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I bet it was the model next to him... it ran up, and smacked him in the leg with it's axe while no one was looking

Hard luck that it couldn't hang in there. It's a shame because that big guy draws your eye really well in that cabinet.

 Iechine wrote:
Haha...dropped my Hierophant off for a CB painting competition yesterday and noticed his front right leg felt 'off'. He had been standing on his own for well over a week now with no issues, so I just took note of it. Today they posted a pic of the final group of entries...notice anything about my big bug?

Spoiler:

So much shaaaame. :( I wish they had just taken him out/forfeit him than take a FB of him. Sometimes you just have to be able to laugh. :(

Red ones go faster?

 SHUPPET wrote:

tag8833 wrote:

Spoletta wrote:
1 Prime for a FOC and Deathleeper for the other one

And yes i totally do it for the gaunts.

So how many models do your run at 1850? 200? 250?

You can take about 50 Termagants + 50 Hormagants + 100 AG+TS Hormagaunts iif he just runs Prime and Deathleaper and still have some points left over for a few Venomthropes.

My instincts tell me that you should never run AG+TS gaunts in 7th. In 6th it made sense, because you got to reroll wounds. But with the change to the poison rule in 7th it seems like gaunts should have one upgrade or the other to avoid them being too much of a points sink.

I think a decent no-MC army could look like this:

Wow foirgot about the poison changes, yeah taking AG on Hormagants is a terrible idea.

I prefer AG over toxin sacs on horms.

-can glance av10 on 6+ (on the charge)
-wounds MEQ on a 4+ (on the charge)
-poison re-rolls nerfed
-1 ppm cheaper

Ok taking TS is a terrible idea I thought TS was cheaper for some reason.

 SHUPPET wrote:
Ok taking TS is a terrible idea I thought TS was cheaper for some reason.

HGaunts with TS are better in game than on paper. They are MC killers. They drop Wraith Knights and Wraith Lords with ease. Great Unclean one giving you trouble? Not any more. Good against beatstick HQ's. They are ok against MEQ and TEQ as well.

I rarely use AG HGaunts. Every time I've brought them, I've ended up facing a list where they were needed to tarpit something Ithan pop transports. I haven't tried them yet in 7th.

I usually have an answer to vehicles in the form of Flyrants, Crones, and Dakkafexes. So, TS Gaunts help me deal with Wraith Knights and their ilk.

tag8833 wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:
Ok taking TS is a terrible idea I thought TS was cheaper for some reason.

HGaunts with TS are better in game than on paper. They are MC killers. They drop Wraith Knights and Wraith Lords with ease. Great Unclean one giving you trouble? Not any more. Good against beatstick HQ's. They are ok against MEQ and TEQ as well.

I rarely use AG HGaunts. Every time I've brought them, I've ended up facing a list where they were needed to tarpit something Ithan pop transports. I haven't tried them yet in 7th.

I usually have an answer to vehicles in the form of Flyrants, Crones, and Dakkafexes. So, TS Gaunts help me deal with Wraith Knights and their ilk.

It often comes down to what you're likely to see in your gaming group. In mine the only player who regularly uses MCs is me - hence, I get more value from AG horms.

Good points there for reliable AT in the codex, too. I agree with mass s6 shooting in most situations.

So guys, I up and lost myself in my work, and quite frankly, have not been listening to the hive mind very clearly of late. So, having lost my sense of purpose, and with this new edition, I need some help in molding my force into something that I can actually bother to carry to 15k and beyond. As it stands, here is my opinions on the units in the codex, and my general strategies so far; I need some new ideas, as well as ways of salvaging those units that I can't seem to really find a use for.

As some of my closer compatriots know, but most others probably don't, I run assault heavy 'Nids.

The Usable
Swarmlord - My heart of the swarm, mostly just for tossing out some half-cocked buffs every turn.
Tyrant Guard - Ablative wounds for Swarmlord.
Tyranid Prime - Semi Cheap Synapse, but crappy. Decent character hunters.
Deathleaper - Leadership shenanigans, and some decent mid game pressure on his single characters.
Genestealers - Full broods are always fun, but starting to run into issues where they just aren't staying stuck in, and I can't even get MSU onto target without getting focused down.
Termagants - Been running them either stock or as devil's. Pretty much haven't found a decent way to take advantage of their shooting without them getting in the way of my Hormagaunts, ruining the screen.
Hormagaunts - Ultragaunts or bust. So expensive, but they have never steered me wrong.
Ripper Swarms - 15 points for some deep striking fun, but I am having some issues beyond mid game objective contesting or just sitting tight on back objectives. Have been thinking about 25pt Ultraswarms for secondary assault forces; workable?
Zoanthropes - Cheapest way to spam plenty of charges, but is there any decent way to keep the darn things from getting singled out?
Venomthropes - They performed well, but I fall short at every single game. These things can never cover my Hormagaunts past the first turn or two, right when I need it to, when they are easily within enemy rapid fire ranges, right before an assault. Help?
Ravenors - I like the idea, but I run into issues on keeping them cost effective. Also, is it a good idea to have a Red Terror every once in a while?
Gargoyles - Deepstriking termagants keep my friends occupied on something other than their front lines.
Spore Mine Cluster - Used them plenty in the old codex and loved them, but I can't seem to truly grasp the best option for them in this new codex.
Carnifex - Love that cheap melee goodness.
Biovore - Gave me the old spore mines, and seem like they are still decent artillery. They just tend to sit there and get forgot about though.
Mawloc - Looks good, but what are his odds of making it to the next turn once he breaks the surface?


