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Actually, the new AT that everyone is talking about running is Scourges for Haywire - so as far as TAC lists go, the unpopularity of Lances helps us vastly. Aside from that, I believe Blasterborn got cheaper, but Wyches got nerfed, although not in a way that helps us however it will make them far less popular meaning no more permatarpits. I'd say all in all we benefit from these changes against a TAC list, but if someone was to build to kill Nids they could probably do it a bit better with Reavers and Blasterborn, but not significantly so.

Talos don't seem to be really that much better, especially since they can't benefit from a WWP...

I am sure this has been asked but where can I find/locate the current rules for the Tyranid Forgeworld rule? Are they in IA2?

Imperial Armour IV: The Anphelion Project

SHUPPET, I think the Dark Eldar vets in the Tactica are discussing whether Lance or Haywire are more effective in the current format - I myself lean towards Haywire.

The Talos is looking to be a great heavy support choice, T7 with 3+ and FNP on turn 1 is going to be very durable, completely immune to Gribblies and needed 5's to Wound from everything else, except Carnifexes, Dimachaeron and Warp Lance. Couple that with 5 S7 AP2 attacks on the charge with a Twin-Linked splinter cannon (so 42 inch range) and in can put the hurt on monstrous creatures quite quickly (especially with WS5 and I4). Fearless too, all for 120 points - it's only real draw back is 3 Wounds but still it's going to take a lot to take it down.

Apparently there is a formation that lets IC join Talos, can't remember it but they get access to WWP in the Covens - there is also the 5 Talos formation that gives them all Scout, they could be in your deployment very quickly..

I'd say against DE for Nids to win they need to have FMC's - AV10 should mean that Flyrants and Crones will gain air superiority and rapidly dissect the grounded Dark Eldar

 Sinful Hero wrote:
Imperial Armour IV: The Anphelion Project

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/New_Stuff/IMPERIAL_ARMOUR_VOLUME_FOUR_THE_ANPHELION_PROJECT_SECOND_EDITION.html

ForgeWorld just released an updated book. Between this and the latest ARB, and ERB you should have the latest FW nid rules.

 jy2 wrote:

 Wilson wrote:
Has anyone tried dimachaeron spam with malanthrope support? If so how did it fair?

I'm talking 3 dimas and 2 malanthrope foot slogging across the board.

800 pts of sheer stupid!

If you've got the models, then go for it. It won't be a competitive army, but it sure can be fun as heck.



----------------------------------------------------------------------------------



On a different note, does anyone have any experience against the new Dark Eldar? I don't have the codex yet and have only heard some stuff about them. How do you think we will fare against the new DE? What will probably be their new competitive build (or competitive units)? Will we continue to have trouble against them, or have they become slightly easier for us to deal with?

Appreciate in advance the input. Let's go beat some dark space elves!

I think I'll remain forever hopeful that one day, the dima will be changed to a jump MC and be given fearless. And when that day comes, I will run this list so hard! All over the shop.

 Frozocrone wrote:
SHUPPET, I think the Dark Eldar vets in the Tactica are discussing whether Lance or Haywire are more effective in the current format - I myself lean towards Haywire.

The Talos is looking to be a great heavy support choice, T7 with 3+ and FNP on turn 1 is going to be very durable, completely immune to Gribblies and needed 5's to Wound from everything else, except Carnifexes, Dimachaeron and Warp Lance. Couple that with 5 S7 AP2 attacks on the charge with a Twin-Linked splinter cannon (so 42 inch range) and in can put the hurt on monstrous creatures quite quickly (especially with WS5 and I4). Fearless too, all for 120 points - it's only real draw back is 3 Wounds but still it's going to take a lot to take it down.

Apparently there is a formation that lets IC join Talos, can't remember it but they get access to WWP in the Covens - there is also the 5 Talos formation that gives them all Scout, they could be in your deployment very quickly..

I'd say against DE for Nids to win they need to have FMC's - AV10 should mean that Flyrants and Crones will gain air superiority and rapidly dissect the grounded Dark Eldar

What comp nid list doesn't have at least 2 Flyrants anyway? lol

I don't get this big fuss about Talos/ Cronos. They are regular 3 wounded MC's with 3+ AS and are T7. enough shots from a brainleech devourer (or two) could drop one fairly easily.

 Wilson wrote:
What comp nid list doesn't have at least 2 Flyrants anyway? lol

I don't get this big fuss about Talos/ Cronos. They are regular 3 wounded MC's with 3+ AS and are T7. enough shots from a brainleech devourer (or two) could drop one fairly easily.

The worst kind of list!

To be fair you can take them in units of three which means you can shift them around for wound allocation.

