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2014/10/27 12:50:05
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Knight Tactica p.177)
Stealth Team (147)
•Marker Drone
•Shas'vre
•Markerlight
•Velocity Tracker
Fast Attack:
Piranha (50)
•PDTR
Piranha (50
•PDTR
Piranha (40)
He went first. On turn 1, Hormagaunts charged FW team, Flyrant charged Riptide, and Carnifex tried to charge a Piranha but was stopped by a wall. I just quit turn 2, because there was no point in even playing. Good news, I found a new ultracompetitive list for nids. (The one he used)
Peregrine - If you like the army buy it, and don't worry about what one random person on the internet thinks.
2014/10/27 14:03:09
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Knight Tactica p.177)
Stealth Team (147)
•Marker Drone
•Shas'vre
•Markerlight
•Velocity Tracker
Fast Attack:
Piranha (50)
•PDTR
Piranha (50
•PDTR
Piranha (40)
He went first. On turn 1, Hormagaunts charged FW team, Flyrant charged Riptide, and Carnifex tried to charge a Piranha but was stopped by a wall. I just quit turn 2, because there was no point in even playing. Good news, I found a new ultracompetitive list for nids. (The one he used)
How were both armies deployed?
YMDC = nightmare
2014/10/27 14:26:05
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Knight Tactica p.177)
Stealth Team (147)
•Marker Drone
•Shas'vre
•Markerlight
•Velocity Tracker
Fast Attack:
Piranha (50)
•PDTR
Piranha (50
•PDTR
Piranha (40)
He went first. On turn 1, Hormagaunts charged FW team, Flyrant charged Riptide, and Carnifex tried to charge a Piranha but was stopped by a wall. I just quit turn 2, because there was no point in even playing. Good news, I found a new ultracompetitive list for nids. (The one he used)
How were both armies deployed?
When choosing board edges, I rolled a one. Long edges.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/10/27 14:27:12
Peregrine - If you like the army buy it, and don't worry about what one random person on the internet thinks.
2014/10/27 14:36:36
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Knight Tactica p.177)
That's far too close. Hormagaunts only need to move up 6, then get a re-rollable charge. Flyrant can move 12, then charge. Carnifexes move up 6 then charge.
That deployment, on that table, with CC Nids going first was designed to slaughter Tau.
YMDC = nightmare
2014/10/27 14:57:25
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Knight Tactica p.177)
He went first. On turn 1, Hormagaunts charged FW team, Flyrant charged Riptide, and Carnifex tried to charge a Piranha but was stopped by a wall. I just quit turn 2, because there was no point in even playing. Good news, I found a new ultracompetitive list for nids. (The one he used)
So you guys did role-reversal? You played his Tau and he your Tyranids?
A 1st turn charge should be almost impossible for Tyranids on a standard table. That is because you guys start off 24" away from each other. But playing on your modified 3'x5' table, you guys need to adjust for that. If you guys play 12" for each deployment zone, then it is only 12" from the other army. Then the assault would be possible (though not quite so fair). However, to simulate the actual game, you guys should have played with a 6" deployment zones so that you guys will still be 24" away from each other.
BTW, that Tyranid list is terrible. NEVER run close-combat flyrants. Proxy if you have to but run them with 2 brainleech devourers each. You'll find that it makes a world of difference between the 2 builds. Also, don't bother with Regeneration on anything with less than 6W (and then I still wouldn't bother with it). Instead, give your flyrants electroshock grubs instead. Finally, your list is Unbound with 3 HQ's and 1 Troop. It is better to run Bound lists and you can do that easily by swapping out the 20 hormagants for 30 termagants. That would then change your tervigon from HQ to a troop choice, thus satisfying the requirement for a Bound detachment. But that is easily understandable if you don't have the models for the army and do not want to proxy.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
iNcontroL wrote: Definitely interested to see the full rules on both of these. First glance gets me excited for some synergy with current lists. All of this is point dependent though. If they are even mid range expensive like anything over 150 they will not be competitive unless some key rules are being left out in this leak. If they run cheap they will be awesome and will absolutely make it into competitive lists.
