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The tone was (quite clearly) expressing incredulity. This is not going to get the thread shut down or even looked at, you know that as well as I do, so stop bogging it down with this crap and let the question go either answered or unanswered. If you put forward a statement saying, "hey I see your 2 paragraphs of reasoned out logic right there, just letting you know that I disagree with it entirely", but give no supporting logic of your own aside from "agree to disagree", then you should expect to have some sort of incredulous, questioning response.

 Hulksmash wrote:
Not worth it. Agree to disagree.

Ditto.

Exactly as I said.

Anyway, hopefully Im going to have a lot of batreps in October.

On the 4th, the wife and I are doing a local team tournament where Ill take bugs. 24th-25th I'm going to mechanicon for my first GT, and the last weekend there is a local Highlander tournament that Im particularly looking forward to due to the variety in lists.

 jy2 wrote:

 Iechine wrote:
Yesterday I went to an RTT and only got to play one round before work called with an 'emergency' (I was technically on duty so I couldnt just say no I was busy).

But I did get stomped by a list that looked like

Commander
3x Piranha
Riptide
Riptide
Riptide (all with precision/no ions)
3x SkyRays
3x Crisis Suit
5x Legion of the Damned melta/grav
5x Legion of the Damned melta/grav
5x Legion of the Damned melta/grav
5x Legion of the Damned melta/grav

Probably missing some stuff but thats the rough outline.
I wish I had batreped it because it was one of those games where everything went wrong, from rolling triple 1's for my carnifex brood's difficult terrain turn 1 to my Mawloc mishapping and rolling a 1, to me periling every psychic phase, etc. Even with having a non useful list against his I was further boned over by dice, and by turn 5 I was tabled.

The list appears to missing a 2nd Tau troop.

IMO, your list has what it takes to take on the Tau/LotD list. It was just bad dice that did it in.

I have faced 3 Skyray, 3 burstide before. Maybe if you get 1st turn you might be able to force all the skyrays to jink, and if your tourney rules on seeker missiles the way that BAO did, and if none of the burstides have skyfire, then you might survive the game, but if you lose first turn, you are also losing 2-3 flyrants before you get to move them. One skyray can kill a flyrant if it gets ignore cover. That require 2 marker lights to hit. They hit on 3's and there are 6 of them in this list. so Statistically 4 should hit. That is before the bursttides even shoot. Turn 2 the Skyrays are taking out another flyrant. You've got no expectation of being able to kill them because of their 3+ Jink save.

The Skyray is insanely cheap for what it brings to the table, and can kill TMC's easily (Flying or not).

tag8833 wrote:

 jy2 wrote:

 Iechine wrote:
Yesterday I went to an RTT and only got to play one round before work called with an 'emergency' (I was technically on duty so I couldnt just say no I was busy).

But I did get stomped by a list that looked like

Commander
3x Piranha
Riptide
Riptide
Riptide (all with precision/no ions)
3x SkyRays
3x Crisis Suit
5x Legion of the Damned melta/grav
5x Legion of the Damned melta/grav
5x Legion of the Damned melta/grav
5x Legion of the Damned melta/grav

Probably missing some stuff but thats the rough outline.
I wish I had batreped it because it was one of those games where everything went wrong, from rolling triple 1's for my carnifex brood's difficult terrain turn 1 to my Mawloc mishapping and rolling a 1, to me periling every psychic phase, etc. Even with having a non useful list against his I was further boned over by dice, and by turn 5 I was tabled.

The list appears to missing a 2nd Tau troop.

IMO, your list has what it takes to take on the Tau/LotD list. It was just bad dice that did it in.

I have faced 3 Skyray, 3 burstide before. Maybe if you get 1st turn you might be able to force all the skyrays to jink, and if your tourney rules on seeker missiles the way that BAO did, and if none of the burstides have skyfire, then you might survive the game, but if you lose first turn, you are also losing 2-3 flyrants before you get to move them. One skyray can kill a flyrant if it gets ignore cover. That require 2 marker lights to hit. They hit on 3's and there are 6 of them in this list. so Statistically 4 should hit. That is before the bursttides even shoot. Turn 2 the Skyrays are taking out another flyrant. You've got no expectation of being able to kill them because of their 3+ Jink save.

