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I've been seeing a lot of comments since the new Tyranid codex has been introduced saying that the Swarmlord is now terrible. I'd like to discuss this a bit, because I honestly think he deserves a second look. His role in the new codex has changed a bit, but I think he might be a viable choice for some competitive lists.

First of all, lets talk about what the Swarmlord gained and lost from the last codex. He no longer forces enemies to re-roll invulnerable saves, which makes him a little less threatening in combat. He also no longer gives a re-roll to determining the entry of outflanking units. He now costs 5 points more. Most importantly, as some would say, he lost access to Biomancy (aka a 1/3 of getting Iron Arm). However, in exchange he has gained a level of psychic mastery and has exchanged his ability to hand out the worthless Acute Senses for the ability to hand out Monster Hunter. He has also gained a point of BS, which will be irrelevant most of the time.

Previously, the Swarmlord was used mainly as a deathstar/anti-deathstar due to his incredible combat potential when given Iron Arm or Warp Speed. He is still quite powerful in assault, with 6 WS9, S6 AP2 attacks on the charge at I6 that cause ID. He can grant Preferred Enemy, Furious Charge or Monster Hunter to himself as well, which can boost his combat potential even further. However, I believe that the true value of the Swarmlord lies in what he can do for the rest of your army.

The USR's mentioned previously that the Swarmlord can grant to himself can also be handed out to a friendly unit within 18" instead. Preferred Enemy is particularly useful to boost the ranged attacks of our mostly BS3 shooters or melee now that scything talons no longer provide rerolls. However, Monster Hunter is also an excellent choice when facing some of the more popular armies out there, including Tau (Riptides), Eldar (Wraithknights) or Daemons.

Most importantly, the Swarmlord now brings along three Tyranid psychic powers and 3 warp charges to use per turn. He can put nearly any of these powers to excellent use. Plus, thanks to ML3, you have a 50% chance of getting any one of these powers in a given game. Catalyst provides FnP not only to the Swarmlord and his guards, but another unit within 12" as well. Paroxysm and The Horror both have a range of 24" and can help deliver your swarm across the board. How does forcing Broadsides to take a pinning check at LD 6 sound? Or getting a good roll and reducing that Riptide's BS to 0 for a turn? Onslaught is good for any MC with a ranged weapon both for threat range of the ranged attack itself and to get the MC closer to melee. Warp Blast gives the Swarmlord a way to deal some direct damage before closing the distance. Only Psychic Scream is lackluster with the Swarmlord due to its short range. Swapping this power out for Dominion to grant a whopping 24" synapse bubble may be preferable, especially with synapse being so important now.

He is also our most durable warlord choice/synapse provider when given a retinue of Tyrant Guard (which you always should do if you're going to take him).

In short, while the Swarmlord lost the bit that made him over the top in melee from his previous incarnation, he is still a worthy addition to a competitive Tyranid force due to his excellent synapse range, melee power and durability combined with his ability to sling out up to 4 buffs/debuffs per turn.

I think the old Swarmlord could generate 4 psychic powers, and thus had a 2/3 chance of getting Iron Arm.

He can now be the synapse core of your army, but he really needs a full unit of guards to survive.

Corollax wrote:
I think the old Swarmlord could generate 4 psychic powers, and thus had a 2/3 chance of getting Iron Arm.

Correct. He had endurance OR Iron Arm virtually every game with access to biomancy.

Look, it's like this;

The Swarmlord was a second rate choice when in the 5th edition codex compared to flyrants. Walking across the field just....doesn't work.
Now, he's undeniably worse, and flyrants are roughly as good as they were (cheaper, BS4 and ML2, but lost biomancy)
Therefore, the swarmlord stacks up even worse.

Here's how it breaks down;
+1 attack for paired melee weapons....sweet.
Lost the reroll on invulnerable saves....really going to hurt him in his "eat the biggest thing on the table" role.
Warlord trait of +6" synapse.....but, he already HAD that AND he got a warlord trait on top of that! So this is a straight up nerf, even though most warlord traits in the rulebook largely have no impact on the game.
Swarm leader is basically the same, but monster hunter instead of acute sense is a minor situational upgrade.
Alien Cunning lost the reroll to which flank something comes in via outflank. Technically a nerf, but you'd be a fool to outflank something, so it won't come up much.
He's ML3 now instead of 2! Awesome upgrade right?! NOPE. He has less powers to choose from now, since he had 4 and now has 3. I'd call that a side grade personally thanks to how random the psychic disciplines are in terms of good/bad powers
Lost access to biomancy. That's just crippling. This ALONE is enough to ruin him. Biomancy was basically the only thing keeping the nid codex afloat in 6th edition, and now it's gone with crap to replace it.

I mean, you can argue that he's roughly as good as he was before (I'd say he's a non-trivial amount worse personally) but he went UP ~2% in points in a codex where every other monstrous creature went DOWN 10-25%, which means that GW thinks that the swarmlord in the 5th edition book was overpowered and needed a nerf, which is just crazy talk. He should not be 1 point more than 240 in his current state, and I still wouldn't take him over a winged tyrant.

