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 jy2 wrote:

 Iechine wrote:
So yes, I've gotten my display board done for Mechanicon, but I actually havent fully committed to my list yet. I feel critically NOT TAC and was pondering dropping a Fex for Gargoyles. It'd look like this with Double CAD.

Flyrant w/Electro
Flyrant w/Electro
Flyrant w/Electro
Flyrant w/Electro
Malanthrope
4x Ripper Broods with DS
30 Gargoyles (or 2x15, or 23 with Adrenal Glands)
2x Carnifex w/Devourers
Mawloc

At Mechanicon, I could easily run in to a 6+ Riptide list, with tons of SkyRays. I could run in to a plethora of things where Fexes will be dead before they bring their firepower to bear...they are super squishy.

In my list, how does everyone feel about 15x2 vs 23 AG? Normally yes, bodies over upgrades, but as a screening unit of 23 they can do that job as well as threaten vehicles. But 8 pt models in a screening unit isnt terrific either.

Either way I can modify my display board so that doesnt factor into my choice.

Forget about the AG on the gargoyles. Either 30 or 2x15. Personally, I prefer 30 for 2 reasons mainly. Firstly, if they reduce 1 unit of 15 to 5-7, then the opponent can effectively ignore it as a threat. Secondly, casting Catalyst on 30 is better than casting 2 Catalysts on 15+15. In other words, psychic buffs work better on 1 big unit.

Agreed. I would instead take a group of 20 Gargoyles, and substitute one group of rippers for 21 Hormagants. That gives you 2 large screens / tarpits, one of which is objective secured. It isn't going to beat 6 riptides (unless they are all ion-tides), but it will help you vs many things.

tag8833 wrote:
So, can you guys give me a little bit of an idea how a 3 canifex list Like this one:

Spoiler:

CAD:
Tyrant (Wings, 2 TL-Devourer, E. Grubs)
Tyrant (Wings, 2 TL-Devourer, E. Grubs)

Malanthrope
Malanthrope
Zoenthrope

13 Hormagants
12 Hormagants

20 Gargoyles

Carnifex (2 TL-Devourers)
Carnifex (2 TL-Devourers)
Carnifex (2 TL-Devourers)


Ally
Tyrant (Wings, 2 TL-Devourer, E. Grubs)

3 Rippers (DS)

Exocrine

Would do against an Adamantine Lance?

Ok, Tag, I can help you out. Today is your lucky day, because I'll also be showing examples of how to deploy against Adlance knights.

Disclaimer: This is NOT a battle report, but just an example of how you can deploy and play against multiple knights.


Deployment:


This is the enemy you will be facing today. Pardon the Bloodthirster, but he is a stand-in for one of my knights whom I am currently working on.

This is an actual 1850 Adlance list that I have ran before. It goes like this - 3 Imperial Knights, Farseer on Jetbike with the Mantle of the Laughing God, 2x3 Windrider Jetbikes and 2 Wraithknights. BTW, I've destroyed a seer council/mechdar army in both games that I played against them with this army.


Tyranid deployment.

I've deployed the flyrants centrally and all on the ruins within Malanthrope range (for 2+ cover without having to jink if shot at). BTW, the venomthrope is a stand-in for another Malanthrope (I've only got 1).

For Synapse, I deploy both Malanthropes more towards the flanks and the Zoanthrope in the center (a little further back).


To the left is 1 dakkafex. In the center is another dakkafex. Both dakkafexes are covered by the Malanthrope's Shrouding bubble.


To the right is a Malanthrope, then Exocrine (within the Malan's bubble) and finally to the far right is a dakkafex (out of Malan's bubble but hiding behind LOS-blocking terrain).


Overview of the deployment.

Make sure to spread out your units but try to keep as many of them as you can within the Malan's bubble of protection.


Tyranid 1


Here I do something very unorthodox. Unless you've got Onslaught, basically, your flyrants won't be able to hurt the knights Front armor with their devourers. Thus, I forego shooting and just move them forwards 24" and then run them. Flyers make for very good screeners because they cannot be assaulted unless they get grounded.

