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 Unyielding Hunger wrote:
Actually, he was selling it for almost nothing. Besides, I already look at my army as something that I planned to grow to Apocalypse levels. That being said, the Dark Angels player who I brought into the game, and has become one of my prime irritants with the amount of plasma he likes to bring against my Carnifexes, keeps trying to come up with flimsy fluff reasons so he can "ally" with my army for Apocalypse matches. I keep telling him the only allies I accept are ketchup, mustard, and the occasional monofilament nail file.
All I need now is a decent graphic artist to draw up a Hive Tyrant's face with a cocky grin with the caption "Got Templates?" underneath for use on a t-shirt.

So, looking at these new developments, what do you guys think about fishing for catalyst for those Tyrannofexes? The way I see it, I will probably keep them stock. Stinger Salvo isn't what I would like, but it seems like it will work well for a decent secondary. On the Trygons, should I run them stock, or grab regeneration for a little extra endurance? Or perhaps just cheat and run them as Mawlocs? On the Tervigons, should I keep them stock or give in to my nature to make round numbers and toss them Cluster Spines?

Catalyst and regen on tyrannos can make them unstoppable against the right lists, and damn tough against others! Keep them stock, hit them up with Onslaught and acid spray torrent can catch a lot of people out.

Cheat and run them as Mawlocs!

If you are going to give your Tervigon anything I'd recommend Electro grubs.

Vs a sensible opponen at regular points armiet, Regen at best will give you back 1 wound on a Tfex for 30 points. The rest of the time it's 30 PTS wasted.

Except at 1000 PTS or lower. A regen Tfex is a big investment down there but he's much more likely to survive more than one turn of shooting (or even all of them). Tfex in general is just better at lower points values, his role in the codex to me is winning 750-1250 pt games, in numbers.

Catalyst is worth it to protect your points investment tho, but still often better cast on a Flyrant or Carnifex brood. Tfexs don't have incredibly consistent damage output, and they are really costly, against any Marine army they are often just best off ignoring him to waste your points. Don't compound the issue by putting Catalyst on him if it's better cast elsewhere .

Trygons in general are a strong competitor for worst unit in the codex. Not because he does nothing, because he's so overpriced. Trygon prime is just 40 pts worse. As said you can grab two Carnifex. That miasma cannon makes it two Mawlocs. Spend points wisely.

tag8833 wrote:

 Unyielding Hunger wrote:

Tyranid Prime - Semi Cheap Synapse, but crappy. Decent character hunters. Overcosted with overcosted upgrades. No longer able to Join Walkrants, Swarmlords, or Carnifexes limits his already limited usefulness. He slows down HGaunts and Shrikes. He was already a fairly marginal choice, now a downright bad one.

I had it pointed out to me that a Prime can still join a unit of Tyrant Guards (and thereby joining a Hive Tyrant/Swarmlord). Still a sub-par choice though.

True, but you have to join the Prime to the unit before joining the Tyrant.

 tetrisphreak wrote:
You can never have too many bugs.

I have easily over 10000 points in tyranid models.

Pretty sure I am at 10000 without upgrades. It nice to be able to throw down whatever you want.

Now that tyrranofex is scoring in every game his value skyrocketed. His torrent flamer owns other xenos' troops and GEQ, and he can bust tanks in melee in a pinch.

For the points, regen can extend his lifespan considerably. I'm even taking it on my flyrants now, because of the change in grounding tests - no more marker lights knocking my flyrant down followed by tons of missiles at full BS.

I'm looking for a little help here, I simply cannot seem to crack the Tau-nut. Every single game I play, example of last three games, newbie w/Farsight Bomb @1850, Tau Gunline w/double 'Tides @1850 and my last game @1250 Versus a Tau Mobile Armored Force, three Devilfish packed with Troops/HQ, a Riptide and three Tetra.

First game versus newbie w/Farsight Bomb I won, because of two lucky Ld roles on eight Termagaunts, 2 squads, one of 6 and one of 2. At 1850, despite it being a "win" it was horribly demoralizing. In this game I was running 2 Flyrants, 3 Venomthrope, Tervigon w/Gaunt Tax, 1 Crone, Living Artillery, an Aegis Defense line and a Mawloc. Filled in with some extra Warriors for points to 1850.