I gotta say btw I see a lot of hate on the Dima.. it is in fact sad it is not fearless and on a far more important level it lacks speed BUT I have been running one in all of my lists since it came out and have yet to regret that. When you play a violent tau gunline yes it has a lot less of a place but as a body guard for my barbed heirodule and in general a gigantic wraith knight deterrent it has done absolute work! Hell even against JY2's Necrons where you'd think it is pointless I have a lot to thank for his skills
Welcome to the Tyranid Tactica thread, Geoff.
I still have nightmares about your Barbie stepping on my 2 bargelords and killing both of them....and neither getting back up even on 4+'s.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/10/27 15:03:03
Jy2 is right, CC Flyrants are just wasted potential for 2 amazingly mobile dakka guns and they already come stock standard with S6 Ap2 brilliant WS and a decent number of attacks, they needn't throw away their best role for more focus on CC. Regen however I think it was Tag and someone else that did the numbers and made a pretty good case for Flyrant being the very best Regeneration recipient, and I think TFex is a close second... But that being said absolutely nobody thinks it's a good idea in either in games above 1000 pts in size. But jy2s suggestions are definitely a good step in the right direction if that's your Nids list
Automatically Appended Next Post: I didn't see the supposed points costs the original time. Although I remain skeptical ( if he knows how many points they cost why is an ambiguous number) but if those prices are anything close to true, both are ridiculously bad. Like, contending with Trygon Prime level of bad. Trying halving those points and trying again, even then I personally wouldn't touch either as they are gimmicky and unreliable as gak. At a spam able price maybe I'd consider the Maleceptor. Not at that laughably bad price though
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/10/27 15:33:07
P.S.A. I won't read your posts if you break it into a million separate quotes and make an eyesore of it.
2014/10/27 15:53:01
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Knight Tactica p.177)
You got played again by your opponent (I assume this is the same Tau guy you played against before). He can't charge you on the first turn if he's going first. You should have had one full turn of shooting to kill those gaunts.
If this is the same guy, you need to find somebody else to play against. This is the second time he has cheated against you. If it is somebody new, then you need to ask for a rematch on account of the fact that you guys played it wrong.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/10/27 15:55:15
2014/10/27 16:03:56
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Knight Tactica p.177)
You got played again by your opponent (I assume this is the same Tau guy you played against before). He can't charge you on the first turn if he's going first. You should have had one full turn of shooting to kill those gaunts.
If this is the same guy, you need to find somebody else to play against. This is the second time he has cheated against you. If it is somebody new, then you need to ask for a rematch on account of the fact that you guys played it wrong.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
ill take two!
2014/10/27 16:27:51
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Knight Tactica p.177)
I had high hopes for you!! Tough matchup first opponent too.....It's too bad you landed your Flyrants. I feel like had you not done that you would have had more of a chance.
On a side note, I decided on the list I am going to be bringing for my next 1850 (FW allowed, limited LOW, allies allowed although 2 sources max, and Tyranids can self ally, will be using LVOFAQ and similar LVO mission packet):
CAD DakkaFlyrant - E.grubs
DakkaFlyrant - E.grubs
Malenthrope
3 Deep striking Rippers
3 Deep striking Rippers
3 Deep striking Rippers
3 Deep striking Rippers
15 Gargoyles
Mawloc
Mawloc
Tyrannofex - Adrenal Glands, E.grubs
Allies DakkaFlyrant - E.grubs
Venomthrope
3 Deep striking Rippers
Tyrannofex - Adrenal Glands, E.grubs
Total = 1845
Played a two games using two of the missions in the packet. Lost 6-7 against Fire Cadre Tau with FWHQ, 2 sniper teams, Riptide, and 2 solo fusion suits. Mission was eliminate 3 targets (worth 4 points as primary), modified maelstrom (worth 3 points as secondary), and each tertiary worth 1 point with a modified First blood so each player can achieve it. There were a couple misplays on my part, and a couple misplays by my opponent. Otherwise great guy and cool fluffy list. However, does anyone know how killing an Ethereal counts towards the final point count at the end of a game that doesn't use VP scoring?
