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 Abandon wrote:

NamelessBard wrote:

 PrinceRaven wrote:
I'd say 7 FMC is a more cheesy list than 9, as it allows you to run lots of pseudo-scoring Gargoyles that come back on a 4+. That's the real cheese of Skyblight Swarm, extra FMCs is just the icing on the cheesecake.

I agree. I think this is the more stronger list with a backfield tervigon. (It's also a lot cheaper for most of us)

Looking forward to watching the battlerep

I was thinking that strengthening those gargoyle broods and adding some cheap backfield synapse(perhaps Strangle Warriors to fill the required troop slots) would be best. Point for point the return on upgraded gargoyles might outweigh the production of termigants and they are of greater tactical use... Or perhaps adding one Trygon instead of added synapse to get the Gargoyles back in the action asap via Trygon tunnel.

I don't have the codex on hand but can jump infantry use the tunnel? I don't think they can. They would be able to deep strike though.

You'll want to keep those gargoyles cheap enough so they can die. I may go as high as 15 but then you may be pushing it. Hard to say though. It's really something that would need play testing to be sure.

Any Infantry can use the tunnels, Gargoyles are Jump Infantry and thus follow the rules for both Jump and Infantry units. So Gargoyles can use the Trygon Tunnel.

Ohhh, that's just DIRTY!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Maybe it's just me but the more I think about it the key element to these new formations is the endless rule. It lets us use our troops as the expendable mass they're intended to be since they have a 50-50 shot at coming back.

Unless, like me, you have a 90% failure rating on important rolls that may very well decide the fate of the game.

Yeah, that 4+ is nice, but it's by no means reliable. You have a 1/8 chance of failing to bring back a single unit, which is slightly lower than a 1/6 chance. I know I wouldn't want to base my strategy of winning on rolling a 6 on a single d6. I'm not trying to suggest that these recurring troops are BAD, far from it, but I'd only be comfortable assuming a single unit comes back and I'd want to be sure I could handle the game if none of them did.

Technically it would be not rolling a 1 rather than rolling a 6 for your comparison, no?

Next Sunday I'm going to the monthly tournament at Huzzah games that I attended last month (got to play jy2's nemesis White Scars there).

Pretty sure this is what Im bringing:

Dragon/Snake 1850

Flyrant w/ Electro grubs, reaper/scything
Flyrant w/ dual Devourers

Lictor
Lictor
10x Termagant
Warrior brood (backfield)
Mawloc
Mawloc

Skyblight:
Flyrant w/LWBS/toxin/scything/electroshock
10 Gargoylex3
Harpy w/HVC x2
Crone

I've flat out had a lot of success with Lictors and Mawlocs lately. I know its 'only' 6 FMC's but Mawlocs are such a danger it will make the opponents deployment and movement tricky. One Mawloc will start on the board to allow the Lictors to secure a moneyshot.

is there any way to make a FUN list that just doesn't sucks with the swarmlord+3 hive guards?

Not really (IMO) because of the massive point sink for a foot slogging, non shooting 3+ armor MC. He and his guard are dead unless youre going against a really fluffy list.

However, fun is a lot of things to different people.

I personally don't build many lists without swarmy in it. His special abilities and powers make him well worth his points...I also recommend using an exocrine and Carnifexes in conjunction

I'm interested in seeing what people can do with 1250 points and below lists. I feel like higher point games are where it's easier to make 'nids beefy because you can spam the big guns.

What would be an ideal competitive list for low point games, though. At 1250, you can still rock riptide shenanigans, grimoire abuse and other power builds. I challenge you fellas to figure out the nastiest list a nid player could bring to a low-point tourny (1250 and below).

 BlaxicanX wrote:
I'm interested in seeing what people can do with 1250 points and below lists. I feel like higher point games are where it's easier to make 'nids beefy because you can spam the big guns.

What would be an ideal competitive list for low point games, though. At 1250, you can still rock riptide shenanigans, grimoire abuse and other power builds. I challenge you fellas to figure out the nastiest list a nid player could bring to a low-point tourny (1250 and below).