Second game was the same, similar list, yet Hammer and Anvil deployment versus a Tau Gunline. I almost won on points, but again, an extremely demoralizing victory. I felt completely behind the ball the whole game.

The last game I got seized on after I committed my entire hive to the 12" mark with plans to be hyper aggressive, I forgot about the new Jink rule and gave up First Blood/Warlord before I even got to go. That was the only big mistake that game and I feel it would have been a lot different had that not happened. This list was 2 Flyrant, 6 Warriors (spit into two Units, this donkey-cave likes to Synapse snipe all game and laugh while he does it) with Devs/Boneswords, 20+ Hormagaunts, Living Artillery.

My question for discussion, at this point, is there any viable strategy, idea, etc that isn't "buy Gargantuan" or "Go Skyblight" that might help someone with these options crack a casual Tau player in half? I'm really struggling here and I'd like to put this out there to a broader mindset in the hopes I can pull a little more moral victories out of my Tau matchups.

 Unyielding Hunger wrote:
Actually, he was selling it for almost nothing. Besides, I already look at my army as something that I planned to grow to Apocalypse levels. That being said, the Dark Angels player who I brought into the game, and has become one of my prime irritants with the amount of plasma he likes to bring against my Carnifexes, keeps trying to come up with flimsy fluff reasons so he can "ally" with my army for Apocalypse matches. I keep telling him the only allies I accept are ketchup, mustard, and the occasional monofilament nail file.
All I need now is a decent graphic artist to draw up a Hive Tyrant's face with a cocky grin with the caption "Got Templates?" underneath for use on a t-shirt.

So, looking at these new developments, what do you guys think about fishing for catalyst for those Tyrannofexes? The way I see it, I will probably keep them stock. Stinger Salvo isn't what I would like, but it seems like it will work well for a decent secondary. On the Trygons, should I run them stock, or grab regeneration for a little extra endurance? Or perhaps just cheat and run them as Mawlocs? On the Tervigons, should I keep them stock or give in to my nature to make round numbers and toss them Cluster Spines?

My favorite build for Tyranofexen is: Adrenal Gland, Thorax Hive (Electro Bugs) for 200 per. Not perfect, but "good enough"
I also obsessively add Electro bugs to Tervigons, for 205 each. Though I seldom (as in never) run more than 1 in a list.

Somebody posted a "thing of art" up in Army lists, a nice list with 6 Carnifexen. You might take a look at it.

I usually find Regen to be a poor use of points, except in low point games, I prefer to spend points elsewhere. Mawlocs are always good (IMHO) there's always room for Mawlocs.

Take a gander at my "Psycho" lists I've been posting, they may not be "perfect", but they are not short of Synapse, or Warp Charges.

I am officially jealous of your vast horde of bugs.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

notbriang wrote:
I'm looking for a little help here, I simply cannot seem to crack the Tau-nut. Every single game I play, example of last three games, newbie w/Farsight Bomb @1850, Tau Gunline w/double 'Tides @1850 and my last game @1250 Versus a Tau Mobile Armored Force, three Devilfish packed with Troops/HQ, a Riptide and three Tetra.

First game versus newbie w/Farsight Bomb I won, because of two lucky Ld roles on eight Termagaunts, 2 squads, one of 6 and one of 2. At 1850, despite it being a "win" it was horribly demoralizing. In this game I was running 2 Flyrants, 3 Venomthrope, Tervigon w/Gaunt Tax, 1 Crone, Living Artillery, an Aegis Defense line and a Mawloc. Filled in with some extra Warriors for points to 1850.

Second game was the same, similar list, yet Hammer and Anvil deployment versus a Tau Gunline. I almost won on points, but again, an extremely demoralizing victory. I felt completely behind the ball the whole game.

The last game I got seized on after I committed my entire hive to the 12" mark with plans to be hyper aggressive, I forgot about the new Jink rule and gave up First Blood/Warlord before I even got to go. That was the only big mistake that game and I feel it would have been a lot different had that not happened. This list was 2 Flyrant, 6 Warriors (spit into two Units, this donkey-cave likes to Synapse snipe all game and laugh while he does it) with Devs/Boneswords, 20+ Hormagaunts, Living Artillery.

