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2014/06/07 08:12:28
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (LoW Tactica p. 118)
I had a fun campaign game tonight, against the Blood Angels player that favors Land Raiders. Our campaign put several dramatic restrictions on our lists:
-The only HQ allowed was The Swarmlord for me, and Mephiston for him.
-Only 1 Combined arms detachment, no formations.
-1500 points
That led to an interesting clash of concepts. I ran MSU Tyranids, and my opponent did a heavy armor list. We were using the Maelstrom of War missions, and so my MSU approach won out.
10 man Tac squad (Flamer, Combi-flamer, combat Squaded)
in a Land Raider Crusader (multi-metla)
5 man Tac squad (Flamer)
in a Razorback (Assault Cannon)
Stormraven (multi-melta)
Battle Highlights:
Spoiler:
I went first. On turn 1 my Crone fired 2 missiles at a Dreadnaught. 1 hit. 6 to Pen. 6 on pen table. Imobilized!
His turn 1, the same dreadnaught periled and lost a 2nd HP.
On my turn 2 having failed to do anything with a crone vector strike I got side armor on that dreadnaught with 1 Shrike. 1 hit, 6 to glance. Dead!
I failed to cast catalyst on 3 dice, 3 turns in a row.
I failed or was denied every psychic power on turn 2, and all but 1 on turn 3 (Warp lance which missed).
Stupid Corbolo can eat a lot of TL-Devourer shots. 3+ and FNP (2+)
Rippers got ID'd by an assault cannon the turn they arrived. They are not good. I would rather have Gaunts.
I gave furious charge to a Carnifex. 3 Hammer of Wrath + 4 attacks = no damage to Land Raider.
I shot a Carnifex at the Razor back. 12 shots 10 hits no glances or pens. Failed a 5" charged.
I charged Mephiston and Corbolo with a Carnifex and the Swarmlord. Mephiston did 3 wounds to the carnifex, and then the Swarmlord (with preferred enemy) rolled 5 2's and 1 4 to hit, and 1 6 to wound, and ID'd Mephiston. Then the Carnifex took care of Corbolo. Netted me 4 points and an insurmountable lead.
The psychic Shriek is bad for Gaunts and Gargoyles.
I gave Swarmlord and his 2 Guard furious charge and charged a Dread with 2 HP left. They did one Pen and destroyed its stormbolter. Swarmy Tanked the return fire, and only failed 1 invul. Next turn failed to take final HP, and the dread put ID on itself, so both guard had to die for swarmy. Next turn, swarmy takes it down with a smash.
My Crone failed to damage anything on its 3 vector strikes of the game. But did Pen the Razorback, and blow off its assault cannon.
I denied Iron Arm every single turn.
Takaways:
1) MSU works, especially when using Tac Cards.
2) Rippers still suck. Take gaunts instead.
3) Objective secured Land Raiders are stupid.
4) Joining ICs to Mephiston is powerful.
5) The Swarmlord, despite being stupidly overcosted can still get it done once in a while.
6) Shrikes! Shrikes! Shrikes!. They scored a lot of objectives for me. Way more mobile than warriors. Only reason to ever take warriors again is FOC is full of Fast, or they are needed for a formation.
Final thoughts:
By the rules of the campaign, I can't use Zoenthropes in my next battle. I'm thinking I will try for Ductvader's Turn 2 Tsunami list provided I don't get matched up with a Land Raider spammer again.
2014/06/07 08:32:17
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (LoW Tactica p. 118)
My god the Swarmlord sucks. Yeah he can "get it done once it a while", but at a ridiculous cost, and even then only just.
Other points I agree with. Rippers are overrated, LR's are going to be stupid v us every game, Mephiston units can get silly, and Shrikes are way better than Warriors. However, Warriors are only useful because they fill out a mandatory troop slot and give Synapse to the other one, or because they unlock Living Artillery formation.
Looks like you rolled some seriously bad luck though.
P.S.A. I won't read your posts if you break it into a million separate quotes and make an eyesore of it.
2014/06/07 14:55:43
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (LoW Tactica p. 118)
I disagree, the appeal of rippers is that they don't need synapse and can deep strike, making them good for Flying lists. In your list were all moved together, gaunts are better.
2014/06/07 17:15:58
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (LoW Tactica p. 118)
3 Tyrant/Hive Guard (new plastic - on sprue and all) - to become Hive Guard
2 Finecast Hive Guard
2 metal Tyrant Guard (which I will be giving crushing claws)
3 Zoanthropes (Now I have 7 )
The resin twin bonesword and lash whip & bonesword weapon sets
3 more pairs of FW Shrike wings.
This is all adding to my apocalypse formations and options.
