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you know i'm basically agreeing with you, right?

 BlaxicanX wrote:

 jy2 wrote:
Yeah, they would, which is why you would screen him out with the unit of gargoyles first....after you've dakka'd them with your flyrants first, of course.

Oh, absolutely. Though, in that situation it's not really the Dima doing any of the work, eh?

Gargoyles are to hold/pin down a unit for the dima to then come in and finish off. In this case, if he doesn't die by shooting, he will usually make it into close combat.

Flyrants will target whoever needs dying first, whether that be the seekers or Fateweaver or Belakor or another greater daemon/daemon prince with the Grimoire.

Regardless, when playing against Daemons, the dima will 95% of the time get into combat unless the rest of the Tyranid army is so efficient in killing the enemy that the battle is already over before he can do s (95% chance that this won't be happening ).

 gigasnail wrote:
you know i'm basically agreeing with you, right?

Ahh no the comment about being able to make the same argument for a lot of things made me think you were disagreeing with the statement about Dima being highly match dependant sorry. Definitely think it's the most match up dependant unit in the dex, against some armies it's highly inefficient points to durability ratio for an MC that will never threaten anything, in other match ups it's hands down the BEST unit in the dex. Noting else seems as hot n cold to me out of all our options. Maybe Shrikes, who can really get out of hand and effectively be 12" speed Terminators with similar damage output and no AP2 counter, IF your opponent skimped on the S8+ weaponry and their S4 is relevant (Some competitive Eldar builds tbh!). But for he most part, not much else. Especially against CC armies, while it makes all our units slightly better, none as much as the Dima. Sure, stealers Haruspex old one eye Swarmlord Pyrovore Tyranid Prime and Trygo be all appreciate being able to ensure their charge, but all of them remain overpriced and crappy even if they do, unlike the Dima. Interesting model it is.

no i'm right there with you, shared sentiment.

 Frozocrone wrote:

 Wilson wrote:

You want Bio Plasma?

Nidzilla!!!!

875 points

WS7 BS3 S10 T7 W8 I5 A5 LD10 SV2+

Unit: 1 Nidzilla

Type: Gargantuan Monstrous Creature

Special Rules: Fearless, Shadow in The Warp, Instinctive Behaviour ( Hunt), ML2 Psyker, Rampage.

Electroshock Bio-Plasma Scream:

Torrent 6" SD*, AP2 Torrent, Bio-Plasma Lance*

*Bio-Plasma Lance
Nidzilla may narrow it's scream into a death ray-like beam to Focus on a single enemy target.

Bio Plasma Lance
Range 24, SD*, AP1, Beam*

*St D - If the target is a Vehicle or a Building, On a roll of a 4,5 and 6 The target suffers a Devastating hit, otherwise suffers a normal result on the Destroyer Weapon Attack Table.
*Beam - Pick an enemy target within 24" and trace a 1mm line from that point up to the maximum range. each model under that

Gargantuous Claws.

SD, AP1, Sunder

Sunder - May re-roll on the Destroyer Weapon Attack Table against Buildings and Vehicles.

This is insanely broken and has no place in standard 40k games.

...yet makes me weak at the knees

In my defence, I had drunk a fair amount of wine before writing those rules. Perhaps Strength D on the bio plasma is a little too much... But if the C'tan can have it why can't we :[[[[[[[[

Head on over and start drooling. It appears that instead of fixing lictors, GW has decided to release a better lictor. And instead of buffing Zoanthropes, they decided to give us a better Zoanthrope....and an actual reason for doing a Tyranid psychic dominance list. Daemon allies are looking better than ever, huh Hulksmash.

That being said, I'm in. Hoping they clock in in the 140-170 point range

http://natfka.blogspot.com/2014/10/next-week-pre-orders-tyranid-toxicrene.html?m=1

luke1705 wrote:
Head on over and start drooling. It appears that instead of fixing lictors, GW has decided to release a better lictor. And instead of buffing Zoanthropes, they decided to give us a better Zoanthrope....and an actual reason for doing a Tyranid psychic dominance list. Daemon allies are looking better than ever, huh Hulksmash.

