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@luke1705

No Synapse for 420 (or what ever he said, thats alittle to many thats like 3k points of gants). Once you kill a few they will take a test, 1/2 the ones taking tests will fail, you get in melee, Kill them and then Stomp, if the Knight player is able to get 2 or 3 stomps in, he will place the other stomps into other units, killing just 1-3 is enough, b.c next turn you only need to kill 1 to force a test.

If your Playing it that gants dont need synapse, or your playing a 5k pt list that is different, But im also talking about forcing moral.

I tried the Haruspex. It ate a Dreadknight, and was shot to death afterward.

@ OrdoSean -
you had a plan for adamatine lances and wave serpent spam - care to share your plan?

Roll a lot of 6's...

Hey Sean, how many players primaried the Genestealers? Were the Mawlocs usually the first thing focused down?

Roll a lot of 6's...

Rend ... Rend ... Rend some more ...

At least tells us how you Deployed against Eldar then... at least give us that.

I guess it depends on exactly what they have. If its like you posted I probably hide the flyrants behind the bastion and some terrain... most good events have some big line of sight blockers that you can usually with the bastion use to block them off for at least a turn before the serpents can remobilize... if not probably just hide some junk and tough it out.

@ OrdoSean

What was your list?

Very impressed !!!

 Sinful Hero wrote:
@Amishprn86
If you're not going first, just reserve your Flyrants and zoom in from a table edge if you can't hide them behind terrain or a bastion.

Or just take a malanthrope for that sweet 2+ and yell "COME AT ME BRO"

 Leth wrote:

 Sinful Hero wrote:
@Amishprn86
If you're not going first, just reserve your Flyrants and zoom in from a table edge if you can't hide them behind terrain or a bastion.

Or just take a malanthrope for that sweet 2+ and yell "COME AT ME BRO"

He didnt have one, i was talking about his winning list.

 Dozer Blades wrote:
@ OrdoSean

What was your list?

Very impressed !!!

Not as impressed as you're going to be when you see his list:

He didn't get matched against Eldar or Adamantine Lance which helped I imagine

 SHUPPET wrote:
He didn't get matched against Eldar or Adamantine Lance which helped I imagine

Really? wow was there not many of those players there? Yeah I bet that helped alot.

He said he was prepared for them though.

I'm curious about the spore mines and how they were used myself.

This is how I would take on serpent-spam and Adlance knights with Sean's list.


Against Mechdar:

1. Null deployment. Deploy minimally. Hide whatever gets deployed. Give him (mechdar opponent) no target if possible. I would prefer to go 2nd. Only infiltrate the units that can hide. Outflank stealers, or possibly infiltrate them if there is a large BLOS terrain somewhere in the middle. You want to force him to move his forces around the terrain and away from his board edge.

2. When lictors come in, put them in rear arc of the serpents. Put at least 2 per serpent. Force him to jink by shooting in rear armor. Use Comms to keep mawlocs off the table.

3. When he turns his serpents around to shoot at the lictors, now he's exposed his rear armor to to your flyrants devourers. If he doesn't, then you've got a good chance of having at least 1 lictor make it into combat and you stand a decent chance of doing damage to it in assault.

4. If he disembarks his troops to take out your lictor, then now you've got a target for your mawlocs. Next turn, if one of your lictors survive, your mawloc will basically auto-kill his troops when it comes up using the lictor as the homing beacon.

5. If you infiltrated your stealers, then on T2 when you lictors come in, now is the time play aggressively with those stealers. Now he's got to deal with lictors, genestealers and flyrants all at once. Talk about Maximum Threat Overload!

6. Grab secondary objective points while he is busy fighting off your army. He may be killing your units, but you are accumulating more points every turn than he is with rippers, genestealers, lictors and even the mawlocs.

7. Forcing him to jink is vital. That makes your units much more survivable and much harder to kill. 4 S6 shots to the rear from 2 lictors should be enough to force him to jink. As for troops disembarking, most mechdar players in tournament bring units of 5 dire avengers. Assuming you have your lictor in cover for 4+ cover, 5 dires, 10 shots, 7 hits, 3.5 wounds, 2W get through. That's not enough to kill the lictor. Now you can assault his unit next turn or assault the serpent.


It's not easy, but the shrewd general can definitely win against mechdar (and Sean, who is a GT winner himself even before this tournament, is definitely a very good general). The most important thing is that you've got the element of surprise. Most opponents won't know how to play against this list nor will they realize just how survivable it actually is. You have the knowledge. Your opponent doesn't. Therefore, you've actually got the advantage in most matchups.