Second game was against SM/GK using the Sicarian tank. His list included a Chaplain, Libby, a unit of 6 Terminators, 2 Tac squads with Lascannons, 2 Tac squads in Rhinos with melta, 2 Legion of the Damned with combi-melta, multimelta, and meltagun, the Stormclaw gunship?, and a unit of GK Terminators. I won this game 7-6. It was a mission that involved table quarters + middle circle (4 points as primary), modified maelstrom (worth 3 points as secondary), and each tertiary worth 1 point with a modified First blood so each player can achieve it. Again, my opponent was good guy. We both had our share of luck, including one of my Mawlocs wiping half his HQ terminator unit out turn 2 and denying his Gate of infinity turn 1. He had his Sicarian tank immobilize itself turn 2. Actually, now that I've written the bit about luck, luck was definitely in my favor through that game. Either way, great opponent, awesome list.
Couple thoughts:
Gargoyles, didn't do much. Actually, they didn't do anything except force my opponents to shoot at them, in order to remove the mobile cover unit for my larger units. They almost got to tie up a Riptide game 1.
Double T-fex. Wow. SUPER durable. Given, both my opponents were expecting armor heavy opponents, so the matchups slightly favored me because the lack of AP2 weaponry really hurt them.
Mawlocs are awesome. Enough said.
I could probably find something better to put points into instead of the Gargoyles, but the buffer between drop marines is nice to have...
What do you guys thinks?
2014/10/27 16:27:58
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Knight Tactica p.177)
You got played again by your opponent (I assume this is the same Tau guy you played against before). He can't charge you on the first turn if he's going first. You should have had one full turn of shooting to kill those gaunts.
If this is the same guy, you need to find somebody else to play against. This is the second time he has cheated against you. If it is somebody new, then you need to ask for a rematch on account of the fact that you guys played it wrong.
There's no rule stating you can't charge on the first turn. The board is just very short and it seems like they deployed 12 inches in, so there was only 12 inches between them.
Normally, you deploy 12 inches away from the centre so that there is effectively 24 inches between the armies so that you can't charge on the first turn, or at least it's very unlikely.
Even if you infiltrate or scout, in those rules they specifically state you can't charge on the first turn.
I hate the new model, looks like a blind lictor :/
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/10/27 16:30:16
YMDC = nightmare
2014/10/27 16:43:42
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Knight Tactica p.177)
You got played again by your opponent (I assume this is the same Tau guy you played against before). He can't charge you on the first turn if he's going first. You should have had one full turn of shooting to kill those gaunts.
If this is the same guy, you need to find somebody else to play against. This is the second time he has cheated against you. If it is somebody new, then you need to ask for a rematch on account of the fact that you guys played it wrong.
There's no rule stating you can't charge on the first turn. The board is just very short and it seems like they deployed 12 inches in, so there was only 12 inches between them.
Normally, you deploy 12 inches away from the centre so that there is effectively 24 inches between the armies so that you can't charge on the first turn, or at least it's very unlikely.
Even if you infiltrate or scout, in those rules they specifically state you can't charge on the first turn.
I hate the new model, looks like a blind lictor :/
Hmmm, you may be right. Looking at the digital edition of the rulebook, I can't seem to find anything specifically forbidding it. Had it in my head that it was impossible, but I guess not if you are playing on a too-small board.
2014/10/27 17:08:52
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Knight Tactica p.177)
You got played again by your opponent (I assume this is the same Tau guy you played against before). He can't charge you on the first turn if he's going first. You should have had one full turn of shooting to kill those gaunts.
If this is the same guy, you need to find somebody else to play against. This is the second time he has cheated against you. If it is somebody new, then you need to ask for a rematch on account of the fact that you guys played it wrong.
There's no rule stating you can't charge on the first turn. The board is just very short and it seems like they deployed 12 inches in, so there was only 12 inches between them.
Normally, you deploy 12 inches away from the centre so that there is effectively 24 inches between the armies so that you can't charge on the first turn, or at least it's very unlikely.
Even if you infiltrate or scout, in those rules they specifically state you can't charge on the first turn.
I hate the new model, looks like a blind lictor :/
Drop one set of rippers + venomthrope you either straight up ONLY need 1 malanthrope or you could afford 2 there (I recommend only having 1).