Tempted to use the weapon kits and convert some old metal Hive Tyrants to Primes with them...
Now only a CSM player.
2014/06/08 03:58:17
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (LoW Tactica p. 118)
Tyran wrote: I disagree, the appeal of rippers is that they don't need synapse and can deep strike, making them good for Flying lists. In your list were all moved together, gaunts are better.
I deep struck the Rippers onto my opponent's backfield objective. They scattered 8". They ran 4". My opponent, recognizing my desire to take that objective use POTMS to insta kill them with an assault cannon from the Land Raider. Not every army has S8 to spare for insta killing warriors, but every single army is going to have divertible S6 or S7 shooting to insta kill rippers. In that way they might as well be 3 wounds instead of 9 in a min squad. The same cost will get you 10 Gaunts.
SHUPPET wrote: My god the Swarmlord sucks. Yeah he can "get it done once it a while", but at a ridiculous cost, and even then only just.
The fascinating thing was The Swarmlord + 2 Tyrant guard made their points back and then some. Their kill count looked like this.
5 man Tac Squad w/ Flamer and Combi Flamer.
Mephiston
Furioso Librian
for a total of 525 points.
He also scored 4 points for Warlord, 1 Point for issuing a challenge, 1 Point for controlling an objective and 1 point for killing a unit in assault.
A Flying Hive tyrant could have made his points, but wouldn't have scored the Tactical cards. Also, a Flying Hive Tyrant would have had no answer to Mephiston, and Brother Corbolo, who's 3+/2++ could eat an insane amount of dakka. I'm not arguing that the Swarmlord is better than a Flying Hive Tyrant most of the time, but in this matchup he was.
2014/06/08 04:05:43
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (LoW Tactica p. 118)
Tyran wrote: I disagree, the appeal of rippers is that they don't need synapse and can deep strike, making them good for Flying lists. In your list were all moved together, gaunts are better.
I deep struck the Rippers onto my opponent's backfield objective. They scattered 8". They ran 4". My opponent, recognizing my desire to take that objective use POTMS to insta kill them with an assault cannon from the Land Raider. Not every army has S8 to spare for insta killing warriors, but every single army is going to have divertible S6 or S7 shooting to insta kill rippers. In that way they might as well be 3 wounds instead of 9 in a min squad. The same cost will get you 10 Gaunts.
The problem with Gaunts is that you need someone to babysit them. Rippers are for that objectives in the corners of the map where no one is close to. For more contested objectives you use Skyblight Gargoyles.
2014/06/08 04:09:31
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (LoW Tactica p. 118)
rollawaythestone wrote: Am I the only one not playing Skyblight because I don't want to buy three Crones/Harpies?
I have the models (well, my own self made Crones and Harpies counts-as) and just haven't been interested so far in playing the most stock standard boring flyer spam list ever. I made Crones because they were useful outside of Skyblight last edition. Now they are trash I don't know what to do, probably still field them occasionally because they look cool and I put a fair bit of work to them, I might just have to field Skyblight to bring in the airforce However I don't like the idea of +1000 points of your list already being written for you, taken for the sole advantage of opening up extra slots to fit even more FMC's in, and that's FMC's that arent really all that great outside of just spamming flyers to abuse the "hard-to-hit" rule for silly cheese. Respawning Gargs are cool though. I think I'll just run 1 Flyrant + 3 Mawlocs + Skyblight so I can field all my models without relying on a crutch to win. Sucks the fun out of it imo.
P.S.A. I won't read your posts if you break it into a million separate quotes and make an eyesore of it.
2014/06/08 04:27:24
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (LoW Tactica p. 118)
rollawaythestone wrote: Am I the only one not playing Skyblight because I don't want to buy three Crones/Harpies?
My Nids are shelved this edition because I don't want to drop all that money on Hive Crones and Gargoyles to have a chance.
Ailaros wrote: You know what really bugs me? When my opponent, before they show up at the FLGS smears themselves in peanut butter and then makes blood sacrifices to Ashterai by slitting the throat of three male chickens and then smears the spatter pattern into the peanut butter to engrave sacred symbols into their chest and upper arms.
I have a peanut allergy. It's really inconsiderate.
"Long ago in a distant land, I, M'kar, the shape-shifting Master of Chaos, unleashed an unspeakable evil! But a foolish Grey Knight warrior wielding a magic sword stepped forth to oppose me. Before the final blow was struck, I tore open a portal in space and flung him into the Warp, where my evil is law! Now the fool seeks to return to real-space, and undo the evil that is Chaos!"