The Unusable
Hive Tyrant - Yea.. I can't justify the point cost for 2 warp charges or decent melee capability.
Old One Eye - Looks like a decent tank, but as a warlord, I can't figure out a decent way to get him into some good killing grounds without getting picked off early by anti-tank.
Tervigon - So, seems likely to go menopausal on me fairly fast, and horrible warp charge for the points. Can't even think of a good way to use it for melee.
Tyranid Warriors- I converted them to Primes. I can't even think of a decent reason for picking up a couple more boxes.
Hive Guard - Can these things really do much good against Landraiders? Doesn't seem like it, and I have 3 that I have a big problem with.
Lictors - These things work as a distraction, but never seem to do as much as I hope. Any ideas for what I should aim at?
Haruspex - It's a big guy, but I don't see these doing well enough to justify the price tag.
Pyrovore - Yea... I gave up when I turned the chalk board into a dry erase board and then turned it back into a chalk board with crappy ideas.
Shrikes - Deepstriking Warriors, but will they even do well with a nominally melee focus?
Sky Slashers - Too expensive for my walking rippers, but is the jump infantry movement worth it?
Harpy - The closest thing to aircraft in my local meta is a landspeeder.
Hive Crone - The closest thing to aircraft in my local meta is a landspeeder.
Trygon - Expensive, but worth it?
Trygon Prime - Even more expensive, but synaptic. Bargain or bust?
Exocrine - It's a straight shooter, but is it worth both price tags?
Tyrannofex - A big shooter, but I can't seem to justify that lousy armor and price in the face of en-masse plasma weaponry from Dark Angels.

Well, that's all I have. Hopefully some of you guys have some things that might bring me some new life into these models for me.

Now I know your liike assaulty Nids, but the fact is for Nid's to make it to assault they need to be able to put pressure on as well as thin some numbers with shooting. your list is pretty accurate for Tyranids in general, except:

Exocrine is great, having a choice between a S7 AP2 large blast or 6 shots, at BS4 is one of the best gunmen in the dex. He can cover us where we might otherwise have trouble with our shooting, nearly all our gunmen have or high or non-existent AP. And at the end of all of that he is 5 T6 wounds. For 5 points more, he's like a 6 man squad of Plague Marines, except every single one of them gets a Plasma Gun. And then one more. And the option of making it a Large Blast. And the utility to turn that Large Blast Pinning and Re-Rollable (which I'll get to in a sec).

Warriors are good for unlocking formations - most notably the Living Artillery Formation, giving an Exocrine, a 3 Biovores, and their own Venom Cannon, the bonuses of Twin-linked and Pinning. This is big for helping land hits of course, and massive for assault because pinning forces them to go to ground, meaning they can be assaulted at full initiative while in cover. It's not obvious at first that these guys help your assault armies as it's indirectly, but take note that say that full brood of Genestealers who you are paying Space Marine points per model for initiative 6 on? They have no frag grenades. In fact, nothing in the army really does naturally except Lictors, but can be purchased as an upgrade for Carnifexes (who can't use them) and Warriors/Shrikes, who it's very risky to pack upgrades onto since they already tear it up in combat, and have the massive Achilles heel of being insta-deathed by T8.
Shrikes are also worth the mention that they are far better on the table than Warriors, they move at double the speed for the cost of superscoring. However they don't unlock your formations, but are still a great way of fast Synapse + doubling the likelihood of your "Warriors" (who are like better Terminators in assault) making it to combat.

Raveners are bad. Very bad. For the same amount of points, a Shrike does literally everything better including important things like "being jump infantry", and "having Synapse". This is because you can drop your gun for a free pair of ScyTals and even match Raveners for attack. There is no point to Rav's other than the Red Terror, and he's just not worth it.

Swarmlord and Hive Tyrant is the other thing worth mentioning. Swarmy has some good abilitys but costs a ridiculous amount of points. 285 points just isn't worth it for him when you can have two whole Hive Tyrants for 40 points more. Hive Tyrant is amazing though because he can also take wings for superfast mobility (and he brings his Synapse bubble with him), and can take dual BrainLeechDevourers, aka our top shooting unit. 12x S6 twin linked shots. With his mobility and 360 FMC shooting angels he has no problem getting coverfree shots on infantry, and shots on AV10 rear armor. Since he's our best other BS, on average, 11 of his 12 shots hit. That's pretty hardcore. And this is where Exocrine really compliments him for dealing with stuff with an armor save. The better the armor, the more S6 shots are wasted, and Exocrine cares nada about this.


Spore miness aren't that great once you start using them because they either hit 1 in 3 times, or do nothing. No BS to lower the scatter distance either since it's deepstrike. I would say USABLE with the formation that allows you to take 3 squads of Gargoyles and 3 Squads of Spore Mines outside the FOC, and it allows the spore mines to move a full 6" and charge normally, letting them actually catch something if they miss (which most of the time they will ).


Tyrannofex is great at lower points games, equipped with regen he will never die and with Acid Spray is an absolute brick who will carve a line through Xeno's each turn. However if a common opponent for your is DA Plasma Spam he will be much less effective so I can see that Still a good model, worth taking in maximum numbers each time though, they should make up the core of your army if you are running them IMO, 2 at 1000 pts and 3 at 1500 or higher (any higher than 1000 don't bother with Regen as it will rarely be worth it). We are basically a 3+ army and he is our Terminator squad. He's pricy but way better priced than SM terminators. Thorax Swarm gives him two templates a turn. He's a damn good option to have in the codex.

