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tag8833 wrote:

pinecone77 wrote:

tag8833 wrote:
Also a rules question. If my Trygon Prime comes in turn 2, and one of my TGaunt squads come in turn 3, could the TGaunt use the tunnel even though I've declared them as "Outflanking"? What If my flyrant flies off the board into ongoing reserves, could he come back on through the Trygon Tunnel? Could he do so while Swooping?

Only "infantry" can Tunnel Assault.

Brain fart. I forgot that MC's weren't infantry for a second there.

pinecone77 wrote:
I'd have to read up about if an Outflanker can Tunnel assault. It seems like it depends, on "where" Outflankers are ("in Reserves" maybe yes, "set apart" sounds like NO!) I am of the opinion that you can Tunnel Assault a Zoey Brood ("Jump infantry") But, how will you get them into Reserve? Not something you can plan on, for the most part...

If Outflankers could be pushed out a Tunnel, Genestealers start looking even better...

Zoanthropes are "Infantry" not "Jump Infantry", but I'm reading the rule as clearly giving permission for outflankers or Deep Strikers to use the trygon tunnel.

The Outflank rule on BRB page 40 says:

When an Outflanking unit arrives from Reserves

The Deep Striking rule on BRB page 36 says:

In order for a unit to be able to Deep Strike, all models in the unit must have the Deep strike special rule and the unit must start the game in reserve.

The Subterranean Assault rule on Codex: Tyranids page says:

Any friendly Tyranid Infantry unit that arrives from reserve in subsequent turns may emerge from the Trygon’s tunnel instead of arriving from reserve as normal.

Reserves is a place not a deployment method. Outflank, Deep Strike, and Subterranean Assault are all deployment methods. Codex special rules always override BRB special rules. The only argument for not being able to substitute Subterranean Assault for Outflank or Deep Strike would seem to be that Outflank and Deep Strike are an abnormal way to arrive from reserve.

However, the old (now obsolete) FAQ says:

Q: Can infantry units without wings that were going to arrive from reserves using the deep strike or outflank rules, instead choose to arrive via a Trygon’s Subterranean Assault ability. (p50)
A: No.

So I'm going to treat it as if that FAQ still holds, and interpret this rule as RAI instead of RAW.

Sounds good, I disagree with the old FAQ, but untill a new one pops up (and is differant) its convincing to me...

Any thread lurkers in London get their leviathan II dataslate yet? I'm getting mine at midnight here in the US but I'd love to hear some spoilers.

tag8833 wrote:

The Subterranean Assault rule on Codex: Tyranids page says:

Any friendly Tyranid Infantry unit that arrives from reserve in subsequent turns may emerge from the Trygon’s tunnel instead of arriving from reserve as normal.

Reserves is a place not a deployment method. Outflank, Deep Strike, and Subterranean Assault are all deployment methods. Codex special rules always override BRB special rules. The only argument for not being able to substitute Subterranean Assault for Outflank or Deep Strike would seem to be that Outflank and Deep Strike are an abnormal way to arrive from reserve.

That's the thing. When you declare that you are coming in via deepstriking or outflanking, you are not coming in from reserves as normal. You are coming in through a special method with its own rules to govern how you deploy.

Also, it doesn't make sense to me how you can declare one thing and then later do something completely opposite of what you declared. It's like declaring that you are charging 1 target and then you try to charge another target instead.

In any case, that is how I would play it.

 tetrisphreak wrote:
Any thread lurkers in London get their leviathan II dataslate yet? I'm getting mine at midnight here in the US but I'd love to hear some spoilers.

Made a thread with the skinny in Tactics. Check it out. You're going to love it.

Hey, question. While we're here, and everyone's drifting towards the twin Flyrants with double-down Dakka, a Tervigon and 30 Termagants, a pair of Exocrines, and so on, does anyone have some active reviews from in the field on other options?

No one I've seen yet has talked about using Warriors at all, nor the ... dangit. Hausprix? The thing that isn't an Exocrine. And no one's even *touched* the new Pyrovores.

