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2014/11/09 23:27:52
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Knight Tactica p.177)
Verviedi wrote: Can I have a list that will let me win games but not get me accusations of being a WAACTFG?
LOL no not in this game. Some people can't stand losing to the point that you could bring 3x Maleceptors, 3 squads of max size spoe mines, 54 Rippers and 3 Haruspex, all lead by their mighty warlord Old One Eye, and people would still accuse you of being WAAC when you beat them. The same mentality exists in Starcraft and Dota, some people hate admitting their mistakes and these are the people who will still be thinking 10 years from now that their unfocused list of whatever Space Marine crap they think looks the coolest should be more than capable of delivering free wins against other armies because space marines are the best, and anything that can stomp them must be overpowered cheese. Rest assured until their mentality improves the player won't either.
I think you should IGNORE the whiners, and draw your own line where you think the cheese begins, as relying on the tearbears to do it for you will result in either losing every game to them or being a WAAC p.o.s., so don't let this affect your builds. As a player of multiple armies it's very hard to justify calling anything in Tyranids cheese, which is the main reason my Tau went back on the shelf and Nids became my main - I don't like restricting myself from the best units in the dex but in Tau's case they were too much and I couldn't build my list to be the most competitive that they could be without bringing some stupid cheese build, so I drew the line. Nids hardest is still very balanced, and not impossible for any army to have a good game against.
Read my sig, Jy2 explains why it's OK to care about winning and play at higher levels, and if you aren't building to win well then you probably shouldn't rage and throw a temper tantrum when you lose seeing as winning isn't that important for you. I find that I'm happy with the outcome of a game win or lose, and the real WAAC players are the ones who get upset with a loss and try to take a morale high ground like "Your list shouldn't be any stronger than the power level I have decided is perfect, which just coincidentally is the same as my ragtag list, and if you beat it ipyour list is obviously too OP and not in the spirit of the game".
They are saying what suits their current position, not something well thought out, they shouldn't be payed any mind.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2014/11/10 00:04:53
P.S.A. I won't read your posts if you break it into a million separate quotes and make an eyesore of it.
2014/11/09 23:32:44
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Knight Tactica p.177)
Yeah, there's a certain stigma attached to "WAAC" lists, and some people will judge you for it no matter what you do. As long as you don't go out of your way to crush someone with a less competitive list, it should, for most decent people, be fine. Like others have said, it's all in the attitude. Have a chat with you opponent, compliment his army, give advice if he wants to take it, let him go back and shoot with a unit he's forgotten about. If you make the game enjoyable for both players, it doesn't really matter that you've tabled him by Turn 4.
Looks like an interesting list. I don't know if I'd pay the points for the Adrenal glands on the gargs. Especially when there's so few of them. Personally I just prefer the bodies for units like that (when I'm not playing Apoc with my 1 model/1000 points rule, that is )
Something you might also consider is taking out the Lord of Change and a squad of horrors to run a unit of screamers with as many ML3 heralds of tzeentch on a disc as you have points for. You'll have to do the math to see what you'll have to change around and what you can fit (and afford! Those suckers are expensive!) but I like the much cheaper ML3 and the stupid shenanigans that a screamer unit can bring to the table. At the very least, you're likely looking at 2+ re-rollable jink (and it's not hard to get cursed earth and the grimoire to give them their 2++ re-rollable). What I like about it now is that it's not broken - it doesn't pump out 24 strength 6 shots or do most of the shenanigans that it could do in sixth. But strength 5 AP 2 armourbane in close combat is nothing to be sniffed at, nor is the amount of regular attacks they can put out. Plus 2-3 Tzeralds give you like 9 warp charge for 360 points (if you give them the discs to keep up with the screamers), all in ONE FOC SLOT. That's a BIG deal if you want to try a psychic nonsense army
Verviedi wrote: Can I have a list that will let me win games but not get me accusations of being a WAACTFG?
WAACTFG is the attitude, not the army behind a person.
Agree with pinecone if you still want to have people to play games.
I brought only 2 winged dakkarants, and some people chewed me out for "not knowing this game was for fun" and I was running a "WAAC list"
My list was:
Flyrant (Devs+eGrubs)
Flyrant (Devs+eGrubs)
Rippers
Rippers
30 Termagants w/ 15 devs
Zoanthrope
Venomthrope
Dakkafex
Mawloc
Exocrine
That looks like a really solid list. As multiple people have said, WAAC isn't about the list. If you're going to win "at all costs", you're not going to be playing a dice game haha. If you're cheating on movement and measurement and giving yourself unfair advantages that are outside of the legal rules of the game, then yes you are WAAC. I'm certain that you're not doing any of those things, simply because of that thread that you had where that Tau player pulled that sort of stuff on you (like abusing deployment and terrain setup). Whoever thinks you're WAAC, just explain to them what that guy was doing.