Against Adlance Knights:

1. Positioning, positioning, positioning. You don't need to even kill 1 knight to beat an Adlance army. You can beat them through positioning and by controlling the Movement phase.

2. Screening and Movement blockers. The most important tactic against the knights is to impede their movement and to prevent them from advancing. Dump lictors in front of them 1 at a time. Force him to go around (and thus, to split up). Use your flyrants as movement blockers as well. You've got a huge numbers advantage against his knights. USE IT!

3. Kill off his support units. Flyrants and mawlocs can usually do that quite easily. Kill off his support units and watch him play with frustration as he can't even get past your lictors.

4. If he splits up his knights to go around your movement blockers, that is the perfect time to take them on with your flyrants (if you lack better targets). Position 1 in each flank and then dakka the crap out of him. You probably won't kill him right away, but you will finish him off over time.

5. The "bait". Only do this if the knight is already damaged (maybe with 3HP or less). Bait a knight by landing a flyrant in terrain. Shoot the crap out of him and then let him charge you next turn. Then watch him eat D3 haywire electroshock grubs with your Overwatch and then Smash him to death. A word of caution though - the more experienced players probably won't fall for it.

6. If there are Secondary objectives, play to the Secondaries. While he is busy just trying to get out of his backfield, you should be grabbing objective points each and every turn. Sure, he'll end up killing a lot of lictors and probably mawlocs, but he should be way down in points because he can't reach the objectives.


Hope that helps.





Automatically Appended Next Post:

 xttz wrote:

 xttz wrote:
Tomorrow night I have a game arranged at my club against a guy wanting to try out his new Chaos Warhound. He has specifically asked for my "most overpowered list" to try it against, so I'm looking for ideas. He normally plays Nurgle/Khorne-heavy CSM+daemons, and we're playing 2k pts. I expect he'll run it as a Nurgle Warhound using the rules in IA13, leaving ~1200pts to fill.

The question is what I run against him. While the obvious choice is Skyblight, I don't own any Crones or Harpies and don't really like the idea of proxying them (I have enough models I rarely get to use). What I do have to pick from is:
...
...

I just got home from this game, and the result is a very resounding crushing Tyranid victory~

My opponent was happy for me to use the new rules from WD (including the upcoming one), so for my list I went with:
Harridan, Flyrant, Malanthrope, vanilla gaunts, devilguants in a pod, 3 shockcannon hive guard in a pod, and 6 zoans in a pod.

The opposing army consisted of:
Warhound with dual turbo-lasers, a large screen of cultists, 10 marines, Sicarian, Predator, Forgefiend and a Storm Eagle.

My supporting psychic power rolls were mediocre, but the Battle-Forged re-roll got me Strategic Genius, letting me re-roll reserves which was fantastic for this list.

I got first turn, and only moved the Flyrant and Harridan into the centre of the field while the Malanthrope and gaunts stopped back on an objective. The Flyrant was able to strip both shields off the Titan, allowing the Harridan to follow up by knocking off 2 hull points. On his turn he responded by... killing one termagant with the titan, as most were out of LoS and it couldn't shoot the flyers. His supporting army didn't fare much better, failing to land an unsaved wound on either creature sitting right in front of them.

Now comes turn two, and I roll for reserves. Devilgaunts on, Hive Guard on, Zoanthropes... roll a 1. But thanks to the warlord trait that is quickly fixed, and all 3 pods land around his army while my flyers advance nearby. I roll a decent amount of warp charge, and throw 6 dice into Warp Blast aimed squarely at the Titan. It succeeds, but four for the six shots miss. The fifth takes out a newly repaired void shield, while the final hit lands perfectly, scoring Explodes and knocking off 3 HP.
The Hive Guard quickly follow up with Haywire attacks, stripping a further 3HP with ease. With a single hullpoint remaining the Harridan fires wildly from point blank range. Despite somehow missing most of its shots, one glance does get through. BOOM - Titan down. The explosion rips through the Cultist screen, and damages all three Chaos vehicles nearby. The Flyrant finishes off the Forgefiend with a volley of glancing hits, and the devilguants further pour salt into the wound by wiping out the marines in a single volley, and taking their objective.

With a smoking crater where his army used to be, all my opponent can do is damage control. The Storm Eagle arrives and along with the surviving vehicles, pour all of their fire into the Zoanthropes in revenge. After a string of solid warp field saves only two of them drop to the ground. The remaining cultists desperately try to tie up the Hive Guard in combat, inflicting a wound but losing one of their number in return.