The Skyray is insanely cheap for what it brings to the table, and can kill TMC's easily (Flying or not).

This is the issue I have with Flyrants, and why I never run more than 2 - they are so expensive and sometimes, they are far less survivable than even a Mawloc. In this situation, would reserving the Flyrants maybe be an option? It would mean that they aren't shooting turn 1, but at least they are guaranteed their shots, and come into play needing 6's for marker lights to hit. Just a consideration, might not actually be worth watering down for.

 SHUPPET wrote:
Hulksmash you are completely missing he point of what I'm saying. I couldn't care less if there is units in Skyblight that are completely different fron other units in the dex, every unit in the dex is different and has an intended role, my point is that those ObjSec Gargs are now worse in 7th as every other codex suddenly got units that can contest with them. Harpies worse, Crones worse, etc. you either disagreeing with something other than my assessment, or you are being oblivious to change, because as I said, my assessment isn't that they are unplayable, just that they are all significantly worse than last edition, aka, fell off.

@Shuppet

It's not so much as to whether the individual units got better or worse. It's more like the whole army still works because of the meta. Back in 6th, as powerful as Skyblight (and FMC Daemons were), other competitive armies were more geared towards fighting them as well. Well, now in 7th, the meta has shifted. The new top dogs aren't the flyer armies anymore. They are the serpent-spam Eldar, the seer council/beaststar/centurionstar/deathstar army, MSU-mech, AV13 Necrons, drop pod ObSec marines, the daemon-summoning armies and Imperial Knights. Thus, armies have shifted as well to be able to deal with these new threats. In a ways, they are actually now less prepared to deal with Skyblight than before, and that isn't even counting on how much harder it has become to ground and to kill the new FMC's.

Also, while the offensive prowess of harpies/hive crones have diminished, they still have a role to play in the army. They might not be as good as they used to be offensively, but they are still role-players who can contribute to the Tyranid offense. You can't really expect it to be an army of All-stars anymore. The only All-stars are the flyrants. The other supporting "players" have to find their role and then execute it. You just have to play them more tactically than before, but it can still be done. Most armies will still have infantry that the FMC's can go after. Most armies will still have tanks where the FMC's can direct their shooting towards.

Now why does builds like Skyblight still excel even though some of the units have faltered (compared to the previous edition)? That is because Skyblight is an anti-meta army. It is the proverbial monkey wrench tournament build that some of the armies may come up against. It is a denial army that will give many armies problems. Yeah, have fun shooting at my FMC's or my respawning gargoyles. Either ways, I really don't care all that much. It is a denial army because there is no soft target for the enemy to shoot at (other than the 1 zoan/venom/malanthrope in the army). The rest are either flying, in reserves coming in all over the table or respawning gargoyles. It is also a very fluid army thanks to its high mobility and its ability to pick off targets of opportunity and then to redirect its offense. You can't catch it. You can't assault it (at least not the units that matter). Offensively, it isn't as good as it was in the previous edition. However, it's become more of a problem matchup in this edition than before due to the fact that the FMC's have become more survivable. That, combined with its excellent mobility, means that it can still do well in the competitive scene and is one of those armies that will give certain armies fits to play against.

tag8833 wrote:

 jy2 wrote:

 Iechine wrote:
Yesterday I went to an RTT and only got to play one round before work called with an 'emergency' (I was technically on duty so I couldnt just say no I was busy).

But I did get stomped by a list that looked like

Commander
3x Piranha
Riptide
Riptide
Riptide (all with precision/no ions)
3x SkyRays
3x Crisis Suit
5x Legion of the Damned melta/grav
5x Legion of the Damned melta/grav
5x Legion of the Damned melta/grav
5x Legion of the Damned melta/grav

Probably missing some stuff but thats the rough outline.
I wish I had batreped it because it was one of those games where everything went wrong, from rolling triple 1's for my carnifex brood's difficult terrain turn 1 to my Mawloc mishapping and rolling a 1, to me periling every psychic phase, etc. Even with having a non useful list against his I was further boned over by dice, and by turn 5 I was tabled.

The list appears to missing a 2nd Tau troop.

IMO, your list has what it takes to take on the Tau/LotD list. It was just bad dice that did it in.

