I've beaten tau/SW alliance with the old codex. He made errors - didn't get the warriors out of the devilfish in time, altho I'd have probably splattered them, and I totally forgot to vector strike the Crones. If I'd done so, I think the game would have been mine.
Moral of the story: it can be a slog, but Tau aren't definitely a death-match, and the Mawloc brings a lot of the fear-factor from the old Doom, maybe more so, as you can rinse and repeat.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2014/02/27 18:13:33
THis was against a Tau list, 5 pathfinders, 4 Marker Drones, 2 Riptides - one of them with some heavyweight FW cannon, both with tough shields - 3 crisis suits, 3 squads FW, one in a devilfish.
I'd tailored somewhat for Tau by bringing 3 rather than 2 biovores, he tailored by adding that forgeworld gun to splatter nids.
It was tough, lots of time taking out the markerlights methodically, and my FMC got ground down by the end. Boivores were terrific, spawning lots of spores and really bugging him, but in the end that FW cannon took them all down with one blast. Mawloc caused him loads of hassle, took out 7 fire warriors and several pathfinders, then went straight back into reserves having totally cleared his objective
.
Lost Warlord flyrant turn 2, Crone turn 3, another Crone turn 4, last flyrant with really unlucky rolls turn 5. All the gargoyles engaged one Riptide turn 4, failed to do any damage, fell out of synapse, mostly died then ran - their only real engagement. Including a few devilgants hugely increases damage output.
Despite heavy losses, controlled my objective, cleared everything off his, with the Mawloc just off, and challenged the third. We tied the game.
I emjoyed playing this new list more than my old (pod-heavy list), it's more diverse. Altho I miss my carnifexes.
Still thinking, and waiting for impact of dataslates, but seriously considering dropping the gargoyles - they've had a good run - and one Biovore for a second Mawloc. I think my opponent placed highly in the big store tournament... so not too bad all in. This was my first Tau only battle, I've beaten tau/SW alliance with the old codex. He made errors - didn't get the warriors out of the devilfish in time, altho I'd have probably splattered them, and I totally forgot to vector strike the Crones. If I'd done so, I think the game would have been mine.
Moral of the story: it can be a slog, but Tau aren't definitely a death-match, and the Mawloc brings a lot of the fear-factor from the old Doom, maybe more so, as you can rinse and repeat.
If you can find the points I strongly endorse a second Mawloc!
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/02/27 19:27:49
The will of the hive is always the same: HUNGER
2014/02/28 02:53:10
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Battle Report p.49)
tetrisphreak wrote:
It's a shame only swooping FMCs can vector strike. It would really be nice to soften up a unit before assaulting it.
Thorax weapon with ESG instead. Not quite as good as a VS all around but better vs high armor vehicles and crowds.
rigeld2 wrote:So I completely forgot that the Railhead Rumble was this weekend and I'm only sort of prepared.
2 dakkaflyrants, 6 dakkafexes, exocrine, tervigon, gants is my current plan. Basically, I might play all killpoint games all weekend so a reilient 6 kill point list seems like a good idea. Thoughts?
Adding the charge distance to the Keg to total first turn movement sounds like a real boon to a lot of nid units. Might even be worth TSing you gants so they can deal 30 wounds to it on turn one (60 autohits at 4+ poison if they all get to strike). That should secure your winning status on the bonus points side (in addition to any wounds from shooting)
-It is not the strongest of the Tyranids that survive but the ones most adaptive to change.
2014/02/28 15:40:24
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Battle Report p.49)
jy2 wrote: An excellent battle between Geoff's (InControl's) Tyranids and Spam Adam's Triptide Tau. Spam Adam is a regular opponent of mine and his Triptide Tau is a tough, tough army to play against.
It looked like Spam Adam was far too wedded to stationary Tau gunline, and didn't know what he was facing. He focused most of his fire on Gaunts? If a Tau opponent is going to play that passively, then slow Tyranids have a chance. I'm sure Spam Adam has learned his lesson, and could win in the future.