If you are using sound strategy and tactics to play a good list at a high level, then good for you! Those other guys should aspire to be as good a general as you. If they were, then they would have every bit as good of a chance to beat you. In the Grey Knight player's defense, 1500 is a tough points value to play a deathstar at. So much of the army is tied up in that one unit, it's tough to play if you don't know the game really well.
My advice for you going forward is this: keep improving your game and be gracious in victory as well as defeat. I don't mean to say that I think you're not doing that, but often times I will chat with my friends after the game, helping them to see where they went wrong during the game if I notice something "why were you shooting at my Pyrovore on the turn that I landed my Hive Tyrant?", to which my opponent would say, "Well....I was just really confused. I'd never seen that one unit before and I didn't understand why you would ever land your Flyrant. It felt like a trap". But the point is I try to help them better understand my army as I try to better understand their tactics so that both of us can improve. It's usually a great discussion.
Finally, the easiest way to not be even mistakenly called WAAC is to bring two lists (as Jy2 mentioned not long ago). Once you know your army (and have played someone at least once) you'll likely know the general power level of their list and can adjust your list accordingly. When I want to try out one of my better lists, I just tell my opponent before the game starts. I show them my list and say, "how do you feel about going up against something like this?" There's nothing wrong with them saying, "no thanks I don't feel like playing a competitive list. I'd rather play at a more casual level because that's where my list is at", and I can then choose a different set-up. If I ever rent out some space at my FLGS what I would love to do is say, "here are my 6 lists. Roll a D6, and I'll play that one. You can change your list however you'd like after you see my list if you want". That's my dream haha
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/11/10 00:12:04
2014/11/10 00:40:18
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Knight Tactica p.177)
AG on Gargoyles used to be very important, IDK about now days, But S4 on the charge against like vehicles was very good at one point... I remember 5th Ed I did this all the time and It did wonders, But the game was such a different world at that point.
What if I told you... The GK guy was the Tau player from that thread!
He actually was. He switched armies to GKs for some reason.
Well then it all makes sense. Odd that he switched to an army that is much tougher to win with against Tyranids, but good for you! Have some fun and bring the hurt. Grey Knights are typically a great matchup for us as long as we don't give too many chances for them to force kill our big gribblies. Keep him at 17.5 inch range and you'll win pretty much every game. Also, make sure that when you roll psychic scream (5) you use it EVERY TURN, on 3 or maybe even 4 dice. All his units are psykers, so you'll be rolling 2d6 + 2 and then subtracting his leadership, but since you'll have him within Shadow in the Warp range he is going to be really sad. -3 to his leadership applies for that power as well so it'll be 2d6 + 2 minus 7 or 6. That's going to be a lot of wounds that bypass armor saves and cover saves, but not invulnerable saves (and make sure he tests for leadership at the end of the psychic phase if you do enough damage). Sad terminators are sad
2014/11/10 01:05:46
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Knight Tactica p.177)
Living Artillery Node:
3 Warriors(BS)
Exocrine
3 Biovores
Aegis Line w/ Quad gun
His List:
Spoiler:
This is approximate because I'm not the most familiar with CSM.
Chaos Lord (Mark of Khorne, Demon Weapon that gave +2 Stength and D6 extra attacks)
Daemon Prince (Burning Brand, Khorne, Power Armor, Wings)
15 Khorne Berzekers w/ a Champion (Power Weapon)
5 Plague Marines in a Rhino (Dozer Blade)
5 Plague Marines in a Rhino (Dozer Blade)
10 Cultists
10 Cultists
Heldrake
Chaoes Land Raider (Dozer Blade) <- I think this was a forgeworld variant, because it had all of the Khorne Bezerkers and the lord inside it.
Forgeworld Predator w/ 2 TL-Heavy Bolters, and a Torrent)
3 Obliterators
Mission: Maelstrom (Tactical Escalation).
Deployment (Hammer and Anvil):
Spoiler:
I deployed 1st, and put out my Aegis line at my deployment edge. I had the Malanthrope on the Quad gun in the middle with the Exocrine on one side and the Carnifex on the other, and the biovores trailing out behind. The warriors were to the Carnifex side. The Gargoyle were flanked beside the Exocrine with a little conga-line to get shrouded from the Mawloc.
I put the Termagants, Tyrannofex, and Hormagants w/ Tyranid Prime in Tyrannocytes, and left them and my mawloc in reserves.