I have faced 3 Skyray, 3 burstide before. Maybe if you get 1st turn you might be able to force all the skyrays to jink, and if your tourney rules on seeker missiles the way that BAO did, and if none of the burstides have skyfire, then you might survive the game, but if you lose first turn, you are also losing 2-3 flyrants before you get to move them. One skyray can kill a flyrant if it gets ignore cover. That require 2 marker lights to hit. They hit on 3's and there are 6 of them in this list. so Statistically 4 should hit. That is before the bursttides even shoot. Turn 2 the Skyrays are taking out another flyrant. You've got no expectation of being able to kill them because of their 3+ Jink save.

The Skyray is insanely cheap for what it brings to the table, and can kill TMC's easily (Flying or not).

I agree. This list is a tough matchup for FMC nids because it is a great natural counter to flyer armies in general (not to say that it isn't a great TAC army as well, because it is). Against this type of list, you almost always NEED to go 1st unless there is a huge LOS-blocking piece of terrain in your deployment zone. Either that or you will need to start a part of your army off in reserves. I believe it can be beaten, but it will always be an uphill battle and you will need a little bit of luck (and certain factors going for you).

It's because of these types of armies why I bring the bastion with me. With the Comms Relay, it gives me the flexibility to start a part of my army off in reserves if I have to. Meanwhile, I bubble-wrap the bastion with my gribblies (gargoyles) to protect against drop podding meltas or similar type armies.

That reads to me of a really long winded way of agreeing that they got a bit worse this edition.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Which is, once again, all I'm saying.

 SHUPPET wrote:
That reads to me of a really long winded way of agreeing that they got a bit worse this edition.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Which is, once again, all I'm saying.

Yes, but not in the way that you are implying. They didn't get worse because hive crones and harpies got nerfed offensively. That is offset by their increased resiliency from the flyer rules. This has only shifted the army build from a more offensive-oriented army to a more defensive-oriented army. Where they got hit with the nerfbat mainly is that they lost exclusivity to being the only ObSec army. That was one of the main advantages back then. At least they've still got respawning units.

I'll for sure agree nid FMC are durable as hell with the new grounding test, jink, and malanthrope support, but arguing they weren't significantly nerfed isn't really going to get a lot of traction.

Taking 1 Grounding test a turn doesn't make up for the fact that they have very little reason to be in your army in the first place, no matter how durable. I can't see it as anything but a nerf, but I guess theres no convincing some. Most people refused to admit that the Tervigon was trashtier after the changes as well for a long time, I guess we'll look back in 6 more months and see who is still running Crones as well lol


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I don't want them to suck, I put a lot of time into my custom ones, just for them to sit on the shelves

I can't even spam them in less competitive games because anything that needs 6's to hit people don't want to see in a friendly game, regardless of how trashy they are lol


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 gigasnail wrote:
I'll for sure agree nid FMC are durable as hell with the new grounding test, jink, and malanthrope support, but arguing they weren't significantly nerfed isn't really going to get a lot of traction.

Yah I'll agree with this entirely. They were changed, bad in some ways, good in others, but its a pretty hard sell to say that they are overall more useful after the changes. Definitely got worse.

No one ever said that they got more "useful" after the changes and no one ever claimed that they are better than before. What I am saying is that despite the nerfing they took in 7th, they are still a competitive Tyranid build that can still give a lot of armies problems in competitive play.

 SHUPPET wrote:
Taking 1 Grounding test a turn doesn't make up for the fact that they have very little reason to be in your army in the first place, no matter how durable

To be fair, whether they have reason or not to be in a list depends entirely on the composition of said list. For instance, if I remember correctly you usually run a list built around Living Artillery. In such a list a Harpy is mostly redundant, since the formation easily covers accurate anti-hoard firepower at range and offers a good deal of pinning firepower. In a more aggressive swarm where such a firebase would detract from the rest of the list, a Harpy or two can cover those functions while maintaining the fast-moving theme.

That's true, LA is something I include in p much every list, and TL pinning Biovores make a Harpy quite redundant... Harpy I do think is maybe the better of the two... but I don't know, neither of them seem to be focused enough to actually make back their cost in points... and the fact that we CAN take so much better pinning that Harpys makes them hard to justify for me...

