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Thank you Jy2! Big exalts for you pal, plenty of us have no experience with Lords of War


What would also rock is a smaller guide telling us which enemy LoW to look out for when playing Tyranids in general (IE whether we have a LoW ourselves or not)

I just played my second game of 7th, I used a Harridan.
My opponent was Necrons. I will say that Necron mech has become stronger thanks to the changes to jink. And CCB are a pain in the ass. On the other hand Its great to be able to shoot Warp blast alongside the other weapons.

I lost the game thanks to Ever Living rolls, the damned Cryptek refused to die.

Terrific post Jy2! I'm glad to see other players like what they see with Ripper Swarms!

The only place I would disagree with you is the Harridan relative to the Hierophant. I would switch their ratings and give the Harridan the A and the Hierophant an A-. No doubt both are wicked good, but I like the survivability of the Harridan more. Plus, can you buy both the Acid Blood and the transport capacity on the Heirophant? I thought it was only one for some reason.

 jy2 wrote:


Swarm Incubation Chamber A+

This upgrade lets the HBT transport 20 models. Now the great thing about Apocalypse transports is that you can actually transport more than 1 unit! That means the bio-titan can transport a venomthrope, a zoanthrope and some troops as well!

The wording for the Hierophant upgrade is as follows:

The Hierophant Bio-titan gains a Transport capacity of 20 models, and friendly units chosen from Codex: Tyranids may embark and disembark from it as though it was a Vehicle with the Transport type and Assault Vehicle special rule

Interpreted as RAW, it has to be treated like a regular vehicle rather than a super-heavy, so it can only carry a single unit. It would probably be fine in casual games, but for a tournament setting I'd be prepared for this to be challenged. Probably best not to write a list around the rule just in case - join a Prime to the Venomthrope instead if you want to do an aura thing.

 SHUPPET wrote:
Thank you Jy2! Big exalts for you pal, plenty of us have no experience with Lords of War


What would also rock is a smaller guide telling us which enemy LoW to look out for when playing Tyranids in general (IE whether we have a LoW ourselves or not)

Ok, I will add an amendment later on how to play against other LoW's and the vulnerabilities of our Tyranid LoW's themselves.

 jifel wrote:
Terrific post Jy2! I'm glad to see other players like what they see with Ripper Swarms!

The only place I would disagree with you is the Harridan relative to the Hierophant. I would switch their ratings and give the Harridan the A and the Hierophant an A-. No doubt both are wicked good, but I like the survivability of the Harridan more. Plus, can you buy both the Acid Blood and the transport capacity on the Heirophant? I thought it was only one for some reason.

I'm liking the ripper swarms not for their survivability, but rather, for their mobility. The key to 7th Edition is mobile scoring and that is what the rippers give you. You are not just limited to hiding them in your deployment zone. Now, you can hide them almost anywhere on the table.

There are several reasons why I chose the Hierophant over the Harridan.

1. Flexibility. The HBT is a much more flexible unit than the Harridan. Depending on your needs, the HBT can fulfill several roles with the various upgrades that you can give it. It can go anti-air, anti-infantry, anti-horde, souped-up assault unit or force-multiplier. The Harridan is more limited in its role as a flying gunboat which can transport just 1 type of unit.

2. Better area denial. Due to its much better assault, the HBT is much better at controlling territory. As a GC and with its mobility, the Harridan isn't bad either. However, it is much easier to kill as soon as it lands on the ground. The Harridan just cannot hold ground as well as the HBT. Like other Tyranid FMC's, you should only ground him near the end when you want to grab an objective.

3. Brute-Force unit (BFU) vs Force Multiplication unit (FMU). A BFU is a unit that is just mainly offense. A FMU is one that helps to make the army better. The Harridan is basically a BFU. He is a gunboat who is hard to shoot down. The HBT is both a BFU and a FMU. He is pure offense. At the same time, he helps to make the army better. You've heard of the venom-in-a-box? Well, now you've got a venom-in-a-monster. Put venomthrope in a HBT and now you've got a huge (and very mobile) hub of Shrouding. Any friendly Tyranid flyers near him will be getting 2+ cover if they jink. Put a Zoanthrope with Dominion in there and now you've got a massive hub of Synapse. Or if he gets Psychic Scream, then you can affect many more units due to the large footprint of the HBT. You can even cast it while the HBT is locked in Assault for even more carnage to the enemy! Put troops in there and they are now protected until they disembark to go grab the objectives. From my experience, a good FMU is usually more important to the army than any single BFU. Well, the HBT is better than just any FMU. It is both a BFU and a FMU!