He counter deployed me well with the Land Raider move up the middle toward the Malantrhope, and the Rhinos on the same flank as the Gargoyles, but also behind a large piece of terrain that was giving them cover saves against the Quad Gun. The Predator was between the Rhinos. Inexplicably he put the cultist right out in the open on his deployment edge. To the flank away from the gargoyles. I guess his reasoning was so that he could run them toward Maelstrom objectives early.
Turn 1:
Spoiler:
I went first. My biovores evaporated a squad of cultists, while my warriors did some damage to the other squad and pinned it. I advanced the Carnifex onto terrain, but left him just in range of the Malanthrope so that he would have a 3+ cover. The Gargoyles moved forward onto terrain and conga lined back to the Malan for a cover save. Otherwise things sat where they were and took pot shots.
On his turn he advanced his rhinos, Land Raider, and Predators. He glided his Demon Prince onto the terrain piece facing down my Carnifex. As I had hoped, he disembarked the plague marines, and fired pretty much everything into the gargoyles. The torrent on the tank did good damage, but I rolled well on saves vs the rest. Lost about 12 Gargoyles. The Demon prince put a wound on my Carnifex, and then attempted to charge and took a wound from overwatch. He failed the 10 inch charge. I don't know why he attempted this.
Score
Tyranids: 2 (first blood)
CSM: 0
Turn 2:
Spoiler:
All of my reserves came in. The Mawloc hit! on top of 5 plague marines, and did 5 wounds, but he made 2 FNP rolls. So he did 2 more wounds, and they made both FNP. So he mishapped and died. My Termagants came in behind the Rhinos. They scattered a bit, but there wasn't anywhere for them to go so they basically hit the target. The Tyrannofex came in in front of the Rhinos. My warlord came in beside the Demon prince, but behind a rhino as well so that the pod could pop it. I advanced my Carnifex right at that demon prince, considering a charge if shooting took it down to 1 wound. The Gargoyles advanced to the 2 remaining marines that the Mawloc left. Everything else stayed gunlined up.
My Tyrannofex started shooting. He hit a Marine, the predator (primary Target), and a Rhino with both templates, but only managed to take a hull point of the rhino. Then my Termagants opened up and killed the predator. My Tyranid prime, Exocrine, and Carnifex all fired into the Deamon prince, and killed it. Honestly, the Exocrine did all the work. (4 wounds, 3 failed jinks). The warriors killed a couple cultists, but failed to pin this time. Quad gun failed to hit a rhino which would have gotten a good cover save. The bioves Killed 4 plague marines.
Then came the 3 Tyrannocytes. They each had 5 small blasts that had to fire at the closest target. One shot at the remaining plague marine and managed to kill it, and also 3 Termagants (Scatter). One shot at the back of a rhino, and did one hull point to immobilize it. It also killed 3 Termagants, a Gargoyle, and 2 Hormagants. The last one shot at the same rhino, but was hitting front armor. It killed 4 Hormagants. This was a thoroughly frustrating affair. Having to roll 15 times for scatter, and it was scattering all over the place. Because I had gobs of gribbles in the vicinity, I took more damage than my opponent.
Spoiler:
In assault, my 7 remaining gargoyles charged into the 2 remaining plague marines where they would stay for quite some time.
On his turn 2, his heldrake came in (I should have interceptored it with the quad gun, but forgot I could). It killed 4 termagants (leaving me all 10 Devourers, but no more fleshborers). His Oblits came in behind my Biovores and killed one. He advanced his Land Raider towards my Aegis, and disembarked. The Lord split off to tangle with my malanthrope, while the Bezerkers went after my Warriors. Shooting did nothing with a 2+ cover save. He actually failed both of his charges (A 2" charge over the Aegis he rolled a 3, and a 1" charge over the aegis he roll snake eyes). I felt bad for him, so I just told him to play as if he made the charges. In assault, they killed 1 warrior, and I killed one Bezerker. The lord took a wound off of the Malanthrope. The Malanthrope's Challenge ability saved it.
Score
Tyranids: 4 (first blood)
CSM: 0
Turn 3:
Spoiler:
There wasn't all that much todo. I headed my Hormagants toward the Bezerkers. My Termagants got in position to kill the immobilized rhino. The Carnifex moved toward the land raider. The TFex fired both templates at the rear armor of the remaining Rhino, and did 1 wound. It only had 1 hull point left, so he changed it, but did 6 wounds. HOW + 4 Attacks didn't roll a 4+ to kill the damn thing. The biovores moved up to take the quad gun, and took 2 wounds off the Heldrake shaking and stunning it. The Carnifex also shot at it, but it saved the only glance. The Exocrine did 3 wounds to the Obliterators. In assault my warriors killed another Bezerker then died. The Malanthrope died..
