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 ductvader wrote:
And instead Swarmy became akin to Papa Hive Mind, being able to be uploaded and reincarnated via any hive fleet throughout the galaxy.

The Swarmlord always have been able to reincarnate, like any other Hive Tyrant.

Sadly i'm finding myself less and less interested in playing painting and building a tyranid force!

mostly because just for not sucking i'm forced to play them in a way i don't like

i'd like to go up and personal but without pods is impossible
i don't like FMC very much
and even long range units like exocrines or biovores are less and less appealing to me!

let's hope for a good 3rd dataslate or i might just hang WH40k to a wall and go back painting random miniatures

 ductvader wrote:

 Tyran wrote:

 ductvader wrote:

 Tyran wrote:

 ductvader wrote:
If only Venomthropes had a 4+ sv.

PS: I know that the Bug Stories had them always ending with their @sses getting handed to them, but they were by far some of the best stories I have seen in a codex...Blackreach was Amazing.

Not always (points to Desert Raiders and The Fall of Malvolion). Also many Tyranids stories use a lot of one trick deus ex machina.

Indeed...all a preparation for Leviathan. I like to think that all of these Hive Fleets or just the tip of one tiny Tyranid Tendril spreading throughout the Universe.

I don't know if anyone else was sad that they once and for all killed the Swarmlord's first incarnation in the story.

? please explain, I don't remember that.

In this new book Swarmy loses his wandering about Macragge status and instead they say they find his body in the Wilderness...which makes more sense...like the Ultramarines are just going to leave that to chance. And instead Swarmy became akin to Papa Hive Mind, being able to be uploaded and reincarnated via any hive fleet throughout the galaxy.

Uh....Swarmlord never wandered about Macragge to be found in the Wilderness.

Pretty sure that was Old One Eye who was felled, frozen, dug up, thawed out and then rampaged only to have later reports of similar creatures being found.

Swarmlord has always been the reincarnating Uber-Tyrant...

 jy2 wrote:

You don't have to build/play with buildings. You can play as fluffy as you like with nids.

Meanwhile, the Eldar are teaming up with their dark kin as if they had never separated, marines and Tau are both allying themselves with a Tau Commander who breaks all of the rules of the games, Daemons are running multiple psykers that will overload you with their psychic abilities and who are nigh unkillable with the Grimoire, and every Imperial army nowadays seem to have a spare Coteaz tucked away in their trunk somewhere.

If you want to run Tyranids the way they were meant to, that's fine. Just don't expect them to be able to compete against the current tournament armies without bringing in combos of their own. That includes Dataslates and things like the bastions, skyshields and fortifications. That's just the sad reality. If you want to play fluffy, you are going to to be playing with a major handicap against other competitive tournament builds. We need to run combos just to be on an even footing against some of the better armies, and even then, sometimes it's a struggle.

jy2 - I agree with what you are saying. It just saddens me that after 4 years of the last mess (5th ed dex - the dex was bad enough but I disliked tervigons (concept and implementation) and never played them which made things worse as they were the go-to unit, especially when 6th edition should up), the current nid dex does not stand well on its own against many armies and I think it will age poorly (and quickly). I understand why dataslates are necessary/useful to compete with the strong builds and have watched some of your battle reports to learn how you handle fighting different armies (they are nice to see - please keep doing them). Just very disappointed - I find it hard to get motivated to play anymore.

badula wrote:
Sadly i'm finding myself less and less interested in playing painting and building a tyranid force!

mostly because just for not sucking i'm forced to play them in a way i don't like

i'd like to go up and personal but without pods is impossible
i don't like FMC very much
and even long range units like exocrines or biovores are less and less appealing to me!

let's hope for a good 3rd dataslate or i might just hang WH40k to a wall and go back painting random miniatures

I've been running 9 Raveners supported by 2 squads of 6 Shrikes. It isn't a terribly balanced list, but it is pretty up close and personal, and has a tendency to roll people if they don't know it is coming.

xttz wrote:

Using bastions and such is technically fine and all, but I think his point (and I agree) is that Nids shouldn't have to buy buildings to make a common strategy viable. Especially not for the purpose of hiding a single model inside. Tabletop Tyranid swarms should reflect the fluff, a writhing, indistinguishable mass of organisms that makes it virtually impossible to pick out a target of choice. It would have made much more sense if things like Venomthropes could be attached to units of guants and the like, rather than needing to hide them in buildings like a Grot. Such an approach could even make Pyrovores viable and make synapse more reliable if used with Warriors.