Turn 3 was simply a case of cleaning up. The Harridan really showed what you can do with S10 skyfire, sending the Storm Eagle tumbling off the table. The Flyrant finishes off the Predator from behind, and the Zoans repeat their previous performance to only land a single penetrating hit on the Sicarian. However one hit was enough to leave it a smoking wreck. This time the Hive Guard inflict enough damage to cause the cultists to flee, and they leave the board with nothing but a dead Princeps for the Malanthrope to consume...

With FMC Tyranids, Imperial Titans ain't no thing but a chicken wing.

Congrats, and well fought!

OrdoSean wrote:
I guess it depends on exactly what they have. If its like you posted I probably hide the flyrants behind the bastion and some terrain... most good events have some big line of sight blockers that you can usually with the bastion use to block them off for at least a turn before the serpents can remobilize... if not probably just hide some junk and tough it out.

Were you generally picking the progressive scoring primaries?

Also why on earth did your tau opponent line up for your Mawlocs?

How did the game go against space wolves and bikes?

ETA. WTF was up with the spore mines? Did they accomplish anything? Eat some overwatch for your lictors? Why not just more rippers or something?

Ok, this is my 3rd game running the Deathleaper Assassin Brood and also my first time trying out the Tyrannocyte. My opponent today, Chris, is just getting back into the game after a brief hiatus. He's played a number of times with his Daemons and have been changing it up, trying different units and such. We actually played recently before. It was his first introduction to my Dimachaeron and he learned to fear it as it single-handedly took out over 1000-pts of his army. He's learned since how to deal with it with a little advice from me - get Baleswords for your Nurgle monsters!

This will also be my 1st match against a Daemon Summoning army. Well, he's not running a pure Summoning army, but he can definitely summon a lot of stuff if he wanted, thanks to 4 Level 3 psykers on his list. However, he is also playing a somewhat themed list running mainly Nurgle and Slaanesh units. I, on the other hand, am trying out the Deathleaper Assassin Brood formation. It's not a super-competitive Tyranid build, but I'm finding it to be super-fun because it really is a challenging army to play. Unlike some of my more competitive armies, this army really forces you to play more strategically, which in turn will help you more to become a better player. It's not easy, but I'm finding that winning with it oftentimes is much more rewarding to me than winning with my more hardcore, competitive lists.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------


1850 Hive Fleet Pandora with Deathleaper Assassin Brood + Tyrannocyte vs Chaos Daemons


1850 Deathleaper Assassin's Brood Tyranids

Flyrant - 2x TL-Brainleech Devourers, Egrubs
Flyrant - 2x TL-Brainleech Devourers, Egrubs

Malanthrope

3x Rippers - Deepstrike
3x Rippers - Deepstrike

Dimachaeron

Mawloc
Mawloc
Mawloc
Tyrannocyte - 5x Barbed Stranglers

Bastion - Comms Relay

Deathleaper Assassin's Brood Formation:

Deathleaper

Lictor
Lictor
Lictor
Lictor
Lictor



1850 Nurgle Daemons w/Slaanesh Allies

This is just an approximation of his list. I might have mixed up some of his gifts.


Greater Unclean One - Level 3 Psyker, 2x Greater Gifts - Balesword, 4+ FNP, Endurance, Iron Arm, shooty powers
Greater Unclean One - Level 3 Psyker, 2x Greater Gifts - Balesword, 4+ FNP, Warp Speed, shooty powers

3x Nurglings
10x Plaguebearers

Daemon Prince - Level 3 Psyker, 3+, Wings, Nurgle, 2x Greater Gifts - Balesword, Re-roll Invuln's, Incursion, Summoning, shooty powers
Soulgrinder - Nurgle, Phlegm

Aegis Defense Line - Quad-guns

Daemon Allies:

Keeper of Secrets - Level 3 Psyker, 2x Greater Gifts - 3+, Lash of Despair, Summoning, other powers

10x Daemonettes

Soulgrinder - Slaanesh, Torrent


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Missions:


Primary Objectives: Big Guns, 4-pts


Secondary Objectives: Modified Maelstrom, 3-pts

1. Hold Your Objective 1.
2. Hold Your Objective 2.
3. Hold Your Opponent's Objective 1.
4. Hold Your Opponent's Objective 2.
5. Destroy an enemy unit.
6. Destroy an enemy unit.