The crones however are even worse, they would fit fine with Living Artillery builds if they did their job a bit better, they were never top notch but now they are alot worse and have no real place in any TAC lists imo unless specifically tailoring against certain builds, they won't ever be close to worthwhile the points investment unless your opponent dedicates all firepower their way instead of at Flyrants (stupidly) and you get to jink it off all game.

It's an interesting discussion. I've read some of JY2 reports on how his Sky Blight has done on the competition scene . How has your theory worked out in competitor mode Shuppet?

Frankly I don't see either as being competitive, and neither makes a person want to play Nids.

Park a barbed Hierodule behind an ADL with a Malenthrope and Swarmlord with guard around it. Then you will start to crush the competition.

Stormbreed wrote:
It's an interesting discussion. I've read some of JY2 reports on how his Sky Blight has done on the competition scene . How has your theory worked out in competitor mode Shuppet?

Frankly I don't see either as being competitive, and neither makes a person want to play Nids.

I read his reports too and he did very well using sound tactics against strong armies (except the game where he forgot his psychic powers...and the fact he couldn't get his Mawloc to land on target in any game...those things just happen though). From reading those reports the fact the gargoyles get recycled and deepstrike back in seems like the real advantage to Skyblight IMO. I'd rather have highly mobile, deepstriking, recycling gargs than gaunts and gants or ripper swarms.

I also agree that the meta has shifted away from anti-flyer tech which may give the formation a leg up. I think most tournament players have just given up on Nids so we probably won't see it in effect.

Well I'll be running Nids FMC w/Daemon Allies at the Michigan GT next weekend and likely the same or Nids + Skyblight at the Renegade Open GT in November. I'll let you guys know how it goes.

Current list has 5 Nid FMC's and 1 Daemon FMC. Not quite up to the 8 to 9 I can get with pure Nids but I think it's solid.

I don't know where our local "meta" stands right now, but I would like some advice, what type of list would you bring for this situation:

From around 20-30 players we have:
Lot of Dark Angels ( both DW and RW with devas), Space Wolves (TWC and podded dread craze), MSU-mech SM,
Some CSM, or CSM/Daemon. 2-3 Daemons, only 1 eldar wave spam army, 1 tau farsight, 1 de/eldar.

IG are coming up and strangely, some tyranids too.

No Knights at all, no LoW.

So what should I build for, FMC circus or dakkarant+dakkafex?

Tyrpak wrote:
I don't know where our local "meta" stands right now, but I would like some advice, what type of list would you bring for this situation:

From around 20-30 players we have:
Lot of Dark Angels ( both DW and RW with devas), Space Wolves (TWC and podded dread craze), MSU-mech SM,
Some CSM, or CSM/Daemon. 2-3 Daemons, only 1 eldar wave spam army, 1 tau farsight, 1 de/eldar.

IG are coming up and strangely, some tyranids too.

No Knights at all, no LoW.

So what should I build for, FMC circus or dakkarant+dakkafex?

What type of tournaments do they run? Single CAD + allies? Self-allying allowed? Double-CAD? Whichever, maximize on the number of Dakka Flyrants (Winged Tyrants with 2x Brainleech Devourers and Electroshock Grubs) that is allowed. Bring 3 if self-allying is allowed. Bring 4 if double-CAD. Flyrants are our most consistent performers and also our most flexible. You can't go wrong with them. If you've got the points, then also bring a formation like Living Artillery. I personally like Skyblight but it is a large investment in points (800+ pts). Also bring at least 1 venomthrope (or if FW is allowed, bring the even better malanthrope instead). Finally, it can't hurt to bring shooty units like the dakkafex.

Here are 2 keywords that I follow when I build my lists - MOBILE FIREPOWER. If it's mobile or if it's got good firepower, then you can't lose. If it's got BOTH mobility AND firepower, then it's a winner.





Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Hulksmash wrote:
Well I'll be running Nids FMC w/Daemon Allies at the Michigan GT next weekend and likely the same or Nids + Skyblight at the Renegade Open GT in November. I'll let you guys know how it goes.

Current list has 5 Nid FMC's and 1 Daemon FMC. Not quite up to the 8 to 9 I can get with pure Nids but I think it's solid.