Also, Tyranid Prime is just terrible. For cheaper than his base price you can get 4 Warriors or Shrikes, nuff said. Ridiculously overpriced.

Venomthropes - They performed well, but I fall short at every single game. These things can never cover my Hormagaunts past the first turn or two, right when I need it to, when they are easily within enemy rapid fire ranges, right before an assault. Help?

This is fine man! It's rare that they do. They are only a 45 point unit!! They waste some opponents shots and eat a little bit of fire. Bring 1 every game, it just makes the rest of your force stronger!

Mawloc - Looks good, but what are his odds of making it to the next turn once he breaks the surface?

Low if he's by himself, but that's ok - he's the cheapest source of T6 wounds in the dex! (and possibly the game I believe, even cheaper than Nurgle Bikers). Take them in multiples and some will survive lol. They eat ALOT of firepower for their points regardless, so it's ok in fact a good thing if that's where your opponent is pointing his guns (and they may have to) it means he's doing his role while the rest of your army gets there quicker.



Remember, everything you read is just an opinion (including my own), if you really want think Swarmy is what your list needs, take him. If the reasoning why hes bad makes sense to you, maybe rethink it, you know the deal. I just typed this out with the intention of giving you a second look and possibly some new strategies to play with =)

Obviously, these are you own thoughts and opinions and I respect you for putting them out there like that. I would like to correct a few of your "classifications" that have been pretty universally agreed upon by most Tyranid players.

 Unyielding Hunger wrote:


The Usable
Swarmlord - My heart of the swarm, mostly just for tossing out some half-cocked buffs every turn. Yeah, sorry, this guy got worse for more points. Slow, can't make it to combat effectively. I think most avid Tyranid players would put him in "The unusable"
Tyrant Guard - Ablative wounds for Swarmlord.
Tyranid Prime - Semi Cheap Synapse, but crappy. Decent character hunters.
Deathleaper - Leadership shenanigans, and some decent mid game pressure on his single characters.
Genestealers - Full broods are always fun, but starting to run into issues where they just aren't staying stuck in, and I can't even get MSU onto target without getting focused down. They didn't get better. They just got what they always should have had. Move through cover (granting essentially assault grenades now), but they still crumple to basic troop weaponry. I don't know about you, but even if they make it to combat, you'll lose 3 genestealers before you strike due to overwatch....
Termagants - Been running them either stock or as devil's. Pretty much haven't found a decent way to take advantage of their shooting without them getting in the way of my Hormagaunts, ruining the screen.
Hormagaunts - Ultragaunts or bust. So expensive, but they have never steered me wrong.
Ripper Swarms - 15 points for some deep striking fun, but I am having some issues beyond mid game objective contesting or just sitting tight on back objectives. Have been thinking about 25pt Ultraswarms for secondary assault forces; workable?
Zoanthropes - Cheapest way to spam plenty of charges, but is there any decent way to keep the darn things from getting singled out?
Venomthropes - They performed well, but I fall short at every single game. These things can never cover my Hormagaunts past the first turn or two, right when I need it to, when they are easily within enemy rapid fire ranges, right before an assault. Help?
Ravenors - I like the idea, but I run into issues on keeping them cost effective. Also, is it a good idea to have a Red Terror every once in a while?
Gargoyles - Deepstriking termagants keep my friends occupied on something other than their front lines.
Spore Mine Cluster - Used them plenty in the old codex and loved them, but I can't seem to truly grasp the best option for them in this new codex. These are only good in the form of Biovore misses. I wouldn't waste valuable points on them prior to deployment.
Carnifex - Love that cheap melee goodness.
Biovore - Gave me the old spore mines, and seem like they are still decent artillery. They just tend to sit there and get forgot about though.
Mawloc - Looks good, but what are his odds of making it to the next turn once he breaks the surface?