Tertiary Objectives: First Blood, Linebreaker, Slay the Warlord, 1-pt each


Deployment: Vanguard Strike


1st Turn: Daemons


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------


PRE-GAME ANALYSIS:

Daemon Summoning may be a problem. If he rolls well for his Summoning powers, then I just may be in trouble. He especially got lucky with Incursion, which he can use to summon some highly mobile units to complement his otherwise rather slow army. I will also potentially have problems against his army in close combat. Unlike last game, where my Dimachaeron just walked through his army without a care in the world, this game is going to be much different. I can't fight his MC's directly. He's got too much insta-killing offense. I need to park my dimachaeron on an objective in cover and then let his MC's charge me. I should then be able to take out all but the GUO with Endurance.

How I plan to beat my opponent is in the Movement Phase. I plan to beat him with my philosophy of Positional Dominance. Basically, I need to keep his main forces "distracted" by throwing waves and waves of units at him and then take the objectives with my lictors and rippers while he is busy dealing with them. Now this is easier said than done, as he can summon daemons to take objectives and then I am forced to deal with them with single lictors, mawlocs and rippers (in other words, my not-so-offensive units). If he falls for my "trap", then I think that I can take this. However, if he plays his army more aggressively, then I think I am going to have a hard time against his army, especially if summoning is going his way.

In this game, I'm not sure how big of a role my flyrants will play. I am going to have problems taking out his T7 MC's in ruins for 2+ cover (and 4+ FNP!) or his FMC with 2+ jink saves. Even his troops should be getting 2+ cover if he plays them correctly. At least I don't have much to fear with his shooting, or rather, lack of....or do I?


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------


You can read the rest of my report here (to be completed in a couple of days):


1850 Hive Fleet Pandora with Deathleaper Assassin Brood + Tyrannocyte vs Chaos Daemons

tag8833 wrote:

Also why on earth did your tau opponent line up for your Mawlocs?

Because he no doubt started playing Tau when they got OP.

There's something to be said for learning the game with a challenging army compared to learning the game with easy-mode army.

When it comes time to adapt strategy they really only know how to play one way.

One unit I haven't seen mentioned in all these new release hype and how it has possibly improved them is Ravenors?

Does mass reserve, turn 2 M.T.O help them? I can see a couple of units of these things arriving at the same time as a couple of pods of killy things (Fexes, Dimas etc) with Mawlocs popping up as well? What do you guys think?

Maybe something like this

Flyrant
Flyrant

Lictor
Lictor
Malonthrope

DS Rippers
DS Rippers
Genestealers
Genestealers
Genestealers

3 xRavenors
3 x Ravenors
Dimachaeron (in a Pod)

Mawloc
Mawloc


Bastion, comms relay, void shield (had 25 points to spare)

With upgrades that comes to 1850 points

Eldercaveman wrote:
One unit I haven't seen mentioned in all these new release hype and how it has possibly improved them is Ravenors?

Does mass reserve, turn 2 M.T.O help them? I can see a couple of units of these things arriving at the same time as a couple of pods of killy things (Fexes, Dimas etc) with Mawlocs popping up as well? What do you guys think?

Maybe something like this

Flyrant
Flyrant

Lictor
Lictor
Malonthrope

DS Rippers
DS Rippers
Genestealers
Genestealers
Genestealers

3 xRavenors
3 x Ravenors
Dimachaeron (in a Pod)

Mawloc
Mawloc


Bastion, comms relay, void shield (had 25 points to spare)

With upgrades that comes to 1850 points

Are Lictors finally a thing? The coolest model in the fluff and aesthetically is actually seeing some use? Yessssss!

I understand Lictors were just famously used to great effect, but they remain what they are and its certainly not worth losing a Tyrant over (to me).

 Zande4 wrote:

Eldercaveman wrote:
One unit I haven't seen mentioned in all these new release hype and how it has possibly improved them is Ravenors?

Does mass reserve, turn 2 M.T.O help them? I can see a couple of units of these things arriving at the same time as a couple of pods of killy things (Fexes, Dimas etc) with Mawlocs popping up as well? What do you guys think?

Maybe something like this

Flyrant
Flyrant

Lictor
Lictor
Malonthrope

DS Rippers
DS Rippers
Genestealers
Genestealers
Genestealers

3 xRavenors
3 x Ravenors
Dimachaeron (in a Pod)

Mawloc
Mawloc


Bastion, comms relay, void shield (had 25 points to spare)

With upgrades that comes to 1850 points

Are Lictors finally a thing? The coolest model in the fluff and aesthetically is actually seeing some use? Yessssss!

In some ways, yes. Although I would suggest if you do want lictors you go the route of Deathleapers assassin brood for mass while not using up any Elite slots.

6 precision deep striking multi wounded infantry models coupled together with podding Dakkafex' and Dimachaerons and sprouting up Mawlocs could be very a effective tactic. Just hope that they take the lictor bait and be sure to have some sort of reserve booster i.e coms relay.