Make sure to put Catalyst on your flyrants (and if you have any Catalyst left over, I would recommend putting it on the gargoyle blob).

So why screen-out rather than shoot?

1. Shooting is very ineffectual at this point. Without Onslaught, you can't really get Side armor. Moreover, the knights have re-rollable 4++ Invuln's against your Electroshock Grubs because of the Adamantine Lance formation. No, it's better to try to control their Movement at this point and to set up for your Turn 2 Beta-strike (that's when you really pour on the offense).

2. You halt their advance and thus, slowing them down. This prevents them from getting Board Control.

3. In order to advance, they will have to break up and go around your flyrants. That means they will not be getting their Adamantine Lance bonuses if they do split up. This sets them up for your Turn 2 strike, where you can pick off the knight without the re-rollable save.


The rest of the army advances. They move and then run. No shooting this turn. It's all about getting into position to attempt a Turn 2 beta-strike.

Notice how I am spreading out my TMC's (Tyranid monstrous creatures) but making sure to keep them within the Malan's bubble.

NOTE: Beware of the knight's Assault threat range. You want to advance but you don't want to advance too aggressively just yet. I'm trying to stay about 20" away from the closest knight in open terrain.


To the right, I spread out as well, again, making sure to keep each TMC within the Malan's 6" bubble.


Finally, I run the far-right dakkafex. You won't be able to protect everyone, but at least the dakkafex will be getting cover from the hormagants and possibly Catalyst if there is any extra. Also, if the knights fire at him, they only get the dakkafex and a couple of gants, whereas if they fire at the other units, they get more targets. Thus, there is less incentive to fire at him because there is potentially less to kill.

In any case, I am willing to take the risk by exposing him. Like I said, you can't protect everyone and will have to accept potential losses.


What if the Knights go 1st?

If the knights go first, then all the better! You just need to weather 1 turn of shooting, but with the Malan's Shrouding bubbles, you definitely can survive their shooting.

Then when they advance, you can start your offense 1 turn earlier. If they advance, then most likely your flyrants will have range to move into and shoot side armor.

They will also be potentially moving into range of your tarpitting units as well as your carnifex counter-assault units. Thus, you can be sure that they won't be advancing too aggressively as well.


To sum up, I think the Tyranid list (Tag's list above) can absolutely handle the knights. It will take some finesse, smart tactics and probably some patience as well, but you can definitely take them on with what you've got.





Automatically Appended Next Post:

 SHUPPET wrote:

Spoiler:

 jy2 wrote:

 Hulksmash wrote:
Ignore the knights. Tear down the riptides and obsec troop units. A lot depends on your list and the mission. Normally I'd say play the mission too. Once the tides and obsec are gone then he has to split up to grab objectives and such. When that happens you can shred 1 knight a turn.

For example I run a Nid/Daemon list. But if I was running pure Nids I'd be inclined to go with skyblight and normal nids. I'd been considering running 3 Flyrants, 3 Crones, and 3 Harpies once you take the Skyblight. That should just shred knights since your crone's St8 vector is a random facing. Also good use of Onslaught helps kill knights too.

If you can find 25pts I recommend a venomthrope. But those last 15pts are hard to come by.

Be more concerned with the Riptide/Knight list that brings Riptides w/Velocity Tracker. That's a tougher one.

Listen to Hulksmash. He's a tournament-veteran and Tyranid player who knows what he is talking about. I will expound more on this later in my tactica.

I'd rather listen to logic, than the regular jy2 championing of anyone who's ever played with him ever in any tournament since the beginning of time Joking here btw. Well, only half joking.

Regardless, that advice is pretty specific to a FMC spam build and considering that Skyblight fell off hard and almost all of us have a good chunk of our army in ground units, do NOT blindly listen to this advice, as you want those Knights dead and then you p much just win so long as your entire army isn't decimated in the process.