Now what are the Harridan's advantages over the HBT?

1. He is a flyer. That makes him harder to kill for most armies. It also means he has better mobility.

2. He is cheaper. You can build a better supporting cast around the Harridan than you can around the HBT.


Unfortunately, the HBT can only take 1 upgrade, so you need to pay attention to your meta when building your lists. If your meta is infantry-heavy, then consider the barrage or the hellstorm builds. If your meta includes a lot of flyers, take the skyfire option. If your meta has a lot of Imperial Knights/deathstars or if it is assault-heavy, then give your HBT the incendiary option. But for a general all-purpose HBT, the transport option is probably the best one to have around as it allows you so many tactical options.

 xttz wrote:

 jy2 wrote:


Swarm Incubation Chamber A+

This upgrade lets the HBT transport 20 models. Now the great thing about Apocalypse transports is that you can actually transport more than 1 unit! That means the bio-titan can transport a venomthrope, a zoanthrope and some troops as well!

The wording for the Hierophant upgrade is as follows:

The Hierophant Bio-titan gains a Transport capacity of 20 models, and friendly units chosen from Codex: Tyranids may embark and disembark from it as though it was a Vehicle with the Transport type and Assault Vehicle special rule

Interpreted as RAW, it has to be treated like a regular vehicle rather than a super-heavy, so it can only carry a single unit. It would probably be fine in casual games, but for a tournament setting I'd be prepared for this to be challenged. Probably best not to write a list around the rule just in case - join a Prime to the Venomthrope instead if you want to do an aura thing.

That is a good point. Normally, super-heavy transports can carry multiple units. However, it doesn't appear to say that the GC acts as a super-heavy transport.

To be on the safe side, I will edit my tactica to reflect this.

 jy2 wrote:

That is a good point. Normally, super-heavy transports can carry multiple units. However, it doesn't appear to say that the GC acts as a super-heavy transport.

To be on the safe side, I will edit my tactica to reflect this.

I'm just thinking... as a corollary to this, if the Hierophant dies the passengers inside will only take an S4 hit rather than the S10 hit that super-heavy passengers take. This makes it very easy to protect the unit inside. What you could do is designate a Prime as your warlord and simply keep it inside the Hierophant all game (along with a Venomthrope). It then becomes incredibly hard for your opponent to earn Slay the Warlord or any tactical objectives relating to him, while in the meantime you get the Shrouded and Synapse auras.

 xttz wrote:

 jy2 wrote:

That is a good point. Normally, super-heavy transports can carry multiple units. However, it doesn't appear to say that the GC acts as a super-heavy transport.

To be on the safe side, I will edit my tactica to reflect this.

I'm just thinking... as a corollary to this, if the Hierophant dies the passengers inside will only take an S4 hit rather than the S10 hit that super-heavy passengers take. This makes it very easy to protect the unit inside. What you could do is designate a Prime as your warlord and simply keep it inside the Hierophant all game (along with a Venomthrope). It then becomes incredibly hard for your opponent to earn Slay the Warlord or any tactical objectives relating to him, while in the meantime you get the Shrouded and Synapse auras.

Why would passengers inside take damage if the HBT dies? It is not a super-heavy vehicle and you cannot "explode" a HBT. I would play it as the passengers are just forced to disembark and take a pinning check if they aren't Fearless.

But the Prime + Venom inside sounds like a good idea, though I would have to weigh it very carefully because that would be 1 less flyrant I could take.

They are nice and what Nids need, I just don't see people rushing out to acquire them (legitly, that is) or the general allowance of them in a game.

The little guys, hierodules, are ugly as sin. I wish they'd bring back the FW Trygon as it was much cooler. Make the prime a GC variant and it might be worth its points.

I'd love to have a reason to work on my Revenant Titan, I just don't see LoW taking off.