In a related note, I'm nearly finished reading Warriors of Ultramar, which is about a Tyranid invasion of an Imperial world. One part that really drove home the extreme Tyranid numbers is a scene where:

Spoiler:

they only train guardsmen for melee combat. There's no point in target practice because they literally could not miss when firing at the advancing swarm, but having to fend off creatures in melee was inevitable.

It would be great if Nids played like that in the actual game.

Theorically, Tyranids adapt to everything, it's not always just endless mass of organisms. Against the demons in the new codex, they just spammed Exocrine and Biovore to annihilate them at range (with some zoeys as backup for the Great Unclean One). In St- Caspalen, a single lictor ( Deathleaper!) destroyed all the moral and strategy of the planet, then the swarm came. In Malanthai, the Doom soloed the whole planet once it had enough power ( thanks to a distraction of the dying fleet).

Seems there's still a bunch of tactics possible, aside from Venom in a box. Though i agree, it would have been awesome if the Venom could join squads, like an IC.

badula wrote:Sadly i'm finding myself less and less interested in playing painting and building a tyranid force!

mostly because just for not sucking i'm forced to play them in a way i don't like

i'd like to go up and personal but without pods is impossible
i don't like FMC very much
and even long range units like exocrines or biovores are less and less appealing to me!

let's hope for a good 3rd dataslate or i might just hang WH40k to a wall and go back painting random miniatures

Seems there is one with trygon, mawlock and raveners.

For an upclose and personnal style of game, seems endless swarm with some trygons would be awesome. Take minimum for termies, huge squads for hormagaunts. Then use your normal troops for genestealers so they already start in the enemie's base. 6 squads would be scary, with 90 more hormagaunts running there way. Could probably get two melee flyrants too, they'll be in melee very soon if they fly at full speed.

badula wrote:
Sadly i'm finding myself less and less interested in playing painting and building a tyranid force!

mostly because just for not sucking i'm forced to play them in a way i don't like

i'd like to go up and personal but without pods is impossible
i don't like FMC very much
and even long range units like exocrines or biovores are less and less appealing to me!

let's hope for a good 3rd dataslate or i might just hang WH40k to a wall and go back painting random miniatures

I hear what you're saying. But all CC is nerffy in the current rules environment. That is not the Codex, it's 6th. And Nids have a better chance at being a CC army than just about anyone (stop yelling Waaagh! Ork! ) Tunneling is a viable alternative to pods, IMHO. If you have the figures handy....

Just ran 1850 game with Manufactorum stealers and living artillery node. The formations provide that extra punch. Being able to set 210 points of stealers right inside a guard deployment zone, then walk 6 S7 ap2 in to range on turn one was quite devastating to the chimera, followed by 3 pie plate barrage and a pinning vc. The guard left standing had to pour in to 3 broods in the backfeild instead of firing down feild on turn one. (The 2 MBT and executioner still hurt)

Ok. Feedback from the 2.5k game. Quick summary of how things did in my opinion.

Tyranid Psychic Powers - the fact we get a huge chunk of blessings is good. I actually found myself using the Zoanthropes for their second power rather than the first. Catalyst is amazing, Onslaught helps push early movement faster and Dominion is a life saver - especially on a Flyrant.

Flyrants - I actually rather love these guys a bit more. They're all about positioning (for Dominion) for when the Swarm starts to spread and need to be used craftily - I kept mine in jump mode until I was at a point I could send ALL my FMCs forward at the same time onto multiple targets - saturation is important.

*Hive commander - Did not impress. It seems to be 20 points and very situational. In the end I opted not to use it as the gaunts need Synapse-sitting, Warriors are too valuable to throw in that deep in small pocket broods and a Tervigon does better in the back line buffing its bigger buddies. 2+ turns lacking its Psychic support would have probably turned the game on its head.

Zoanthropes - I don't rate them as highly as I used to. Sure, they're synapse but I found myself using them more for their second power than their first. Warp Blast just seems to fall down and fail to impress.


Venomthropes - Nothing says rude like a Carnifex brood with a 2+ cover save. May be tempted to keep them as individuals rather than a brood though to better spread their love.