That being said, I'm in. Hoping they clock in in the 140-170 point range

http://natfka.blogspot.com/2014/10/next-week-pre-orders-tyranid-toxicrene.html?m=1

Wow, that looks like usable models. If they get out in time for x-mass, I just might get one... It looks like they want to send Nids into a Toxic/Psyho direction, can't say I am opposed. (Take a look at my "Psycho" lists )

pinecone77 wrote:

luke1705 wrote:
Head on over and start drooling. It appears that instead of fixing lictors, GW has decided to release a better lictor. And instead of buffing Zoanthropes, they decided to give us a better Zoanthrope....and an actual reason for doing a Tyranid psychic dominance list. Daemon allies are looking better than ever, huh Hulksmash.

That being said, I'm in. Hoping they clock in in the 140-170 point range

http://natfka.blogspot.com/2014/10/next-week-pre-orders-tyranid-toxicrene.html?m=1

Wow, that looks like usable models. If they get out in time for x-mass, I just might get one... It looks like they want to send Nids into a Toxic/Psyho direction, can't say I am opposed. (Take a look at my "Psycho" lists )

Part of that rumor is pre-order next week... I'd be pleasantly surprised if so. I wonder if the rules will be in box or WD only? I hope WD so I don't have to buy one of these now... I'd much rather wait until Christmas when I have a little more cash. Also, I'm super excited to see what Tyranid dice look like. Honestly, I'll probably buy it. I also feel like the second one (Maleceptor) is missing something. For a 4+ save MC, I think it needs a little "more" extra besides an extra psychic power. A good one to be fair, but nothing mind blowing.

An earlier rumor from the same source said that the rules would be in the box itself, which is a nice direction. As far as the save, it all comes down to the points. If the dude is T5 and 4W for less than 100 points, who cares? Plus he'll likely be taking 3+ cover most of the time anyhow

luke1705 wrote:
Head on over and start drooling. It appears that instead of fixing lictors, GW has decided to release a better lictor. And instead of buffing Zoanthropes, they decided to give us a better Zoanthrope....and an actual reason for doing a Tyranid psychic dominance list. Daemon allies are looking better than ever, huh Hulksmash.

That being said, I'm in. Hoping they clock in in the 140-170 point range

http://natfka.blogspot.com/2014/10/next-week-pre-orders-tyranid-toxicrene.html?m=1

Interesting.

The rules themselves don't really "wow" me, but I wouldn't mind giving them a try.

Maleceptor
A 4 legged beast with two large scything talons
A psyker level 2, synapse monstrous creature that has an invul save of 5+. It has shadows of the warp and a 4+ save.

It has the psychic power psychic overload, which is a 24" focused witchfire. target must take a leadership test on 3d6 and vehicles count as leadership 10, failure causes d3 wounds no armor or cover saves allowed, and a causes a single glancing hit to vehicles, no cover save allowed. The maleceptor can do psychic overload three times a round, but cannot target the same model twice.

It can choose its remaining powers from the powers of the hive mind.

A four legged beast... beast...


beast.......


is that poor wording or is it a beast....

If its a beast with a god awful stat line I will cry and write an angry letter.

as always hopeful for non-garbage, but with GW's track record, we'll see. beast-type MC is ace.

 gigasnail wrote:
as always hopeful for non-garbage, but with GW's track record, we'll see. beast-type MC is ace.

I feel like the Toxicrene is the better candidate for speed. I would actually use that! But ultimately there's not much to say until pre-orders hit on Saturday, and hopefully there's some rules leaks.

I'll get them if they look cool. That's all that really matters at thispoint.

Well. Looks like GW has ALREADY activated MAXIMUM GOUGING on the new stuff. I won't be getting them unless they are blatantly, ridiculously overpowered.

Actually they're cheaper (allegedly) than the Harpy/Hive Crone kit, so it's not as bad as it could be. Wouldn't mind if it was cheaper, but if that super lictor can move 12" who cares?


