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Another thing to keep in mind - whenever he casts a power while within 12" of one of your synapse creatures, his leadership is reduced by 3. Not a game-changer, as it doesn't prevent the power from going off like it used to, but when they do perils, it's a lot worse when they fail that leadership check. Might make him think twice about casting a WC 2 power around your Flyrants. For added nonsense, you could run Deathleaper, bringing even a LD 10 psyker down to LD 4 at best and LD 6 at worst

Finally, you have your own powerful psyhic powers. Psychic Scream isn't super nasty, but it's a nova power of its own and when you cast it against psykers, it is really good. You do 2D6 +2 and subtract their leadership. HOWEVER, remember shadow in the warp!!! Psykers have -3 to their leadership. So that LD 10 psyker just became LD 7. Or, better yet, all those Grey Knights that have the "Brotherhood of Psykers" special rule? Ok your LD was 9 but is now 6. This means that when you roll your 2d6 and get a 7 (average roll) that becomes a 9 and 3 terminators take invulnerable saves or die. You can see how much better it can get (oh hello Mr. Dreadknight - I rolled a 10. Please take 5 invulnerable saves right now)

It's also worth pointing out (because people seem to forget this a lot) that say you won combat against a unit like grey knight purifiers, or a Nemesis Dreadknight. Their leadership is still reduced by 3 if they're in Shadows. Then you further reduce it by whatever they lost combat by. If not for ATSKNF, you'd be sweeping marines left and right. This also works awesome against Daemons and their Deamonic Instability tests, as well as when you use psychic scream against them (as much of their army is a psyker, or at least the ones that you want dead)

So use your superior mobility and sucker punch them before they take a swing at you! Their threat range for the nova is 15", whereas yours is 30"! That's a big deal. And even if they get gate, they still have to get lucky with the scatter since they can't run before they psychic.

Am I crazy for prefering to run 2 zoans / 2 venos instead of a Malan? It just seems better to me idk why

 beardman3000 wrote:
Am I crazy for prefering to run 2 zoans / 2 venos instead of a Malan? It just seems better to me idk why

It's not really better or worse; it all depends on how the rest of your army looks

It does give you +2 warpcharge(or +4 if you run them solo), and you can spread your shrouded bubbles out a bit.

On that note, rumour has it that Nuenthrope will be a 3 man Zope squad upgrade, making sense with the "Warp Charge for Warp Blast" mechanic.

Could a gankload of free WC for warp Blast make it playable?

So no possible Pyschic Scream shenanigans plus a Neurothrope blast? It might also depend on the cost- of course it's currently at 150pts base, plus the. Nuerothrope upgrade...

 beardman3000 wrote:
Am I crazy for prefering to run 2 zoans / 2 venos instead of a Malan? It just seems better to me idk why

I prefer it myself...it does give just a little extra Powers of the Hive Mind! and WCs.

 Sinful Hero wrote:
So no possible Pyschic Scream shenanigans plus a Neurothrope blast? It might also depend on the cost- of course it's currently at 150pts base, plus the. Nuerothrope upgrade...

Well assuming you take the WC risk out of Zopes they might suddenly be worth it again. Severely mitigating the risk of cast failure AND deny, leaves you with just roll to hit (BS4) and roll to pen once with S10 AV1. Actually might be what Zopes need.

So in a No Forgeworld setting, I cant run the oh so nice Malanthrope, would the Malcepter be worth running as a durable Synapse anchor?

I need a bit more in my list and have 155pts free. Was thinging about a crone and dropping some Rippers for a Zoanthrope. But since I have to buy a new model any way (Tyrant, Crone or Malceptor), I am wondering if a T6 4+/5++ W6 beasty might be worth it in a troop heavy list. It would still gain from the Vope's shroud effect so could end up at a 2+ or 3+ cover save.

A Vope and 3xWarriors or 1xZope provides both the same shrouded and Syanpse bubble, and chips into the same amount of points of the rest of your army, and arguably performs better in a lot of regards.

The Maleceptor is maybe the worst or second model we have available to us right now.

 SHUPPET wrote:
The Maleceptor is maybe the worst or second model we have available to us right now.

truth.

Played a local GW 1500 tourney yesterday. First opponent had an Ork Stompa and the tractor beam thing. You guys know the drill, I just killed all of his ground guys and scored all but one of the scouring. Even put some wounds on the Stompa when I ran low on targets.

Second opponent was Salamanders and I tabled him. Third was Dark Eldar with everything mechanized, and he rolled a Skyfire nexus on his side of the board, then castled as much as he could on or near it. Game was done by turn 4, cant do much against that much twin linked fire power on MCs.

What was the DE players list like a bit more in depth?

Many venoms, 3x ravagers, 3x of the other not ravager thing, all filled with warriors. It started bad when my Warlord still took 3 wounds turn 1 with a 2+ cover.

 Iechine wrote:
Many venoms, 3x ravagers, 3x of the other not ravager thing, all filled with warriors. It started bad when my Warlord still took 3 wounds turn 1 with a 2+ cover.

I have 15k Nids and 10k DE, I love both armies. I cant think of a Worst match up for nids other can Venom/boat spam.

At least the Fliers arnt like 5th anymore and can start on the table, having 3 Razorwings + 3 Venoms and 6 Warrior boats can table a nids list in 1-2 turns.

3 zoan+neuro in spod will probably thick at something like 300 points. That could be a fun thing to drop in the mist of the enemy formation.

Syphon wounds into WC and then unleash an assault 4 BS 4 S10 AP 2 barrage. Than can mess a lot of stuff and are not that easy to remove.