Termagants - They put out an impressive amount of firepower but at the end of the day they're expendible meat shields and distractions. Didn't expect much, didn't get much.

Hormagaunts - Like termagants, but slightly faster. Good for soaking a unit's firepower. That's about it.

Crones - I love them, but they're very much like Flyrants - you keep them hidden and in jump mode until you reach a point where you can spontaneously flood the enemy with targets. Vector Strike is amazingly useful (it deletes MSUs and plays hell with MSU Marine units with FNP priests or Apothecaries heh) but the Tentaclids were...very hit and miss. Perhaps only fire those off at a weakened target as a finishing blow. Never rely on them to take something out as BS 3 and Haywire is not too reliable as a direct killer.

Gargoyles - Gaunts! Gaunts with wings! Same expectations really.

Carnifexes - I had high hopes and they delivered. The sheer volume of twin linked S6 shots that a brood of 2 dakkafexes puts out is just unholy. It punished everything. Small units melted under weight of fire, regardless of saves and it was fantastic for forcing wounds onto key models with torrent of fire. 24 shots per brood is a beautiful thing.

Tyrannofex - This guy is the star of the show for me. The difference a 2+ save makes is immense. He became an immediate priority, expecially with Acid Spray and Electroshock and use of Onslaught. He has to be played aggressively but makes a fantastic bully buddy when accompanied by Carnifexes.

All in all - I like, very much so. But our anti-vehicle/fortification options may as well be summed up as mass glancing or get something big in combat with the aforementioned vehicle and fortification and go to town smashing.

Personally, my Flyrants spend most of the time Swooping, a Hard to Hit Toughness 6 model with a 4+ cover save is wonderfully durable.

 Ventus wrote:

 jy2 wrote:

You don't have to build/play with buildings. You can play as fluffy as you like with nids.

Meanwhile, the Eldar are teaming up with their dark kin as if they had never separated, marines and Tau are both allying themselves with a Tau Commander who breaks all of the rules of the games, Daemons are running multiple psykers that will overload you with their psychic abilities and who are nigh unkillable with the Grimoire, and every Imperial army nowadays seem to have a spare Coteaz tucked away in their trunk somewhere.

If you want to run Tyranids the way they were meant to, that's fine. Just don't expect them to be able to compete against the current tournament armies without bringing in combos of their own. That includes Dataslates and things like the bastions, skyshields and fortifications. That's just the sad reality. If you want to play fluffy, you are going to to be playing with a major handicap against other competitive tournament builds. We need to run combos just to be on an even footing against some of the better armies, and even then, sometimes it's a struggle.

jy2 - I agree with what you are saying. It just saddens me that after 4 years of the last mess (5th ed dex - the dex was bad enough but I disliked tervigons (concept and implementation) and never played them which made things worse as they were the go-to unit, especially when 6th edition should up), the current nid dex does not stand well on its own against many armies and I think it will age poorly (and quickly). I understand why dataslates are necessary/useful to compete with the strong builds and have watched some of your battle reports to learn how you handle fighting different armies (they are nice to see - please keep doing them). Just very disappointed - I find it hard to get motivated to play anymore.

It's all really a matter of Expectation management.

It's all really simple. Say you go to the local playground looking to play a game of hoops. There you team up with other players whom you have never played with before for a pickup game. Then you look across and your opponents happen to be an organized ballclub who constantly practices and plays together and who had even just recently won their Division title. Do you honestly expect to be able to compete against them, or would it be better to lower your expectations to just having fun and maybe learning a thing or two from much more experienced players?

In 40K, fluffy lists can do well against other fluffy lists. However, an average fluffy list just cannot keep up with a highly-optimized, power-combo'd tournament list. That's where most of the disappointment comes in from - players bringing their themed lists, or lists consisting of units that they like aesthetically, and expecting to be able to compete against some of the more powerhouse lists out there....and then getting owned. When you go up against such armies, you either need to lower your expectations dramatically or just don't play against them. And if this was in an actual tournament, you're going to have to brace yourself for probably 1 round of getting thumped, but then it becomes much more enjoyable as you play against other players/armies more at your level. If you truly want to compete with the better armies, then you've got to rethink your list to include synergies and combos of your own. The sad truth nowadays is that very armies can have their cake and eat it also. Very few armies nowadays can be both fluffy and truly competitive.