2 Flyrants, Venom and Dakkafexes?

I want to see lists!

Dragon/Snake 1850

Flyrant w/ Electro grubs, reaper/scything
Flyrant w/ dual Devourers

Lictor
Lictor
10x Termagant
Warrior brood (backfield)
Mawloc
Mawloc

Skyblight:
Flyrant w/LWBS/toxin/scything/electroshock
10 Gargoylex3
Harpy w/HVC x2
Crone

I like that

badula wrote:
is there any way to make a FUN list that just doesn't sucks with the swarmlord+3 hive guards?

I doubt it, but I figured it might be worth a try. I play at 1850, so that is the size of list I'm going to build.

3 Tyrant Guard
Swarmlord

1 Venomthrope
1 Venomthrope

12 HGaunts
10 TGaunts
10 TGaunts

3 Carnifexes (2 TL Devourers each)
Exocrine
TFex

Living Artillery Node
3 Warriors (2 Devourers, 1 Barbed Strangler)
Exocrine
3 Biovores

I think that list would do ok in my local meta except against tau and Necron flying circus.

ETA. I promise to give it a shot as soon as I get my Tyrant Guard painted.

badula wrote:
is there any way to make a FUN list that just doesn't sucks with the swarmlord+3 hive guards?

Not unless they come out with an awesome Swarmlords Brood formation in the next slate.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BlaxicanX wrote:
I'm interested in seeing what people can do with 1250 points and below lists. I feel like higher point games are where it's easier to make 'nids beefy because you can spam the big guns.

What would be an ideal competitive list for low point games, though. At 1250, you can still rock riptide shenanigans, grimoire abuse and other power builds. I challenge you fellas to figure out the nastiest list a nid player could bring to a low-point tourny (1250 and below).

There's little reason to take formations at that point level so...

1 Flyrant - dual devourers
1 Flyrant - dual devourers
3 Warriors - Barbed Strangler
3 Warriors - Barbed Strangler
1 Venomthrope
1 Hive Crone
1 Hive Crone
1 Hive Crone
1 Biovore
1 Biovore

 BlaxicanX wrote:
I'm interested in seeing what people can do with 1250 points and below lists. I feel like higher point games are where it's easier to make 'nids beefy because you can spam the big guns.

What would be an ideal competitive list for low point games, though. At 1250, you can still rock riptide shenanigans, grimoire abuse and other power builds. I challenge you fellas to figure out the nastiest list a nid player could bring to a low-point tourny (1250 and below).

Challenge accepted

HQ: 470
Hive Tyrant - wings, 2 devourers, toxin sacs
Hive Tyrant - wings, 2 devourers

Troops: 470
Tervigon - cluster spines, shreddershard beetles
30 Termagants - 20 spinefists, 10 devourers
3 Warriors with barbed stranger

Fast Attack: 310
Hive Crone
Hive Crone

double dakkafex is also an option over double Hive Crone.

Almost tempted to see what folk could come up with at 1500 points here - bearing in mind that Escalation is allowed (though I'd not be fielding any superheavies). And I know there are Baneblades and Stompas present...

 DarkStarSabre wrote:
Almost tempted to see what folk could come up with at 1500 points here - bearing in mind that Escalation is allowed (though I'd not be fielding any superheavies). And I know there are Baneblades and Stompas present...

Dual Flyrants
3 Single Zoeys
2x10 Termagaunts
Exocrine
(Skyblight)
3x 10 Gargs
2x Harpies
1x Crone

= 1465

I still think Zoeys are amazing and always underestimated. Exocrine & zoeys fill the ap2/3 gap left by the rest of the army. Plus synapse.

At 1500 the best list is pretty much Skyblight Swarm with some extra Tyrants and Hive Crone.

Razerous wrote:

 DarkStarSabre wrote:
Almost tempted to see what folk could come up with at 1500 points here - bearing in mind that Escalation is allowed (though I'd not be fielding any superheavies). And I know there are Baneblades and Stompas present...