NOTE: I forgot to shoot the Tyrannocytes.
On his turn. He put his bezerkers back into the land raider and claimed an objective with it. He also got his cultists onto an objective, and his living Rhino onto an objective to score ascendancy. His Lord assaulted my exocrine and did 2 wounds while saving the 1 wound I did back on his 4++.
Score
Tyranids: 7 (first blood)
CSM: 4
Turn 4:
Spoiler:
There wasn't much to do. My Tyrannofex finally killed the rhino that had been vexing him. The Termagants scored an objective. The hormagants + Prime scored an objective. The quad gun finished the Heldrake, thanks to the Biovores making synapse.
With most things dead or locked in combat, it was time for the Tyrannocytes to do their thing. 1 was closer to the oblits, and the other 2 were closer to the Cultists. I did 7 wounds to the 2 oblits, and they failed 3 saves and died! At this point, a friend started chatting with my opponent. Because it takes so damn long to fire the Tyrannocytes. I rolled the 10 blasts on the Cultists. At the end there were something like 30, 4+ covers saves (GTG on area) for him to make on 8 cultists. It was absurd. The Cultists died.
Spoiler:
Then it was time for Mr. Big Time. The Carnifex moved to charge the Land Raider. He did 1 glance with Hammer of Wrath, and 2 Pens with his attacks. One of the pens rolled an explode which killed 2 Bezerkers. In assault, my Exocrine took 2 wounds, and did 1 back.
On his turn his dwindling bezerkers charged my Dakkafex with a battle cry about how Khorne was going to be so pissed that they wrecked the car. 2 died to overwatch, and they did 2 wounds to the Dakkfex, and he did 1 back. His lord actually failed to wound the exocrine, but made his 4++.
Tyranids: 10 (first blood)
CSM: 4
Turn 5:
Spoiler:
He just had 4 Bezerkers left, and the lord. So I sent the Biovore, and Tyrannofex in to help the Exocrine, and the Hormagants and Tyranid Prime to help the Dakkafex. The Tyranid Prime did his thing, and all of the Bezerkers died. More Surprising, the Tfex put 4 wounds on the lord, and he failed 3 saves and died (after killing the exocrine). Complete Tabling.
Final Score:
Tyranid: 17 (First Blood, Warlord, Line Breaker)
CSM: Tabled.
My Thoughts on the Tyrannocytes:
One test is not sufficient to arrive at long term conclusions, but They did what I wanted them to do. Got my stuff in position to pop tanks. However, their shooting with the blasts was so slow, and did more damage to my stuff than his on the turn they arrived. They dropped a mini deathstar next to his mini deathstars (Demon Prince, and Bezerkers in a Land Raider), but the Demon Prince died to shooting, and the Land Raider moved away, and it took several turns for me to catch the guys inside. Unless you are facing a really gunliney army, I am not sure that the pods are going to be a good Melee delivery system. Also, if you have them delivering gants, you should probably stick to deathspitters, or keep your distance more. I think I'm going to drop the Prime + Hormagants from my list in favor of a Flyrant for the next game. Maybe some zoeys and rippers.
2014/11/10 01:35:19
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Knight Tactica p.177)
What if I told you... The GK guy was the Tau player from that thread! He actually was. He switched armies to GKs for some reason.
He swapped from last year's cheese-flavor-army to this year's one, and then complains that Tyranid are cheese. After of course using a bunch of WAAC tactics to get the win last time, and refusing to play on even terms, he accuses anybody to beat him of being TFG.
Seriously, feth this guy. I don't even want to hear about him anymore as he is like the definition of the worst type of player 40k brings.
Automatically Appended Next Post: A month or two from now those GK are gonna have SW allies for pods. Mark my words.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2014/11/10 01:37:04
2014/11/10 02:09:20
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Knight Tactica p.177)
Hey, quick thought. Would it be worth adding a Tyranid Prime to a group of Devourer Gaunts for protected Synapse in the Tyrannocyte? Instead of needing ANOTHER Tyrannocyte to deliver the Synapse, why not have a single Prime in a Brood. 17 Gaunts and a Prime... Uses up a valuable HQ but...
2014/11/10 02:18:19
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Knight Tactica p.177)
Probably depends if you think you even need synapse after dropping in. With flyrants you can move within 12" and get things under control if you need it. Several gribblies can usually function fine out of it anyway(Mawlocs/Dimachaerons).