We also can't count on Riptides failing 4 Nova charges or Tervigons spawning that successfully. Still good to see a little success.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I'm trying to get my models painted before I buy more, so I still haven't added any fast attack to my collection, and I've been brainstorming about how to make the models I have more effective, especially against Armor and Tau (2 things that Crones would help with a lot).
The most effective list I've found is a 2 Flyrant, 2 ZThrope, 3 Mawloc, 2 Outflanking devilgaunt, with some Genesteelers for added turn 2 pressure. The more I've thought about this the more it seems like a Trygon Prime might actually be viable in my list (taking out 1 Mawloc + Genesteelers). He is overpriced, but better than a Mawloc or Genesteelers at killing Mech, and provides synapse which generally dies on me in turns 5 and 6. So I've come up with this list, and was looking for your impressions as to the point efficiency of the Trygon Prime.
Also a rules question. If my Trygon Prime comes in turn 2, and one of my TGaunt squads come in turn 3, could the TGaunt use the tunnel even though I've declared them as "Outflanking"? What If my flyrant flies off the board into ongoing reserves, could he come back on through the Trygon Tunnel? Could he do so while Swooping?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/02/28 16:45:43
2014/02/28 20:05:52
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Battle Report p.49)
jy2 wrote: An excellent battle between Geoff's (InControl's) Tyranids and Spam Adam's Triptide Tau. Spam Adam is a regular opponent of mine and his Triptide Tau is a tough, tough army to play against.
It looked like Spam Adam was far too wedded to stationary Tau gunline, and didn't know what he was facing. He focused most of his fire on Gaunts? If a Tau opponent is going to play that passively, then slow Tyranids have a chance. I'm sure Spam Adam has learned his lesson, and could win in the future.
We also can't count on Riptides failing 4 Nova charges or Tervigons spawning that successfully. Still good to see a little success.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I'm trying to get my models painted before I buy more, so I still haven't added any fast attack to my collection, and I've been brainstorming about how to make the models I have more effective, especially against Armor and Tau (2 things that Crones would help with a lot).
The most effective list I've found is a 2 Flyrant, 2 ZThrope, 3 Mawloc, 2 Outflanking devilgaunt, with some Genesteelers for added turn 2 pressure. The more I've thought about this the more it seems like a Trygon Prime might actually be viable in my list (taking out 1 Mawloc + Genesteelers). He is overpriced, but better than a Mawloc or Genesteelers at killing Mech, and provides synapse which generally dies on me in turns 5 and 6. So I've come up with this list, and was looking for your impressions as to the point efficiency of the Trygon Prime.
Also a rules question. If my Trygon Prime comes in turn 2, and one of my TGaunt squads come in turn 3, could the TGaunt use the tunnel even though I've declared them as "Outflanking"? What If my flyrant flies off the board into ongoing reserves, could he come back on through the Trygon Tunnel? Could he do so while Swooping?
No, they can't use the trogon holes. That is only for normal reserves coming in and not any specialized reserves such as outflanking or deep striking.
With regards to the game, I think Spam Adam was somewhat intimidated by the 12 S7 AP2 exocrine shots. That's probably the reason why he played more defensively. Otherwise, Adam is actually a pretty good Taudar player. I haven't been able to beat his army yet with my new Tyranids.
Then again, my early nids weren't really optimized and he did steal the initiative from me in 1 game.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/02/28 20:08:50
jy2 wrote: An excellent battle between Geoff's (InControl's) Tyranids and Spam Adam's Triptide Tau. Spam Adam is a regular opponent of mine and his Triptide Tau is a tough, tough army to play against.
It looked like Spam Adam was far too wedded to stationary Tau gunline, and didn't know what he was facing. He focused most of his fire on Gaunts? If a Tau opponent is going to play that passively, then slow Tyranids have a chance. I'm sure Spam Adam has learned his lesson, and could win in the future.