Dual Flyrants
3 Single Zoeys
2x10 Termagaunts
Exocrine
(Skyblight)
3x 10 Gargs
2x Harpies
1x Crone

= 1465

I still think Zoeys are amazing and always underestimated. Exocrine & zoeys fill the ap2/3 gap left by the rest of the army. Plus synapse.

If there will be Superheavies, I would recomend dropping 3 Zoeys and adding a Crone... Haywire at range > short range Lance

I'd stick for Synapse and buffing. Against superheavies, there isn't much in the way of 'fair or/and reasonable'.

Against Knights, I'd still stick with the Zoans. Range is much less of an issue and still, buffing and synapse.

Interesting - though the situation I am looking at sadly had no Formations allowed for the sake of the league (but he allowed Escalation. -_- < My face...)

I'm currently happily set on the following for 1500...but this was pre-Crones and considering I've not played any games yet...

Flyrant - 2 x Twin Devourers
Hive Tyrant - Twin Devourers, Heavy Venom Cannon, Hive Commander
*Tyrant Guard

Venomthrope
Venomthrope

30 Termagants
Tervigon

2 Carnifexes - 2 x Twin Devourers
2 Carnifexes - 2 x Twin Devourers

Honestly thinking of splitting one brood into two single Carnifexes and then taking the points for the second and getting 2 Crones instead, losing Hive Commander as well.

Thoughts?

Razerous wrote:

 DarkStarSabre wrote:
Almost tempted to see what folk could come up with at 1500 points here - bearing in mind that Escalation is allowed (though I'd not be fielding any superheavies). And I know there are Baneblades and Stompas present...

Spoiler:

Dual Flyrants
3 Single Zoeys
2x10 Termagaunts
Exocrine
(Skyblight)
3x 10 Gargs
2x Harpies
1x Crone

= 1465

I still think Zoeys are amazing and always underestimated. Exocrine & zoeys fill the ap2/3 gap left by the rest of the army. Plus synapse.

Zoeys aren't as good as they would seem on the surface. They have to make a psychic test which they fail 1/6 of the time. Then the opponent has a deny the witch which can easily be buffed by many armies, but even the basic deny the witch is going to knock out 1/6 of the zoey's shooting. Then they have to roll to hit, which they will miss 1/3 of the time. Then they have to roll to glance or pen which they will fail 1/6 of the time (because they don't have speed to get back or even side armor). Also they will kill themselves in two turns 1/36 of the time, and more often if they manage to make it to turn 5.

So their effective armor penning is: 5/6 (psychic test) * 5/6 (deny the witch) * 2/3 (roll to hit) * 5/6 (roll to glance / pen) = 250/648 = 38.58%. That isn't very good, especially given that they move slow, and can only shoot within 18". You would be better off with Crones. Haywire missiles hit 1/2 of the time, and glance or pen 5/6 of the time with an effectiveness of 5/12 = 41.67% plus a crone is harder to hit, can fire 2 missiles, can vector strike, and can Smash. Still not great, but way better than Zoeys, and way more reliable because the opponent can't get deny the witch buffs.

I would also comment that Zoeys now seem to be better used for their secondary Psychic Power - Warp Blast is all well and good but very short ranged and as pointed out above, not terribly reliable. It's a lesson a Daemon playing friend of mine learned about Pink Horrors - one roll of a 6 neuters an entire unit's firepower.

However, the other Psychic Powers - Dominion, Onslaught, Catalyst...all very worthwhile and DTW proof as well. Dominion creates a larger Synapse bubble - which is becoming vital with the amount of flyers and outflankers we are starting to field now, Onslaught helps the Dakkafexes and Tyrannofexes advance and Catalyst is a lifesaver for everything...

Alright, so after a lot of thought and lurking on this thread, I have decided to piece together two lists. One utilizes the new Skyblight Swarm formation, while the other utilizes the Living Artillery Node formation. Let me hear what you think. Both lists are 1,850.