So i'm kind of new here, been lurking here for a few days in this thread to see what Tyranids where up too and I was very surprised to see GW releasing new models and even giving us back our mycetic spores! I shelfed my tyranids shortly after the 'new' dex was released, and now I want to give them a shot again, first on a non competitive level, and maby attend a few small tourny's after I refined my list.
Currently, this is what I want to run:
1750 total
HQ flyrant with double BL dakka and electroshock grubs 240pts
Elite
Hive guard 2x 110pts
Vthrope 2x 90pts
Zthorpe 50pts
Troops
Horma's 15x 75pts
Terma's 30x 120pts
Tervigon with crushing claws and electroshock grubs 220 pts
warriors with barbed strangler (3x) 100 pts
Fast attack
Give crone 155 pts
Heavy
Exocrine 170pts
Toxicrene 160 pts + Tyrannocyte 75 pts
Tyrannofex acid spray, electroshock grubs 185 pts
The units I'm not completely sure of are the Tervigon and the full brood of terma's, as i'm not sure if that unit would work well with the rest. I want to play a bit on the aggresive side, walking up the tyrannofex and horma's, the rest following. I could also take out 10 terma's, the tervigon and exocrine and add 20 gargoyles and 2 dakka fexes (this leaves me currently with 10 points to spare). I don't want to build a list accommodating only for the toxicrene, but i really like the rules and model, so a list in which it is an addition would be cool.
Feedback would be nice
2014/11/10 03:05:02
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Knight Tactica p.177)
What if I told you... The GK guy was the Tau player from that thread!
He actually was. He switched armies to GKs for some reason.
He swapped from last year's cheese-flavor-army to this year's one, and then complains that Tyranid are cheese. After of course using a bunch of WAAC tactics to get the win last time, and refusing to play on even terms, he accuses anybody to beat him of being TFG.
Seriously, feth this guy. I don't even want to hear about him anymore as he is like the definition of the worst type of player 40k brings.
Automatically Appended Next Post: A month or two from now those GK are gonna have SW allies for pods. Mark my words.
What do you mean? His 100% no scatter deepstriking Dreadknights are already devastating enough.
2014/11/10 04:13:40
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Knight Tactica p.177)
SharkoutofWata wrote: Hey, quick thought. Would it be worth adding a Tyranid Prime to a group of Devourer Gaunts for protected Synapse in the Tyrannocyte? Instead of needing ANOTHER Tyrannocyte to deliver the Synapse, why not have a single Prime in a Brood. 17 Gaunts and a Prime... Uses up a valuable HQ but...
As you can see in the batrep a few posts before yours I tried something very, very similar.
It is my opinion that a Tyranid prime is too expensive to be taken as Synapse only, and that you should look for an additional function for him in your army. Because he is limited in what function that can be, I suggest MEQ + MC killer. Just keep him away from TEQ.
2014/11/10 04:29:49
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Knight Tactica p.177)
trindaros wrote: So i'm kind of new here, been lurking here for a few days in this thread to see what Tyranids where up too and I was very surprised to see GW releasing new models and even giving us back our mycetic spores! I shelfed my tyranids shortly after the 'new' dex was released, and now I want to give them a shot again, first on a non competitive level, and maby attend a few small tourny's after I refined my list.
Currently, this is what I want to run:
1750 total
HQ flyrant with double BL dakka and electroshock grubs 240pts
Elite
Hive guard 2x 110pts
Vthrope 2x 90pts
Zthorpe 50pts
Troops
Horma's 15x 75pts
Terma's 30x 120pts
Tervigon with crushing claws and electroshock grubs 220 pts
warriors with barbed strangler (3x) 100 pts
Fast attack
Give crone 155 pts
Heavy
Exocrine 170pts
Toxicrene 160 pts + Tyrannocyte 75 pts
Tyrannofex acid spray, electroshock grubs 185 pts
The units I'm not completely sure of are the Tervigon and the full brood of terma's, as i'm not sure if that unit would work well with the rest. I want to play a bit on the aggresive side, walking up the tyrannofex and horma's, the rest following. I could also take out 10 terma's, the tervigon and exocrine and add 20 gargoyles and 2 dakka fexes (this leaves me currently with 10 points to spare). I don't want to build a list accommodating only for the toxicrene, but i really like the rules and model, so a list in which it is an addition would be cool.
Feedback would be nice
If you want to keep the core of your list, I would recommend dropping the something and finding the points for giving the Tervigon a Trannocyte. I don't think the Toxicrene will survive by itself and will give you some forward synapse. Do you have any biovores? You are so close to running a Living Artillery Formation.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/11/10 04:39:44
2014/11/10 06:58:44
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Knight Tactica p.177)
Since this is where the Tyranid players really lurk on dakka, I thought I would post this idea rather than anywhere else.