435 points is a lot for a setup like that. With IA he could take one guard and both be t/s 9. His 18" synapse didn't take up his Warlord trait you could re-roll outflank. Add the re rolls to passed invul being lost and he is just not worth it any longer.

 Carnage43 wrote:

He's ML3 now instead of 2! Awesome upgrade right?! NOPE. He has less powers to choose from now, since he had 4 and now has 3. I'd call that a side grade personally thanks to how random the psychic disciplines are in terms of good/bad powers
Lost access to biomancy. That's just crippling. This ALONE is enough to ruin him. Biomancy was basically the only thing keeping the nid codex afloat in 6th edition, and now it's gone with crap to replace it.

This is exactly what I was talking about. Everyone is saying this about the Swarmlord because they want his role to be the same as it was before - to be able to point him at the toughest thing on the table and be sure he could take it out. That's no longer his role, (though he can still go toe-to-toe with anything) but he has a new role now that he is very good at. He is our best hope for not giving away the warlord point in every game, the most reliable way to provide synapse, provides a free, useful buff with no psychic test every turn, and is the best source of psychic powers in the codex. He does all this while also remaining the most potent melee machine in the book. You're writing him off too soon.

The argument that walking across the board doesn't work also falls flat with the new dex. Without spore pods, we now have no other option for the vast majority of our MC's. You could argue that the way forward is flying tyrants and maxing Crones (or maybe Harpies), but I do not believe that Crones and Harpies output enough damage to be the main element of a list.

Here's the list I plan on building. I think the Hausperex is similarly better than people think, especially with toxin sacs, but I will not hesitate to drop him for some other MC if he does not prove to be as effective as I had hoped.

The Swarmlord - 285
- Tyrant Guard x2 w/ TS - 106
Flyrant w/ dual Brainleech - 230

Termagants x30
Tervigon - 195

Venomthropes x2 - 90
Hausperex w/ TS, AG - 185

Gargoyles x19 - 114
Hive Crone - 155

Exocrine - 170
Trygon w/ TS - 200

TOTAL - 1850

I agree with you on the Swarmlord. Yes he got nerfed. But he brings something to the new book that nothing else does. Our upgrades got more expensive, making his Swarm Leader ability more valuable. Monster Hunter is a nice upgrade that lets swarmy or the little Gants deal with monsters on the table nicely, while Preferred Enemy and Furious Charge have always had their awesome uses.

Also, synapse is going to rule this new Codex, and having the +6" synapse ain't too bad. I almost would rather be stuck with that warlord trait than risk rolling up carnivorous forests. Granted, you miss out on the opportunity to roll up free FnP, but his Warlord trait is very nice for our army. I also think squeezing in as many possible Psychic rolls into our army is going to be really important. That ML3 shouldn't be discounted.

So I'd like to try and make Swarmy work. The real problem I see with him, is he prevents us taking two Flyrants. He also requires a significant points investment to keep him alive. I think that has its own advantages though, as once our Synapse starts dieing things just fall apart. Having a Warlord that can soak up some wounds is nice.

Just some of my thoughts on Swarmy so far.

AAAAAAnnnnnnd he dies from an ID shot/attack, like any good bug.

 Slayer le boucher wrote:
AAAAAAnnnnnnd he dies from an ID shot/attack, like any good bug.

He's just as vunerable to ID as any other thing in the game but still has his 4+ Invuln. Eternal Warrior is the rare unicorn of 6E.

Yeah but his invul is close combat, these days most people wont even bother to face him in cc. He will get large blast ap2'd to death long before he meets cc unless you sink the points for the hive guard. I love swarmlord to death, i've spent a lot of time modeling and painting one thats almost done, but it's at the point where i think he wont see the table very often if at all. Id rather spend the points on another dakka flyer.

I agree that his role is going to have to change and that he is a little less point and click than he used to be. My concern is that he has a huuuge target on his head due to his reputation. Some people will be aware he's been nerfed, but some will still not want to risk him getting anywhere near their lines. So by default he's going to attract a lot of fire.

The issue comes in his points cost. You simply can't take him without guards or he'll never make it anywhere. Which sucks for nearly 300 pts. Chuck in a few guard and he's in excess of 400 pts. This is a lot to invest for what he returns. Would two flyrants with 2 x tl devs be better? Almost certainly in most situations.

All that being said I do love the concept, the model and I'll probably still do it. But I know that he's just too big a points sink to be anything other than a bit of fun when I want to wheel out the model. I wish it was different but having nearly a third of my 1500pt (i could play higher but i rarely have the time) army on hq without the return that point level gets me elsewhere is too much.

Now the most important thing to be said.

Has his spot as toughest beatstick been beaten by skarbrand and Abbadon?

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
Now the most important thing to be said.

Has his spot as toughest beatstick been beaten by skarbrand and Abbadon?

He still causes ID, but he is going to die to Skarbrand since he doesn't strike first and has nothing to back him up or re-roll Invul saves.

Basically, Swarmy's back to his position from 5th ed - overcosted.

At 285 points without Biomancy he's a cruel joke at best and kick in the balls to all Nid players at worst. Did you guys notice that GW: Digital Editions took down their big 'nid post because of all the bad press it was getting?