It's ok to be skeptical. Logic and reasoning is definitely a good way to learn. Another way to learn is through experience or sometimes even by listening to those who have the experience. Now you probably don't know Hulksmash's credentials, but he has been playing competitively for a long time now (a lot longer than me). He's also been very successful in tournament play and have been to most of the major GT's here in the US. He's won a lot of tournaments, both the smaller ones as well as the larger GT's. Of course you don't have to agree with his (or mine's) advice, but when such a tournament veteran gives advice, I'd listen. I'm not saying you have to agree, but his advice is worth hearing out.

Hey hey I'm not saying its bad advice in fact once you get the context (full FMC list) its very accurate. I'm just saying that context needs to be highlighted first, because telling people to listen to that advice is likely to have them playing the match up the wrong way if they are running a more standard list.

I'd like you guys' opinion on building a 'Nidzilla list at 1500 points. Here's something I kicked up in a few minutes:



The basic idea would be to throw the Mawloc and Trygon at my enemies' deployment zone and basically just say "deal with this T6 12W anvil" while the hammer drops, hopefully unharassed, in the form of the three Carnifex and the Tyrant. The 'gaunts are mostly just aggregate wounds and possibly objective takers, though the Horamagunts could be pretty scurry if they manage to make it into assault with numbers intact.

So, I've never run an MC-heavy list with 'Nids before and any advice would be appreciated. The statutes that I'm working off of is that I'd like to keep the amount of FMC's to a very small minimum, no more than one to be honest, because I play in a very uncompetitve meta (lists like Unbound 10xPredators and Helbrute-spam are common) and I don't want to create situations where my opponents more or less have nothing to do in their own phases because 90% of their army has no way of hurting most of mine.

Beyond that, I'd like to be as optimized as possible.

The only worse models available to Tyranids than the Trygon, are the Swarmlord or the Dimae. Even the Pyrovore is better. Trygon is much worse than a Mawloc, and yet costs so many more points. Replacing him with a Mawloc will make you list objectively better, and open up more points for whatever you choose.

Triple Zoanthropes are bad, Warp Lance is retardedly unreliable and tripling down on it is the only reason to take 3 Zopes in one squad, and that will never be worth the 100 points.

Other than that I don't think there's anything too wrong with it, Hormagants and Terms are not better than more Dakkafexes or Biovores or an Exocrine, but if you want to use the models they aren't UNPLAYABLY bad ala Trygon. I personally would probably add some sort of upgrade either AG or TS, so at least they can glance the increasingly common AV10 rear armour, or put wounds on other MC's even Wraithknights, depending on which upgrade you pick. It at least gives them a role making them a little more versatile, even though it does make them less cost efficient in general combat against p much any sort of infantry.

All this advice is geared towards how it would perform against competitive more standardised builds, and only you can decide how much of it is relevant it is to your gameplay / how much horsepower you want to put behind your list. If you like the Trygon, use it - especially if your friends are using similar tier models. I quite enjoy less competitive games where I can have fun with gak like mass Lictors Hope this advice helps you Blaxican.

Thanks for the advice- I'm making some modifications.

Out of curiosity, what makes Trygons so terrible? Looking at them, the price is pretty insane, but with 7 strength 6 AP2 attacks on the charge and at WS5, they seem like they can wreck face really well.

I swapped out all the Zoanthropes for a second Walking dakka-Tyrant. I actually hate Zoanthropes in this edition myself, and only take them for the synapse. Considering that my Tyrants are walking instead of flying though, two of them seem like they should be able to handle all the synapse for the bulk of my army. What would you recommend for a decent troop composition, though? After fiddling around a bit, I've got a set up of 40 hormas split into two units of 20, with each unit having 10 AG's and 10 toxin sacks. It seems like the versatility from having a mix of upgrades in both squads would be helpful, but I'm wondering if it might not be smarter to just double down and give each unit uniform upgrades? 20 AG's for one unit to make it dedicated anti-GEQ/light AV and 20 TS's for dedicated anti-MC and high T units?