The Unusable
Hive Tyrant - Yea.. I can't justify the point cost for 2 warp charges or decent melee capability. You are dead wrong here. The only reliable HQ unit that we have (not to mention the most versatile. Wings and Dual Twin linked devourers give you the ability to place SitW just about anywhere in the board (forcing enemy psykers out of position or they risk periling and losing their psyker). The shooting gives you the ability to glance armored units to death, hammer fliers into the ground, or cause ~10 Wounds to any infantry unit.
Old One Eye - Looks like a decent tank, but as a warlord, I can't figure out a decent way to get him into some good killing grounds without getting picked off early by anti-tank.
Tervigon - So, seems likely to go menopausal on me fairly fast, and horrible warp charge for the points. Can't even think of a good way to use it for melee. This one is tough. Yes, it went up in cost (which it should have). MCs got Smash reduced to 1 attack. But with automatic access to dominion and another psychic power (which the Nid ones aren't bad, just don't compare them to the most OP powers out there....here's looking at you Divination.
Tyranid Warriors- I converted them to Primes. I can't even think of a decent reason for picking up a couple more boxes.They're cheap synapse. Before 6.5? edition, they were better. Now since tanks are going to make a comeback, S8 weaponry is going to make it's way back into more lists. I still think that they have a place in some lists.
Hive Guard - Can these things really do much good against Landraiders? Doesn't seem like it, and I have 3 that I have a big problem with.
Lictors - These things work as a distraction, but never seem to do as much as I hope. Any ideas for what I should aim at?
Haruspex - It's a big guy, but I don't see these doing well enough to justify the price tag.
Pyrovore - Yea... I gave up when I turned the chalk board into a dry erase board and then turned it back into a chalk board with crappy ideas.
Shrikes - Deepstriking Warriors, but will they even do well with a nominally melee focus? Now that everything has objective Secured when taken within normal FOC limitations you essentially have scoring warriors that can move 12" a turn. I wouldn't call them "unusable" but they definitely have their niche in our codex.
Sky Slashers - Too expensive for my walking rippers, but is the jump infantry movement worth it?
Harpy - The closest thing to aircraft in my local meta is a landspeeder. Harpies aren't anti air. They are best used as synergistic assault units. Forcing the enemy to -5 initiative on the turn it charges, you can oftentimes assist units that need that initiative advantage in order to swing combat in your favor. If anything, the Harpy got even better only taking 1 grounding test a turn ***If*** it took an unsaved wound.
Hive Crone - The closest thing to aircraft in my local meta is a landspeeder.Hive Crones are still good. They've just changed from our awesome vector striking unit, to an effective counter to AV14 (which Nids struggle with). 4 Haywire shots give you a chance that Nids don't have otherwise at range to damage vehicles.
Trygon - Expensive, but worth it?
Trygon Prime - Even more expensive, but synaptic. Bargain or bust?
Exocrine - It's a straight shooter, but is it worth both price tags?
Tyrannofex - A big shooter, but I can't seem to justify that lousy armor and price in the face of en-masse plasma weaponry from Dark Angels.I agree, damage output isn't revolutionary. However, the T-fex isn't typically taken in that regard. The T-fex excels at removing enemy support units. What Tau has markerlights in the form of Pathfinders? Oh yeah....here's a torrent flamer that ignores your cover AND your armor. Wait, those Scouts scoring that objective and their 2+ Cv is preventing your Devourers from removing models? Same story. Torrent flamer wins. But what I found most crucial about the T-fex is the 2+ save. MSU units that would otherwise be able to cause 3-4 wounds a turn in assault against your other MCs can't because their Krak grenades don't cause unsaved wounds. Especially with AG (for Fleet), the T-fex can definitely become a thorn in your opponent's side if not dealt with. Oh hey....by the way....Do you know the math in order to remove a 2+ Sv, 5+ Cv, 5+ FnP model with 6 T6 wounds? From anything except Grav weaponry your opponent would be better off focusing his/her plasma, melta, lascannon fire elsewhere. That's even with a 5+ Cv, Venomthrope anyone? Now you get a 3+Cv.

Well, that's all I have. Hopefully some of you guys have some things that might bring me some new life into these models for me.

Again, what you think and how units work out for you in practice is what's important. I still respect all/most Tyranid players just simply because they choose to play an army that is significantly disadvantaged (as of late) compared to all of the other armies out there. I still play them for the challenge. What most people don't realize, is that Tyranid lists require a finesse that other armies don't.

Some people play 40K for the thrill of the win. Some people play for the challenege. Some don't play at all. To each their own. But don't tell me that people playing the Jetseer council or the (previously known) O'vesa star are playing for the challenge, because frankly, when you don't lose units turn and turn again, while you decisively remove your opponents units, where's the challenge?

/rant.....

Cheers!

Move through cover does not grant assault Grenades FYI, and while Shrikes are now scoring, only troops have Objective Secured and they are Fast Attack. But I agree with almost all of your quotes in red. Except Hive Crones. They suck lol.

Tyrannofex's are absolutely great for killing Markerlight-mules.

Just a note on the raveners vs shrike argument. With 7e if you want assault only and don't care about synapse then ravener is the way to go due to higher speed. Move 12 and reroll assault and charges while shrikes only get one of the two. Also ignore terrain which isn't half bad. Red terror adds strenght 5 and 6 to gt, making it a good unit for opening metal boxes.

Shrikes have access to Toxin Sacs, Adrenal Glands, Boneswords, Flesh Hooks, and as Synapse Creatures are always Fearless. That makes them much better than Raveners to me.

 PrinceRaven wrote:
Shrikes have access to Toxin Sacs, Adrenal Glands, Boneswords, Flesh Hooks, and as Synapse Creatures are always Fearless. That makes them much better than Raveners to me.

For a higher cost though. If we are comparing the 35 point Rending Ravener with the 35 point Rending Shrike, the Ravener moves more quickly across the board in most circumstances (since Wings must choose either the faster move or the re-rollable charge) and come with I5, striking before a lot of opponents and running enemies down more easily, where as the Shrike can access places the Ravener cannot (jump movement), gets HoW and comes with Synapse/Shadows.

You can pile the upgrades on the Shrike, but it starts to get very costly very quickly and dakka is always quick to point out how easily a T4 platform dies to ID. If we're really going with the upgrades though, you can also pile guns onto Raveners without losing their melee effectiveness.

In an edition that is skewed against assault, both struggle to compete with gun platform creatures, but Shrikes and Raveners are very close to one another. Shrikes may just edge out in the end because of HoW being great though.

Xyptc wrote:

 PrinceRaven wrote:
Shrikes have access to Toxin Sacs, Adrenal Glands, Boneswords, Flesh Hooks, and as Synapse Creatures are always Fearless. That makes them much better than Raveners to me.

For a higher cost though. If we are comparing the 35 point Rending Ravener with the 35 point Rending Shrike, the Ravener moves more quickly across the board in most circumstances (since Wings must choose either the faster move or the re-rollable charge) and come with I5, striking before a lot of opponents and running enemies down more easily, where as the Shrike can access places the Ravener cannot (jump movement), gets HoW and comes with Synapse/Shadows.