My question for discussion, at this point, is there any viable strategy, idea, etc that isn't "buy Gargantuan" or "Go Skyblight" that might help someone with these options crack a casual Tau player in half? I'm really struggling here and I'd like to put this out there to a broader mindset in the hopes I can pull a little more moral victories out of my Tau matchups.

Well...the "simple" answer is speed. You need to get downfield as fast as you can, but with Synapse. Outflank, and Deepstrike are very good tools for this. It puts a big distraction in the backfield so your main force can run up into range. FMCs are so popular for this reason as well.

I'd suggest that just for starters take Hive Commander, and Outflank a Tervigon, with a Thorax Hive. Spawn as soon as you arrive so you can bubble wrap. That gives you two Objective secured Troops, with Synapse (and the possability of more) in his face. That should keep them entertained while you close in on supper.

Sadly the only "answer" for Alpha Strikes is careful setup...many folks have been forced into taking a Fort, so they can place some terrain where its most useful (see "Veno in a box" ) I like Tunnels vs Tau, but I am considered a little "odd" for that reason. ( I include Mawlocs under "Tunnels work" )

My standard "solution" to Synapse hunting, is to swamp them with Synapse. I often build lists with as many Synapse sources, as there are units that need Synapse. While they shoot at Zoeys, I can close in.

I too find games vs tau demoralising. Just that no matter how well I'm doing verse Every other army I can only scrape in victorys vs a rag tag bunch of Xenos with a couple of Riptides.

They are Hardcore, and just by nature counter us, having abundance of med-high strength all with low AP, vs us being a 3+ army - except unlike Marines our threat range pretty much starts at 18"., and them having double that.

Your first list is pretty good. I would recommend dropping 2 Venoms for Zoanthropes. 1 venom out of line of sight should do the same job as 3 anyway most games. Zoanthropes are an extra roll at Onslaught to help push your guys into shooting range a turn early. Drop the Crone. They suck. Flaming a squad of pathfinders sounds cool but is not worth 155 points (aka an AG Mawloc). To likely get 1 good template and do little else. Tyrannofexes do this job better. Give AG to it and any other MC that doesn't have wings (including Mawloc). Tervigon is just giving your opponent free points.. Him and his Gant brood single-handedly push your from 1500 to an 1850 pt army. He will never be worth it. Take Carnifexes instead.KEEP the living artillery formation. Roll for Master of Ambush Warlord trait, reroll if you don't get it, no matter what. If you get it and go first, infiltrate a Carnifex brood and an Exocrine into shooting range turn 1, and whatever else you packed (Tfex nice). Alpha with all that + 2 Flyrants + 3 biovores to suddenly leave him with half an army before the game starts. Laugh at him. If you go second, outflank them and jink the Flyers, hide with Venoms. Mawlocs are great, take 1or2, don't deep strike on top of Riptides but as close as possible to charge (preferably without wasting entry blast )


Obviously you can't do all of these things, but pick which work for you. It IS a winnable match up, and this TFG sounds like a scrub. Be sensible in killing marker lights - don't waste 12 TL S6 shots on them for example , however - feel free to throw Mawlocs blast at it if he's not in the ruin. Biovores are your Markerlight killers though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
1 thing I stress is keep that Living Arty whatever you do


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And ignore anyone who says take Skyblight. It's a subpar list , like it or not. Some just can't see past 7 FMCs.

A liitle ways upstream, I posted a suggested List in this thread that used Living Artillery, and two Mawlocs. That sort of thing is very good vs Gunlines. You might take a look at it and see if you get any ideas.

I really like the list pine one, except once again I'm gunna be a downer on the Tervigon. You already have 2 solid troops without it and the termagants, you have an open HS slot, so that could easily be two Carnifexes with Devvies lol

I know I sound like a broken record but damn, trading Dakkafexes for Termagants is never a good thing. People need to see that Tervigon is only ever worth it at 1000 and under

 SHUPPET wrote:
I really like the list pine one, except once again I'm gunna be a downer on the Tervigon. You already have 2 solid troops without it and the termagants, you have an open HS slot, so that could easily be two Carnifexes with Devvies lol

I know I sound like a broken record but damn, trading Dakkafexes for Termagants is never a good thing. People need to see that Tervigon is only ever worth it at 1000 and under

Don't blame you for hating on the Tervigon...it Is overpriced. But it has Synapse, and Objective secured (most times) and those are important features, to me anyway. A lot of the time the fine features of a list come down to "style". And there is no such thing as "correct" in matters of style. Besides, that list uses the models he has... I wouldn't say "go buy a Tervigon", but if you own one...use it.