It's really the price that makes them so bad. If you were to hypothetically put the same amount of points into Mawlocs (its almost 3 Mawlocs for every 2 Trygons, and thats before you include the almost mandatory upgrades of either AG or TS for Trygon which aren't as important for Mawloc), the Mawlocs attack for the same amount of attacks on the charge as the Trygons albeit lower WS, except with 6 extra wounds as well as entering 3 re-rolling to wound S6 AP2 blasts. They are just much better models. Hell even at the same price the Mawloc is better, the days are gone of Trygons putting out 4 smash attacks on the charge and re-rolling 1s, they just not so good anymore.

 jy2 wrote:

Forget about the AG on the gargoyles. Either 30 or 2x15. Personally, I prefer 30 for 2 reasons mainly. Firstly, if they reduce 1 unit of 15 to 5-7, then the opponent can effectively ignore it as a threat. Secondly, casting Catalyst on 30 is better than casting 2 Catalysts on 15+15. In other words, psychic buffs work better on 1 big unit.

I can dig it, back to the testing board.

I dont WANT to move 30 gargoyles (or transport them) but I'm thinking Im going to need the tarpit and poison.

@ SHUPPET: What makes Adrenal Glands mandatory for a Trygon? It comes with fleet as is and the strength boost seems rather wasted against its preferred targets (i.e. infantry or other MCs) compared to poison.

Personally, the biggest problem I have with the Trygon is that it doesn't fill any real niche anymore. The Exocrine is better suited towards killing elite infantry and monsters, Mawlocs are better deep striking distractions (cheaper and deal their damage immediately), and the Dimachaeron is superior as a melee buzz saw. The tunnel can be situational useful though, in either Apocalypse (where you have complete control over your reserves) or with the endless swarm formation (allows respawns to return to the thick of the fighting).

 Iechine wrote:

I dont WANT to move 30 gargoyles (or transport them) but I'm thinking Im going to need the tarpit and poison.

You could replace them with Hormagaunts. They are a bit more transport friendly and they are cheaper, if slightly slower moving.

 Strat_N8 wrote:
@ SHUPPET: What makes Adrenal Glands mandatory for a Trygon? It comes with fleet as is and the strength boost seems rather wasted against its preferred targets (i.e. infantry or other MCs) compared to poison.

Personally, the biggest problem I have with the Trygon is that it doesn't fill any real niche anymore. The Exocrine is better suited towards killing elite infantry and monsters, Mawlocs are better deep striking distractions (cheaper and deal their damage immediately), and the Dimachaeron is superior as a melee buzz saw. The tunnel can be situational useful though, in either Apocalypse (where you have complete control over your reserves) or with the endless swarm formation (allows respawns to return to the thick of the fighting).

MC's being a preferred Trygon target as you said, TS adds absolutely nothing to any of the competitive ones bar Wraithknight... AG increases the chance to wound by one, against any of them incl WK. A combination of the two gives you re-rolls to wound . AG not mandatory, neither of them are, although I think with the investment of all those points into a Trygon is probably best followed up with TS for it, and AG if chosen.

I think Dima and Trygon are about equal on terms of badness. Trygon is far less likely to do NOTHING, the Dima however if it does do SOMETHING it does a lot. Both of them are an equal waste of points however.

 Strat_N8 wrote:


You could replace them with Hormagaunts. They are a bit more transport friendly and they are cheaper, if slightly slower moving.

Definitely no fan of Hormagaunts...transports not the issue.

 jy2 wrote:

tag8833 wrote:
So, can you guys give me a little bit of an idea how a 3 canifex list Like this one:

Spoiler:

CAD:
Tyrant (Wings, 2 TL-Devourer, E. Grubs)
Tyrant (Wings, 2 TL-Devourer, E. Grubs)

Malanthrope
Malanthrope
Zoenthrope

13 Hormagants
12 Hormagants

20 Gargoyles

Carnifex (2 TL-Devourers)
Carnifex (2 TL-Devourers)
Carnifex (2 TL-Devourers)


Ally
Tyrant (Wings, 2 TL-Devourer, E. Grubs)

3 Rippers (DS)

Exocrine

Would do against an Adamantine Lance?