Everyone is so big on mobile screening via gargoyles.. I guess it comes down to the meta you play in. If your tables are bare and have very little cover sure but otherwise MOST of the tourneys I've played in (really all of them) have not had this issue in the last 2 years. Gargoyles are you paying for a band aid. Getting 3+ cover vs no cover is of course nice but I'd rather rely on tactics in game than paying a tax on something like that. If gargoyles had any punch or synergy or were really cheap I'd be in love with them like I was in 5th but man, they just suck now.
Mawlocs, Flyrants, Malanthrope are all nice. mawloc is a hidden gem. Your army lacks anything scary in CC.. I'd recommend sticking a dima in there with your list. He is a single model that changes a list from exposed to scary. Yeah he isn't fast but with most Nid lists these days that isn't AS BAD as it seems.. you are a ball moving up with the malanthrope vs a bum rushing abandon cover list.
You got played again by your opponent (I assume this is the same Tau guy you played against before). He can't charge you on the first turn if he's going first. You should have had one full turn of shooting to kill those gaunts.
If this is the same guy, you need to find somebody else to play against. This is the second time he has cheated against you. If it is somebody new, then you need to ask for a rematch on account of the fact that you guys played it wrong.
There's no rule stating you can't charge on the first turn. The board is just very short and it seems like they deployed 12 inches in, so there was only 12 inches between them.
Normally, you deploy 12 inches away from the centre so that there is effectively 24 inches between the armies so that you can't charge on the first turn, or at least it's very unlikely.
Even if you infiltrate or scout, in those rules they specifically state you can't charge on the first turn.
I hate the new model, looks like a blind lictor :/
Drop one set of rippers + venomthrope you either straight up ONLY need 1 malanthrope or you could afford 2 there (I recommend only having 1).
Everyone is so big on mobile screening via gargoyles.. I guess it comes down to the meta you play in. If your tables are bare and have very little cover sure but otherwise MOST of the tourneys I've played in (really all of them) have not had this issue in the last 2 years. Gargoyles are you paying for a band aid. Getting 3+ cover vs no cover is of course nice but I'd rather rely on tactics in game than paying a tax on something like that. If gargoyles had any punch or synergy or were really cheap I'd be in love with them like I was in 5th but man, they just suck now.
Mawlocs, Flyrants, Malanthrope are all nice. mawloc is a hidden gem. Your army lacks anything scary in CC.. I'd recommend sticking a dima in there with your list. He is a single model that changes a list from exposed to scary. Yeah he isn't fast but with most Nid lists these days that isn't AS BAD as it seems.. you are a ball moving up with the malanthrope vs a bum rushing abandon cover list.
you can only not charge if you use infiltrate. Scout won't allow you to charge on game turn 1 as well iirc. Otherwise the rule that "you can never charge on turn 1" has been left out in 7th afaik.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/10/27 17:10:36
20k+
10k+
2014/10/27 17:12:16
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Knight Tactica p.177)
Stealth Team (147)
•Marker Drone
•Shas'vre
•Markerlight
•Velocity Tracker
Fast Attack:
Piranha (50)
•PDTR
Piranha (50
•PDTR
Piranha (40)
He went first. On turn 1, Hormagaunts charged FW team, Flyrant charged Riptide, and Carnifex tried to charge a Piranha but was stopped by a wall. I just quit turn 2, because there was no point in even playing. Good news, I found a new ultracompetitive list for nids. (The one he used)
How were both armies deployed?
When choosing board edges, I rolled a one. Long edges.
Just a quick look at the Tau list says you go cheated again or the opponent is still not reading the codex. Drone controller on the Riptide? Either misplayed or miss reading drone rules. Did he play the markerlights correclty?
2014/10/27 17:36:46
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Knight Tactica p.177)
SHUPPET wrote: I didn't see the supposed points costs the original time. Although I remain skeptical ( if he knows how many points they cost why is an ambiguous number) but if those prices are anything close to true, both are ridiculously bad. Like, contending with Trygon Prime level of bad. Trying halving those points and trying again, even then I personally wouldn't touch either as they are gimmicky and unreliable as gak. At a spam able price maybe I'd consider the Maleceptor. Not at that laughably bad price though
Toxicrine looks like it might be ok in terms of price (rumored 150 doesn't sound bad given its equipment, a Carnifex with a similar load-out is more expensive and less durable) and I wouldn't be surprised if it has a copy-paste of the Spore Cloud rule given what they did with the Ork's KFF (can be gotten in either HQ or on an expensive Heavy Support) and the rumor saying it is both shrouded and surrounded by a toxic fog. I initially thought the Maleceptor looked too expensive on first glance, but it then occurred to me it is basically the equivalent of Ahriman or Eldrad with a slightly modified Psychic Shriek. Both characters are well over 200 points and limited to 1-per army, so a generic unit with a similar ability being around 200 points seems fair enough.