I'm jealous. Here in the West Coast, we can't bring Come the Apocalypse allies.

@Jy2

I know. I harped on Reece at Nova about it I told him if he's going to outlaw CtA he should outlaw BB as well

It's really, really solid to mix Nid FMC's with Daemon Summoning. So good. Also having played them together I understand fully why Nids were the only book not to get access to Daemonology.

Stormbreed wrote:
It's an interesting discussion. I've read some of JY2 reports on how his Sky Blight has done on the competition scene . How has your theory worked out in competitor mode Shuppet?

Frankly I don't see either as being competitive, and neither makes a person want to play Nids.

Park a barbed Hierodule behind an ADL with a Malenthrope and Swarmlord with guard around it. Then you will start to crush the competition.

I'd have to disagree. Static bugs is not the way to play. That is one of the reasons why I don't take the ADL, because it encourages you to stay behind it and to not advance. If you run Barbie+Malan+Swarmy, you don't just park them behind an ADL. You have to advance them as soon as you can.

Frankly, to me, a non-mobile Tyranid army is just bug-feed for Tau and Eldar.

After a very long hiatus from 40k, an even longer hiatus from Tyranids, and an aborted attempt to sell my nids (really wishing I didnt sell off my 9 Lictors + Deathleaper), Ive been bit by the bug (no pun intended). Playing a 2500 pt game this thursday, im taking:
Swarmlord
Hive Tyrant, Wings, Hive Commander
3x 30 Hormagaunts
2x 9 Shrikes w/ double Scytal
9 Shrikes w/ Scytal, Boneswords and Lash Whips
2x Carnifexes w/ Bioplasma
Trygon Prime

There were a couple misc upgrades in there to round out the points, nothing really important.

For those that dont know (i.e. - all of you) I play an almost exclusively close combat nids army. I dont bother with anything with a gun, the only ranged attacks im comfortable with are psychic powers, bioplasma, trygon electric eel shenanigans, and things like the biovore/exocrine, etc. where the weapon is fused into the body itself. It puts me at a serious disadvantage vs flyers, but what can you do?

Wish me luck!

 Hulksmash wrote:
@Jy2

I know. I harped on Reece at Nova about it I told him if he's going to outlaw CtA he should outlaw BB as well

It's really, really solid to mix Nid FMC's with Daemon Summoning. So good. Also having played them together I understand fully why Nids were the only book not to get access to Daemonology.

I'm going to have to try it out here. I see soooo many possiblities between Nids and Daemon summoning. That's a downright scary combo.

chaos0xomega wrote:
After a very long hiatus from 40k, an even longer hiatus from Tyranids, and an aborted attempt to sell my nids (really wishing I didnt sell off my 9 Lictors + Deathleaper), Ive been bit by the bug (no pun intended). Playing a 2500 pt game this thursday, im taking:
Swarmlord
Hive Tyrant, Wings, Hive Commander
3x 30 Hormagaunts
2x 9 Shrikes w/ double Scytal
9 Shrikes w/ Scytal, Boneswords and Lash Whips
2x Carnifexes w/ Bioplasma
Trygon Prime

There were a couple misc upgrades in there to round out the points, nothing really important.

For those that dont know (i.e. - all of you) I play an almost exclusively close combat nids army. I dont bother with anything with a gun, the only ranged attacks im comfortable with are psychic powers, bioplasma, trygon electric eel shenanigans, and things like the biovore/exocrine, etc. where the weapon is fused into the body itself. It puts me at a serious disadvantage vs flyers, but what can you do?

Wish me luck!

Good luck!

One thing you may want to consider for a CC bug list are a couple of venomthropes (or the FW Malanthrope) in your list. Also, consider giving your flyrant that special CC wargear (forgot what it's called) to make him even more bad-a$$. Cheers.

Finally, if you want to run solely CC, you may want to consider proxying a dimachaeron in your army. That guy is a brute in combat, even better than Swarmy.

Oh, and 1 last thing. Give your double scytal shrikes rending claws instead. Right now, double scytal no longer gives you re-roll to hit in CC. Rending claws are much superior.