Ok, Tag, I can help you out. Today is your lucky day, because I'll also be showing examples of how to deploy against Adlance knights.

Disclaimer: This is NOT a battle report, but just an example of how you can deploy and play against multiple knights.

I will remember that run trick. It works well to control the ad lance on turn 1.

With this matchup, I wish I had another 40-60 gribblies for a tarpit, and for board control.

Thank you for the feedback. My tournament coming up in a few weeks is likely going to be my first chance to see an ad-lance in action, and on paper they seem pretty scary.

Why are people saying the Skylight Formation "has fallen off hard" is it simply because of the change to FMC flight modes? This doesn't seem to stop people from taking double and triple flyrants in other builds.

Obsec and endless swarm gargoyles seems like its still pretty good especially if maelstrom objectives are being used.

The Harpy and Crone tax, mainly. Theres no hammer behind them any more, so the Tyrants have to do all the heavy lifting.

Which is weird because Harpies and Crones are still pretty darn good. Especially combined with Obsec Gargs that come back on a 4+ and another Hive Tyrant.

Generally in my 2-source list the Harpies are additional anti-infantry between the bombs and large blast, the 3-4 Crones I take are excellent vehicle/flyer hunters, and the 3 Flyrants are the all rounders. All while having an insane amount of obsec troops.

 D6Damager wrote:
Why are people saying the Skylight Formation "has fallen off hard" is it simply because of the change to FMC flight modes? This doesn't seem to stop people from taking double and triple flyrants in other builds.

Obsec and endless swarm gargoyles seems like its still pretty good especially if maelstrom objectives are being used.

Skyblight is still good. It isn't the top-tier tournament winner that it used to be back in 6th, but it is still a very strong Tyranid build. One of the reasons why it is still effective is because the meta has shifted once again. Currently, all the attention has gone back towards MSU-mech and Imperial Knights. Other than Necrons, all the other top competitive builds are ground builds. Thus, armies have shifted once again towards dealing with those amry builds over flyer builds. Also, while the offense has gone down, the resiliency of flying MC's have gone up, thus making them harder to stop.

 Hulksmash wrote:
Which is weird because Harpies and Crones are still pretty darn good. Especially combined with Obsec Gargs that come back on a 4+ and another Hive Tyrant.

Generally in my 2-source list the Harpies are additional anti-infantry between the bombs and large blast, the 3-4 Crones I take are excellent vehicle/flyer hunters, and the 3 Flyrants are the all rounders. All while having an insane amount of obsec troops.

How many points do you play? Skyblight and with 3-4 crones? That's a huge amount of flyers (and points invested into them)....

It's 3-4 Crones Total, not in addition too I play 1850. Basically you're looking in general at 3 Flyrants, 3-4 Crones, 2 Harpies. The 4th Crone is based on if you want to take malenthropes/venomthropes to keep you dudes alive in an alpha strike.

It is a large number of flyers (8-9). But honestly unless you hit the speedbump that is Riptides supported by Skyray's it's solid against most any list.

List looks something like:

3 Flyrants
3 Crones
2 Harpies
3x10 Gargoyles
2x3 DS Rippers

and

1 Venomthrope and 2 Zoans

or

1 Malanthrope, Hive Commander on a Tyrant, and a unit of Gants

or

4th Crone

Yesterday I went to an RTT and only got to play one round before work called with an 'emergency' (I was technically on duty so I couldnt just say no I was busy).

But I did get stomped by a list that looked like

Commander
3x Piranha
Riptide
Riptide
Riptide (all with precision/no ions)
3x SkyRays
3x Crisis Suit
5x Legion of the Damned melta/grav
5x Legion of the Damned melta/grav
5x Legion of the Damned melta/grav
5x Legion of the Damned melta/grav

Probably missing some stuff but thats the rough outline.
I wish I had batreped it because it was one of those games where everything went wrong, from rolling triple 1's for my carnifex brood's difficult terrain turn 1 to my Mawloc mishapping and rolling a 1, to me periling every psychic phase, etc. Even with having a non useful list against his I was further boned over by dice, and by turn 5 I was tabled.