 Amishprn86 wrote:

 Iechine wrote:
Many venoms, 3x ravagers, 3x of the other not ravager thing, all filled with warriors. It started bad when my Warlord still took 3 wounds turn 1 with a 2+ cover.

I have 15k Nids and 10k DE, I love both armies. I cant think of a Worst match up for nids other can Venom/boat spam.

At least the Fliers arnt like 5th anymore and can start on the table, having 3 Razorwings + 3 Venoms and 6 Warrior boats can table a nids list in 1-2 turns.

I was fine until the Skyfire-for-everyone came about, he had a poor deployment IMO and I felt like I was in a good spot for the win.

This is NOT me being a sore loser, but Id like to point out that I truly despise mysterious objectives and am glad that my gaming group ignores them and that most tournaments do as well.

After getting t Nov 8th White dwarf and I can I really like both the Tyrannocyte and the Sporocyst, I most likely wont play much of the Sporocyst at all, but I feel it has it uses.

One thing I would like to try (going to test this out before I even buy anything next week) Is 4 Tyrannocyte and 4 Sporocysts, Drop them in a Line midway/in opponent DZ and Spawn the Mucolid and try to get a Charge off right away with them (range is hard with 1/2 charge).

Having 2 DakkaFlyrants, and 2 Hive Guard and 1 Zoan set Dropping in aswell (1 tervigon/Gant unit in back for Scoring) at 2000pts seems strong at the same time seems like many things can go wrong.

Will also be testing, 2 Dakkaflyrants, with 2 DakkaFexs, 1 Exocrine and 2 Hive Guard, 1 Zoan, all but Flyrants with Drop Pods and a Wall with Coms, I will play against a Wave Serpent Army seeing a a hard Alpha strike turn 2 will do the trick.

 Iechine wrote:
Many venoms, 3x ravagers, 3x of the other not ravager thing, all filled with warriors. It started bad when my Warlord still took 3 wounds turn 1 with a 2+ cover.

As a DE player, I can think of something worse - 54 Reavers. Less poison, but can use JSJ to kite even Exocrine and then once you move up the board, still beat absolutely every unit you own in the game in assault.

But yeah DE isn't an optimal match up if it's played well.

 SHUPPET wrote:

 Iechine wrote:
Many venoms, 3x ravagers, 3x of the other not ravager thing, all filled with warriors. It started bad when my Warlord still took 3 wounds turn 1 with a 2+ cover.

As a DE player, I can think of something worse - 54 Reavers. Less poison, but can use JSJ to kite even Exocrine and then once you move up the board, still beat absolutely every unit you own in the game in assault.

But yeah DE isn't an optimal match up if it's played well.

As a DE player I wouldnt do this against Bugs,

I would just take 14 Venoms, Couple Fliers, some blasters here or there and your golden

14 venoms. Sheesh. Not gunna have many points for AT there. But yeah Venoms are pretty hard to deal with for Nids.

How did his whole army use 1 sky fire nexus? The rules say "a" unit benefits from mysterious objectives - that means just 1 per.

 tetrisphreak wrote:
How did his whole army use 1 sky fire nexus? The rules say "a" unit benefits from mysterious objectives - that means just 1 per.

Tetrisphreak is correct.

Most Mysterious Objectives (with the exception of '1') affects just 'a' unit, including the Skyfire Nexus. The whole army doesn't benefit from it. The controlling player needs to nominate 1 of his units to receive the benefits of the mysteriousness of the objective.

Sounds like your opponent might have misplayed it.

Playing it the other way where "everybody shares!" Can get pretty unbalanced very quickly, as your game showed, Iechine

No worries, live and learn I guess. No prize on the line so I dont mind.

Even so, I've regularly been screwed over by my opponent rolling up a Skyfire Nexus, even when he does play it properly.

 SHUPPET wrote:
14 venoms. Sheesh. Not gunna have many points for AT there. But yeah Venoms are pretty hard to deal with for Nids.

You dont need AT for Nids, they have No armor.

 Amishprn86 wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:
14 venoms. Sheesh. Not gunna have many points for AT there. But yeah Venoms are pretty hard to deal with for Nids.

You dont need AT for Nids, they have No armor.

I believe he is looking at the list from a Take-All-Comer's perspective. Anyone can tailor. Question is, can you build a list that can handle all the other armies as well as Tyranids? The list is no good if it can't do that.

 Iechine wrote:
Played a local GW 1500 tourney yesterday. First opponent had an Ork Stompa and the tractor beam thing. You guys know the drill, I just killed all of his ground guys and scored all but one of the scouring. Even put some wounds on the Stompa when I ran low on targets.

Second opponent was Salamanders and I tabled him. Third was Dark Eldar with everything mechanized, and he rolled a Skyfire nexus on his side of the board, then castled as much as he could on or near it. Game was done by turn 4, cant do much against that much twin linked fire power on MCs.

Yeah, castles are tough for us, about the only answers are Mawloc , Biovores, or maybe our new super spore dudes (if they can DS and exlode on the same turn)....I guess Podding in a Acid spray Tyranofex could distract the foe as well.

 jy2 wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:
14 venoms. Sheesh. Not gunna have many points for AT there. But yeah Venoms are pretty hard to deal with for Nids.

You dont need AT for Nids, they have No armor.

I believe he is looking at the list from a Take-All-Comer's perspective. Anyone can tailor. Question is, can you build a list that can handle all the other armies as well as Tyranids? The list is no good if it can't do that.

But if you play by the rules you dont even chose a army or list until you know the Points and game type. So really, I can have 5 armies, see what Game type it is and then pick the best army for that objective. But no one plays like that.