The new spore pack allows you to build either:
1) 1 Tyrannocyte (and the top half of 1 Mucolid)
or
2) 1 Sporocyst and 1 Mucolid
The key problem as far as I see it is that the Tyrannocyte and the Mucolid share most of their tentacles. This either means you assemble the Tyrannocyte without the tentacles or we harvest the tentacles from somewhere else.
In completely unrelated news, the Zoanthrope/Venomthrope triple pack just happens to come with 12 decent sized 'spare' tentacles if you build them as Zoanthropes...
2014/11/10 08:10:20
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Knight Tactica p.177)
I'm thinking I may just build mine without the tentacles, but I worry that some of the core pieces of the Mucolid migjt also be used in constructing the pod. My other concern would be that the Venomthrope tentacles wouldn't be sturdy enough for the pod, as that thing is a top heavy mess as is. The epitome of a model that looks good but really has transportation/game use issues. That and the whip that the forge world Khorne daemon lord has....I mean, what were they thinking??? It could be made out of metal and still wouldn't be durable
2014/11/10 08:52:15
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Knight Tactica p.177)
Tomorrow night I have a game arranged at my club against a guy wanting to try out his new Chaos Warhound. He has specifically asked for my "most overpowered list" to try it against, so I'm looking for ideas. He normally plays Nurgle/Khorne-heavy CSM+daemons, and we're playing 2k pts. I expect he'll run it as a Nurgle Warhound using the rules in IA13, leaving ~1200pts to fill.
The question is what I run against him. While the obvious choice is Skyblight, I don't own any Crones or Harpies and don't really like the idea of proxying them (I have enough models I rarely get to use). What I do have to pick from is:
Harridan
1 Flyrant
Hierophant
Both kinds of Hierodule
Tons of C-Fexes and T-Fexes
3 'Tyrannocytes'
7 Zoans
6 Hive Guard
3 Malanthropes
Pretty much anything else
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/11/10 08:52:49
2014/11/10 10:09:10
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Knight Tactica p.177)
xttz wrote: Tomorrow night I have a game arranged at my club against a guy wanting to try out his new Chaos Warhound. He has specifically asked for my "most overpowered list" to try it against, so I'm looking for ideas. He normally plays Nurgle/Khorne-heavy CSM+daemons, and we're playing 2k pts. I expect he'll run it as a Nurgle Warhound using the rules in IA13, leaving ~1200pts to fill.
The question is what I run against him. While the obvious choice is Skyblight, I don't own any Crones or Harpies and don't really like the idea of proxying them (I have enough models I rarely get to use). What I do have to pick from is:
Harridan
1 Flyrant
Hierophant
Both kinds of Hierodule
Tons of C-Fexes and T-Fexes
3 'Tyrannocytes'
7 Zoans
6 Hive Guard
3 Malanthropes
Pretty much anything else
Go Flyer heavy with the Harridan included. The Warhound is more than likely to tear ground forces apart, so you want the majority of it in the air.
I realize you don't have Hive Crones/Harpies but ideally, 2 Flyrants and a Harridan should suffice - maybe even three Flyrants. (why do you have one Flyrant?! Minimum two! )
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/11/10 10:10:54
YMDC = nightmare
2014/11/10 10:18:55
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Knight Tactica p.177)
If lords of War are involved, I'd agree with the Harridan. It's a very effective killer because few destroyer weapons can get at it.
By comparison, Bio-Titans are lethal bullies when engaging 'normal' opponents but struggle to take on anything their own size.
Tyrannocyte dropping close-range killers in amongst his lines is probably a good idea as he'll probably be loth to fire his turbolasers (if he has them) 'danger close' to his own expensive infantry.
I suspect Forgeworld will be doing a brisk trade in these things over the next few months!
Right; further on the thoughts for a 'pure drop army'.
The most I seem able to fit in 1500 points is 5 monsters in Tyrannocytes.
3 Mucolid Spores seems a minimum to survive turn one, especially since they can't voluntarily go to ground and will be a lot harder to hide than ripper swarms. I'd rather have some lictors in play as well.
One idea for your dissection:
HQ:
Tervigon with Cluster Spines, Crushing Claws, Electroshock Grubs
Tervigon with Cluster Spines, Crushing Claws, Electroshock Grubs
Heavy Support
Toxicrene
Toxicrene
Toxicrene
Tyrannocyte
Tyrannocyte
Tyrannocyte
Tyrannocyte
Tyrannocyte
Fortifications:
Aegis Line with Comms Relay
I know the stompy bugs aren't as good as they could be. If the fighting force is going to be 5 monstrous creatures, I'm not sure what the ratio of different species should be.