You can pile the upgrades on the Shrike, but it starts to get very costly very quickly and dakka is always quick to point out how easily a T4 platform dies to ID. If we're really going with the upgrades though, you can also pile guns onto Raveners without losing their melee effectiveness.

In an edition that is skewed against assault, both struggle to compete with gun platform creatures, but Shrikes and Raveners are very close to one another. Shrikes may just edge out in the end because of HoW being great though.

And Shrikes have synapse and can have a few kitted with specialty weapons...not to mention "free" guns with an effective 30" range.

I've got some comments that differ from other people a bit.

 Unyielding Hunger wrote:
So guys, I up and lost myself in my work, and quite frankly, have not been listening to the hive mind very clearly of late. So, having lost my sense of purpose, and with this new edition, I need some help in molding my force into something that I can actually bother to carry to 15k and beyond. As it stands, here is my opinions on the units in the codex, and my general strategies so far; I need some new ideas, as well as ways of salvaging those units that I can't seem to really find a use for.

As some of my closer compatriots know, but most others probably don't, I run assault heavy 'Nids.

The Usable
Swarmlord - My heart of the swarm, mostly just for tossing out some half-cocked buffs every turn. There is no doubt that the Swarmlord is overcosted, and a flying Dakka Tyrant would be better. But he is our 2nd best HQ choice. He buffs, he is a psychic powerhouse, and he is great in close combat.
Tyranid Prime - Semi Cheap Synapse, but crappy. Decent character hunters. Overcosted with overcosted upgrades. No longer able to Join Walkrants, Swarmlords, or Carnifexes limits his already limited usefulness. He slows down HGaunts and Shrikes. He was already a fairly marginal choice, now a downright bad one.
Deathleaper - Leadership shenanigans, and some decent mid game pressure on his single characters.Leadership just got less important. Useful if the entire list is built around him. Otherwise...
Genestealers - Full broods are always fun, but starting to run into issues where they just aren't staying stuck in, and I can't even get MSU onto target without getting focused down. Genestealers are worth 8-9 points. They cost twice that. They are awful. Really, really bad. This weekend I played someone who I hadn't played before, and so I ran the crappiest army I could against him. That meant 16 ST + AG genesteelrs and a broodlord. I managed to pin a unit of 7 Nobz, a painboy, and a Warboss. I got 11 genesteelers and the broodlord into assault with them. 320 Points of my elite assault troops in the best of all situations vs 240 points of his more versatile, less optimized troops. After 3 rounds of assault, there were no Tyranids left, and he still had 120 points worth of Orks.
Termagants - Been running them either stock or as devil's. Pretty much haven't found a decent way to take advantage of their shooting without them getting in the way of my Hormagaunts, ruining the screen.Devilgaunts work as long as you run them in mixed units, and have a rolling hoard making the long walk across the board. Don't work with certain combinations.
Hormagaunts - Ultragaunts or bust. So expensive, but they have never steered me wrong.One upgrade or the other, or run them with no upgrades to maximize their efficiency.
Ripper Swarms - 15 points for some deep striking fun, but I am having some issues beyond mid game objective contesting or just sitting tight on back objectives. Have been thinking about 25pt Ultraswarms for secondary assault forces; workable?Overcosted. Everyone has access to S6 shooting to ID them.
Zoanthropes - Cheapest way to spam plenty of charges, but is there any decent way to keep the darn things from getting singled out?Big buff in 7th. Solo Zoeys are great. They do die, but can take a lot of fire before death. I try to deploy them out of LOS.
Venomthropes - They performed well, but I fall short at every single game. These things can never cover my Hormagaunts past the first turn or two, right when I need it to, when they are easily within enemy rapid fire ranges, right before an assault. Help?Run a single venom, and try to keep him out of LOS. You can only count on him for turn 1. Turn 2 is a maybe. Make sure to conga line 2-3 gaunts back so that they can get buffed. If you don't have 2-3 gaunts to conga line it is because your gaunts are too expensive.
Ravenors - I like the idea, but I run into issues on keeping them cost effective. Also, is it a good idea to have a Red Terror every once in a while?Raveners are surprisingly good. Rending claws, no other upgrades. They are what Genesteelers should be. Only a tad overcosted. They have fleet and ignore terrain, plus Initiative 5 which means they strike first against a majority of other units.
Gargoyles - Deepstriking termagants keep my friends occupied on something other than their front lines.I never deep strike my Gargoyles. They are fast enough and cheap enough to run them out front as bubblewrap. They are faster and taller than HGaunts. Big enough to bubblewrap MCs. Run them in front of upgraded Hormagaunts to give them a 3+ cover save.
Spore Mine Cluster - Used them plenty in the old codex and loved them, but I can't seem to truly grasp the best option for them in this new codex.No good options in the new codex. Same price as an HGaunt, and an HGaunt is better.
Carnifex - Love that cheap melee goodness.2 TL Devourers, no other upgrades. A good unit that mostly escaped the giant nerfs to TMCs in 7th.
Biovore - Gave me the old spore mines, and seem like they are still decent artillery. They just tend to sit there and get forgot about though.Cheap backfield objective scoring. Run them solo or as part of Living artillery. Wonderful against enemy support units like devastators or marker lights.
Mawloc - Looks good, but what are his odds of making it to the next turn once he breaks the surface?Mawlocs are tough. Big nerf in 7th by taking away smash. I bet my Mawlocs smashed more than they did their normal attacks in 6th. They aren't worthless, but are highly random.