I don't think relying on Objective Secured Troops is going to be an effective tactic in 7th. I'm expecting maximum threat overload hyper-offensive lists are going to be the way forward.

In 6th Tervigon with 30 Gants were my staple troops, but in 7th with everything scoring I just can justify her anymore. I'm now running min size Termagant squads, and skylight Gargoyles.

I have two, still use em, just to take scoring by the reins at 500-1000 pts where both armies have a low unit count, Tervigons don't die so easy, and zero cost Termagants make up a much larger percentage bonus to the size of your army, and nearly makes up for how overpriced he is. At 1500 or higher I won't even consider him though. But as you said it's prolly a play style difference, I can dig it - I'd personally much rather have 24 TL S6 shots, 2 more wounds, and a bunch of S9-10 attacks in CC as opposed to a bunch of Termagants. I CAN see why the other is chosen, I just can't see how it's justified tho.




One thing I'd like opinions on TS Horms a I know they can tear it up, but at 8 ppm I can't help but think that they are just Wyches, with less WS and imitative. And no venoms raiders or Webway. Or haywires. Can someone help me out here cause I'm still conflicted :(

Well you have seen my list SHUPPET. Despite being objective secured troops I would field Shrikes before hormagants in pretty much any match up.

As well, Carnis are the 'new black'. If you have the die to roll onlaught - and you should - and if you get ambush - this is close to autowin vs. Tau. The list that i posted earlier is just so strong in the meta. I do like living artillery though. I just do not want to forgo my 6 Zoans.

Mmm, infiltrating carnifexes...

 SHUPPET wrote:

One thing I'd like opinions on TS Horms a I know they can tear it up, but at 8 ppm I can't help but think that they are just Wyches, with less WS and imitative. And no venoms raiders or Webway. Or haywires. Can someone help me out here cause I'm still conflicted :(

They aren't awful. They are fairly useful most of the time, but suffer from being a pure assault unit with low T/poor Sv (so to Overwatch, basically).

They aren't as numerous as Termagants, so make a poorer tarpit. They aren't as lethal as Devilgants, and so aren't as killy.

They are quite dangerous to MCs, and negate the high toughness some infantry pay a lot for. They also cleave through light infantry fairly easily.

Their kill ratio goes up a lot if their target is Pinned (read into that about their situational use).

I used to run a blob of 30 with Toxin Sacks and they were fun. They feel very... "old school Tyranids", and that is something I enjoy when our best units are shooters now. Catalyst is their friend (more so than almost any other unit I would say, along with Gargoyles). Lately though, when I have used them I have run them in three broods of 10 as part of an Endless Swarm (alongside a Trygon Prime actually, for the tunnel and Synapse) and they have been a bit more successful, coming back into play late-game and being right in the thick of it.

Use them if you want, because they are a little too dangerous to ignore so your opponent must do something about them, and you can use that to your advantage. Don't expect them to sweep a flank though.

 felixcat wrote:
Well you have seen my list SHUPPET. Despite being objective secured troops I would field Shrikes before hormagants in pretty much any match up.

As well, Carnis are the 'new black'. If you have the die to roll onlaught - and you should - and if you get ambush - this is close to autowin vs. Tau. The list that i posted earlier is just so strong in the meta. I do like living artillery though. I just do not want to forgo my 6 Zoans.

Your list is a very strong concept and sees it out to the end. Mine is a bit more rounded less likely to push fast Heavy Support. At this stage I think I'm an equal fan of both (which I like). Problem with yours is that most tournaments have outlawed the dual FOC. I'll post my list in a sec.