2014/06/08 04:40:05
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (LoW Tactica p. 118)
My meta is filled with Tau, Eldar, new Guard, Space Marines, and Imperial Knights.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/06/08 04:43:10
Ailaros wrote: You know what really bugs me? When my opponent, before they show up at the FLGS smears themselves in peanut butter and then makes blood sacrifices to Ashterai by slitting the throat of three male chickens and then smears the spatter pattern into the peanut butter to engrave sacred symbols into their chest and upper arms.
I have a peanut allergy. It's really inconsiderate.
"Long ago in a distant land, I, M'kar, the shape-shifting Master of Chaos, unleashed an unspeakable evil! But a foolish Grey Knight warrior wielding a magic sword stepped forth to oppose me. Before the final blow was struck, I tore open a portal in space and flung him into the Warp, where my evil is law! Now the fool seeks to return to real-space, and undo the evil that is Chaos!"
2014/06/08 04:43:54
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (LoW Tactica p. 118)
You know what I used to run?
I ran a heavy reserves list with lots of Mycetic Spores, the Doom of Malan'tai and Ymgarl Genestealers.
It wasn't very competitive and only had a single Tervigon, (outflanking of course) but I loved that list and they RUINED IT!
*breaks down sobbing in a corner*
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/06/08 04:53:46
Ailaros wrote: You know what really bugs me? When my opponent, before they show up at the FLGS smears themselves in peanut butter and then makes blood sacrifices to Ashterai by slitting the throat of three male chickens and then smears the spatter pattern into the peanut butter to engrave sacred symbols into their chest and upper arms.
I have a peanut allergy. It's really inconsiderate.
"Long ago in a distant land, I, M'kar, the shape-shifting Master of Chaos, unleashed an unspeakable evil! But a foolish Grey Knight warrior wielding a magic sword stepped forth to oppose me. Before the final blow was struck, I tore open a portal in space and flung him into the Warp, where my evil is law! Now the fool seeks to return to real-space, and undo the evil that is Chaos!"
2014/06/08 04:56:45
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (LoW Tactica p. 118)
Just wait another 5 years or so for the next Nid codex, when GW will need to add some Cool New Models for us all to buy - some old timer will reminisce about Spore pods and everyone will say "hey, what an original idea"
2014/06/08 04:58:46
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (LoW Tactica p. 118)
Drop podding in Zoanthropes is no longer viable as it just bumps up the price by a 1/3 on an already seriously unreliable unit that just got even more unreliable.
No more Doom to come in the pod either.
Drop podding in Devilgants is ok I guess but a squad of 20 no longer unlocks a Tervigon to give them all TS and AG when he gets in Synapse range (hopefully the next turn). In fact even if it did unlock one it can no longer do that. On top of that, no more Preferred Enemy bubbles on Flyrants kinda sucks too. I think you may be better off just outflanking them for 15 points cheaper and letting you take 30. Not that this is particularly great without PEimo compared to all the amazing anti-infantry we have now.
Venomthropes in pods would be somewhat worthy however. Especially coming down the same turn as Lictors / Deathleaper, providing cover with the Spore body and giving them both a 3+cover save outside of Synapse range.
I think it probably wouldn't do as much stuff as you think, however triple deep-striking Dakkafex would be a pretty solid use of the HS slot for 190 pts each. However I think Trygons in the last dex were still probably better and did a similar thing, except bulkier.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
PrinceRaven wrote: You know what I used to run?
I ran a heavy reserves list with lots of Mycetic Spores, the Doom of Malan'tai and Ymgarl Genestealers.
It wasn't very competitive and only had a single Tervigon, (outflanking of course) but I loved that list and they RUINED IT!
*breaks down sobbing in a corner*
Me too, Trygons were so boss with 6th Smash and proper ScyTals, you could run them into just about anything.
I gave my Tervigon Crushing Claws and 3 Biomancy powers. For proper havoc Get up to 7 smash attacks with Warp Speed lol
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/06/08 05:03:00
P.S.A. I won't read your posts if you break it into a million separate quotes and make an eyesore of it.
2014/06/08 12:26:35
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (LoW Tactica p. 118)
This is Combined arms of course to get the zoans seperate for max WC. I generally roll enough onslaught and psychic scream/horror to decimate opponents and the odd catalyst does not hurt. Also the strategic table is nuts. In the game that I rolled Ambush it was over quick.
My experience with both the rippers and shrikes are a bit different than Tag's. I did not mind the DSing rippers myself - cheap at 45 pts. The shrikes were good but my carnis and exocrines were the MVPs.
I can see combined arms being banned from tournaments, lol.
2014/06/08 12:37:11
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (LoW Tactica p. 118)
I love endless swarm, but them not being objective secured killed it for me. I'm now thinking of running a double FOCMSU list with no monstrous creatures (i just don't like the models, tyrants included).