And if I use a Flyrant for example purposes regarding wounds on average:

12 shots at BS4 with TL = 9.33 hits
9.33 hits requiring 5's to wound = 3.11 wounds
3.1 Armour Save at 3+ = 1.03 Wounds
THEN it gets to make a FNP save (gets it standard) so it has a 1/3 chance of negating the wound, or if you're facing a Cronos engine with a Spirit Probe, 1/2 chance on a FNP(4+).

So on average you're going to be doing 0.66 wounds (or 0.50) a turn on average with a Flyrant...I'd say that's pretty durable

In CC the Talos is going to outshine TMC's, I think WS5, S7 and 5 attacks on the charg (in addition to 6 TL poisoned shots) and I4 is going to hurt TMC's more than TMC's can hurt it. Cronos has WS3 S5 so maybe not so much him - but I would definitely have an eye open on where that Talos is going

 Frozocrone wrote:

 Wilson wrote:
What comp nid list doesn't have at least 2 Flyrants anyway? lol

I don't get this big fuss about Talos/ Cronos. They are regular 3 wounded MC's with 3+ AS and are T7. enough shots from a brainleech devourer (or two) could drop one fairly easily.

The worst kind of list!

To be fair you can take them in units of three which means you can shift them around for wound allocation.

And if I use a Flyrant for example purposes regarding wounds on average:

12 shots at BS4 with TL = 9.33 hits
9.33 hits requiring 5's to wound = 3.11 wounds
3.1 Armour Save at 3+ = 1.03 Wounds
THEN it gets to make a FNP save (gets it standard) so it has a 1/3 chance of negating the wound, or if you're facing a Cronos engine with a Spirit Probe, 1/2 chance on a FNP(4+).

So on average you're going to be doing 0.66 wounds (or 0.50) a turn on average with a Flyrant...I'd say that's pretty durable

In CC the Talos is going to outshine TMC's, I think WS5, S7 and 5 attacks on the charg (in addition to 6 TL poisoned shots) and I4 is going to hurt TMC's more than TMC's can hurt it. Cronos has WS3 S5 so maybe not so much him - but I would definitely have an eye open on where that Talos is going

oh... well, when you say it like that! thats pretty damn nasty like!

 Wilson wrote:
oh... well, when you say it like that! thats pretty damn nasty like!

I think I might start running Hormagaunts with Toxin Sacs again if they become extremely common - but tarpitting them and dealing with the rest of the army could also work

However aside from the FnP this is something they could pretty much always do... they might be worthwhile against us, as we are an army that is forced to get close, however they always have been, and they will still be just as bad vs almost every other match up. Seems like we will only see them when opponent is specifically building against us, and if you know someone is doing that you can just take a bunch of TS Gargs or The Miasma Cannon or something and have no worries dealing with them in return.

I played alongside the new dark eldar tonight vs Orks. The Scourges with Haywire were pretty underwhelming. Wyches suck. Incubi went up against a giant "Council of the Waaaaagh!" deathstar, and did better than expected. They lost, but threw some damage right back.

The single biggest contribution the Dark Eldar made to the game was when a Raider exploded and killed 6 orks, who then lost another 4 to Mob Rule.

We were facing the gunliniest orks I have ever seen. 2 x 15 Lootas, 5 Traktor Kannons, 5 Smasha Gunz, 2 X Deff Dred with 2 Rokkits, 2 X 20 Slugga boyz, and Council of the Waaaagh in an outflanking battle wagon.

I ran 40 Hormagants, and between them and my 4 infiltrating Dakkafexes I took care of business. My 2 Lictors even made their points when they assaulted, and the swept the 5 Traktor Kannons. We would have tabled him by turn 3 because his Council failed their reserve roll. We fluffed the roll, and spotted him a Morkanaunt, and he ended up conceding after turn 3 after the incubi did some damage to his Council.

I feel bad for Orks. All I hear are ork players complaining about how under-powered their codex is. Could they be even worse off than Tyranids? Honestly, I can't tell for sure as I have not faced the new orks yet (at least not with my Tyranids).

Perhaps the next time I drop by Frontline Gaming, I'll challenge Frankie's Dark Eldar with my bugs. It'll be interesting to see the type of shenanigans that he can come up with (as Frankie is known to bring some hardcore competitive spam lists).

tag8833 wrote:

 Traceoftoxin wrote:
Overall a venomspam army barely changed, so that match up is still rough. I think a shift to coven armies will benefit us greatly.

I agree generally with this, but venom spam did change just subtlely. Ravagers got pricier, and venom spam relies on Ravagers to pop tanks.

Since you can now field Venoms as Fast Attack without crew, I'd say they got a fair bit stronger. Anything on the ground with a T value just melts.

 jy2 wrote:
I feel bad for Orks. All I hear are ork players complaining about how under-powered their codex is. Could they be even worse off than Tyranids? Honestly, I can't tell for sure as I have not faced the new orks yet (at least not with my Tyranids).