Side note:
Deep strike lictors into ruins for a 3+ cover save thanks to stealth. avoid SMS.
Try and keep the mawlocs in reserve until T3 to make use of the lictors pheromone trail.
Couple Deathleapers it's after me! with Shadows, the formation special rule AND Neurothropes spirit leach and you should have a field day VS Cent bombs.

Is their special rule just Preferred enemy (characters/IC)? I forget.

 Iechine wrote:
Is their special rule just Preferred enemy (characters/IC)? I forget.

Yes and -1 LD within 12 of any lictor.

tag8833 wrote:
Were you generally picking the progressive scoring primaries?

Also why on earth did your tau opponent line up for your Mawlocs?

How did the game go against space wolves and bikes?

ETA. WTF was up with the spore mines? Did they accomplish anything? Eat some overwatch for your lictors? Why not just more rippers or something?

I generally did not choose the progressive missions, aside from table quarters.

I dont know why the tau player lined up, it was hammer and anvil and he had been pushing hard to get to the few units I had lined on my board edge to kill them. So I think he got caught up trying to deny me my comms relay and when one or two models lived he got caught with his pants down.

The game against space wolves and bikes was the only close one I had. Came down to tiebreakers with us both beat up. PLayer is very good and a friend so he came at least prepared to understand.

OrdoSean wrote:

tag8833 wrote:
Were you generally picking the progressive scoring primaries?

Also why on earth did your tau opponent line up for your Mawlocs?

How did the game go against space wolves and bikes?

ETA. WTF was up with the spore mines? Did they accomplish anything? Eat some overwatch for your lictors? Why not just more rippers or something?

I generally did not choose the progressive missions, aside from table quarters.

I dont know why the tau player lined up, it was hammer and anvil and he had been pushing hard to get to the few units I had lined on my board edge to kill them. So I think he got caught up trying to deny me my comms relay and when one or two models lived he got caught with his pants down.

The game against space wolves and bikes was the only close one I had. Came down to tiebreakers with us both beat up. PLayer is very good and a friend so he came at least prepared to understand.

Would you be interested in giving a unit by unit breakdown of why you chose it and how you used it? I think everyone really wants to pick your brain over this list since it's so different from the conventional wisdom that's been established here in this thread. It might be a lot of work, but I'm sure quite a few people would appreciate it.

Its funny to me how some folks just don't get a list or expect a certain list to be blown off the table by some top tier lists.

It's not that hard to understand how the list would work.
It's well rounded, saturated in threats which pretty much enter play at the same time with the Mawlocs having awesome synergy with 8 Lictors + Death Leaper.

Sean clearly tested his list against top tier and if he felt he couldn't stand up to those matchups he wouldn't have taken this list.

I'm surprised that people like Sean share his experiences and information considering the backlash and disbelief received by some people.
C'mon guys, this is a genius list and a superb victory for the Nids.

Lets all rejoice!

I know, it's good to see something other than lists with Flyrants, carnifexes, and Dimachaerons do well. I just like reading people's explanations.

-such as jy2's explanation of how he would run that particular list. That's the kind of things I enjoy reading on dakkadakka.

 L0rdF1end wrote:
Its funny to me how some folks just don't get a list or expect a certain list to be blown off the table by some top tier lists.

It's not that hard to understand how the list would work.
It's well rounded, saturated in threats which pretty much enter play at the same time with the Mawlocs having awesome synergy with 8 Lictors + Death Leaper.

Sean clearly tested his list against top tier and if he felt he couldn't stand up to those matchups he wouldn't have taken this list.

I'm surprised that people like Sean share his experiences and information considering the backlash and disbelief received by some people.
C'mon guys, this is a genius list and a superb victory for the Nids.

Lets all rejoice!

What? There is no backlash or disbelief. All I've seen is congratulations. People asking him for advice, and others asking for clarifications, nobody seems to be doing anything but trying to build their own strategy and try absorb something a unconventional, or pat him on the back. Why you feel the need to be rude to people wondering this is beyond me, and elitist as hell, on some "oh you guys are incapable of understanding how this works at a top tier, I'm surprised he is sharing his experiences with you guys, so stop trying to discuss with him".

Also, it's a dice game, practically any list can achieve anything with the right amount of luck. Stop with the elitist crap, if you can explain how the list is so "genius" why don't you try answering some of the questions people are asking. The guy got a good result with less popular units, it doesn't change the facts behind the units themselves, and if you think it does based on this alone, I'd recommend forging your own opinions on units rather than blindly assuming other people know better based off a good result. Because it's such a small sample.