Could even do a 'one of each' force - One each of Tervigon, Malaceptor, Tyrannofex, Toxicrene and Haruspex - not the most effective but I suspect visually quite impressive if you're trying for a Nidzilla army that's one step larger than the traditional wall of carnifex.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/11/10 11:05:58
Termagants expended for the Hive Mind: ~2835
2014/11/10 11:23:32
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Knight Tactica p.177)
If you want to keep the core of your list, I would recommend dropping the something and finding the points for giving the Tervigon a Trannocyte. I don't think the Toxicrene will survive by itself and will give you some forward synapse. Do you have any biovores? You are so close to running a Living Artillery Formation.
I actually tried getting a few, but no success.
Currently, my options for an extra tyrannocyte are dropping the horma's, dropping the warriors and giving the tervigon the miasma cannon, or dropping terma's to 11 and moving the tervi to HQ slot.
I'll mostlikely drop the terma's to 11 and keep them in the back and drop the tervi next to the toxi.
2014/11/10 12:49:48
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Knight Tactica p.177)
Frozocrone wrote:Go Flyer heavy with the Harridan included. The Warhound is more than likely to tear ground forces apart, so you want the majority of it in the air.
I realize you don't have Hive Crones/Harpies but ideally, 2 Flyrants and a Harridan should suffice - maybe even three Flyrants. (why do you have one Flyrant?! Minimum two! )
FMCs are a pain to transport, plus I only really play casual games, and generally prefer the ground-based Nidzilla approach - it's why I own 12 Carnifexes
I'm definitely not a WAAC player, and deliberately skipped having anything to do with Skyblight-based lists when it came out.
locarno24 wrote:Tyrannocyte dropping close-range killers in amongst his lines is probably a good idea as he'll probably be loth to fire his turbolasers (if he has them) 'danger close' to his own expensive infantry.
Yeah I do have a fair number of Zoans. I've played this guy a few times and he rarely brings much in the way of psychic support, so I should be able to brute-force past any denys.
The general idea is for the Zoans and devilgaunts to drop in and try to kill the biggest threats (hopefully catching the rear of the titan in the case of the former). Starting the Flyrant and Harridan on the board or not will depend on if I get first turn and which (strategic) warlord trait I roll.
This leaves the Malanthropes and some guants to start on the board out of sight as much as possible, and present too many targets with Shrouded to remove before reserves start to arrive. Then can then move around to grab objectives and/or pile into the enemy lines.
2014/11/10 12:56:54
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Knight Tactica p.177)
xttz wrote: Tomorrow night I have a game arranged at my club against a guy wanting to try out his new Chaos Warhound. He has specifically asked for my "most overpowered list" to try it against, so I'm looking for ideas. He normally plays Nurgle/Khorne-heavy CSM+daemons, and we're playing 2k pts. I expect he'll run it as a Nurgle Warhound using the rules in IA13, leaving ~1200pts to fill.
The question is what I run against him. While the obvious choice is Skyblight, I don't own any Crones or Harpies and don't really like the idea of proxying them (I have enough models I rarely get to use). What I do have to pick from is:
Harridan
1 Flyrant
Hierophant
Both kinds of Hierodule
Tons of C-Fexes and T-Fexes
3 'Tyrannocytes'
7 Zoans
6 Hive Guard
3 Malanthropes
Pretty much anything else
Go Flyer heavy with the Harridan included. The Warhound is more than likely to tear ground forces apart, so you want the majority of it in the air.
I realize you don't have Hive Crones/Harpies but ideally, 2 Flyrants and a Harridan should suffice - maybe even three Flyrants. (why do you have one Flyrant?! Minimum two! )
Three ideas present themselves:
1) The Harridan (fliers are awesome versus ground-pounder Titans with their ignorable large blasts and whatever other fliers you have
2) Massed Zoanthropes in your Tyrannocytes; gatling Warp Lances are able to deal considerable damage if you manage to get them off (bring Tyrants for extra batteries)
3) Hierophant with the Acid Blood biomorph. Rush this monstrosity forwards (surround with Malanthropes and try to keep one foot in some ruins for 2+ cover), assault his titan and then laugh madly as you rip it apart with a combination of GMC melee and horrendous splashback from your acid blood - this thing is the ultimate suicide assaulter and just about any enemy titan will die with it)
Other novel ideas include
4): The Tyrannofex Gunbeast formation from the Valedor Apocalypse book (gives them twin-linked/tank hunter) which can make Rupture Cannons surprisingly viable, and with T6/6W/2+ and the ability to spread out a bit they are tougher to get rid of than you think
5) Haywire spam from Tyrants and Tyrannocyte-carried Tervigons/Tyrannofexes (you could even deep-strike your Tervigons, Haywire him, spawn a Termagant screen and give them Crushing Claws for a run assault the following turn)
2014/11/10 13:35:03
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Knight Tactica p.177)
beardman3000 wrote: so what was the ruling on instinctive fire and why? do all weapons fire, and can it shoot "through" itself
All weapons fire, shoots through itself at the enemy unit closest to its base. Instinctive Fire permits you to fire all five weapons, monstrous creatures measure range from the base.