Perhaps the next time I drop by Frontline Gaming, I'll challenge Frankie's Dark Eldar with my bugs. It'll be interesting to see the type of shenanigans that he can come up with (as Frankie is known to bring some hardcore competitive spam lists).

Orks are an extremely balanced match up for us. As far as power level goes, I'd say they are weaker other match ups (Barely any Flyrant, Carnifexes, Thropes, Living Artillery, Skyblight, etc level type of things for Orkz). But as far as a well written codex, they got better internal balance than we do. Not by a massive margin, but significantly enough. It's a tough trade off. I wouldn't say they are worse off than us, but damn GW is putting out some trashtier dexes as of late, and it seems to be all the Xenos copping it. Look at AstraMili / SpaceMarines / ImpKnights / Space Wolves / GreyKnights's power level if you want a comparison of the recent dexes, compared to Nids, Orks, & DE. It's a bit heavy to be too much of a coincidence

 jy2 wrote:
I feel bad for Orks. All I hear are ork players complaining about how under-powered their codex is. Could they be even worse off than Tyranids? Honestly, I can't tell for sure as I have not faced the new orks yet (at least not with my Tyranids).

Orks are my 2nd army, though most of my Orks are not ready for the table top. The main Ork codex is no better than the main tyranid codex, but their suppliment is better than our dataslates by far. Instead of having 2 formations that are kinda good, they have 2 that are outstanding, and another 5-6 that are good, but nobody is sure how good, because nobody has enough experience fielding them. The new mob rule is punishing, and designed to make players feel bad about playing Orks, and it mainly works as about 1/2 of the local Ork players have quit.

I took lictors and Genestealers, so the Orks could have won the game if they hadn't thrown away so many points on elite units and upgrades.

I have not looked at the new Ork book yet. It seems a trend is to punish a player base that has an army wide rule that hinges on being successful.

Synapse and Mob check come to mind. I can only imagine how bad demonic instability will be when demons get a new book. It will probably effect them in shooting as well and not just assault.

I have a 1500 point game tomorrow my first with bugs in 3 editions... It is against a Chaos opponent with a more fluffy list than uber competitive.

Guys Im looking to bring this TAC list to an 1850 tourney at the end of this month.
Any advice is much appreciated

2 x Flyrant with devs and grubs
2 x Lictors in a brood
2 x single Zoans
15 x Horms with toxin
15 x Horms with toxin
12 x Stealers
14 x Gargs with toxin
14 x Gargs with toxin
5 x Shrikes with devs and rending
2 x Mawlocs
3 x Biovores

The basic idea is to present a lot of different types of threats and move quickly to get board control/tie up units/pressure objectives.

Why the Lictors and Zoans?

 Ratius wrote:
Guys Im looking to bring this TAC list to an 1850 tourney at the end of this month.
Any advice is much appreciated

2 x Flyrant with devs and grubs
2 x Lictors in a brood
2 x single Zoans
15 x Horms with toxin
15 x Horms with toxin
12 x Stealers
14 x Gargs with toxin
14 x Gargs with toxin
5 x Shrikes with devs and rending
2 x Mawlocs
3 x Biovores

The basic idea is to present a lot of different types of threats and move quickly to get board control/tie up units/pressure objectives.

I think you'll struggle with this list as it is. The main flaws in nids where semi fixed by the formations and then more so by forge world.
If the tournament allows either or, look to get a Malanthrope in their at least to walk up the board with the rest of your slower gaunts OR have a look at some of the formations.

Why the Lictors and Zoans?

Lictors to try and pressure some weaker backfield units opponents might have (artillary, long fangs etc).
Zoans for a bit more synapse and warpcharge.
Im definitely not set on either tbh if you have alternatives?

I think you'll struggle with this list as it is.

Could you expand a bit ?Im not overly familiar with the dirtier Nid builds. I dont have enough models to run full formations Im afraid.

 Ratius wrote:

Why the Lictors and Zoans?

Lictors to try and pressure some weaker backfield units opponents might have (artillary, long fangs etc).
Zoans for a bit more synapse and warpcharge.
Im definitely not set on either tbh if you have alternatives?

I think you'll struggle with this list as it is.

Could you expand a bit ?Im not overly familiar with the dirtier Nid builds. I dont have enough models to run full formations Im afraid.

Sure!

The best way, for me personally to run Nids is going all out on multi wounded high toughness MC's, cover saves and applying pressure fast.

applying pressure fast you have in the form of two flyrants with devourers, gargoyles and shrikes.

Mawlocs contribute towards the MC count but thats where it ends.

Living artillery node would be a good fit because it introduces another MC into your list while keeping the biovores - however you'd have to cut out 270 pts from your list and I don't want to tell you to do that.