2014/06/08 14:11:16
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (LoW Tactica p. 118)
This is Combined arms of course to get the zoans seperate for max WC. I generally roll enough onslaught and psychic scream/horror to decimate opponents and the odd catalyst does not hurt. Also the strategic table is nuts. In the game that I rolled Ambush it was over quick.
My experience with both the rippers and shrikes are a bit different than Tag's. I did not mind the DSing rippers myself - cheap at 45 pts. The shrikes were good but my carnis and exocrines were the MVPs.
I can see combined arms being banned from tournaments, lol.
Top notch list, one of the best 7th ones I've seen IMO.
Yes Master of Ambush is going to win you every game you get it with this list, absolutely brutal. 6 Zoans is a great way to secure onslaughts to hammertime turn 1 otherwise. I'm going to have to consider dual detachments for my Zoeys, the trade off for doing it this way however is literally the points for an AG Mawloc and a full Biovore squad, allowing you to turn the Shrikes into Warriors and turning the Exocrine into the Living Artillery formation giving you twin-linked and pinning, and JUST allowing you to fit it all in the FOC.
I'm definitely going to give this one a try tho, Onslaught is just that strong.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Spoletta wrote: I love endless swarm, but them not being objective secured killed it for me. I'm now thinking of running a double FOCMSU list with no monstrous creatures (i just don't like the models, tyrants included).
Lol if you don't like any of the monstrous creature models you picked the wrong army bro that's like more than half the codex lol
Although I can see the attraction to taking nothing but 300 zerg kings. What's your HQs gunna be, Tyranid Primes lol?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/06/08 14:14:41
P.S.A. I won't read your posts if you break it into a million separate quotes and make an eyesore of it.
2014/06/08 14:40:38
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (LoW Tactica p. 118)
This is Combined arms of course to get the zoans seperate for max WC. I generally roll enough onslaught and psychic scream/horror to decimate opponents and the odd catalyst does not hurt. Also the strategic table is nuts. In the game that I rolled Ambush it was over quick.
My experience with both the rippers and shrikes are a bit different than Tag's. I did not mind the DSing rippers myself - cheap at 45 pts. The shrikes were good but my carnis and exocrines were the MVPs.
I can see combined arms being banned from tournaments, lol.
Glad to hear it. How was it vs Heavy Armor? Or did you not see much?
The will of the hive is always the same: HUNGER
2014/06/08 15:55:30
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (LoW Tactica p. 118)
Spoletta wrote: 1 Prime for a FOC and Deathleeper for the other one
And yes i totally do it for the gaunts.
So how many models do your run at 1850? 200? 250?
You can take about 50 Termagants + 50 Hormagants + 100 AG+TS Hormagaunts iif he just runs Prime and Deathleaper and still have some points left over for a few Venomthropes. I think this is probably the best way to do it, from turn 2-3 onwards everything is just going to be swamped in combat so there will be no point in taking too many guns. It's auto-lose to anything with Armor 11 though. But so is anything Tyranid without MC's, doesn't matter how you slice it. Lictors can glance up to AV12 I Guess. But I certainly wouldn't take them for this, I can't help but think it just needs some Carnifexes to stop it from being game over before it begins against so many list :( But meh if he hates the models he hates the models. Don't understand how anyone can think a Carnifex with 4 ScyTals looks bad tho !
P.S.A. I won't read your posts if you break it into a million separate quotes and make an eyesore of it.
2014/06/08 16:02:08
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (LoW Tactica p. 118)
The first list like this was made in 6E with endless swarm and had over 200 models. Now i'm running something more balanced to deal with at least AV10 rear and a single occurence of high AV.
Mainly it is:
Loads of vanilla gaunts and tgants
A bio bomb formation
A prime with reaper + ST and Ymgarl genes (the only possible answer to durable stuff)
Deathleaper
Min of rending raveners with red terror
Min of rending venon warriors with SC Min of rending venom shrikes with SC 3 x1 venom
3x1 zoan.
More of a fluff fun TAC list to play in non competitive settings. I found that i like mid size nids just as much as gaunts, especially raveners and warriors.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/06/08 16:06:00
2014/06/08 16:16:51
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (LoW Tactica p. 118)
Haha...dropped my Hierophant off for a CB painting competition yesterday and noticed his front right leg felt 'off'. He had been standing on his own for well over a week now with no issues, so I just took note of it. Today they posted a pic of the final group of entries...notice anything about my big bug?
So much shaaaame. :( I wish they had just taken him out/forfeit him than take a FB of him. Sometimes you just have to be able to laugh. :(
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/06/08 18:31:07
)
too soon man too soon
How was it vs Heavy Armor? Or did you not see much? 