I am curious to see how the loss of the baron impacts the meta. How many eldar lists had the baron a 5 man kalabite squad and the beast pack. Death stars with out hit and run can be tar pitted by our little gibblers.

I have been playing bugs since 94 and after a few years away I am coming back to my 40k roots.

A quick question. Can a core of two fly rants 4 dakka flexes and two ripper swarms be competitive? The meta I am playing in for next few months allows no forgeworld no formations or strongpoint/escalation. Basically only the CAD is valid. Will my core have a chance? Not sure what to fill it out with besides a venomthrope.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Hulksmash wrote:
@Jy2

I know. I harped on Reece at Nova about it I told him if he's going to outlaw CtA he should outlaw BB as well

It's really, really solid to mix Nid FMC's with Daemon Summoning. So good. Also having played them together I understand fully why Nids were the only book not to get access to Daemonology.

Hulk would you do LOC and 11 horrors or multiple horror units or keep it cheap and do an LOC and min unit of nurglings?

 jy2 wrote:
[quote=Hulksmash 572843 7241048 4e681ae9d4a5e5698f08e852a025570

chaos0xomega wrote:
After a very long hiatus from 40k, an even longer hiatus from Tyranids, and an aborted attempt to sell my nids (really wishing I didnt sell off my 9 Lictors + Deathleaper), Ive been bit by the bug (no pun intended). Playing a 2500 pt game this thursday, im taking:
Swarmlord
Hive Tyrant, Wings, Hive Commander
3x 30 Hormagaunts
2x 9 Shrikes w/ double Scytal
9 Shrikes w/ Scytal, Boneswords and Lash Whips
2x Carnifexes w/ Bioplasma
Trygon Prime

There were a couple misc upgrades in there to round out the points, nothing really important.

For those that dont know (i.e. - all of you) I play an almost exclusively close combat nids army. I dont bother with anything with a gun, the only ranged attacks im comfortable with are psychic powers, bioplasma, trygon electric eel shenanigans, and things like the biovore/exocrine, etc. where the weapon is fused into the body itself. It puts me at a serious disadvantage vs flyers, but what can you do?

Wish me luck!

Good luck!

One thing you may want to consider for a CC bug list are a couple of venomthropes (or the FW Malanthrope) in your list. Also, consider giving your flyrant that special CC wargear (forgot what it's called) to make him even more bad-a$$. Cheers.

Finally, if you want to run solely CC, you may want to consider proxying a dimachaeron in your army. That guy is a brute in combat, even better than Swarmy.

Oh, and 1 last thing. Give your double scytal shrikes rending claws instead. Right now, double scytal no longer gives you re-roll to hit in CC. Rending claws are much superior.

Yea, my Venomthropes have been sitting on a shelf in a friends basement for a few years now, going to have to ask him to mail them to me sinxe I dojt anticipate making the three hour drive to pick em up anytime soon.

And yea, i realized right after I posted that dropping the bio plasma would free up enough points for me to run rending claws, so thats going to happen lol.

And yeah, Ive heard good things of the Dimachaeron, its on my to-buy list, but for right now ill stick with what i have.

@NightWrench

In my list I actually do a Keeper of Secrets naked at level 3, 13 horrors, and a Slaanesh DP naked w/only wings, one greater gift (for whip), and level 3.

Gives me 3 summoning platforms, an extra almost flyrant, and a solid number of WC's. Combined with Nids ability to take single unit WC2 Zoan's for 50pts I'm sitting between 16 and 18 WC in my standard lists.

 jy2 wrote:
What type of tournaments do they run? Single CAD + allies? Self-allying allowed? Double-CAD? Whichever, maximize on the number of Dakka Flyrants (Winged Tyrants with 2x Brainleech Devourers and Electroshock Grubs) that is allowed. Bring 3 if self-allying is allowed. Bring 4 if double-CAD. Flyrants are our most consistent performers and also our most flexible. You can't go wrong with them. If you've got the points, then also bring a formation like Living Artillery. I personally like Skyblight but it is a large investment in points (800+ pts). Also bring at least 1 venomthrope (or if FW is allowed, bring the even better malanthrope instead). Finally, it can't hurt to bring shooty units like the dakkafex.