Just played my 1850 Hierophant list against a tournament bike list and it was over by turn 3, he just couldnt bring it down even with his infiltrate alpha.

I was using the Venomthrope cargo variant.

I have been list building since January and have yet to settle on one I actually enjoy; so frustrating ><

I've come to settle as 3 Mawlocs as my mobile scoring, any tips on their use?

Anyone else though much on the implications of the ANY character can now be Warlord, not just HQ Characters. And if there are no characters in your list, then any model can be warlord.

I don't see where characters or IC have the precision shot / strike USR. Looks like dakka flyrants won't be sniping models anymore.

 TheKbob wrote:
They are nice and what Nids need, I just don't see people rushing out to acquire them (legitly, that is) or the general allowance of them in a game.

The little guys, hierodules, are ugly as sin. I wish they'd bring back the FW Trygon as it was much cooler. Make the prime a GC variant and it might be worth its points.

I'd love to have a reason to work on my Revenant Titan, I just don't see LoW taking off.

LoW will always be a minority representation in tournament play. You probably won't see them go mainstream for a while (as in years). You will perhaps see them in specialized LoW events/smaller tourneys. Don't get them because you are expecting to use them in tournament play. Rather, get them because you like the models and your friends don't mind running LoW's in narrative settings/games.

The Barbed Hierodule is kinda ugly IMO but wthe Scythed Hierodule actually looks pretty cool. Then again, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

 Iechine wrote:
Just played my 1850 Hierophant list against a tournament bike list and it was over by turn 3, he just couldnt bring it down even with his infiltrate alpha.

I was using the Venomthrope cargo variant.

Was he running grav-bikers? I believe currently, grav-guns are a weakness of the Tyranid GC's. Against the HBT, they should be wounding it on 2+'s unless you guys house-rule it otherwise.

omerakk wrote:
I have been list building since January and have yet to settle on one I actually enjoy; so frustrating ><

Post your list here if you want feedback from the Tyranid players.

Razerous wrote:
I've come to settle as 3 Mawlocs as my mobile scoring, any tips on their use?

I wouldn't recommend running 3. That is kinda over-kill, just like running 3 heldrakes or 3 wraithknights. 2 is the most that I will go with. Then add other units to give the list more versatility.

I prefer to reserve my mawlocs for a chance for them to come in on T2. Then again, I usually run a bastion with Comms. Whatever you do, usually you would want to burrow them again on T4 so that they can pop back up onto an objective on T5 (unless they are already on an objective).

barnowl wrote:
Anyone else though much on the implications of the ANY character can now be Warlord, not just HQ Characters. And if there are no characters in your list, then any model can be warlord.

For me, the dakka flyrants are just too good. I don't see anyone else worthy enough to replace them as my HQ's. But whatever you do, make sure your WL is durable. Making a Broodlord in a unit of 5 genestealers is not my idea of durable.

 wyomingfox wrote:
I don't see where characters or IC have the precision shot / strike USR. Looks like dakka flyrants won't be sniping models anymore.

Yeah, it looks like they took those rules away from characters. Bummer.

 Iechine wrote:
Just played my 1850 Hierophant list against a tournament bike list and it was over by turn 3, he just couldnt bring it down even with his infiltrate alpha.

I was using the Venomthrope cargo variant.

I'm guessing he was not running Grav spam? If he was how did you counter? Otherwise, its nice to know that Nids can compete, at least some of the time.

 jy2 wrote:

barnowl wrote:
Anyone else though much on the implications of the ANY character can now be Warlord, not just HQ Characters. And if there are no characters in your list, then any model can be warlord.

For me, the dakka flyrants are just too good. I don't see anyone else worthy enough to replace them as my HQ's. But whatever you do, make sure your WL is durable. Making a Broodlord in a unit of 5 genestealers is not my idea of durable.

Kinda thinking running a Character free list and making the Tyrannofex a Warlord. I could also see running Character free and making one of our GC's the Warlord for a true Lord of War

Only characters gain access to warlord traits though. A non-character warlord will end up traitless.

barnowl wrote:
Anyone else though much on the implications of the ANY character can now be Warlord, not just HQ Characters. And if there are no characters in your list, then any model can be warlord.