The Unusable
Hive Tyrant - Yea.. I can't justify the point cost for 2 warp charges or decent melee capability. Hands down the best HQ. Gunboat style (2 TL-Devourers, E.Grubs, Wings) are top tier. If you run them any other way, you are nerfing yourself. That being said, if you must run a Melee Tyrant, consider giving him wings, but Gliding the whole time. You can still Jink for a 4+ cover, and a venom bumps that to a 2+
Old One Eye - Looks like a decent tank, but as a warlord, I can't figure out a decent way to get him into some good killing grounds without getting picked off early by anti-tank.Would be good if he cost 140 points. Overcosted by 1/2
Tervigon - So, seems likely to go menopausal on me fairly fast, and horrible warp charge for the points. Can't even think of a good way to use it for melee.Tervigon is our toughest Objective secured option. However, they are overcosted. With Maelstrom cards they are strongly sub-optimal. In EW missions, they can work. Always give them E.Grubs.
Tyranid Warriors- I converted them to Primes. I can't even think of a decent reason for picking up a couple more boxes.A decent support unit. Min Squads provide synapse. Zoeys got buffed. Shrikes are better.
Hive Guard - Can these things really do much good against Landraiders? Doesn't seem like it, and I have 3 that I have a big problem with.Not near enough shots. For BS3. Worth it if they were 30 points. Overcosted.
Lictors - These things work as a distraction, but never seem to do as much as I hope. Any ideas for what I should aim at? If you want to run Lictors, look at the formations, and build your entire list around them
Haruspex - It's a big guy, but I don't see these doing well enough to justify the price tag.Overcosted on paper, never tried him in game.
Pyrovore - Yea... I gave up when I turned the chalk board into a dry erase board and then turned it back into a chalk board with crappy ideas.
Shrikes - Deepstriking Warriors, but will they even do well with a nominally melee focus?Shrikes are the bomb. They are fast, and can be as good as raveners in CC. ST+RC+FH, and you have a killer assault unit with a chance to pop transports. Take them if you need synapse besides zoeys or HQs. If you take raveners, you need a matching squad of shrikes to support them.
Sky Slashers - Too expensive for my walking rippers, but is the jump infantry movement worth it?
Harpy - The closest thing to aircraft in my local meta is a landspeeder.Good if you are looking at hoard armies. For Instance, Guard blob disappears under a TL STC and a Spore bomb. I never see hoard armies, so I never use them.
Hive Crone - The closest thing to aircraft in my local meta is a landspeeder.A very good choice. Killer anti-air. Does ok against infantry. Survivable thanks to the nerf to Quad guns. Flying Dakka Tyrants are better.
Trygon - Expensive, but worth it? The Nerf to smash hit them hard. Not worth it.
Trygon Prime - Even more expensive, but synaptic. Bargain or bust?Overcosted, but situational useful.
Exocrine - It's a straight shooter, but is it worth both price tags?Dakkafexes have pushed him out of my heavy support slots thanks to the changes in 7th. If I start seeing elite infantry, I might bring it back.
Tyrannofex - A big shooter, but I can't seem to justify that lousy armor and price in the face of en-masse plasma weaponry from Dark Angels.Nerfed in 7th. Always take E.Grubs. Carnifexes are better.

Well, that's all I have. Hopefully some of you guys have some things that might bring me some new life into these models for me.

Xyptc wrote:

 PrinceRaven wrote:
Shrikes have access to Toxin Sacs, Adrenal Glands, Boneswords, Flesh Hooks, and as Synapse Creatures are always Fearless. That makes them much better than Raveners to me.

For a higher cost though. If we are comparing the 35 point Rending Ravener with the 35 point Rending Shrike, the Ravener moves more quickly across the board in most circumstances (since Wings must choose either the faster move or the re-rollable charge) and come with I5, striking before a lot of opponents and running enemies down more easily, where as the Shrike can access places the Ravener cannot (jump movement), gets HoW and comes with Synapse/Shadows.

You can pile the upgrades on the Shrike, but it starts to get very costly very quickly and dakka is always quick to point out how easily a T4 platform dies to ID. If we're really going with the upgrades though, you can also pile guns onto Raveners without losing their melee effectiveness.

In an edition that is skewed against assault, both struggle to compete with gun platform creatures, but Shrikes and Raveners are very close to one another. Shrikes may just edge out in the end because of HoW being great though.

Not much to add...but Shrikes can carry a Cannon...

I run 9 shrikes, 9 ravs and 20 gargs which seems to work rather well, ravs and shrikes run claws and dev's

Shingen wrote:
I run 9 shrikes, 9 ravs and 20 gargs which seems to work rather well, ravs and shrikes run claws and dev's

Do you find the 3 shooting attacks on the shrikes are better than the additional CC attack you'd get from RC/ST?

 tetrisphreak wrote:

Shingen wrote:
I run 9 shrikes, 9 ravs and 20 gargs which seems to work rather well, ravs and shrikes run claws and dev's

Do you find the 3 shooting attacks on the shrikes are better than the additional CC attack you'd get from RC/ST?

I do. Getting to be effective earlier, or on a turn they deepstrike is very useful.

So after a long time playing Dark Angels and zero time playing any 7th yet, I decided to pick a new army and settled on Tyranids. I bought a few models, 12 Hormagaunts, 3 Warriors, one of which I assembled as a Prime and a Hive Tyrant I assembled on foot.