Yeah Shrikes really do outclass Horms bigtime as CC units. I can see why Horms can hurt things just not how they are worth their points. Especially with no frags. The question was really only asked because I'm curious to see if there is SOME points effective way to make my mandatory troop slots a bit more than min points into Termagants aka damage control. But I think even Warriors are better. With our masses S6-S7 MCs aren't really a drama anyway not one worth spending the price of another Mawloc on 15 TS Horms. I do appreciate Xyptcs response though.


My list is this.



Flyrant, TL-Devs, eGrubs
Flyrant, TL-Devs, eGrubs

Venomthrope
Zoanthrope
Zoanthrope

10x Termagant
10x Termagant
3x Warriors, Venom Cannon

3x Biovore
2x Carnifex, TL-Devourers
2x Carnifex, TL-Devourers
Exocrine
Mawloc, Adrenal Glands

1850 pts.

That's a Living Artillery formation in there Fyi.


It is STILL an autowin with Master of Ambush, obviously push 4 Carnis up and the Exocrine. Dont get it, bait out dispel dice with your first 6-8 rolls, then use any rolls of Onslaught to push Carnis into shooting range of anything at the front of their DZ.

TL Biovores pump any Xenos in the ruins, and Exocrine can use BS4 and TL to reliably force a 4+ on Centurions there (this is the very best our codex can do about this).

Lone Mawloc is a very all-rounder type guy who can hit guys with armor throwing off Devourer fire, or guys in cover doing the same, can charge a tank or MC turn 3, synergisesand contributes heavily to turn 2 alpha if no master of ambush / outflanking , just cause a general backfield threat / distraction, and is cheap + really tanky + mobile scoring after all is said. He doesn't have a specific role but nothing really fills the 150 pts better. You really don't need 12 more Devourer shots from another Dakkafex, you already have 72. Points are better spent supporting this. Zoans would but need 80 more points for double FOC and that's not even allowed everywhere :( low AP + utility is why Mawloc is the best pick here.

 jifel wrote:
I concede defeat then. I think I'm sitting at 5000 without silly upgrades? Ah, the joys of youth.

I haven't done the maths.

I think I'm still sat at 14,000 points or so sans upgrades. Admittedly it does include 3 Hierodules...but I'd need to sit down and do the maths again.

Still, having 6 Hive Tyrants plus the Swarmlord is fun for larger games as it allows me to field the Tyranid High Command and Psychic Choir formations in particular with Tyrants to spare. Which is always good, to have additional assets and a mixed unit of Tyrant Guard, Zoeys and the Tyrant himself with their 30 inch range, 10 shot AP 1 blind and pinning Nova....

Yours is quite a decent list SHUPPET. However I would take 3 rppers w/ DS over ten termagants anyday and I'm not a fan of walking warriors ( although they are there for living artillery obviously).
I do not like the Mawloc. You cannot covince me it is better than than a carnifex. Without dual CAD your list is something very close to what I would run as well.

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

 jifel wrote:
I concede defeat then. I think I'm sitting at 5000 without silly upgrades? Ah, the joys of youth.

I think I'm still sat at 14,000 points or so sans upgrades. Admittedly it does include 3 Hierodules...but I'd need to sit down and do the maths again.

I'm at 5,000 sans upgrades, but I've still got some missing pieces.
1) a 2nd Tervigon / TFex
2) a 3rd Flyrant / Walkrant
3) a 3rd and 4th Crone / Harpy.
4) 1 to 2 Exocrines.
5) Another 30 gargoyles.
That is another 5 months of purchases.

The Warriors are there for Living Artillery Formation actually. They are a requirement to give TL and pinning to themselves, the Biovores and the Exocrine (while in range) and also let's them fit in the FOC.

Carnifex is the other option to Mawloc of course, I just feel like 4 is enough already especially with the two Flyrants aka Carnifexes with Wings the Mawloc helps cover me on things that AP less devourers may not e.g. armor and cover saves and catching transports. However, I certainly wouldn't mark down any man who picked a Carnifex instead as they are of course, badass mofos.