In either event, if the rumors are true both creatures look like they were tailor made for countering Grav-spam (Bikes or Centurions). The Toxicrine has its 2+ poison pieplate with instant death potential and built-in shrouded to protect against return fire while the Maleceptor can bypass any tanking characters in front to get at the guns thanks to its power being a focused witchfire and its 4+/4++ offers a bit better innate resilience against grav than a 3+ armor alone (only wounds half the time and half the wounds are saved).
Gargoyles, didn't do much. Actually, they didn't do anything except force my opponents to shoot at them, in order to remove the mobile cover unit for my larger units. They almost got to tie up a Riptide game 1.
[...]
I could probably find something better to put points into instead of the Gargoyles, but the buffer between drop marines is nice to have...
What do you guys thinks?
I think part of the problem you had with the Gargoyles is that you only have one unit of them and no other units to provide saturation (everything else is multi-wound/low body count). If you have the models, you might want to swap a pair of Ripper broods for another brood of Gargoyles and see if that doesn't work out a bit better (they can sill be used to deepstrike if necessary). I myself tend to run at two broods at 1500 in conjunction with 40 odd Hormagaunts for added saturation. Might seem like a lot, but I've found they are handy as enablers for monstrous creatures. If they aren't screening then they are acting as assault grenades by locking things up for a turn while the monsters close in for the final blow.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2014/10/27 18:52:42
2014/10/27 18:28:05
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Knight Tactica p.177)
Stealth Team (147)
•Marker Drone
•Shas'vre
•Markerlight
•Velocity Tracker
Fast Attack:
Piranha (50)
•PDTR
Piranha (50
•PDTR
Piranha (40)
He went first. On turn 1, Hormagaunts charged FW team, Flyrant charged Riptide, and Carnifex tried to charge a Piranha but was stopped by a wall. I just quit turn 2, because there was no point in even playing. Good news, I found a new ultracompetitive list for nids. (The one he used)
How were both armies deployed?
When choosing board edges, I rolled a one. Long edges.
Just a quick look at the Tau list says you go cheated again or the opponent is still not reading the codex. Drone controller on the Riptide? Either misplayed or miss reading drone rules. Did he play the markerlights correclty?
I never used thr markerlights. I had to keep moving or get multi-charged by the Gaunts. I thought it was legal to put the DC on the Riptide.
It was a switch game. I was playing Tau and my usual Tau playing opponent was playing Nids.
Peregrine - If you like the army buy it, and don't worry about what one random person on the internet thinks.
2014/10/27 18:35:41
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Knight Tactica p.177)
Just a quick look at the Tau list says you go cheated again or the opponent is still not reading the codex. Drone controller on the Riptide? Either misplayed or miss reading drone rules. Did he play the markerlights correclty?
SBG wrote: I honestly think he's trolling at this point.
Lighten up on the kid please. It's obvious he is new, both to Tyranid tactics and the rules to the game (let alone other people's armies).
It's better to help him out with correct information and tactical advice rather than accusations of cheating and trolling. We need to encourage new players to the hobby, not vice versa.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/10/27 18:37:04
I and others have been giving him advice for days on his other thread, but to no effect whatsoever.
To the point where it is coming across as a purposeful attempt at 'doing it wrong'. Happy if I'm wrong, but look at the long thread he's got going about 'OP Hammerheads' that kill multipleflyrants per turn and you'll see what I mean. I've offered advice aplenty, but we're all entitled to our opinions. Cheers.
SBG wrote: I and others have been giving him advice for days on his other thread, but to no effect whatsoever.
To the point where it is coming across as a purposeful attempt at 'doing it wrong'. Happy if I'm wrong, but look at the long thread he's got going about 'OP Hammerheads' that kill multipleflyrants per turn and you'll see what I mean. I've offered advice aplenty, but we're all entitled to our opinions. Cheers.