TheoryHammer's fun and all, but I'm really curious what kinds of foot traffic are out there for this stuff. Like Tyrant Guard... you can take a unit per Tyrant, BUT, you don't have to stick the Tyrant in there... you can run 'em as a unit in and of themselves. WS 5, T 6, Sv 3+ NON-monstrous creatures with Rending and Scythes who can't be thwapped by Krak grenades and who have a high enough save to endure some damage... bonus is that they go ape if a Tyrant gets killed (Like, say, your Flyrant) and get mad crazy aggressive. Surely someone's used them as an assault-based linebreaker for cracking open a tough objective, right?

And people need to try out Pyrovores over the next two weeks. Just to see if they're functional. Everything I see on them says awesome unit that's custom-made for fixing a lot of our problems (Such as dealing with units in cover), but it seems like everyone's gone, "no drop pods? No pyrovores." and shelved them all.

Great sadness.

Anybody want to try out some diversity?

The one time I tried outflanking Prime + 6 dspitter warriors + strangler, they got 1 round of shots off before a DevCent squad + Tig leveled them all in 1 round of shooting. Not the best showing, but it was a brutal shooting phase so it could have just been a fluke.

And pyrovores, I really WANT to believe, but the only way I could see them working in the last dex was to field them in a Spore and drop them down to deliver the flame, but now with no spore... I dunno. Harder to devise effective tactics when they footslog with the rest of our army and can get picked off / kited as easily as anything else. The fact that they're as survivable as a warrior with no offensive capabilities unless they manage to get within range of anything with their flamer is rough stuff.

I have a Vanguard list. Its in the army list section. Its doing well, but I haven't really gone against a truly over the top competitive list

Wakshaani wrote:
Hey, question. While we're here, and everyone's drifting towards the twin Flyrants with double-down Dakka, a Tervigon and 30 Termagants, a pair of Exocrines, and so on, does anyone have some active reviews from in the field on other options?

No one I've seen yet has talked about using Warriors at all, nor the ... dangit. Hausprix? The thing that isn't an Exocrine. And no one's even *touched* the new Pyrovores.

TheoryHammer's fun and all, but I'm really curious what kinds of foot traffic are out there for this stuff. Like Tyrant Guard... you can take a unit per Tyrant, BUT, you don't have to stick the Tyrant in there... you can run 'em as a unit in and of themselves. WS 5, T 6, Sv 3+ NON-monstrous creatures with Rending and Scythes who can't be thwapped by Krak grenades and who have a high enough save to endure some damage... bonus is that they go ape if a Tyrant gets killed (Like, say, your Flyrant) and get mad crazy aggressive. Surely someone's used them as an assault-based linebreaker for cracking open a tough objective, right?

And people need to try out Pyrovores over the next two weeks. Just to see if they're functional. Everything I see on them says awesome unit that's custom-made for fixing a lot of our problems (Such as dealing with units in cover), but it seems like everyone's gone, "no drop pods? No pyrovores." and shelved them all.

Great sadness.

Anybody want to try out some diversity?

Hey Wakshaani...A Pyrovore brood, with 3 stands of rippers out front, and a Venothope nearby....at least they get a good cover save...? 120+45+39? The Pyros can pile into the CC and Acid maw, then take charge of a big area terrain with gory flamey awesomeness! (maybe....)

Well, right now I'm thinking of the Pyros on a "win" of my swarm, tucked in behind 20 Termagants (left wing), 20 Hormagaunts (main middle), and 20 Termagants (right wing) ... they can run (well, lope) at Termagants speed for 1-2 turns before both units settle to shooting... that gives 'em a 5+ cover save, 3+ while the Venomthrope's nearby, and they're a low priority target, so I think that they should be able to push through.

Maybe.
In theory.
Possibly.

Depends on how many other "real" threats I can keep around to pull fire from them. The BIG problem will be against mobile forces (Tau, Eldar, etc), but brotha, they can cook up some Pathfinders like nobody's business.

The prerequisite for Pyrovores being useful is finding an opponent who is unable to take down T4 W3 4+ models with 6 inch movement before they get within 8 inches of them.

 PrinceRaven wrote:
The prerequisite for Pyrovores being useful is finding an opponent who is unable to take down T4 W3 4+ models with 6 inch movement before they get within 8 inches of them.