But yeah you definitely don't want to have a psker who can gun stuff down stuck in combat, so 12" speed would almost be a mockery if he got it and the other guy didn't

luke1705 wrote:
Actually they're cheaper (allegedly) than the Harpy/Hive Crone kit, so it's not as bad as it could be. Wouldn't mind if it was cheaper, but if that super lictor can move 12" who cares?


But yeah you definitely don't want to have a psker who can gun stuff down stuck in combat, so 12" speed would almost be a mockery if he got it and the other guy didn't

Just as an FYI
both the 12 inch move and pts are Forum wish listing ,not rumours.

luke1705 wrote:
Actually they're cheaper (allegedly) than the Harpy/Hive Crone kit, so it's not as bad as it could be. Wouldn't mind if it was cheaper, but if that super lictor can move 12" who cares?


But yeah you definitely don't want to have a psker who can gun stuff down stuck in combat, so 12" speed would almost be a mockery if he got it and the other guy didn't

If the Tyranid Fast Attack MC only moves 6", I sincerely doubt you're going to have any other Tyranid MC move more than 6" unless they're flyers.

 jy2 wrote:

luke1705 wrote:
Actually they're cheaper (allegedly) than the Harpy/Hive Crone kit, so it's not as bad as it could be. Wouldn't mind if it was cheaper, but if that super lictor can move 12" who cares?


But yeah you definitely don't want to have a psker who can gun stuff down stuck in combat, so 12" speed would almost be a mockery if he got it and the other guy didn't

If the Tyranid Fast Attack MC only moves 6", I sincerely doubt you're going to have any other Tyranid MC move more than 6" unless they're flyers.

The feeling that the Dimachaeron was the chosen one and that it has failed is ever growing.

Dear Forge World,


.....

Echoing the Dimachaeron failure

Although come to think of it it's not as slow as I originally think it was, it can re-roll run distance after all.

Obviously, 12 in movement phase is better than 6 in movement +re-rollable run.

 jy2 wrote:

luke1705 wrote:
Actually they're cheaper (allegedly) than the Harpy/Hive Crone kit, so it's not as bad as it could be. Wouldn't mind if it was cheaper, but if that super lictor can move 12" who cares?


But yeah you definitely don't want to have a psker who can gun stuff down stuck in combat, so 12" speed would almost be a mockery if he got it and the other guy didn't

If the Tyranid Fast Attack MC only moves 6", I sincerely doubt you're going to have any other Tyranid MC move more than 6" unless they're flyers.

I completely agree that it's incredibly unlikely, especially from a heavy support option (if that is the case). That being said, who knows? Maybe GW has learned from their mistakes. Unlikely, but possible. If it has infiltrate, I'm not going to be too sad. Or if it's simply set at an appropriate cost, that'd be cool too. If we're talking 140 point territory like the mawloc, I don't think anyone will mind too much

Maleceptor looks very playable, depending on points and if its BS4 like the other Psykers,

 Frozocrone wrote:
Echoing the Dimachaeron failure

Exactly what I thought of for the Toxicrene. Useless unless it costs 80 points max or has 12" movespeed.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

luke1705 wrote:

 jy2 wrote:

luke1705 wrote:
Actually they're cheaper (allegedly) than the Harpy/Hive Crone kit, so it's not as bad as it could be. Wouldn't mind if it was cheaper, but if that super lictor can move 12" who cares?


But yeah you definitely don't want to have a psker who can gun stuff down stuck in combat, so 12" speed would almost be a mockery if he got it and the other guy didn't

If the Tyranid Fast Attack MC only moves 6", I sincerely doubt you're going to have any other Tyranid MC move more than 6" unless they're flyers.