Really? You think I'm TRYING to do it wrong? I've been trying to beat that bastard for a few months. I play the most competitive list I can vs. his unoptimized mess, and lose every single damn time thanks to always being disadvantaged purposefully by him. He won't play me if I have enough terrain on the board, he won't play me if there is a possibility he won't win because the objectives can't be camped. He BUYS HIS UNITS AND BUILDS THEM to be as effective as possible against nids, and abuses the hell out of the BS rules governing Tau and FMCs. I can guarantee I always go last due to my crappy rolling, and thanks to the absolute gak rules that say FMCs start in Gliding mode and can't switch into Swooping mode until your turn, my dual dakkarants always eat Railgun and Pulse Rifle shots first turn. While I roll 1s for my run moves, he's wiping entire squads of Gaunts with Submunition rounds that ignore cover, and dropping dual flamer deathstars into my Venomthropes and Zoanthropes. Do you know how fething infuriating that is? AND YOU ACCUSE ME OF TROLLING ABOUT IT? I've wasted hundreds of dollars on my bugs, and I can't win a single damn game with them.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/10/27 19:00:33
Peregrine - If you like the army buy it, and don't worry about what one random person on the internet thinks.
2014/10/27 19:12:44
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Knight Tactica p.177)
Verviedi wrote: Really? You think I'm TRYING to do it wrong? I've been trying to beat that bastard for a few months. I play the most competitive list I can vs. his unoptimized mess, and lose every single damn time thanks to always being disadvantaged purposefully by him. He won't play me if I have enough terrain on the board, he won't play me if there is a possibility he won't win because the objectives can't be camped. He BUYS HIS UNITS AND BUILDS THEM to be as effective as possible against nids, and abuses the hell out of the BS rules governing Tau and FMCs. I can guarantee I always go last due to my crappy rolling, and thanks to the absolute gak rules that say FMCs start in Gliding mode and can't switch into Swooping mode until your turn, my dual dakkarants always eat Railgun and Pulse Rifle shots first turn. While I roll 1s for my run moves, he's wiping entire squads of Gaunts with Submunition rounds that ignore cover, and dropping dual flamer deathstars into my Venomthropes and Zoanthropes. Do you know how fething infuriating that is? AND YOU ACCUSE ME OF TROLLING ABOUT IT? I've wasted hundreds of dollars on my bugs, and I can't win a single damn game with them.
"Always being disadvantaged purposefully by him"
"He won't play me if I have enough terrain on the board"
"He won't play me if there is a possibility he will lose"
"Buys his units and builds them to be as effective as possible against Nids"
As I and others have mentioned in the your thread, this is a problem with your opponent, not you. We have all given you advice on how to deal with him.
At some point we have faced off against Tau. I have a 4-1 record against my friends Tau and shall be playing him tomorrow since I am back in my hometown. jy2 has a batrep against Farsight Bomb. Tau are beatable - your opponent is just making it so you can't win.
In regards to your dice-rolling...we all have them
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/10/27 19:14:32
YMDC = nightmare
2014/10/27 19:14:41
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Knight Tactica p.177)
SBG wrote: I and others have been giving him advice for days on his other thread, but to no effect whatsoever.
To the point where it is coming across as a purposeful attempt at 'doing it wrong'. Happy if I'm wrong, but look at the long thread he's got going about 'OP Hammerheads' that kill multipleflyrants per turn and you'll see what I mean. I've offered advice aplenty, but we're all entitled to our opinions. Cheers.
Really? You think I'm TRYING to do it wrong? I've been trying to beat that bastard for a few months. I play the most competitive list I can vs. his unoptimized mess, and lose every single damn time thanks to always being disadvantaged purposefully by him. He won't play me if I have enough terrain on the board, he won't play me if there is a possibility he won't win because the objectives can't be camped. He BUYS HIS UNITS AND BUILDS THEM to be as effective as possible against nids, and abuses the hell out of the BS rules governing Tau and FMCs. I can guarantee I always go last due to my crappy rolling, and thanks to the absolute gak rules that say FMCs start in Gliding mode and can't switch into Swooping mode until your turn, my dual dakkarants always eat Railgun and Pulse Rifle shots first turn. While I roll 1s for my run moves, he's wiping entire squads of Gaunts with Submunition rounds that ignore cover, and dropping dual flamer deathstars into my Venomthropes and Zoanthropes. Do you know how fething infuriating that is? AND YOU ACCUSE ME OF TROLLING ABOUT IT? I've wasted hundreds of dollars on my bugs, and I can't win a single damn game with them.