Here are 2 keywords that I follow when I build my lists - MOBILE FIREPOWER. If it's mobile or if it's got good firepower, then you can't lose. If it's got BOTH mobility AND firepower, then it's a winner.

TCO caved in, and allowed self-allying for everyone, on tyranid pressure. No double-CAD, only 1 ally, OR 1 formation.

Either with self-ally, or with Skyblight, 3rd flyrant is already in.
I had success with 2 more zoa (feeding WC for tyrants powers) and 1x2 venoms, switching the venoms to malanthrope next month when they allow FW finally.

My problem is, that dakkafexes are not mobile. Also tried t-fex (acid+shredder), had some fun moments with the torrent, but also not mobile.
Exocrine barely survives turn 1 on average.

Harpy and Crone are mobile, but after a jink... no firepower. Should I bring only 1 Crone to VS?

Do we have anything in between?

@Hulksmash

I love the idea. Demons are my second favorite army. I am a card carrying member of Nurgle's Army.

With four dakka fexes another walking monstrous creature might be best. Want to say nurgle for t10 potential but a str 9 lash prince that is not to shabby of an idea to help with knights etc. a naked prince isn't a huge threat either and has resilience to grav.

Thanks for the idea Hulk

chaos0xomega wrote:
For those that dont know (i.e. - all of you) I play an almost exclusively close combat nids army. I dont bother with anything with a gun, the only ranged attacks im comfortable with are psychic powers, bioplasma, trygon electric eel shenanigans, and things like the biovore/exocrine, etc. where the weapon is fused into the body itself. It puts me at a serious disadvantage vs flyers, but what can you do?

For anti-flyer take a Hive Crone. It fits with your theme perfectly as both of its ranged weapons aren't guns per say (Tentaclids are effectively independent creatures using the Crone as a roost of sorts while the "Drool Cannon" is integrated like Bioplasma) and it has a close-quarters bent to it (relies on Vector Strikes for most of its damage output - effectively a melee attack done in the movement phase).

Edit:

 SHUPPET wrote:
Harpy I do think is maybe the better of the two... but I don't know, neither of them seem to be focused enough to actually make back their cost in points... and the fact that we CAN take so much better pinning that Harpys makes them hard to justify for me...

For me, the main selling point for the Harpy has generally been its sonic scream ability as an "enabler" for Carnifexes. Most walkers (including knights) and monsters rely on their superior initiative to survive against Carnifexes. You take that away, and they are little more than a heap of scrap waiting to be looted by a passing Grot. For example, if you charge an Imperial Knight with a pair of Carnifexes, odds are they will do maybe a hull point or two from their HoW and then die before they can swing. If you throw a Harpy in the mix, they will do an average of 4.5 hull points before factoring in any explosion results and ignoring any strength boosts (I'm assuming said Fexes are of the common dakka variety - melee fexes or fexes with AGs fair better).

 SHUPPET wrote:

The crones however are even worse, they would fit fine with Living Artillery builds if they did their job a bit better, they were never top notch but now they are alot worse and have no real place in any TAC lists imo unless specifically tailoring against certain builds, they won't ever be close to worthwhile the points investment unless your opponent dedicates all firepower their way instead of at Flyrants (stupidly) and you get to jink it off all game.

This one is really hard for me to argue, because on one hand I fully agree they lost almost all of their anti-ground capabilities which drastically reduced their generalist capability but on the other hand they are still good at their intended role of air superiority (especially against other FMC). They are cheaper than the vast majority of air-to-air fliers in the game (Stormtalon being the only real completion for cheapness) and are arguably more competent at the job since they always have the option of the second turn advantage (go first = fly off table | go second = reserve them like any other interceptor) and their AA functions aren't hindered significantly by using their jink since most of the damage will be through vector strikes with the odd tentaclid thrown in to finish the job.

I don't know. I guess it again depends heavily on what the rest of the list looks like and how many Tyrants you are running. A list with 3-4 Tyrants probably doesn't really need the Hive Crones since that should prove enough AA for most competitive events, but a list with say 2 Tyrants could benefit from the addition of a Crone or two to provide air cover while the Tyrants focus on light armor and infantry.

Yea, Hive Crone is also on my list of things to get eventually, but its a low priority as my meta is pretty casual and rarely sees more than 1 flyer in a list, if even that much