As it stands, it's choice between Deepstriking Rippers or AG on the Mawloc - I'd rather have my Mawloc securing charge ranges and hitting 3 S7 AP2 into a Riptide or a vehicles rear armor. And if the Mawloc was a Dakkafex like you suggested, it would mean dropping a Thrope or an eGrubs. Just doesn't seem worth it. I might consider barebones Rippers however to just run to an objective each, but i do like pushing the 20 Termagants up slightly behind Dakkafexes to help them with any serious tarpit that might ruin their day, or distract some troop shooting because of this.

 N.I.B. wrote:

tag8833 wrote:

 Unyielding Hunger wrote:

Tyranid Prime - Semi Cheap Synapse, but crappy. Decent character hunters. Overcosted with overcosted upgrades. No longer able to Join Walkrants, Swarmlords, or Carnifexes limits his already limited usefulness. He slows down HGaunts and Shrikes. He was already a fairly marginal choice, now a downright bad one.

I had it pointed out to me that a Prime can still join a unit of Tyrant Guards (and thereby joining a Hive Tyrant/Swarmlord). Still a sub-par choice though.

That a debatable point as you can see in the Riptide IC debate in YMDC.

Why even bother debating it, if you already have a Tyrant there is no reason to consider a Prime. Then again, there is no reason to ever take a Prime as Deathleaper is a much better choice for cheap HQ

 tetrisphreak wrote:
Mmm, infiltrating carnifexes...

So good.. so so good..

What allows them to do that???

Master of Ambush Warlord trait. You get two rolls for it. Gives 3 units in your army the Infiltrate rule, also allowing them to outflank if needed.

Fragile wrote:

 N.I.B. wrote:

tag8833 wrote:

 Unyielding Hunger wrote:

Tyranid Prime - Semi Cheap Synapse, but crappy. Decent character hunters. Overcosted with overcosted upgrades. No longer able to Join Walkrants, Swarmlords, or Carnifexes limits his already limited usefulness. He slows down HGaunts and Shrikes. He was already a fairly marginal choice, now a downright bad one.

I had it pointed out to me that a Prime can still join a unit of Tyrant Guards (and thereby joining a Hive Tyrant/Swarmlord). Still a sub-par choice though.

That a debatable point as you can see in the Riptide IC debate in YMDC.

Debatable in that one side is clearly right according to the rules as written but the other side continues to argue anyway.

Didn't get a chance to rematch against that Lord of Skulls this week, but did have a interesting game against Dark Eldar with the Maelstrom missions. We drew the Contact Lost mission and I think it's my favorite of all the ones I've played thus far. Basically, each player generates 1 tactical objective at the start of the game and every turn thereafter they generate 1 additional tactical objective (up to 6) for each objective marker they currently hold. I brought a semi-swarmy list (40 Gargoyles + 40 Hormagaunts), so I was able to cover most of the table and generate 2-3 objectives a turn while my opponent was only able to get 1 a turn thanks to the carpet of gaunts clogging up the board. I ended up with 9 victory points to their 7, though at the end of the game I was really badly depleted with only 3 Hormagaunts, a Warrior, and a Harpy with a single wound left vs a pair of unharmed Raiders, a pair of Razorwing Jetfighters, and a pair of Ravagers. Still, the mission really helped even out the playing field, since he couldn't just hang back and shoot me to death all game before zipping forward to claim/deny objectives. I was actually able to put up a fight, which was quite refreshing in all honesty.

Also from league night, I lent my Haruspex to a fellow 'nid so they could get a game in with the model and it managed to destroyed an Imperial Knight all by itself! The Knight apparently charged the Haruspex on the first turn, did 2 wounds to it, and took 4 hull points(!!!) in return from the Haruspex (apparently it scored 2 hits, 1 glance and 1 pen which exploded for a total of 3 HPs). Next round the Knight did another 2 wounds and blew up from the return blows before it could try to stomp (and incidentally, died before a supporting Tervigon was able to lend its own armorbane attacks). Sadly, the Haruspex's rampage ended next turn to retaliatory battlecannon fire from another knight on the other side of the table...

BeeCee wrote:
Against orks just keep those FMCs gliding instead of swooping, it's not like the orks have a great BS anyways. Then that nasty traktor kannon is hitting you on a 6.

Even gliding you're a FMC which is all Skyfire cares about.
You get hit as normal.

I see those trukks being taken pretty often since Skyfire hits skimmers as well... and skimmers are pretty prevalent.