We also can't count on Riptides failing 4 Nova charges or Tervigons spawning that successfully. Still good to see a little success.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I'm trying to get my models painted before I buy more, so I still haven't added any fast attack to my collection, and I've been brainstorming about how to make the models I have more effective, especially against Armor and Tau (2 things that Crones would help with a lot).
The most effective list I've found is a 2 Flyrant, 2 ZThrope, 3 Mawloc, 2 Outflanking devilgaunt, with some Genesteelers for added turn 2 pressure. The more I've thought about this the more it seems like a Trygon Prime might actually be viable in my list (taking out 1 Mawloc + Genesteelers). He is overpriced, but better than a Mawloc or Genesteelers at killing Mech, and provides synapse which generally dies on me in turns 5 and 6. So I've come up with this list, and was looking for your impressions as to the point efficiency of the Trygon Prime.
Also a rules question. If my Trygon Prime comes in turn 2, and one of my TGaunt squads come in turn 3, could the TGaunt use the tunnel even though I've declared them as "Outflanking"? What If my flyrant flies off the board into ongoing reserves, could he come back on through the Trygon Tunnel? Could he do so while Swooping?
Only "infantry" can Tunnel Assault.
I'd have to read up about if an Outflanker can Tunnel assault. It seems like it depends, on "where" Outflankers are ("in Reserves" maybe yes, "set apart" sounds like NO!) I am of the opinion that you can Tunnel Assault a Zoey Brood ("Jump infantry") But, how will you get them into Reserve? Not something you can plan on, for the most part...
If Outflankers could be pushed out a Tunnel, Genestealers start looking even better...
The will of the hive is always the same: HUNGER
2014/02/28 22:22:10
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Battle Report p.49)
tag8833 wrote: Also a rules question. If my Trygon Prime comes in turn 2, and one of my TGaunt squads come in turn 3, could the TGaunt use the tunnel even though I've declared them as "Outflanking"? What If my flyrant flies off the board into ongoing reserves, could he come back on through the Trygon Tunnel? Could he do so while Swooping?
Only "infantry" can Tunnel Assault.
Brain fart. I forgot that MC's weren't infantry for a second there.
pinecone77 wrote: I'd have to read up about if an Outflanker can Tunnel assault. It seems like it depends, on "where" Outflankers are ("in Reserves" maybe yes, "set apart" sounds like NO!) I am of the opinion that you can Tunnel Assault a Zoey Brood ("Jump infantry") But, how will you get them into Reserve? Not something you can plan on, for the most part...
If Outflankers could be pushed out a Tunnel, Genestealers start looking even better...
Zoanthropes are "Infantry" not "Jump Infantry", but I'm reading the rule as clearly giving permission for outflankers or Deep Strikers to use the trygon tunnel.
The Outflank rule on BRB page 40 says:
When an Outflanking unit arrives from Reserves
The Deep Striking rule on BRB page 36 says:
In order for a unit to be able to Deep Strike, all models in the unit must have the Deep strike special rule and the unit must start the game in reserve.
The Subterranean Assault rule on Codex: Tyranids page says:
Any friendly Tyranid Infantry unit that arrives from reserve in subsequent turns may emerge from the Trygon’s tunnel instead of arriving from reserve as normal.
Reserves is a place not a deployment method. Outflank, Deep Strike, and Subterranean Assault are all deployment methods. Codex special rules always override BRB special rules. The only argument for not being able to substitute Subterranean Assault for Outflank or Deep Strike would seem to be that Outflank and Deep Strike are an abnormal way to arrive from reserve.
However, the old (now obsolete) FAQ says:
Q: Can infantry units without wings that were going to arrive from reserves using the deep strike or outflank rules, instead choose to arrive via a Trygon’s Subterranean Assault ability. (p50)
A: No.
So I'm going to treat it as if that FAQ still holds, and interpret this rule as RAI instead of RAW.
Glad to hear it works well.
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