Wilson wrote: So if we had to make a top 5 units list to go in a tyranocyte- what would go where?
5. 3 Zoanthropes (with Neurothrope maybe?)
4. Tyrannofex with Electroshock Grubs
3. Termagants with Devourers
2. Dimachaeron
1. Carnifex with Devourers
The violet text is my take on it personally. I will be skipping the Dimachaeron because I'm just personally not a fan of it, but in a Pod I will recognize it as a very viable choice. For me, my Pods will be Carnifex and Tyrannofex.
2014/11/10 14:29:16
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Knight Tactica p.177)
In no particular order, I'd say some good candidates would probably be:
- Dimachaeron (needs no explanation I reckon)
- Toxicrene (doesn't have the durability to walk across the board, but if you can pod it close to some ruins for a 2+ cover save to whether that turn of shooting?)
- Devourer 'gants (messes with most infantry and vehicle rear armour)
- Tyrannofex with Acid Spray and thorax swarm ('deal with me' kind of unit to drop in someone's back field)
- Zoanthrope brood (get close enough for some warp lance action)
I just got the Exocrine kit. How would I go about magnetizing it?
Where do I get WH40k magnets?
And most of all, should I bother? I like the Haruspex, but will it be viable with Tyrannocites?
In addition, how do I deal with a PaladinStar? The frigging things never die thanks to 2 wounds, 2+ Sv, 5+ Invul, 5+ FNP, and IWND.
Unit comp is 1 Daemonhammer, 1 Halbred, Nemesis Banner, Psycannon, Apothecary, and Terminator Libby for invis/VoD
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/11/10 14:37:06
Peregrine - If you like the army buy it, and don't worry about what one random person on the internet thinks.
2014/11/10 14:39:33
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Knight Tactica p.177)
5 - Toxicrene - as noted, pod it down into cover then charge next turn. Great building clearance.
4 - Tyrannofex with acid spray and dessicator larvae. I know electroshock grubs are better general-purpose but I don't want to waste the awesome acid spray.
3 - Hive Guard with Shock Cannons
2 - Dakkafex - Because
1 - Tervigon with Crushing Claws and Electroshock Grubs - for pretty much the reason XYPTC suggests
Termagants expended for the Hive Mind: ~2835
2014/11/10 14:50:17
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Knight Tactica p.177)
In m opinion? These units are probably the best things to spud in.
5. Warriors- Synapse, Shadows, Objective Secured, and guns. Can also be kitted out with a decent CC loadouts if that's your thing.
4. Dimachaeron- Giant CC monster. Won't make an immediate impact on the board, but his assault capability may make up for it.
3. Termagants- Objective secured and a high number of low strength shots. Good for clearing out infantry or putting a few glances on a transport.
2. Tervigon- Synapse, Shadows, and a Psyker.Can throw out a template or two(Miasma Cannon), and/or a couple shots/Large Blast. Can be Objective Secured. Can instantly drop more units in the backfield, effectively giving it a cover save/assault deterrent.
1. Carnifex- 12 Twinlinked Str 6 shots right where you want them, and tank-crushing assault power to boot. Can be kitted out for all melee if that's your thing.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Verviedi wrote: I just got the Exocrine kit. How would I go about magnetizing it?
Where do I get WH40k magnets?
And most of all, should I bother? I like the Haruspex, but will it be viable with Tyrannocites?
Hobby Stores or amazon. Sometimes even RadioShack. You need to get small Rare Earth magnets. I always think it's good to magnetize- the next codex/edition may change some things around and make a subpar unit competitive again.
In addition, how do I deal with a PaladinStar? The frigging things never die thanks to 2 wounds, 2+ Sv, 5+ Invul, 5+ FNP, and IWND.
Unit comp is 1 Daemonhammer, 1 Halbred, Nemesis Banner, Psycannon, Apothecary, and Terminator Libby for invis/VoD
Kill everything but. Try to kite It around or tarpit it.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/11/10 14:56:00
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Emperor's Spears 2500
Beastmen 10k
(building)