Maybe stop posting for a while...sit the next couple of plays out.
You guys arent playing the game as its meant to be played. I'd find another activity to enjoy together thats more relaxing. Its plastic soldiers and army men.
SBG wrote: I and others have been giving him advice for days on his other thread, but to no effect whatsoever.
To the point where it is coming across as a purposeful attempt at 'doing it wrong'. Happy if I'm wrong, but look at the long thread he's got going about 'OP Hammerheads' that kill multipleflyrants per turn and you'll see what I mean. I've offered advice aplenty, but we're all entitled to our opinions. Cheers.
Really? You think I'm TRYING to do it wrong? I've been trying to beat that bastard for a few months. I play the most competitive list I can vs. his unoptimized mess, and lose every single damn time thanks to always being disadvantaged purposefully by him. He won't play me if I have enough terrain on the board, he won't play me if there is a possibility he won't win because the objectives can't be camped. He BUYS HIS UNITS AND BUILDS THEM to be as effective as possible against nids, and abuses the hell out of the BS rules governing Tau and FMCs. I can guarantee I always go last due to my crappy rolling, and thanks to the absolute gak rules that say FMCs start in Gliding mode and can't switch into Swooping mode until your turn, my dual dakkarants always eat Railgun and Pulse Rifle shots first turn. While I roll 1s for my run moves, he's wiping entire squads of Gaunts with Submunition rounds that ignore cover, and dropping dual flamer deathstars into my Venomthropes and Zoanthropes. Do you know how infuriating that is? AND YOU ACCUSE ME OF TROLLING ABOUT IT? I've wasted hundreds of dollars on my bugs, and I can't win a single game with them.
Alright. I've got a coffee now.
Sorry if I've offended you and that I've described your behaviour in that way. I should rephrase. The losses come across as somewhat self-inflicted due to your repeated games with a known cheater/rules manipulator.
You state that there are many rules that are ...tilted... to his benefit, and then continue to play against this opponent. That, to me, confers a certain cooperation with the opponent's 'rules bending' and the resultant frustration that you experience.
I've chosen this shorter 'trolling' descriptor as it was fewer words and easier to throw into the thread than a long-winded explanation of the sociological aspects to this situation. However, as in the other thread, my advice remains the same - don't play against people who "won't play if there's enough terrain on the board" or who MUST favour the game so heavily in their own direction that it's unwinnable by their opponent.
I can understand a need to get games in. I know. I haven't been able to play for about 6 months due to family stuff. But there's other things you can do while you wait for opponents that won't frustrate you to no end. In fact, you said before that you have other opponents from time to time, why not play them?
I won't play against people like the one you describe. It's not a game, it's a shooting gallery where you're the target. Your 'army switch' game favoured the Tyranids by simple deployment - don't you think that there's a connection between the fact that when he's Tau, he wants to start 48" away, and when he's Tyranids you were a foot away?
Again, sorry that I upset you. The way I would react to a player of that sort is different from the way you react - obviously, he's been a visitor in your home - but I allowed my frustration at yyour situation to come across as a personal attack, and I should not have. Best of luck with your games.
Verviedi wrote: He won't play me if I have enough terrain on the board, he won't play me if there is a possibility he won't win because the objectives can't be camped. He BUYS HIS UNITS AND BUILDS THEM to be as effective as possible against nids, and abuses the hell out of the BS rules governing Tau and FMCs.
Best advice that can be given then is to return the favor and refuse to play them. Sad, but unfortunately the only real option if they are going to be such a poor sport. It doesn't even matter what army you use if your opponent tailors everything to be in their favor. If you were Eldar for instance, he'd probably throw up all manner of blocks-line-of-sight terrain and use the Thrust move to constantly move his things out of sight for return fire while bringing nothing but missiles and fusion blasters.
Don't take it as a failing on your part. It isn't you or your army really, it's the opponent.