Then I thought I'd check the internet to see what other people were taking in their Nid armies. Found this forum on Google!. Nothing like this thread to make me think I made a few mistakes in my assembly choices!

I only really play with my local group and don;t massively play competitively. Here's the list I wrote before reading this thread. Any chance on some criticism on what needs changing before I buy more models this thread seems set against!!?



I make that 1997 points. Thoughts?

ictoabu wrote:
So after a long time playing Dark Angels and zero time playing any 7th yet, I decided to pick a new army and settled on Tyranids. I bought a few models, 12 Hormagaunts, 3 Warriors, one of which I assembled as a Prime and a Hive Tyrant I assembled on foot.

Then I thought I'd check the internet to see what other people were taking in their Nid armies. Found this forum on Google!. Nothing like this thread to make me think I made a few mistakes in my assembly choices!

I only really play with my local group and don;t massively play competitively. Here's the list I wrote before reading this thread. Any chance on some criticism on what needs changing before I buy more models this thread seems set against!!?

Spoiler:

Tyranid Prime - AG, LW & BS, TS, Fleshooks

Vanomthrope
Venomthrope
3 X Zoanthopes

26 X Hormagaunts
26 X Hormagaunts
30 X Termagants - Devourers
4 X Ripper Swarms
Tervigon - CC, EG
5 X Warriors - rending claws, scything talons

Exorcine - AG, Regen
Mawloc - AG
Trygon Prime - Miasma Cannon, AG

I make that 1997 points. Thoughts?

Well...I would descibe some of your choices as..."unpopular" But not unfixable. I'm guessing that you have not made purchases of a fair bit of this? If so, then you might want to figure a while before spending.

If you build your Heavies as Mawlock, Exocrene, Biovore(s) (x3) you can toss in a Warrior Brood to get a Living Artillery Formation, and have two slots open up for the Mawloc to get some rowdy friends.

I'd suggest: Winged Dakka'rant, with Thorax Hive for 240. If you've already glued as a Walker, you'll need Tyrant Guard, at least 2, 3 might be better. Most folks run Two Winged Tyrants, but you could get by with one, then add a Winged Tyrant later...

I suggest you run the Zoeys as two Broods, for the extra roll, and the extra WC. You can double up the Veno Brood for durability. If you get a second HQ (technically you do right now) you can run twin CADs and use 6 Elite slots. That alows you to single out all of them. (if you wish, I prefer Doubled out broods for durability)

Hormies are not strong choices sadly. I use them, mostly because I own them. I tend to run them in Broods of x15. I modded a fair number of them to Devilgaunts (Termigants with Devourers) I tend to run them as 50/50, or most often 2/1. So my x30 Brood would be 20x Vanilla, +10 Devils. It is more economic, you can take loses from the cheap models first. And it just plain cost fewer points.

I don't know if Crushing Claws are worth it on a Tervigon, but I always want a Thorax Hive with Electro bugs.

ictoabu wrote:
I only really play with my local group and don;t massively play competitively. Here's the list I wrote before reading this thread. Any chance on some criticism on what needs changing before I buy more models this thread seems set against!!?

If you are good with it, no need to change. Don't change because we say so. Just find inspiration from the forum, and see what speaks to you.

ictoabu wrote:
Vanomthrope
Venomthrope
3 X Zoanthopes

In 7th edition Zoeys are optimized for running solo. Consider the following:
2 X Venomthrope
Zoey
Zoey
Then use the 50 points somewhere else.

ictoabu wrote:
26 X Hormagaunts
26 X Hormagaunts

Consider the following
20 X HGaunts
20 X HGaunts (TS)
One squad of poison gaunts can really threaten a lot of things. If you ever see a Wraith Knight or Wraith Lord, these will be lifesavers.

ictoabu wrote:
30 X Termagants - Devourers

So, I'm sure you modeled these already. But if you have some fleshborer gaunts or spinefist gaunts, you can run them like this:
30 X Termagants - 20 Devourers, 10 Spinefist and save 40 points
or
20 X Termagants - 10 Devourer, 10 Spinefist
20 X Termagants - 10 Devourer, 10 spinefist. and spend the same number of points, but get 10 more wounds, and a second squad.
You can put the cheap guants up front. It makes it so their firepower lasts longer into the game instead of ablating throughout.

ictoabu wrote:
4 X Ripper Swarms

Deep strike them or don't take them. Unless you've got some technique where they are useful.

ictoabu wrote:
5 X Warriors - rending claws, scything talons

1) I prefer Shrikes as offensive warriors. GW doesn't feel like Shrikes need wings, so you can just call the Warriors Shrikes, and run them as such.
2) Flesh Hooks are a really reasonable upgrade for these. It will allow them to overwatch a bit, and they will have a chance to pop a transport, and assault the guys inside. Plus if your meta is as marine heavy as mine, having the initiative bonus in assault is good.

ictoabu wrote:
Exorcine - AG, Regen

I don't think the upgrades add much. I would drop them both and save the points for something else.

Overall, I don't think your list needs massive reworks. Top tier lists are going to revolve around dakka flyrants, but if your meta doesn't include flyers, they can be overwhelming for your opponents.

A few formations you might consider. Living Artillery (requires 3 biovores) and Endless Swarm which you have the models for, but since units lose objective secured, it isn't as desirable as it used to be.

so:

HQ: Tyrant say 220 to 250 maybe with Tyrant guard, total cost?