Which to be hilarious is still less range than a meltagun. I still want to know what GW were thinking with Pyrovores. The model is nice but if I got one it'd be a Biovore every day of the week.

I think this new dataslate is a game changer people!

Quick break down,

Tervigon + 3 gants broods, must re roll any ones to spawn, otherwise unchanged.

Living artillery node, 1 exocrine, 3 Biovores, 1 Warrior Brood, one warrior must take a cannon. All ranged weapons are pinning, all blast and barrage weapons can re roll scatter.

Synaptic swarm, 1 prime, 3 warriors, all models have 18" synapse.

And my favourite one Skyblight swarm...

1 Flyrant
1 Crone
2 Harpies
3 Units of Gargoyles.

Obejctive secured special rule, all Gargoyles have this rule, any Gargoyle in range of an objective controls it, even if there is an enemy unit in range to contest.
Skyswarm all destroyed units of .gargoyles can come back on a 4+ same way the Swarm formation works!

Haruspex is my list and has done very well by me. It has reached cc in every game I've played. There are more than a few players who think my list is terrible.
Here are a few comments I get -

Reaper of Obliterax is inferior to LW/BS/Adrenal/Toxin on a flyrant. Well the adrenals are great if you expect only one round of combat and the Reaper has a 40% better chance of IDing a WK - also will ID a Riptide with ease.

A single Flyrant is essentially giving your opponent 'slay the warlord'. Well, yes it is possible. It is possible with double flyrants too. Meh, never understood this.

Lictors and Deathleaper are terrible. They will never get into position or make their points back. You know if they sdo not bring the Mawloc in ( they have many times) that is still okay. They H+R 3D6 and move all over the opponents DZ, they DS without scatter and run into cover with stealth, Flesh hooks are not half bad, the leapers ability to nerf a warlord is great. I'm told they will never survive a game against a good opponent. I must be playing all noobs.

Haruspex is awful. Well may Haruspex has consistently outperformed my exocrine I had in my list. I don't have a better argument for it.

Nids need all the psychic buffs and synapse they can fit in a list. Well, without biomancy my nids are not what they were. Yes, I do like catalyst, paroxysm and psychic scream. I have -wait for it - one in six chance of getting them. As for IB - I field a list that is the least reliant on IB that I can field. I still can bit in the backside but I'm willing to take that chance.

At 1750 I'm missing a Bastion. It is important to have a bastion or skyshield - I grant that. My list is higher risk for higher rewards.

The Reaper and the Leaper

Flyrant, Scytals, Reaper of Obliterax, Sheddershard Beetles
Deathleaper

2 Lictors
2 Lictors
Haruspex

Tervigon, Regeneration
30 Termagants
5 Genestealers

Hive Crone
Hive Crone

Mawloc
Mawloc

It isn't fancy. I have a few upgrades but not many. I doubt I will table anything anything. I have to win the war of attrition and be aware of the mission and my objective in each game. I rely heavily on movement and positioning. It is what it is with Nids.

Interesting rules blip - the gargoyles score if another scoring unit is in range, but denial units can still prevent them from controlling objectives.

 tetrisphreak wrote:
Interesting rules blip - the gargoyles score if another scoring unit is in range, but denial units can still prevent them from controlling objectives.

Confused

felixcat wrote:Reaper of Obliterax is inferior to LW/BS/Adrenal/Toxin on a flyrant. Well the adrenals are great if you expect only one round of combat and the Reaper has a 40% better chance of IDing a WK - also will ID a Riptide with ease.

Haruspex is awful. Well may Haruspex has consistently outperformed my exocrine I had in my list. I don't have a better argument for it.

the combo is better on walkrants as they can't catch Wraithknights and Fleet is really important. On flyrants I prefer the Reaper myself.

So what does the Haruspex give you that another MC, like a Trygon, can't?

tetrisphreak wrote:Interesting rules blip - the gargoyles score if another scoring unit is in range, but denial units can still prevent them from controlling objectives.

Yeah, that's kinda funny, granted the denial units have to be non-scoring themselves.

So...why cant I buy the dataslate right now, isnt it out already? It still says preorder.

Some countries probably get it earlier than others.

Actually I just paid for it and it let me download it despite it saying its preorder.