I completely agree that it's incredibly unlikely, especially from a heavy support option (if that is the case). That being said, who knows? Maybe GW has learned from their mistakes. Unlikely, but possible. If it has infiltrate, I'm not going to be too sad. Or if it's simply set at an appropriate cost, that'd be cool too. If we're talking 140 point territory like the mawloc, I don't think anyone will mind too much

140 pts? Base Carnifex is 120 points, and only useful for Devourers. Even at 100 points, the unreliability of a walking MC just makes Carnifex not worth the points, and a Carnifex pays more per wound than a Mawloc. This Toxicrene looks like it will hit less hard than a Carnifex, covering anti-infantry a much less important role for us, and even if it gets Lictoresque weapon skill, at 100 points will still just be Dima tier.

barnowl wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:
Actually, the #1 reason that neither of you mentioned, is that you practically fold to any list with a couple of transports and a walker. AT is the weakest aspect of the Tyranid codex. It's almost critical you take what you can get, be it eGrubs, Carnifexes, even Harpies for some, Termagants are hard to justify in a sensible list, and even less so when you are forced to make them less points effecient by giving them AG just so they can hopefully glance AV10 rear armour to death in 2 turns, assuming enough make it to combat with something that moves at double it's speed, without taking too much losses.

Horde armies seem really hard to make playable.

I do play horde nids in tournies, as my only fully painted army dates back to 3rd, and yeah high mech lists are hard. I find an exocrine, Screamer-killer and basic dakkafex have to be there to make dents in the armor. 6th made them work because troops had to disembark to claim objectives. 7th with OS Landraiders, Rhinos, and pods is making the game much harder on the gribby horde again.

This is part of what has my nid army on the shelf :-/ (the other part being, I'm just not sure about the 7th ed ruleset). But not using the 150 models I just painted earlier this year is a little discouraging as far as putting more work into the army...

I'd take a lictor that can't get instant-deathed by strength 10, has shrouded rather than stealth, and clocks in at 20 points per T6 wound in a heartbeat. It's like deathleaper, except with a better shooting attack and better CC ability. Maybe I just like lictors though. That being said, like all of our walking MC, a secondary deployment option would make it much nicer. Here's to hoping for an actual leaked picture sooner rather than later!

As the guy who runs a 15 lictor list, infiltrate/DS are ridiculously important, this Toxicrene cant get by with neither

also, 20 pts per T6 wound would be 100 pts not 140, and those T6 wounds come with very little compared to Mawlocs 23 pts for each T6 wound that come with an AP2 blast (still a bigger role than toxicrenes blast) and the Deepstrike mobility necessary.

Definitely interested to see the full rules on both of these. First glance gets me excited for some synergy with current lists. All of this is point dependent though. If they are even mid range expensive like anything over 150 they will not be competitive unless some key rules are being left out in this leak. If they run cheap they will be awesome and will absolutely make it into competitive lists.

I gotta say btw I see a lot of hate on the Dima.. it is in fact sad it is not fearless and on a far more important level it lacks speed BUT I have been running one in all of my lists since it came out and have yet to regret that. When you play a violent tau gunline yes it has a lot less of a place but as a body guard for my barbed heirodule and in general a gigantic wraith knight deterrent it has done absolute work! Hell even against JY2's Necrons where you'd think it is pointless I have a lot to thank for his skills

It's the speed and not the fearless that really cripples it iNcontrol. You can play around the lack of fearless, can't play around the lack of being able to have any choice in target. As a bodyguard (I assume you mean to attract fire) it trades wounds far poorer than every other decent MC in the dex.

I'm looking forward to seeing the rules, that Toxicrene definitely needs decent mobility or its basically a Trygon without DS... The Maleceptor looks really cool. Either way, more options is never worse than less options, lets hope the rumours are on point

Considering the latest leaks, I doubt I'll bother with either if I'm honest.

 Wilson wrote:
Considering the latest leaks, I doubt I'll bother with either if I'm honest.

Agree.

200+ points for the 4+ save Malaceptor? Pass.
Toxicrene is 150 so seems better, but for the same price you get a Dakkafex.

Better rules please GW

Can I get a link to this?

Toxicrene at 150 , useless. 200 points for that Maleceptor, useless. Half them both and one of them might see play. Not sure of the statline on the maleceptor yet tho, but over 200 points is Flyrant territory, and would need to be a damn good unit, that thing has very little aggression for that price



Just more of the typical Tyranid treatment

I urge people above all not to support this terrible crap by going out and buying one for your collection, it just greenlights this kinda weak ass gak from GW's perspective