Zoey Brood: x2 100
Zoey Brood: Solo 50
Veno Brood: x2 90

Hormigaunts: x15, Toxic 120
Hormigaunts: x15, Toxic 120 (you will likely want to lose Toxic and save 45 points per Brood)
Termigants: x 20 Vanilla,+10 Devils 160
Tervigon: Thorax Hive 205

Mawloc 140
Mawloc 140

1365, depending on what you spend on the Tyrant (estimated at 240)

Living Artillery Formation: 390
Warrior Brood: x3, Venom Cannon 100
Biovore Brood: x3 120
Exocrene 170

That totals....1755? toss in 95 more points, and you hit 1850, and you have a force that can win games. (Or lose 5 pts, for 1750 )

The basic "do everything" Tyrant is Wings, TL: Brain Leeches x2, for 230, add Thorax hive for 240. It really is a TAC build.

Xyptc wrote:

 PrinceRaven wrote:
Shrikes have access to Toxin Sacs, Adrenal Glands, Boneswords, Flesh Hooks, and as Synapse Creatures are always Fearless. That makes them much better than Raveners to me.

For a higher cost though. If we are comparing the 35 point Rending Ravener with the 35 point Rending Shrike, the Ravener moves more quickly across the board in most circumstances (since Wings must choose either the faster move or the re-rollable charge) and come with I5, striking before a lot of opponents and running enemies down more easily, where as the Shrike can access places the Ravener cannot (jump movement), gets HoW and comes with Synapse/Shadows.

You can pile the upgrades on the Shrike, but it starts to get very costly very quickly and dakka is always quick to point out how easily a T4 platform dies to ID. If we're really going with the upgrades though, you can also pile guns onto Raveners without losing their melee effectiveness.

In an edition that is skewed against assault, both struggle to compete with gun platform creatures, but Shrikes and Raveners are very close to one another. Shrikes may just edge out in the end because of HoW being great though.

You don't need to pile on the upgrades, a single Bonesword Shrike massively increases the melee threat of a unit of Shrikes for only a small investment. But, really, it's the grenades that sell Shrikes to me, I'd rather strike at initiative 4 than 1.

ictoabu wrote:
So after a long time playing Dark Angels and zero time playing any 7th yet, I decided to pick a new army and settled on Tyranids. I bought a few models, 12 Hormagaunts, 3 Warriors, one of which I assembled as a Prime and a Hive Tyrant I assembled on foot.

Then I thought I'd check the internet to see what other people were taking in their Nid armies. Found this forum on Google!. Nothing like this thread to make me think I made a few mistakes in my assembly choices!

I only really play with my local group and don;t massively play competitively. Here's the list I wrote before reading this thread. Any chance on some criticism on what needs changing before I buy more models this thread seems set against!!?

Spoiler:

Tyranid Prime - AG, LW & BS, TS, Fleshooks

Vanomthrope
Venomthrope
3 X Zoanthopes

26 X Hormagaunts
26 X Hormagaunts
30 X Termagants - Devourers
4 X Ripper Swarms
Tervigon - CC, EG
5 X Warriors - rending claws, scything talons

Exorcine - AG, Regen
Mawloc - AG
Trygon Prime - Miasma Cannon, AG

I make that 1997 points. Thoughts?

Based on what you have bought.

1 prime (+cc fanciness)

1 Venomthorpe
1 Zoanthorpe

20 hormagants (run with prime)
5 warriors (4x dev+ 1 stranglethorn cannon) (throw in rending claws as you like)

Mawloc/ Exocrine
Mawloc/ Exocrine

Play and add as you like:

Coms relay (for mawlocs- until they FAQ that we can’t use them)
termagants
Zoanthorpes

With the money you saved buy a second tyrant (+wings+ 2 twin linked dev)

You can bore out the arms on the tyrant you have with a small drill bit and knife. Then add wings. The model doesn’t have to have flying tail changed out.
The truth is the tyrant is too weak without an invulnerable save. Hive guard cost more money and points then the wings.

Here’s an idea:

Tyrant (Wings+ Adrenal glands+ reaper of oblitorax) (kills AV13+ and jinks 4+) (it’s an unproven idea I’m working on, which may be controversial)

Biovores are ugly and expensive in money (but dope in points)
I regret buying my Tervigon, trygon, genestealers, swarmlord, walking tyrant, and tyrant guard.
They say exocrines work better in pairs.
Mawlocs do work better in pairs and threes (3= being a jerk though)
Tervigons can’t give birth to devourers and spine fists. Remember this in case you want to get the most out of your termagant model collection.
Check out thetyranidhive.com for even more ideas.
Wait for the kinks in 7th to be figured out.

Have to disagree on Exocrines working better in pairs, 1 is enough, taking a Mawloc is better after the first Exo as it covers models hiding in cover (pretty big) and is less specialised than the Exocrine, covering you on a bunch of bases. Both are good though.

So having really gone back and read BattleForged army compositions, I discovered that you do not have to take a CAD or Allie Detatchment. Now I am pretty sure most tourneys will require this, however, in large point games it does open the option of just running the Living Tide Formation from the the 3rd supplement as a Battle Forged Army.

In smaller games I can see doing just the Synapse Node or Tyrant Node and either Skyblight or Endless Swarms for fluffy Tyranid goodness.

And this works for both Unbound and Battle forged, infact I am not really seeing much reason to run Unbound with 'nids. Pretty much everything you want is in a Formation already.

Didn't know anyone was running unbound...at all.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Everyone I know considers unbound to be in the same category as the "These rules are guidelines and you can throw any of them out as you wish" note in the book.