 Iechine wrote:

 tetrisphreak wrote:
Interesting rules blip - the gargoyles score if another scoring unit is in range, but denial units can still prevent them from controlling objectives.

Confused

The objective secured rule says gargoyles control objectives even if enemy "scoring" units are in range. Since it specifies only scoring units, denial (non-scoring) units can still prevent the gargoyles from controlling objectives.

It's still a big middle finger to eldar jetbikes who try to steal objectives at the last minute, and the sky swarm rule paired with a lictor or 3 encourages deep striking gargoyle blobs.

Why I like my Haruspex ...

It is a beast specialising in crowd control and brute force like the old cc Carnies. A Haruspex will literally eat its way through most infantry, healing as it goes, and if the infantry does manage to hurt the thing, they get punished for it. I can see a use for that. It has only three attacks but these can generate up to three additional three attacks, and the model has a variant of regeneration that kicks in automatically if they wound something. Crushing claws means it does not have to use smash attacks to kill vehicles, and acid blood hurts if something manages to wound it. Finally, it has a tongue attack with precise shot having a respectable S6 AP2. So it is not for ranged dakka at all. It serves a diffrent function but performs its job very well. That aside it is also another MC taking some heat away from your Tervigon which is sometimes essential. Of course, your opponent can ignore it and try to take out the regening Terv and face the consequences.

Played a game with the Skyblight formation today, and possible unconnected, had my first 'rage quit' opponent.

My list was

1850

Flyrant w/Reaper, Electroshock, AG, HC

Lictor
Outflanking 5 Warriors, devourers w/rending and 1 LW/BS
3 Warriors w/1 Venom Cannon
2 Biovores
2 Mawlocs

Skyblight Formation
Flyrant w/Devourers, LW/BS, Toxin
10 Gargoyles x3
Harpy w/HVC
Harpy w/HVC
Crone

His list was Salamanders...A whirlwind, storm talon, two other tanks (I'm sorry I suck at remembering unit names) sternguard, scout squad. A ton of tactical marines, an Aegis defense line with AA gun, a thunderfire canon.

I played him before with old nids and while I won that game, I dont remember him being douchy or unpleasant. But today was a different story, complaining about rules constantly and when he'd look them up he'd snidely say "If thats how you want to play it."

He'd argue over how many units were under the Mawloc's blast, sarcastically roll his dice on saves he didnt think he should have to take, etc...pretty lame. Turn 4 I pretty much had him crushed and he flipped out that my Mawloc gets a 5+ cover save, which I made on two wounds, and he conceded, angrily packed up and left.

So, does the new formation cause your opponents to freak out? I doubt it because we played Purge the Alien and I basically used the same list I always do + Gargoyles.

/My day

You and your OP Lictor and Warriors, lol... Do you prefer Mawlocs to Trygons? I'm trying to decide between them.

Honestly that list seems pretty tame. Maybe your opponent heard the new nids book is a joke so got offended that such an obviously bad book was beating him?

Sarcasm aside, I don't think in your case using GW approved rules for your models should cause anyone to rage quit. It's certainly no worse than taudar which is maligned yet accepted in the same breath.

At a GT today, and ive yalked with some other Nid players between rounds... The list currently doing the rounds is:

Dakka Flyrant
Dakka Flyrant
Dakka Flyrant

Crone
Crone
Crone
Crone
Harpy (Venom Cannon)
Harpy (Venom Cannon)

10 gargoyles
10 gargoyles
10 gargoyles

10 gants
10 gants

This is so good I want to cry, and fully possible with the Skyblight Swarm! NINE FMCS!!!!

And respawning scoring jump infantry.

 tetrisphreak wrote:
And respawning scoring jump infantry.

That can't be contested. Woo!

Skyblight is game changing. My whole list is being overhauled ( I have to proxy a few models now until I'm done) as there are not many codexes that can deal with seven or eight FMCs at 1750 with respawning jump infantry. It is crazy good. I like my Lictor list - don't get me wrong - but skyblight is just so much stronger it cannot be ignored.

 jifel wrote:

 tetrisphreak wrote:
And respawning scoring jump infantry.

That can't be contested. Woo!

They can, just not by scoring units.

A fair distinction