Make a Spore Mine your Warlord
trollface.jpeg

jy2 wrote:
Was he running grav-bikers? I believe currently, grav-guns are a weakness of the Tyranid GC's. Against the HBT, they should be wounding it on 2+'s unless you guys house-rule it otherwise.

It was an all Ravenwing bike list plus the vehicle granting shroud (I forget the name). Turn 1 he was infiltrated right up on the Hierophant, and at turn 3 he was down to 1 wound after his round of shooting/assault after I regenerated 2. However, minus a Zoanthrope
and a 11 termagant brood, I was still full force. Had I brought the Hellstorm template variant, the game would have been over much sooner.

pinecone77 wrote:

 Iechine wrote:
Just played my 1850 Hierophant list against a tournament bike list and it was over by turn 3, he just couldnt bring it down even with his infiltrate alpha.

I was using the Venomthrope cargo variant.

I'm guessing he was not running Grav spam? If he was how did you counter? Otherwise, its nice to know that Nids can compete, at least some of the time.

Grav spam would have sucked, but it would also have been tailored most likely. Now the trick is getting Hierophants in tournament play.

 wyomingfox wrote:
Only characters gain access to warlord traits though. A non-character warlord will end up traitless.

That's a downside for sure - but a T. Fex would make stay the warlord hard to obtain.

Of course that means you're not using any flyrants or tyrants In your list, which might hurt more in the long game.

On Friday I got to play a heavy armor blood angles list with 2 super scoring Land Raiders. Here is a little batrep. Most of you probably don't care about the play by play, but you might want to check out the final analysis at the end.

My List


His List:


Mission Specs.


Deployment:


Psychic powers:


Turn 1:

Turn 2:

Turn 3:


Turn 4:


Turn 5:


Final Analysis:
I lost 10 - 13.
The game was a slugfest. At the end the forces looked like this:
My Opponent has: 3 marines in assault with a Tervigon. 1 Land Raider with 1 HP. 1 Land Raider with 2 HP. 1 Storm Raven with 2 HP.
I have. A Tervigon with 5 wounds. 2 Carnifexes each with 1 wound. A full wound flyrant, a crone with 2 wounds and no missiles, 4 Toxic HGaunts, and a venomthrope.

The super scoring Land Raiders allowed him to rack up Tac Card Points in a way that was hard to match. He did savy maneuvering to keep my anti-tank from being able to do anything. I was able to cause damage, but not enough, and not fast enough. It takes 4 turns to get carnifexes into assault, and 2 full assaults with 2 carnifexes didn't kill a single land raider.

Still I made many mistakes, and did some crap rolling when it mattered (7 Rolls, and I didn't get Catalyst or Warp Lance once!, I only made 1 3+ save the entire game!, A dakka flyrant only took 1 HP off a storm raven).

The game is winnable. We aren't going to be killing land Raiders very often, but we can kill everything else. Land Raiders are such a huge points sink that we can use MSU tactics to beat them on the Tac cards. I think Drop pods are much more of a problem. Despite only killing 2 things, I was impressed with my Poison HGaunts.

 wyomingfox wrote:
Only characters gain access to warlord traits though. A non-character warlord will end up traitless.

I can't think of a time the 'nid trait or even book trait has been actually useful for me, so not a lose to me.

So the wife and I are about to start a 'campaign', and while this isnt exactly tyranid tactics this has kind of become a be all thread. I'd like feedback on the current ruleset I've got going. Right now to make it interesting we are going to use NON battleforged lists.



Do the missions sound balanced for both sides?

tag8833 wrote:
Still I made many mistakes, and did some crap rolling when it mattered (7 Rolls, and I didn't get Catalyst or Warp Lance once!

With that list you should expect to not have Catalyst every 1 out of 4 games by my calculations.

Good battle report, it really shows how you can use a modified version of the Tactical Objectives to lessen the impact of really durable Objective Secured units that aren't quite that mobile.

 PrinceRaven wrote:

tag8833 wrote:
Still I made many mistakes, and did some crap rolling when it mattered (7 Rolls, and I didn't get Catalyst or Warp Lance once!

With that list you should expect to not have Catalyst every 1 out of 4 games by my calculations.