Flyrant's arent hurt as badly by vehicle damage chart changes and vektor strike changes, like Harpy and Crone are. Harpy was never really that great to begin with, and Crone felt the brunt of p much every nerf available. S8 vector strike from 3 hits to 1? Check. Chance to get an explode even if he did still get 2-4 Vektor Strike hits + 1-2 Haywire hits a turn ? Nope, single chance with the VS if you are lucky enough to get a pen with S8. Is he at least still able to glide down to a squad if he swooped the turn before, template them and then follow up with an assault? Nope, apparently assault needed to be further nerfed for us. When he does make it to combat, can he at least still get his 3 Smash attacks to help him in his suicide AT role? Nah, lets get rid of that too. Hmmm everything in the game is scoring? Sure, we can make Land Raiders scoring, hell even make them Objective Secured for all we care - FMCs? Nah, screw that. They can mini-Score if they want to sacrifice the survivability and speed they pay insane amounts for. But hey, at least they only have to take 1 grounding check a turn, right?



And right next to all this, ground lists got the incredible tool of rerolling for Master of Ambush Warlord trait, and Carnifexes remain just as good against vehicles as ever, giving you back the map control lost by the Smash nerf, with very little tradeoff since they are an amazing Dakka platform.


On top of this, you no longer always need Skyblight to take more than 2 Flyrants, with dual CADs being available some places, as well as the unique Objective Secured rule from Gargoyles now being available en masse to every single army.

Skyblight fell off hard. You can argue that it's still playable, it's undeniable however, that it fell off, hard.

 Iechine wrote:
Yesterday I went to an RTT and only got to play one round before work called with an 'emergency' (I was technically on duty so I couldnt just say no I was busy).

But I did get stomped by a list that looked like

Commander
3x Piranha
Riptide
Riptide
Riptide (all with precision/no ions)
3x SkyRays
3x Crisis Suit
5x Legion of the Damned melta/grav
5x Legion of the Damned melta/grav
5x Legion of the Damned melta/grav
5x Legion of the Damned melta/grav

Probably missing some stuff but thats the rough outline.
I wish I had batreped it because it was one of those games where everything went wrong, from rolling triple 1's for my carnifex brood's difficult terrain turn 1 to my Mawloc mishapping and rolling a 1, to me periling every psychic phase, etc. Even with having a non useful list against his I was further boned over by dice, and by turn 5 I was tabled.

Ah, my buddy Gonyo's list Yeah, that's the kind of list I'm terrified of if I go flyer heavy.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
@Shuppet

I disagree with your assessment of the Crone, Harpy, and Gargoyles with obsec

Show me another unit in the Nid book that comes back on a 4+, can deepstrike, moves 12" a turn without running, and has obsec. You can't, they are awesome.

Harpy is a harassment/small unit killer. He's solid for dropping bombs and throwing 5" templates at people. Additionally he's ok once he gets to the backfield and lands, especially in a pair. He's a 135pt FMC. Wanna know the cheapest FMC you can get with daemons? 190 w/no psychic powers, no shooting attacks, less armor, with a 5+ invul, higher WS & A but less wounds.

Crones are simply awesome. They are utility units. Need to strip the last hull point off a vehicle? Missiles. Need to take out that flyer or FMC? Vector Strike. Easy way to remove thunderfires? Vector Strike. Troops in Cover? Flamer. Same back field shenanigans apply to him as to the harpy. He can land and lay some pain in groups as well.

While I like walking Nids (have tons of Carnies, Mawlocs, Trygons, swarms of small bugs, raveners, warriors w/ and w/out wings, biovores, tyrano's and on and on) I think the best list I can play currently revolves around FMC's and if i'm playing pure bugs Skyblight. I think walking Nids are just to slow in general. You might be able to keep a Malanthrope/Venomthrope alive for a turn agaisnt most armies but the multiple turns needed to get stuck in isn't likely. And once they go so do the big bugs against most armies.