Skyblight Swarm:

H.Q.
Hive Tyrant
- Wings
- TL Devourers

Troops
Termagant Brood
- 30x Termagants
- 10x Devourers
- 20x Spinefists

Tervigon
- Scything Talons

Elites
Zoanthrope
Zoanthrope

Heavy Support
Carnifex
- 2x TL Devourers
- Adrenal Glands

Carnifex
- 2x TL Devourers
- Adrenal Glands

The Skyblight Swarm
Hive Tyrant
- Wings
- TL Devourers

Hive Crone
Harpy
Harpy

Gargoyle Brood
- 10x Gargoyles

Gargoyle Brood
- 10x Gargoyles

Gargoyle Brood
- 10x Gargoyles


And for the second list..


H.Q.
Hive Tyrant
- Wings
- TL Devourers

Hive Tyrant
- Wings
- TL Devourers

Troops
Termagant Brood
- 30x Termagants
- 10x Devourers
- 20x Spinefists

Tervigon
- Scything Talons

Elites
Zoanthrope Brood
- 2x Zoanthropes

Venomthrope
Venomthrope

Heavy Support
Carnifex
- 2x TL Devourers

Carnifex
- 2x TL Devourers

Mawloc
- Acid Blood (needed to spend 10-15 points somewhere..)

The Living Artillery Node
Biovore
Biovore
Biovore
Exocrine
Warrior Brood
- Venom Cannon

Again, let me know what you think guys. The help is really appreciated.

Journeyman351 wrote:
The Living Artillery Node
Biovore
Biovore
Biovore
Exocrine
Warrior Brood
- Venom Cannon

They changed the rules. It is one Biovore Brood with 3 Biovores in it. You can't run 3 Biovore broods, which is a bit of a nerf, but the formation is still good.

tag8833 wrote:
Zoeys aren't as good as they would seem on the surface. They have to make a psychic test which they fail 1/6 of the time. Then the opponent has a deny the witch which can easily be buffed by many armies, but even the basic deny the witch is going to knock out 1/6 of the zoey's shooting. Then they have to roll to hit, which they will miss 1/3 of the time. Then they have to roll to glance or pen which they will fail 1/6 of the time (because they don't have speed to get back or even side armor). Also they will kill themselves in two turns 1/36 of the time, and more often if they manage to make it to turn 5.

This is a general rulebook issue with psychic shooting. They should have made it so that Witchfire powers automatically hit, or non-psykers don't get to roll DtW to balance things out.

Journeyman351 wrote:

Mawloc
- Acid Blood (needed to spend 10-15 points somewhere..)

If you have 15pts spare put Adrenal Glands on the Flyrant dude. Fleet is always useful.

xttz wrote:

tag8833 wrote:
Zoeys aren't as good as they would seem on the surface. They have to make a psychic test which they fail 1/6 of the time. Then the opponent has a deny the witch which can easily be buffed by many armies, but even the basic deny the witch is going to knock out 1/6 of the zoey's shooting. Then they have to roll to hit, which they will miss 1/3 of the time. Then they have to roll to glance or pen which they will fail 1/6 of the time (because they don't have speed to get back or even side armor). Also they will kill themselves in two turns 1/36 of the time, and more often if they manage to make it to turn 5.

This is a general rulebook issue with psychic shooting. They should have made it so that Witchfire powers automatically hit, or non-psykers don't get to roll DtW to balance things out.

Journeyman351 wrote:

Mawloc
- Acid Blood (needed to spend 10-15 points somewhere..)

If you have 15pts spare put Adrenal Glands on the Flyrant dude. Fleet is always useful.

On just ONE of the two Flyrants? Hmm, that is a possibility. I guess they'll each be doing their own thing anyways.

tag8833 wrote:

Journeyman351 wrote:
The Living Artillery Node
Biovore
Biovore
Biovore
Exocrine
Warrior Brood
- Venom Cannon

They changed the rules. It is one Biovore Brood with 3 Biovores in it. You can't run 3 Biovore broods, which is a bit of a nerf, but the formation is still good.