He is beaten out by skarbrand, belakor, GUO , and a lucky BT at least in darmons codex. Hes of similar cost to a GUO and force multiplies i see him playing the same role without being as strong in CC durable to shooting or having psychic powers

The worst thing being, he shouldn't need to change rolls. He's supposed to be a badass, not a leader who hangs in cover providing nothing but support.

We already have Warriors abd Genestealers to hide and protect areas of the board because they're to scared to play.

I'll play him, but it'll be after i try Pyrovores though. Yes that's no typo either.

Couple things to you OP:
1. Paroxysm cant drop something to BS/WS0. It is a malediction, and as per the BRB cannot drop stats below 1.

2. His warlord trait is, in essence, a nerf. He used to have a default 18" synapse and, if your warlord, would get another trait. Now, he just gets the synapse.

Edited because wtf happened?

Used him in two games last night.

Game 1 I had him and 3 guard charge into the 880 point LOW from Demons, Swarmlord had 2 chances to kill him (D3 wounds) but he kept making his 3++. The no re-rolls hurts. Swarmy eventually did die but he held him up for 3 rounds of combat, and did 6 wounds.

Game 2, he used Warp Lance to Insta-kill a 300 point DP, and then took on GUO.

He killed the GUO after 2 turns.

 streamdragon wrote:
Couple things to you OP:
1. Paroxysm cant drop something to BS/WS0. It is a malediction, and as per the BRB cannot drop stats below 1.

2. His warlord trait is, in essence, a nerf. He used to have a default 18" synapse and, if your warlord, would get another trait. Now, he just gets the synapse.

Edited because wtf happened?

1. You're right, my mistake. I'm typically a BT player so I'm not used to psychic powers.

2. His synapse range is not a nerf. The fact that he can't take another warlord trait is. The synapse range is still very useful in this incarnation of the codex.

 eskimo wrote:
The worst thing being, he shouldn't need to change rolls. He's supposed to be a badass, not a leader who hangs in cover providing nothing but support.

We already have Warriors abd Genestealers to hide and protect areas of the board because they're to scared to play.

I'll play him, but it'll be after i try Pyrovores though. Yes that's no typo either.

Except..He is supposed to be a leader, not a badass, there's been many Hive Tyrants that have been incredibly badass (Such as the one that helped break Iyanden) and far stronger then he is.

Swarmlord isn't just supposed to be strong, he's a consciousnesses that's continually revived, watching, waiting, seeing and creating new strategies against harder to beat foes while being able to deal with things himself if need be.

Also, he is still a badass. Still the most potent melee unit in the book.

And... Swarmlord has lost his crown, now it's Abaddon, Skarbrand, and Be'lakor fighting for the best duelist in the game.

He is the only reserves manipulation the book has. This doesnt make him great but it might be a reason to take him.

24" Synapse is going to be extremely helpful with his walk across the board with tyrant guard style of awesomeness. I was thinking we might see more Hive tyrants with guard just walking for some easy 18" synapse. Dominion I feel will almost always be a must take for anyone that can take it.

The vibe of the new book is melee. bring the fight right to them, which is exactly how their fluff represents them. Dont fight against that urge. also dont be afraid to put objective markers father forwards when you can to make it easier to hold them and remain in synapse, or always make sure its inside area terrain with some gants lurking on it hopefully with stealth

I hope youre joking, melee got a huge nerf!

Scything talons losing rerolls really hurts trygons and melee fexes with their low ws.

Loss of spores means walking and getting shot more in a game where shooting was already way above melee.

Synapse nurf hits melee harder than any other type of nid, since as soon as they are out of synapse theres a 50-50 chance of killing yourself - so all opponent needs to do to counter a melee nid army is kill synapse and ignore the rest.

zacharia wrote:
Synapse nurf hits melee harder than any other type of nid, since as soon as they are out of synapse theres a 50-50 chance of killing yourself - so all opponent needs to do to counter a melee nid army is kill synapse and ignore the rest.

A hormagaunt only has a 12% of killing itself outside of synapse.

...and the whole book, Elites excluded, has access to fleet.

I played 2 games yesterday using the new codex, and the limited models i have. I will say the swamlord was a great asset to have in both games.

Every round he was able to get Catalyst off, which was a big help. Plus his 18 inch synaps range was a big help when i pushed up with my Flying Tyrant and Zanthrope.

The second game was aginst Grey knights, and between the Hive Tyrant and the Swarmlord having The Horror, i was able to keep 2 units of pinned basically the entire game, really helped to keep my 3 man Warrior squad on the Objective.

It's also worth noting that all of his attacks now cause instant death...back off Wraithknights...

 ductvader wrote:
It's also worth noting that all of his attacks now cause instant death...back off Wraithknights...

That was always a thing...

 ductvader wrote:
A hormagaunt only has a 12% of killing itself outside of synapse.

A unit of 20 Hormies will get ~10 wounds and save 1-2 of them.
That's 8-9 models gone almost 60% of the time outside Synapse.

In other words, a Hormagaunt unit will eat about half of itself to one check. Oh, and then leadership test because you didn't actually need that unit, did you?