I personally didn't see Skyblight fall off hard but that's probably because I only ever saw one event allow it and it was used. So to me something needs to be seen regularly to fall off hard. That said use of skyblight depends completely on rules for events. All events in the US have gone predominantly 1 Combined Arms Detachment. So assuming that. 2-detachment w/no self-ally and no come the apoc allies? Skyblight. 2 detachments w/Self Ally and no CtA Allies? No Skyblight. 2 Detachments w/CtA Allies? No Skyblight. 3 Detachments? Skyblight.

 Iechine wrote:
Yesterday I went to an RTT and only got to play one round before work called with an 'emergency' (I was technically on duty so I couldnt just say no I was busy).

But I did get stomped by a list that looked like

Commander
3x Piranha
Riptide
Riptide
Riptide (all with precision/no ions)
3x SkyRays
3x Crisis Suit
5x Legion of the Damned melta/grav
5x Legion of the Damned melta/grav
5x Legion of the Damned melta/grav
5x Legion of the Damned melta/grav

Probably missing some stuff but thats the rough outline.
I wish I had batreped it because it was one of those games where everything went wrong, from rolling triple 1's for my carnifex brood's difficult terrain turn 1 to my Mawloc mishapping and rolling a 1, to me periling every psychic phase, etc. Even with having a non useful list against his I was further boned over by dice, and by turn 5 I was tabled.

That list is Terrifying. I don't know why it isn't more common, it is so incredibly powerful. They Skyray is better than a wave serpent at killing Tyranids, and just as survivable.

I've personally never seen an unbound game played...so that might be a factor.

It wasnt unbound, I dont think I have the whole list there.

 Iechine wrote:
Yesterday I went to an RTT and only got to play one round before work called with an 'emergency' (I was technically on duty so I couldnt just say no I was busy).

But I did get stomped by a list that looked like

Commander
3x Piranha
Riptide
Riptide
Riptide (all with precision/no ions)
3x SkyRays
3x Crisis Suit
5x Legion of the Damned melta/grav
5x Legion of the Damned melta/grav
5x Legion of the Damned melta/grav
5x Legion of the Damned melta/grav

Probably missing some stuff but thats the rough outline.
I wish I had batreped it because it was one of those games where everything went wrong, from rolling triple 1's for my carnifex brood's difficult terrain turn 1 to my Mawloc mishapping and rolling a 1, to me periling every psychic phase, etc. Even with having a non useful list against his I was further boned over by dice, and by turn 5 I was tabled.

The list appears to missing a 2nd Tau troop.

IMO, your list has what it takes to take on the Tau/LotD list. It was just bad dice that did it in.

 ductvader wrote:
I've personally never seen an unbound game played...so that might be a factor.

The LotD is probably a formation. Tau primary. LotD formation.

Hulksmash you are completely missing he point of what I'm saying. I couldn't care less if there is units in Skyblight that are completely different fron other units in the dex, every unit in the dex is different and has an intended role, my point is that those ObjSec Gargs are now worse in 7th as every other codex suddenly got units that can contest with them. Harpies worse, Crones worse, etc. you either disagreeing with something other than my assessment, or you are being oblivious to change, because as I said, my assessment isn't that they are unplayable, just that they are all significantly worse than last edition, aka, fell off.

@Thread in general

The Tau list has a second single suit. It's Farsight Enclave. It's a 2-detachment army using the LotD "codex" as the second detachment (i.e. 1-4 LotD Squads).

@Shuppet

Not worth it. Agree to disagree.

How the hell do you think in light of all the changes, that any of those models got stronger?

 Hulksmash wrote:
Not worth it. Agree to disagree.

 SHUPPET wrote:
How the hell do you think in light of all the changes, that any of those models got stronger?

Woah there, just calm yourself, we're all entitled to our opinions.

Uhh yeah? And I'm just sharing mine? And questioning a statement while requesting some or any supporting logic?

Sharing and questioning are a long shot off from the demeaning tone you put forth.

We've only managed to get 179 pages into a thread due to civil conversation and understanding of different playstyles and opinions.