Random thought - there's a helbrute formation that gained the deep strike rule. Wouldn't it be nice if the carnifexes get a similar treatment this weekend?

(Wishful thinking, I know)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Random thought - there's a helbrute formation that gained the deep strike rule. Wouldn't it be nice if the carnifexes get a similar treatment this weekend?

(Wishful thinking, I know)

Oh god that'd be awesome.

Random thought - there's a helbrute formation that gained the deep strike rule. Wouldn't it be nice if the carnifexes get a similar treatment this weekend?

(Wishful thinking, I know)

 tetrisphreak wrote:
Random thought - there's a helbrute formation that gained the deep strike rule. Wouldn't it be nice if the carnifexes get a similar treatment this weekend?

(Wishful thinking, I know)

T-t-triple post combo!

^ LOL.

I'm excited for a our next codex.

Wow. I don't know what caused that wonky three-post. Sorry guys.

If you look around you can find the names of all the formations
Subterranean - we already know
Bioblast Node
Tyrant Node
Wrecker Node http://www.blacklibrary.com/Images/Games-Workshop-Digital/2014/march/19-03-levrisIII-categ.jpg
And Living Tide (some combo of Tyrant Node and other formations)

 tetrisphreak wrote:
Wow. I don't know what caused that wonky three-post. Sorry guys.

This would of been funnier if you had of posted it three times lol




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 PrinceRaven wrote:
Personally, my Flyrants spend most of the time Swooping, a Hard to Hit Toughness 6 model with a 4+ cover save is wonderfully durable.

Why a 4+ ?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 sn0zcumb3r wrote:
If you look around you can find the names of all the formations
Subterranean - we already know
Bioblast Node
Tyrant Node
Wrecker Node http://www.blacklibrary.com/Images/Games-Workshop-Digital/2014/march/19-03-levrisIII-categ.jpg
And Living Tide (some combo of Tyrant Node and other formations)

Any chance you can imbed the image file? I can not see it as black library is banned on my work comp :(

bodazoka wrote:

 PrinceRaven wrote:
Personally, my Flyrants spend most of the time Swooping, a Hard to Hit Toughness 6 model with a 4+ cover save is wonderfully durable.

Why a 4+ ?

Well sometimes it's 3+ or 2+, but I can't guarantee Night Fighting or being near Venomthropes 100% of the time.

 PrinceRaven wrote:

bodazoka wrote:
quote=PrinceRaven 572843 6664311 be96ffae8c080b775442184f46e0770e.jpg]Personally, my Flyrants spend most of the time Swooping, a Hard to Hit Toughness 6 model with a 4+ cover save is wonderfully durable.

Why a 4+ ?

Well sometimes it's 3+ or 2+, but I can't guarantee Night Fighting or being near Venomthropes 100% of the time.

Ruins grant 4+ cover saves.

 PrinceRaven wrote:
Ruins grant 4+ cover saves.

Are you taking ruins cover saves while swooping? Or did you mean you were gliding?

Yes, I swoop my Flyrants behind ruins to get 4+ cover.

 PrinceRaven wrote:
Yes, I swoop my Flyrants behind ruins to get 4+ cover.

I'm reading the FMC rules right now, and I can't see where that is prohibited, but I feel like it is wrong. Swooping FMCs should only get Jink (if they dive), otherwise no cover, right?

What makes you think that? They get cover saves just like any other non-vehicle model.

tag8833 wrote:

 PrinceRaven wrote:
Yes, I swoop my Flyrants behind ruins to get 4+ cover.

I'm reading the FMC rules right now, and I can't see where that is prohibited, but I feel like it is wrong. Swooping FMCs should only get Jink (if they dive), otherwise no cover, right?

No, they still benefit from terrain.

Megamanrocks wrote:

tag8833 wrote:

 PrinceRaven wrote:
Yes, I swoop my Flyrants behind ruins to get 4+ cover.

I'm reading the FMC rules right now, and I can't see where that is prohibited, but I feel like it is wrong. Swooping FMCs should only get Jink (if they dive), otherwise no cover, right?

No, they still benefit from terrain.

Yeah, Swooping FMCs get all the benefits of terrain and none of the drawbacks. It feels wrong but that's how it is.

If we have to deal with being grounded from markerlights, we should get terrain in return.

Well, it's "swooping" isn't it? So it swooped down low to take advantage of the cover.