I figure I get Catalyst 75% of the time, Warp lance on a flyrant 55% of the time, and "Master of Ambush" 30% of the time. So I will get 1 of the 3 about 92% of the time. If I had any one of the 3 in this game, I think I would have won it.

 PrinceRaven wrote:
Good battle report, it really shows how you can use a modified version of the Tactical Objectives to lessen the impact of really durable Objective Secured units that aren't quite that mobile.

Thanks, We used the mission Straight from the book. #4 I think. No intentional modifications.

Ah, my mistake, I thought you were discarding any non-Secure Objective X cards you drew, rather than 1 per turn.

It seems to me that the Tactical Objectives work well if you only include "Secure Objective X" cards, but as you add more the game becomes increasingly random and is decided more on who drew the easiest to score cards than list building or player skill.

 PrinceRaven wrote:
Ah, my mistake, I thought you were discarding any non-Secure Objective X cards you drew, rather than 1 per turn.

It seems to me that the Tactical Objectives work well if you only include "Secure Objective X" cards, but as you add more the game becomes increasingly random and is decided more on who drew the easiest to score cards than list building or player skill.

The Cards have been rather devisive in my gaming group. I absolutely love them, because it makes me feel less worried about overwhelming my opponents with flyers or Mawlocs. After playing with them once, I proposed a house rule that you could immediately discard any card that were impossible to achieve. For instance "Manifest a psycic" power if you have no psychers. This helps to deal with your concern of random imbalance. Everyone in my group was quick to agree. But after a few games, some players started to blame the cards for their defeats. Warranted or not. One of the more fluffy players is refusing to play them because they interfere with competitive play. Nobody likes my proposed house rule any more because "You have an army that excels at mobility and scoring (HA!), and thus you don't need any more advantages by house ruling the cards" I find this largely amusing, and hope that everyone gives the cards a serious look. before banning them. Because immobile gunline was the preferred way to play 40k in my meta, I worry that there will be pressure to do away with the cards. Personally I don't find gunline fun to play or fun to play against, so any change that makes everybody participate in the movement phase and not just the shooting phase of the game will make me happy.

The double Landraider list I played against was essentially a meta-busting list built to deal with gunlines.

Recius of Frontline gaming had a great suggestion to improve the case of objective being placed too close to one player or the other. His suggestion is 3 Objects (1-2, 3-4, 5-6) places 1/2 between deployment zones, and then giving each player a chance to "Mulligan" their first draw, in which case they would be stuck with their second.

Some of the randomness is actually "fun" in a way that isn't necessarily competitive. For instance, I had a game that came down to rolling 5+ on a run move for a Biovore. That is a pretty damn fun game right there, even though I lost.

Anways, back on the topic of tyranids. I finished green highlights on 10 Hormagaunts, 28 Devourer Termagaunts, 45 Fleshborer Termagaunts, 40 Spinefist Termagaunts, 8 Magnetized Warriors, and 11 Raveners tonight. Grey, and then Red highlights, and they can be gloss coated, and I will have all of my gants finally painted.

In 7th I've decided taking AG on Mawlocs every time. Not only are Mawlocs the most likely MC in the dex to get a shot at charging a tank in combat, but it helps the chances of getting there and let's them put avg 3 plasma shots into a vehicles rear armour, useful.


Sidenote, does anyone else find it funny how full of Narrative the Trygon is right now? He was such a boss in the last codex he could throw down with anything like a spammable mini-Swarmlord, but now he's pure janitor mode. Just like the Swarmnoob too I guess. Trygon is probably worse though, he's a 100pt model, at 200pts.

 jy2 wrote:

Now with 8 S10 attacks (9 on the charge), he'll most likely do some damage.

Just as one minor nitpick, the Hierophant actually has 9 attacks base and 10 on the charge, as it gets +1 attack for having 2 close combat weapons (Lash Whips and Scything Talons).

 Strat_N8 wrote:

 jy2 wrote:

Now with 8 S10 attacks (9 on the charge), he'll most likely do some damage.

Just as one minor nitpick, the Hierophant actually has 9 attacks base and 10 on the charge, as it gets +1 attack for having 2 close combat weapons (Lash Whips and Scything Talons).

I... didn't though of that.