Cover saves - Venomthrope or Malanthrope. preferably the latter because of synapse, T5, regen and 4 wounds with a 3+ but if you're restricted on models then go for the venom. it will help you avoid giving up first blood.

You might split the Zoans up, or try to fit in some warriors. You look a little weak on synapse. You might keep a Zoan in the backfield to babysit your Biovores. Personally I prefer Hive Guard over lictors, they're a bit more of an all-rounder for me. Popping transports, potshots at fliers, and they can put a few wounds too, all while skulking behind a wall out of sight.

Bunch of pics of my tournament board over here.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/618166.page#7262716



Happy to be done with that headache.

 Iechine wrote:
Bunch of pics of my tournament board over here.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/618166.page#7262716

Spoiler:

Happy to be done with that headache.

Are you Gargoyles on custom bases?

Nope, just cork on the board and magnetized on the bottom.

Finally got to play my 'nidzilla list today, in a 2v1 against an IG player and a Daemon-factory player.

As noted before, I decided to downgrade my dakka-Flyrant to a walking MC and double up on them, and man, I really felt how much of a crutch the Flyrant is for us.

With no guns packing a range longer than 24'', the only units that ever managed to really reach out and touch my opponents were the Mawlocs and the Harpy. I don't normally have the Harpy in my list (I've deliberately avoided taking any flyers in this list because I've been on a win-streak lately and wanted to make a list that was more fun for my opponents to deal with) but it was bumped up from a 1500 point list to an 1850 point one to compensate for my opponents' both having a 1000-point list, so I took the Harpy and a unit of Lictors to try and give a little accuracy to the Mawlocs.

Man... the Lictors were wiped by a veteran squad and two plasma sentinels turn 1. One of the Mawlocs scattered onto a unit of Horrors and killed ten of them, then got merc'd by the same Veteran squad (3xplasma guns) the very next turn, while the other Mawloc scattered away from any enemy units and got killed by two summoned bloodthirsters a turn later. The Harpy killed about half a unit of Horrors but got knocked down to 1 wound by a single round of fire from a Vindicare assassin on quad-gun (lol). My three Dakka-fex's put in the most work, killing both sentinels and a daemonette unit, and survived till the end of the game, while both of my Tyrants were killed, one after the other, by Punisher-Pask.

I conceded at the bottom of turn 3, as by that point both my mawlocs and Hive Tyrants were dead, both of my hormagaunt units had been wiped by Pask's Eradicator/standard-Russ buddies even with Venomthrope support, my Harpy was down to one wound and my three fex's were in combat with a Bloodthirster and Daemonette squad. And my Daemon opponent had five (!) summoned Bloodthirsters on the field.

Pretty brutal. If I had been using my Living Artillery list, the Biovores would have taken it to their veterans, horrors and Vindicare, while my Flyrants very feasibly could have wiped Pask and his entire squad in just a round or two of shooting. As it stood, with 99% of my army having a 6'' move and 24'' guns, I just couldn't bring enough of it to bare fast enough to cripple my opponents' armies.

And on that note, without falling back on a Flyrant, how do you reliably deal with an AV14-wall? Mawlocs aren't reliable enough, imo.

 BlaxicanX wrote:

And on that note, without falling back on a Flyrant, how do you reliably deal with an AV14-wall? Mawlocs aren't reliable enough, imo.

Use Hive Commander to outflank a Tervigon with eGrubs

Do the same with a Carnifex. HVC and Crushing Claws preferred loadout. Taking a bigger brood helps but you really only need the one set of crushing claws.

Brood of Zoans (for lances), either marching up or you could try outflanking. I have a feeling they will die a very horrible horrible death that way though. (No ablative wounds, 3 save, low toughness)

Hive Guard are a possibility if you have enough and are in a superior position (i.e. outside of LOS with impalers or up close and in cover with haywires)

Hive Crone with S8 vector and Haywire rockets. Not a good option but it's there...

huge broods of hormas/gargoyles with AG. If enough of them make it across the field (read 50-60) most vehicles have AV10-11 on the rear (except Land Raiders...) and you can glance them to death through sheer weight of attacks. genestealers/shrikes/raveners with rending claws can feasibly do the same thing but are much more expensive per attack/wound. also not a good option

I think that's all we got...

I don't know if any of you have heard but there are two new large nid kits coming out in the next 6-7 weeks.

Rules in the box too!

Interesting! Link to any info?

 Wilson wrote:
I don't know if any of you have heard but there are two new large nid kits coming out in the next 6-7 weeks.

Rules in the box too!

Sadly, I hope not... I can't think of what we really need at this point, unless it is a plastic stone crusher carnifex and a Magma Corer. Also, half of what information I can find on these 2 new kits is either on Faeit or over a year old...So do we want to start passing the salt shaker now or later?