Hmm.. alright then, still three Biovores nonetheless!

 DarkStarSabre wrote:
Interesting - though the situation I am looking at sadly had no Formations allowed for the sake of the league (but he allowed Escalation. -_- < My face...)

I'm currently happily set on the following for 1500...but this was pre-Crones and considering I've not played any games yet...

Flyrant - 2 x Twin Devourers
Hive Tyrant - Twin Devourers, Heavy Venom Cannon, Hive Commander
*Tyrant Guard

Venomthrope
Venomthrope

30 Termagants
Tervigon

2 Carnifexes - 2 x Twin Devourers
2 Carnifexes - 2 x Twin Devourers

Honestly thinking of splitting one brood into two single Carnifexes and then taking the points for the second and getting 2 Crones instead, losing Hive Commander as well.

Thoughts?

Yeah, you don't really have anyone for the Hive Commander to work on...I'd be happy dropping two Dakkafexen, and tossing in two Mawlocs.
I'd want to find enough to put in a Zoey...but I always want a Zoey, or two

Me personally, I would build this with 2 Dakkafex, Mawloc, and a Tyranofex, and only run the Winged Dakka'rant. But that is a "style" thing (and I'd toss in a zoey with the cost savings)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

tag8833 wrote:

Razerous wrote:

 DarkStarSabre wrote:
Almost tempted to see what folk could come up with at 1500 points here - bearing in mind that Escalation is allowed (though I'd not be fielding any superheavies). And I know there are Baneblades and Stompas present...

Spoiler:

Dual Flyrants
3 Single Zoeys
2x10 Termagaunts
Exocrine
(Skyblight)
3x 10 Gargs
2x Harpies
1x Crone

= 1465

I still think Zoeys are amazing and always underestimated. Exocrine & zoeys fill the ap2/3 gap left by the rest of the army. Plus synapse.

Zoeys aren't as good as they would seem on the surface. They have to make a psychic test which they fail 1/6 of the time. Then the opponent has a deny the witch which can easily be buffed by many armies, but even the basic deny the witch is going to knock out 1/6 of the zoey's shooting. Then they have to roll to hit, which they will miss 1/3 of the time. Then they have to roll to glance or pen which they will fail 1/6 of the time (because they don't have speed to get back or even side armor). Also they will kill themselves in two turns 1/36 of the time, and more often if they manage to make it to turn 5.

So their effective armor penning is: 5/6 (psychic test) * 5/6 (deny the witch) * 2/3 (roll to hit) * 5/6 (roll to glance / pen) = 250/648 = 38.58%. That isn't very good, especially given that they move slow, and can only shoot within 18". You would be better off with Crones. Haywire missiles hit 1/2 of the time, and glance or pen 5/6 of the time with an effectiveness of 5/12 = 41.67% plus a crone is harder to hit, can fire 2 missiles, can vector strike, and can Smash. Still not great, but way better than Zoeys, and way more reliable because the opponent can't get deny the witch buffs.

Minor nit pick, but you're tossing numbers around...you fail the roll 3 in 36, or 1 in 12.....not 1 in 6


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 DarkStarSabre wrote:
I would also comment that Zoeys now seem to be better used for their secondary Psychic Power - Warp Blast is all well and good but very short ranged and as pointed out above, not terribly reliable. It's a lesson a Daemon playing friend of mine learned about Pink Horrors - one roll of a 6 neuters an entire unit's firepower.

However, the other Psychic Powers - Dominion, Onslaught, Catalyst...all very worthwhile and DTW proof as well. Dominion creates a larger Synapse bubble - which is becoming vital with the amount of flyers and outflankers we are starting to field now, Onslaught helps the Dakkafexes and Tyrannofexes advance and Catalyst is a lifesaver for everything...

I gotta agree, I usually break out broods to maximise rolls on the Powers of the Hive Mind chart. To me Warp Lance is pure gravy. I grab them as Synapse, that also adds Psycher ability, and has decent durability....