Edit:
I suppose on a more practical level, if you are willing to invest a bit more into your army consider a box or two of Hive Guard. They are the bane of skimmers thanks to their ignoring cover and can be hidden out of line of sight while retaining the ability to shoot. They also add more T6 saturation and can 1-shot Crisis Suits. You might also want to convert your Tervigon to a Tyrannofex with Acid Spray, as it is fairly resilient and will melt down Fire Warriors without much difficulty (if you do that, you might want to add a box of Warriors to your shopping list for more synapse). Your opponent clearly has a larger collection to draw from, which doesn't help matters.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/10/27 19:47:35
2014/10/27 19:27:22
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Knight Tactica p.177)
SBG wrote: I and others have been giving him advice for days on his other thread, but to no effect whatsoever.
To the point where it is coming across as a purposeful attempt at 'doing it wrong'. Happy if I'm wrong, but look at the long thread he's got going about 'OP Hammerheads' that kill multipleflyrants per turn and you'll see what I mean. I've offered advice aplenty, but we're all entitled to our opinions. Cheers.
Really? You think I'm TRYING to do it wrong? I've been trying to beat that bastard for a few months. I play the most competitive list I can vs. his unoptimized mess, and lose every single damn time thanks to always being disadvantaged purposefully by him. He won't play me if I have enough terrain on the board, he won't play me if there is a possibility he won't win because the objectives can't be camped. He BUYS HIS UNITS AND BUILDS THEM to be as effective as possible against nids, and abuses the hell out of the BS rules governing Tau and FMCs. I can guarantee I always go last due to my crappy rolling, and thanks to the absolute gak rules that say FMCs start in Gliding mode and can't switch into Swooping mode until your turn, my dual dakkarants always eat Railgun and Pulse Rifle shots first turn. While I roll 1s for my run moves, he's wiping entire squads of Gaunts with Submunition rounds that ignore cover, and dropping dual flamer deathstars into my Venomthropes and Zoanthropes. Do you know how fething infuriating that is? AND YOU ACCUSE ME OF TROLLING ABOUT IT? I've wasted hundreds of dollars on my bugs, and I can't win a single damn game with them.
First step is to not take what people say on the internet personally. Many people have many different opinions, and the best thing for you to do is not get upset. The worst thing you can do is feed the people who may or may not be trying to antagonize you by letting them get to you.
With that out of the way, there is another important rule to remember. It is a game. If you are getting upset and frustrated at the game, that is fine, those are natural responses in a competitive environment, but if you are never having fun you need to take a step back and try to ask yourself "why?"
The last rule to remember is that though armies may have advantages and disadvantages, some more than others on both sides of the spectrum, every army is absolutely playable right now. Anyone that says "blah, blah, op, broken, unplayable" really just isn't looking or trying hard enough in my eyes. I am sure Jy2 agrees, as he seems like me. Someone who appreciates underdogs, or disadvantages, or just being told something doesn't work and trying to prove them wrong.
If you are losing constantly, there are only 3 real reasons why this could be happening. The first could be the codex, not that the codex is bad or good, but is it the right fit for you? Second is your opponent, is he someone that is seemingly trying to take advantage of the situation and tip the odds in their favor in an unsporting way? Third is you, are you defeating yourself with your attitude towards your army/ opponent/ the game? These are important questions to consider.
It sounds like your opponent is a bit of a donkey butt and is trying to abuse the situation. The best way you can fight back is one of a number of ways. The first thing you can is stand your ground: do not submit to his abuse and insist that he play a fair game. If he refuses, don't play him. If you cater to his demands, than you are only enabling his behavior. Second, you can fight fire with fire: Think like he does, if he is catering a purely anti-nid, YET limited list, than build yours to counter his counters. Another thing you can do is address him directly, confront him about his behavior when off the table, try and get him to admit the behavior, otherwise it could go on and on.
Just remember, no one here is out to get you, at least no one worth paying attention to and the most important rule for warhammer is to try your hardest to have fun! Otherwise what is the point?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/10/27 19:34:24
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2014/10/27 19:32:08
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Knight Tactica p.177)
.....Bay Area Open GT 2013 - Best Tyranids 
.....LVO GT 2014 Team Tournament - Best Generals
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